Karagin
08/30/02 01:23 AM
63.173.170.149
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code:
Class/Model/Name: Kardeesh B'Arkahhr Class Cruiser Dak'hil
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type: WarShip
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 1,370,000 tons
K-F Drive System: (Unknown)
Length: 25 meters
Power Plant: Standard
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:
2 Heavy N-Gauss
20 Heavy NPPC
52 NL55
1 AR10 Launcher
160 Small Pulse Laser
200 ER Large Laser
115 Screen Launcher
8 NAC/10
120 Gauss Rifle
70 LRM 20
80 Large Pulse Laser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name: Kardeesh B'Arkahhr Class Cruiser Dak'hil
Mass: 1,370,000 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control: 246,600.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 27) 619,925.00
Lithium Fusion Battery 13,700.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 6) 98.00
Structural Integrity: 150 205,500.00
Total Heat Sinks: 7,213 Double 6,466.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 15,300.00
Bridge, Controls, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 3,425.00
Fire Control Computers: 57,201.00
Food & Water: (418 days supply) 2,302.00
Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide (4,170 total armor pts) 4,080.00
Capital Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Fore: 764
Fore-Left/Right: 695/695
Aft-Left/Right: 695/695
Aft: 626
Cargo:
Bay 1: Fighters (72) with 4 doors 10,800.00
Bay 2: Small Craft (6) with 4 doors 1,200.00
Cargo (1) 4,127.00
DropShip Capacity: 2 Docking Hardpoints 2,000.00
Grav Decks #1 - 2: (500-meter diameter) 1,000.00
Grav Decks #3 - 4: (250-meter diameter) 200.00
Grav Deck #5: (100-meter diameter) 100.00
Crew and Passengers:
114 Officers (114 minimum) 1,140.00
205 Crew (205 minimum) 1,435.00
303 Gunners (303 minimum) 2,121.00
20 1st Class Passengers 200.00
20 2nd Class Passengers 140.00
20 Steerage Passengers 100.00
245 Marines 1,225.00
174 Bay Personnel .00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Heavy N-Gauss(20 rounds) Nose 60 60 60 60 36 14,010.00
4 Heavy NPPC Nose 60 60 60 60 900 12,000.00
10 NL55 Nose 55 55 55 55 850 11,000.00
1 AR10 (10 KW, 10 WS, 20 B)Nose * * * * 20 1,750.00
20 Small Pulse Laser Nose 6(60) -- -- -- 40 20.00
40 ER Large Laser Nose 32(320)32(320)32(320) -- 480 200.00
15 Screen Launcher(150 scrnNose -- -- -- -- 150 2,100.00
4 Heavy NPPC FL/R 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
2 NAC/10(20 rounds) FL/R 20 20 20 -- 120 8,008.00
20 Gauss Rifle(200 rounds) FL/R 30(300)30(300)30(300) -- 40 650.00
20 Small Pulse Laser FL/R 6(60) -- -- -- 80 40.00
10 LRM 20(102 rounds) FL/R 12(120)12(120)12(120) -- 120 234.00
20 ER Large Laser FL/R 16(160)16(160)16(160) -- 480 200.00
10 NL55 FL/R 55 55 55 55 1700 22,000.00
15 Screen Launcher(150 scrnFL/R -- -- -- -- 300 4,200.00
20 Gauss Rifle(200 rounds) L/RBS 30(300)30(300)30(300) -- 40 650.00
20 Large Pulse Laser L/RBS 18(180)18(180) -- -- 400 280.00
20 Small Pulse Laser L/RBS 6(60) -- -- -- 80 40.00
10 LRM 20(102 rounds) L/RBS 12(120)12(120)12(120) -- 120 234.00
20 ER Large Laser L/RBS 16(160)16(160)16(160) -- 480 200.00
15 Screen Launcher(150 scrnL/RBS -- -- -- -- 300 4,200.00
4 Heavy NPPC AL/R 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
2 NAC/10(20 rounds) AL/R 20 20 20 -- 120 8,008.00
20 Gauss Rifle(200 rounds) AL/R 30(300)30(300)30(300) -- 40 650.00
20 Small Pulse Laser AL/R 6(60) -- -- -- 80 40.00
10 LRM 20(102 rounds) AL/R 12(120)12(120)12(120) -- 120 234.00
20 ER Large Laser AL/R 16(160)16(160)16(160) -- 480 200.00
10 NL55 AL/R 55 55 55 55 1700 22,000.00
15 Screen Launcher(150 scrnAL/R -- -- -- -- 300 4,200.00
20 Small Pulse Laser Aft 6(60) -- -- -- 40 20.00
10 LRM 20(102 rounds) Aft 12(120)12(120)12(120) -- 60 117.00
40 ER Large Laser Aft 32(320)32(320)32(320) -- 480 200.00
10 Screen Launcher(100 scrnAft -- -- -- -- 100 1,400.00
2 NL55 Aft 11 11 11 11 170 2,200.00
40 Large Pulse Laser Aft 36(360)36(360) -- -- 400 280.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 14,426 1,370,000.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 13,843,014,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 262,626
Cost per BV: 52,709.99
Weapon Value: 217,466 (Ratio = .83)
Damage Factors: SRV = 11,778; MRV = 10,414; LRV = 6,450; ERV = 2,103
BattleForce2: Not applicable
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
08/30/02 01:50 PM
24.44.238.62
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Pretty much identical comments to Vitak: streamline the capital weapons and segregate them and the std weapons to save on FCS.
