[16:29] Cipher i dont have a problem with negative gunners if the players using them are actively playing. I would like them to be probabyl more rare than they are now, but the only problem with soldiers skills at all has been that they could never be lost, so you have 6 years of cumulative skill 0 and better gunners sitting around doing nothing [16:30] well what is the point of trying to smooth out terrian if your guys have to hit on a 8 and his guy has to hit on a 2 becaue he is like -5 gun [16:30] KOOLAID|AFK so then I ban a computer that nobody will ever use again [16:30] they will never miss [16:30] * Cambone|Town is now known as Cambone [16:30] WWS: when you say "active" do you actually mean "warring" ? [16:30] That's one less place for them to cause abuse from [16:30] It takes time [16:31] then you just go and buy a new lan card [16:31] Like any active firewall, you tweak it over time to get the low lifes out [16:31] Cipher you're not listening...WWS said they were going to make neg gunners less common [16:31] but not totally get rid of them [16:31] warring or able to readily defend, Gambit. If you have to actively defend your empire to stay big then you have to be active to be big [16:31] they're helpful in the right hands and you can still beat them if your attacking [16:31] why not just make pilots get no lower than 0 [16:32] if level 11 and level 13 empires have the same number of units, then the levl 12 and 13 empires will be that size because they are more skilled and more active than their counterparts [16:32] then they'rs no point in getting multis [16:32] cause thats gay cipher [16:32] Cipher theres nothign wrong with negative gunners [16:32] or pilots [16:32] negative gunners arent really the issue, its active players. I'm fine with active players having negative gunned units on the units that they actually use and succeed with [16:32] that is the system as it is working currently [16:33] people who say that is gay are the ones complaing that they always get nailed by artillery because their -5 gun [16:33] and? [16:33] harden up [16:33] and say that artillery should be taken out [16:33] its a war game [16:33] excaly [16:33] make nukes cheaper [16:33] what?! [16:33] * Vilasanti (h@Vilasanti.Users.AfterNET.Org) Quit (Quit) [16:33] its a war game [16:33] its a war game [16:33] are you stupid? you want negative pilots out and nukes cheaper? [16:34] Its not a mech game [16:34] i realize that.. [16:34] Its not a mech game [16:34] yes [16:34] in most cases a war game means better pilots [16:34] better pilot means less strategy [16:34] Cipher, watch the spam [16:34] it should be a mech game :< [16:34] nukes have no skill involved...using pilots do [16:34] the game is designed around units generally being skill 3-5 [16:34] tanks get boring after a while ;) [16:34] * Marathon cracks open a can of NevGold and enjoys the mushroom cloud serenity [16:35] lol Marathon [16:35] * FelixAFK (jimclutche@felix.Users.AfterNET.Org) has joined #neveron [16:36] missle command [16:36] Nukes are the Ultimate Whos your daddy Tech [16:36] lol [16:36] thats stratey [16:36] :D [16:36] its a tactical nuke [16:36] light gauss rifles are more fun though [16:36] reseach missle command for 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 RP [16:36] hehe [16:36] nukes are not strategy [16:36] .k Darkhawk Spam [16:36] * Darkhawk was kicked by X3 ((KOOLAID|AFK) Spam) [16:36] they're a brute-force [16:36] of course not [16:36] their a tactica [16:36] * Darkhawk (Java@bas1-london14-1096743573.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #neveron [16:37] minigauss are awesome too! [16:37] :'( [16:37] * Mezzo-BuyingDp (adammckerl@CPE00b0d01906bb-CM000f21205e3a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Quit) [16:37] hence a tactical nuke [16:37] WWS, I have one suggestion for the unit cap that might help [16:37] * Mezzo-BuyingDp (adammckerl@CPE00b0d01906bb-CM000f21205e3a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #neveron [16:37] * X3 sets mode: +v Mezzo-BuyingDp [16:37] We need cruzie missles in the game [16:37] * Arki_Busy is now known as Arkidda [16:37] * FelixAFK is now known as Felix [16:37] deadly killer sudoku completed :) [16:37] Make the PER CITY and TOTAL EMPIRE cap be directly related to the population density in the empire's cities [16:38] and Vtols [16:38] my understanding of CBT is that technologies such as nuclear warfare are generally avoided as it makes the basic game unworkable [16:38] higher frequency of nukes missiles etc would seriously alter the nature of the game [16:38] i think nukes are stupid....they have no place in nev [16:38] their would be alot less lag [16:38] IMHO [16:38] more ward [16:38] war [16:38] more units killed [16:38] marathon [16:38] almost exactly 55mins as it predicted [16:38] and a cleaner data base [16:38] what will it take [16:38] to get you to realize [16:38] you will get better balance as you go up, the defenses would be