Newtype
10/14/08 12:09 PM
75.52.182.110
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Note: I'm not done with these rules; I'd like to playtest them and read your comments. I am open to recommendations.
ROYGBIV energy shields (Hagelin shields) Named after world-renowned quantum physicist Dr. John Hagelin, ROYGBIV shields are a rework of the Blue Shield that provide tremendous protection for units/structures at the expense of weapon accuracy and heat. ROYGBIV shields use all seven colors of the visible light spectrum (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, and violet). For each ROYGBIV shield color a unit/structure uses during a turn, that unit/structure: has all damage that unit/structure takes reduced by one-seventh, has each roll on a Determining Critical Hits table it takes reduced by 1, and has an additional +3 to-hit modifer to each weapon used when attacking in the same turn the ROYGBIV shield is activated. ROYGBIV shields illuminate the unit/structure they're mounted on and so the nighttime modifier does not apply to attacks made against an object using ROYGBIV shields. A ROYGBIV shield masses 10% of the unit/structure it's mounted on, has a number of heat points per turn its activated equal to its tonnage, and has a cost equal to its tonnage multiplied by 210.. Given how that rainbows indicate cooperation which is the opposite of competition and how that the ROYGBIV shields greatly hinder weapons' abilities to train onto targets, Clan personnel will never use shields.
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Cray
10/18/08 01:24 AM
97.97.243.184
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BT doesn't have force fields.
The magnetic shield of "blue shield" is the limit by using ridiculously strong magnetic fields (the kind that should only exist in labs) to diffuse PPC bolts, and it pushes the limit of BT physics (such as they are.) Those fields will be useless against anything but PPC bolts.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Newtype
10/23/08 11:23 AM
75.52.182.110
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I got this idea from Gradius III energy shields. These Rainbow ROYGBIV Hagelin shields are just reworkings of those energy shields. Interesting that rainbow, ROYGBIV, Hagelin, each have seven letters. I wonder what Gerald O' Donnell 777 on http://www.grillflame.net/forums thinks about that - he's often saying to activate your light in RV & RI training.
Edited by Newtype (10/23/08 11:34 AM)
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
10/28/08 05:02 AM
64.118.122.215
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Whats the point in having something that is almost totally useless and talking up a great amount of weight?
Personally, I will just leave shield technology to the Startreck gamers and keep it out of BT. This is from someone that was called a mucher.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Prince_of_Darkness
10/28/08 12:32 PM
205.202.120.139
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He is.
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Newtype
11/04/08 06:44 PM
207.160.205.13
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The point is ultimate defense as in spacecraft that use Hagelin shields can't be damaged so easily.
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Lafeel
11/04/08 06:47 PM
157.157.73.13
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Quote:
The point is ultimate defense as in spacecraft that use Hagelin shields can't be damaged so easily.
Fact: Shields do not belong in Battletech, never have, never will. Live with it.
These things would probably neccessitate a total re write of the rules, and irregardless of that, they would be totally unbalancing.
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Newtype
11/04/08 06:52 PM
207.160.205.13
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Quote:
Fact: Shields do not belong in Battletech, never have, never will. Live with it.
More RIing I have to do. Oh and I'm sure that players have said the same thing about ultra and rotary ACs.
Quote:
These things would probably neccessitate a total re write of the rules, and irregardless of that, they would be totally unbalancing.
How would they require a total rewrite of TW? Damage explanations and weapon to-hit calculations are explained totally above. Looks like norewrite needed. How would they be totally unbalancing? They trade weapons fire for defense proportionally.
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Zandel_Corrin
11/04/08 10:43 PM
123.2.140.247
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Lafeel.... i'm not so sure about that point..... they could be something for the future but as it stands the ONLY shield similar tech is in fusion plants and KF drives.... so IF it does happen it's a LONG way off.... and that assumes that no more Jihards / big wars happen.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Lafeel
11/04/08 10:46 PM
157.157.73.13
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Quote:
Lafeel.... i'm not so sure about that point..... they could be something for the future but as it stands the ONLY shield similar tech is in fusion plants and KF drives.... so IF it does happen it's a LONG way off.... and that assumes that no more Jihards / big wars happen.
I'm not sure I'd want to be playing BT if it comes to that. Would be changed so much that it'd hardly feel like the same system to me any more, sorry.
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Zandel_Corrin
11/04/08 10:49 PM
123.2.140.247
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I kind of feel the same way.... but at the same time... evolution is what it's all about.... and just look how well the clans were done.... most of us who played PRE-Clan were a bit worried about a new much higher tech force coming in and crashing the party but then the story was good and done way better then the Battletech Cartoon ;D
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Lafeel
11/04/08 10:53 PM
157.157.73.13
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Not that that's saying much. *laughs, has the sourcebook for that series*
I don't know, I miss the old fasa days, the game seems to have gone a bit down hill since then *feels old now*
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Zandel_Corrin
11/05/08 06:07 PM
123.2.140.247
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I know what you mean..... saw that show again recently on YouTube..... it's so funny but so stupid at the same time....
I even see a bidding process where one warrior bids not to use her Mad Dog's (Vulture for IS's) lasers and then does first thing....
o.O
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Prince_of_Darkness
11/06/08 03:10 PM
205.202.120.139
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Quote:
Quote:
Fact: Shields do not belong in Battletech, never have, never will. Live with it.
More RIing I have to do. Oh and I'm sure that players have said the same thing about ultra and rotary ACs.