Thanks to FCS, Naval Lasers are completely USELESS, except on corvettes (that maybe don't have the mass for NPPCs). Similarly, L and M NPPCs are as well.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Karagin
08/30/02 02:58 PM
63.173.170.227
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I follow your line of thinking as far as seperating the weapons, but doing that seems to led one base warship and a thousand clones...I thought the idea was for each weapon set to support the other...
Putting all of the standard weapons in the boardsides and aft area seems kind of odd to me, give that space is 3D not 2D.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
08/30/02 03:28 PM
24.44.238.62
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But, you see, the arcs overlap (as they should). This allows you, if you're putting all weapons in all arcs, to have coverage from at least two (sometimes three) arcs on whatever target.
But...if you care more about minimizing FCS tonnage, you can separate the Standard and Capital Weapons--remember, the Fore Sides and Aft Sides arcs are REDUNDANT. Therefore, you actually have two *different* sets of arcs to play with: F, A, BS; and FS, AS.
That way you can keep your capital weapons under FCS limits, and your standard weapons (which mass *sooo* much less) can easily exceed FCS limits but not make your capital weapons even larger.
You can still have overlapping range brackets--because the FS arcs overlap the Nose and LBS/RBS arcs, and the AS arcs overlap the LBS/RBS and Aft arcs.
This is, of course, all bull because, as you say, space is 3D...but the arcs themselves are arbitrary anyway, and 2D themselves.
If I were designing my own version of AT2 now... (and I am)...
Arcs are now represented by letters, A-X (therefore 24 arcs, each 15 degrees). Turrets cost the usual 10% * #arcs/24 (so 5% to fire into half the arcs). FCS limits are--of course!--tossed, and capital weapons are brought into line with standard weapons (or, better said, their efficiency is on the same range curve as std), and armor is massively increased to compensate.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Karagin
08/30/02 03:45 PM
63.173.170.5
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I follow the over lapping and I do see the FCS weights...here rubs the problem for me.
Cramming all of the secondary weapons in the boardside and aft which would make sense given that the F and A sides would have the largest overlap this would be the best place for the capital weapons leads very little difference between the ships.
Remember we are suppose to be building pratical warships that fit into the game...I know it's smarter to go with all H-NPPC and very little else on the ship but after awhile all you have are smaller version of same ship all armed with H-NNPCs and fighters and some point defense weapons...not much fun is it?
I feel that tossing in a set of Gauss Fifles or AC10s depending on the tech level or time frame, in with Capital weapons in the same arc helps keep the other side guessing as to what you have.
As for the 3D of space, it's a mute point since AT2 and BS both work with a 2D model with some attempts at 3D.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
08/30/02 05:04 PM
24.44.238.62
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Yeah, I've pretty much given up harping on AF weapon choices...they're relatively inconsequential for warships, anyway, and it just makes people so *happy* to mix-n-match. 
Nitpick: cramming AF weapons onto the Fore, Broadside, and Aft arcs.
The difference, IMO, comes from the differing roles of the ship; since, due to the way BT weapons are structured, 500pts of damage is 500pts of damage, no matter where it comes from. Thus, except for fancy names, there is no difference in AT2 between the damage a cER PPC or Gauss rifle does. So it comes down to the role(s) for the warship as the area to innovate in. Ack-Ack escort ships, massive fleet carriers, fast carriers that try to stay well out of range, picket ships with ungodly speeds, your average plain-vanilla battlewagon, general purpose cruisers, anti-dropship destroyers, etc.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
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