logical, and on top of that, it would likely generate more DP as people see the better stance of having more solid cities, rather than hundreds of "tent cities" [16:38] this is NOT CBT [16:38] i know i know [16:39] i only mention as it has paraleels to this game [16:39] in that it may have a similar effect [16:39] if your empire is more compact you can have more units [16:39] ? [16:39] why not just set a cap and it will encourage that anyway [16:39] wayward have you ever thought of increasing th Cf factor of buildings [16:39] yes, but there is a point beyond level 10 when it is just unfeasible to have less than 7K units or so [16:39] cap based on garrison buildings! :p [16:39] cuz you can't dp build non buildables anymore [16:40] so bigger empire will be smaller on the map as their citys will be more condence [16:40] not unfeasible just unattractive to some people [16:40] * Splurch (EWalker465@adsl-69-109-112-119.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #neveron [16:40] * X3 sets mode: +v Splurch [16:40] [Splurch] ok i think i totally just fixed the game [16:40] less units means you have to be more active [16:40] because, then, if you attack someone, you have to strip defenses to attack, and while I agree that should happen to some degree, there would be too much with a 5K cap, much less 2K [16:40] but it might just make gunner happy [16:40] How low is the unit cap going? [16:40] and when you all allowed us to move cities and such, i was told more than once, they won't get moved close to exisiting cities cuz we're not gonna "make you a core" [16:41] * Fallstar_Studying (Fallstar@203-213-63-37-syd-ts11-2600.tpgi.com.au) has left #neveron [16:41] well if say you made cf 300 building doable a levle 14 can condence his citys and have a very good miltary and people would always be fighting quality units [16:41] WWS how low is the unit cap going? [16:42] fl's need to support factions (that actually supports a faction), so their sitaution is slightly different than just a large empire of same level [16:42] I agree with a unit cap, Wayward, please understand, I just don't want to see large empires that want to be active losing wars in short order because to marshal their forces, they leave 7 or 8 1K zones with skeletal defense and then lose them in 30 minutes to hot drop and ABR because they can't move their (now) attacking units back to defensive [16:43] Unit Cap id anything should be based on Empire level, NOT overall foreveryone [16:43] well I would more cap offensive units than defensives ones...as I said the system I was envisioning was more about towers. Lets say you could have 2,000 offensive units and then the number of towers you could have in each city was based on something else. It would need to be such that the towers would force the defender to be smart about their placement and design, and not be able to just put heaps into the zone and allow that to overwhelm [16:43] any attacker [16:43] ok, nice [16:43] if I attacked Eggy id hit her towers, start dismantling them until she or her pilots got online and grabbed her mech battalions and we started duking it out [16:43] as long as the end state does not mean you have no army for dealing with tactical situations [16:44] your saying that Towers don't count torwards the Cap? [16:44] exactly that [16:44] towers ARE CRAP without back up [16:44] agreed [16:44] * Sarge (Sarge@S010600045a8611b2.ed.shawcable.net) has joined #neveron [16:44] yes Egwene|Afkish and that they should be [16:44] not if terrain gets fixed sometime [16:44] if you dont get online to defend your empire at some point [16:44] you shoudl lose [16:44] but Wayward_Son [16:44] and what about if i have to work, or i'm on vacation? [16:44] We can't get online at the drop of a hat [16:44] and yes I'm working with making better terrain models [16:44] then you have Cf's and surrenders [16:44] and pilots [16:45] and my faction happens to get into an fwar so others are busy fighting in their own empires ? [16:45] ~upgrade PPC-48 [16:45] Wayward, is there any plan to ever streamline terrain to have realistic gradients between, and within, zones? [16:45] lol [16:45] nm, just saw your pre-answer [16:45] then Wayward, bring back 10 and 20% surrenders [16:45] well for starters you need to lose the word 'realistic because nev terrain isnt nearly varied ENOUGH to be considered realistic. [16:45] WWS: if your units are on AI, you will loose with the current state of nev, so that point isn't backing the suggested changes [16:45] or even better, i don't WANT to give out my login, cuz i may have pissed someone off 5 yrs ago, and they just go in and delete everything, and you guys tell me i'm fcked have a nice day ? [16:46] and pilots are always online or always watching your empire [16:46] exactly, Wayward, I really believe Nev could use a terrain "revamp" [16:46] yes Gambit_buys_DP_75m but people dont attack because it means wading through untold and uncapped zillions of highly skilled tanks [16:46] it needs rivers, lakes, forests, deserts, crap like that [16:46] and in most cases the large empires DO have active people defending them and fighting in them [16:46] not all of us use the gruffy defense :P [16:46] In short Defense means NOTHING now? [16:46] Eggy has pilots to back her up [16:46] hmm [16:46] huh? [16:46] not every emp is like Eggy's though [16:46] no of course not [16:46] deserts with a multiplier against HS efficiency... [16:47] making energy based units less effective :p [16:47] * Cambone is now known as Cambone|town [16:47] * Ovie (lord-ovie@pool-71-96-149-175.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #neveron [16:47] opposite with a tundra area! [16:47] I don't care about HS efficiency that much, if it is universal, it is universal, but terrain.......that is a serious thing [16:47] but WW what if i don't wish to give out a pilot to my empire, too much login abuse has happened and i don't want to get told my you or seth "oh well you shouldn't have given your login out " [16:47] * Retrieving #neveron modes... [16:47] * Wolfhunter (guest7714@cpe-71-79-1-68.cinci.res.rr.com) has joined #neveron [16:47] well, if you got further north or south here, it oughta get a little better :p [16:47] Precisely, I agree with eggy [16:47] the units in Neveron are based off of CBT, and as a result, terrain is a factor in their performance [16:48] you def shouldnt give out your logins, but allowing player permissions is another thing completely [16:48] but they can still screw your empire up..... [16:48] BS< all the abuse that has been done has been thru pilot logins [16:48] exactly [16:48] and if you dont have the crew to back you up then you are going to lose, that is nothing new [16:48] you don't know who to trust wws [16:48] i still say u should drop the decreses in range....the other ideas are good......if not great [16:48] ever tried using archers near volcanos? [16:48] 1 person in a level 10 will lose if they dont have backup [16:48] results are not pretty [16:48] but wws [16:48] not truw wayward [16:48] even a level 6 will have a hard time against a team of pilots [16:48] And if your in a Fwar?> [16:48] youi say they will lose but you won't protect againes tlogin abuse [16:48] ive controeld a lvl 11 by myself and won [16:49] Pendo had a 10 decimated to a lvl 8 thru pilot login [16:49] Eggy, Everybody in my alliance has totaly access to my empire, i trust every 1 of them totaly [16:49] then you're a fool [16:49] if you cant do that, then join NC :) [16:49] takes 1 of them to screw you over [16:49] Ovie - until you piss off one of them, even by mistake [16:49] 1 to decide i am gonna be a jerk today [16:49] I have been meaning to get a "vaction mode" in for a long time [16:49] if that happens, so be it [16:49] 3 ppl have full access to my empire [16:49] umm, actually, WWS, I was alone in AG versus 2 level 10s, one level 11, and a level 8, and THEN I lost, but I was holding my own versus the two level 10s for a couple RL days [16:49] but eggy, you know that without help your empire wont survive an attack [16:49] the game has always been that way [16:50] and its not a suprise to you [16:50] i know that [16:50] well i take that backl [16:50] it's a matter of finding people that don't suck [16:50] "survive" wasnt the right word [16:50] but "succeed" [16:50] which lately seem to be in short supply :p [16:50] Or finding people who have the time [16:50] i'm saying you guys will DO NOTHIGN about anyone who I may have trusted and fcks me over [16:50] lol@WWS [16:50] lol ive won with a lvl 11 with no help [16:50] Not everyone has the time [16:50] or they may be in their own war [16:50] every login "absuse" i have investigate has gone like this: [16:51] i spend a lot of time tracking the IP [16:51] "Hoppy did it! [16:51] LOL [16:51] and evenutally it goes to a computer that nobody has ever used before [16:51] * Egwene|Afkish pokes Logres[AMI] bad man [16:51] and I want a Rhino as recompense!!!" [16:51] internet cafes are good? :p [16:51] at an IP that either has 200 empires on it [16:51] becasue its a university [16:51] how can that be ? [16:51] heh [16:51] or none [16:51] Thus the MAC address built into the ativex [16:51] Granted it's not perfect [16:51] But a step in the right direction [16:52] WW i sent in a ticket from my empire a couple months ago but i think it disappeared into cyber space [16:52] And then have more steps [16:52] cuz i can't find it [16:52] because eggy people arent stupid when it comes to that stuff. If they have your login and are going to screw you over, they go to a computer at a library or a relative that doesnt play neveron or whatever [16:52] and do it from there [16:52] nor was it every answered [16:52] well good thing the 3 ppl who do have access i trust with my life :) [16:52] so then I can ban someone's uncle's friend's IP [16:52] MAC addy is one (long term) way to possibly curb it some, but really, you people are in just as much danger from someone infiltrating your faction then......... [16:52] Every computer banned is one more they can't use to screw people over [16:52] or the entire university of Michigan [16:52] YES! [16:52] YES [16:53] YES! [16:53] * Ovie cries "eggy why aint i on that list" [16:53] Afternet has banned them several times [16:53] cuz i don't trust you with my life :) [16:53] To keep Hoppy off of here [16:53] lol [16:53] Michigan students are all EVIL ! [16:53] MI is evil! [16:53] Is not [16:53] is too [16:53] Just certain people that live there [16:53] could you IP lock logins? removes flexibility...? [16:53] lol [16:53] ;) [16:53] reminds me of a time a game tried to ban a few people, but they used aol [16:53] why you guys just give me Hoppy's address, and I SWEAR I WON'T TOUCH HIM, I'll go talk to him about it? [16:53] * Pausanian (guest0574@c-71-205-211-34.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #neveron [16:54] so they had to ban a wide region of space :p [16:54] lol logres [16:54] Michigan is the home of the Detroit redwings... RedWings = Evil [16:54] it's not the best solution, but it worked [16:54] kreger!!!!!!!!!!! [16:54] Okay [16:54] i love on the forums where Hoppy says that if I implement the proposed changes hes gonna quit. i kinda qondered how many people voted Yes cause of that alone [16:54] :) [16:54] Wayward how close are you to fixing the map for people who installed that windows update [16:54] Logres is scaring ME! [16:55] I kinda like the new changes [16:55] i like most [16:55] not very Darkhawk, its a real serious pain in the ass. i'm hoping in the next week we will be good, but its not simple. [16:55] i dont like the lose of idf range [16:55] have to find a whole new ssytem of doing it [16:55] one that doesn't lag? :) [16:55] Wayward - but seriously, i am not opposed to Unit Caps... but can't you have it on a per level basis? [16:55] I'd realy like it if thoes changes were amde and IDF was added to LRM to help counter some of the nerfing of IDF [16:55] well the one i foudn so far is a lot slower than the current one [16:55] * Byrn_Ashten (me@user-0ccsrtq.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #neveron [16:55] * ored_afk is now known as ored_buyDP [16:56] hmm, add buildings that raise unitcap? :/ [16:56] The only thing I want at this moment... is a list that shows the empires on noob island [16:56] lol [16:56] set unit cap based on lvl and remove max once u get a lvl 14 [16:56] So I don't have to click on each emp to see if they are there or not [16:56] ya i hate that [16:56] KOOLAID=n00b raper [16:56] good idea gummy [16:56] or the building one works [16:56] empires in faction on noob island will be cleared out in the next week [16:56] you are so going to Hell, Chief [16:56] either you have support and a lower unitcap [16:56] I know [16:56] I'll bring ice skates [16:56] or you have less support and a bigger cap [16:57] heh [16:57] Ummm Hello [16:57] wws you must nullify those votes [16:57] it won't be froze over K [16:57] it wasn't fair [16:57] Wayward_Son: what about empires that are over lvl 3 in the noob island? [16:57] they thought hoppy was gonna quit [16:57] so they voted yes [16:57] * Logres[AMI] is going to the fridge for more beer [16:57] If that think in Iraq is ever fixed it will [16:57] I love being ignored [16:57] lol @ Ravill [16:57] * Sarge (Sarge@S010600045a8611b2.ed.shawcable.net) has left #neveron [16:57] * Wolfhunter is now known as Wolfhunt_afk [16:57] hi Arkidda [16:57] WWS, thanks for coming in here and chatting with us [16:57] dinner time!!!!!!!!!!! [16:57] We all appreciate it [16:58] what's eggy having for dinner? [16:58] I appreciate that most of you are brainstorming positively on this stuff [16:58] there are some good ideas [16:58] And those that don't... well... you have access to the .addlamer command [16:58] * Ovie Huggles WWS tilly style [16:58] what about a system in which only "border" zones can be attacked ? [16:58] I'll take some if it beats beef chili [16:58] Son is having ramen soup and grilled cheese [16:58] * Logres[AMI] wonders what the command is to put everyone BUT Wayward on ignore, so he can get the short version........... [16:58] Hi Ravill [16:58] hmm [16:58] hey Wayward_Son [16:58] lol [16:58] I would like to extend you an invitation [16:58] I have a kickall command I can use [16:58] come to #neveron_admin and play roulette [16:58] so, we have to wait 2 more days, to see if the games going to be completely revamped or not.... [16:58] I keep intending to code cleanse KOOLAID|AFK [16:59] that will kick someone from every channel mattbot can see them on [16:59] * Ruinn (johan_vald@d141-215-172.home.cgocable.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [16:59] naw Joseph_McKenna{NC-CSR} nothing hinges on the poll the discussion is the important part [16:59] * Angel (Angel@host86-134-245-23.range86-134.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Quit)