We really haven't.
Quote:
Quote:
These things would probably neccessitate a total re write of the rules, and irregardless of that, they would be totally unbalancing.
How would they require a total rewrite of TW? Damage explanations and weapon to-hit calculations are explained totally above. Looks like norewrite needed. How would they be totally unbalancing? They trade weapons fire for defense proportionally.
...please tell me that I don't have to explain this to you as well.
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Cray
11/12/08 07:02 PM
97.97.243.184
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Quote:
Lafeel.... i'm not so sure about that point..... they could be something for the future but as it stands the ONLY shield similar tech is in fusion plants and KF drives.... so IF it does happen it's a LONG way off.... and that assumes that no more Jihards / big wars happen.
BT's fusion plants only use magnetic fields, which is what the "Blue Shield" project uses (to its detriment - per TacOps, it's a maintenance nightmare.)
The KF drive doesn't use force fields or energy fields per se. It doesn't have a function that could transform into a battlefield force field.
And in either case, force fields don't fit BT's "gritty" technology. This is a game where giant robots blaze away with giant gunpowder cannons at 200 meters, not where they fire phasors and watch their shield percentage shrink.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Zandel_Corrin
11/13/08 01:29 AM
123.2.140.247
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Too true.... Except the KF drive....
Something has to shield the ship when jumping to Hyperspace and back... the kinds of forces we're talking about would rip the skip apart.
But as you say it would almost never be translated small enough to be used in normal BTech play.... that would require something like a miniture KF drive....
Hmmmm... I think we just came up with the next big stupid idea.... guess we're taking Newtypes job...
out and away from that....
BTech is a lot 'gritty' but just see how Babylon 5 handled it..... gtitty to high tech and well done.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Newtype
11/15/08 12:34 PM
207.160.205.13
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me: Quote:
How would they require a total rewrite of TW? Damage explanations and weapon to-hit calculations are explained totally above. Looks like norewrite needed. How would they be totally unbalancing? They trade weapons fire for defense proportionally.
Prince of Darkness: Quote:
...please tell me that I don't have to explain this to you as well.
Perhaps a minor amount of TW retyping would be in effect. The heat "phase" can be removed and all heat effects resolved in the end phase. I'd settle for abolishing the kitworking section in favor of more rules. TW is supposed to be standard/tournament rules anyways.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
11/24/08 10:32 AM
24.6.54.109
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Quote:
Too true.... Except the KF drive....
Something has to shield the ship when jumping to Hyperspace and back... the kinds of forces we're talking about would rip the skip apart.
I had always thought of it like being in the eye of a hurricane. You are safe as long as your in the eye.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Zandel_Corrin
11/24/08 06:59 PM
123.2.140.247
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That's an interesting thought.... i still think there would have to be shielding of some sort tho....
As i understand it the KF drive comes very close to opening a wormhole equivilent so that's some heavy Gs
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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GiovanniBlasini
11/27/08 07:23 AM
64.183.4.46
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Quote:
That's an interesting thought.... i still think there would have to be shielding of some sort tho....
As i understand it the KF drive comes very close to opening a wormhole equivilent so that's some heavy Gs
KF Drives use that fun "Future of the 1980s!" sci-fi staple, "hyperspace". What that actually means in terms of real-world physics is questionable, and the writers have been loathe to paint themselves into a corner by using real-world theories that may or may not be handily disproven in the next few years...or forever remain a mystery.
That said, Fallguy on Classic Battletech put together a pretty decent explanation, extrapolating from quantum mechanics, and some of the implications from string/M-theory. Creating a "wormhole" isn't quite right - it's more like you're changing the entire physical state of the ship at a quantum level, into something corresponding with the ship at its destination point. The "in-between state" between these two points, then, becomes "hyperspace".
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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Zandel_Corrin
11/30/08 05:38 PM
123.2.140.247
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Interesting idea.... the best i've seen to date tho is from the TV series Babylon 5... they have a very good explanation of hyperspace.
Something to do with a different type of space that is 'inside' normal space. When you enter you travel faster in hyper then out and you go faster the deeper your in...
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Newtype
12/22/08 12:18 PM
207.160.205.13
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Also, the ROYGBIV Hagelin shields can't function when a dark matter cloaking device is cloaking/uncloaking/cloaked a unit.
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MaiShirunaiispretty
02/12/09 10:36 PM
207.160.205.13
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Your Hagelin shields apparently can provide infinite defense, so how is Defensive BV calculated? Seems like Defensive BV would be very high since there's eight settings from 0 (totally inactive shields) to 7 (totally infinite active shields). This wouldn't be TW material given the DefBV calculations.
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Kovax
02/13/09 10:31 AM
75.146.193.46
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Does Newtype have 7 settings like his latest funky device? If we can somehow toggle HIM to "Off"....
I'm pretty sure that the whole point of this and all of the other half-baked looney schemes is to get "outside approval" for what basically amounts to a "cheat". If any of us agree to it, he can then claim that it's got support on the forums, and at least try to convince someone to let him use it in a game to gain an unfair advantage. Since the only support I've EVER seen for his nonsense is from his other "aliases", that's obviously not going to happen.
From a BT-friendly perspective, if the current shield generator technology requires a sizable building, and only shields against PPC particles (by deflecting the charged particles with a magnetic field), how big would the space station need to be in order to generate a field to protect a docked warship from PPCs? It would be useless against lasers, autocannons, missles, and thrown insults, but COULD be made to reduce the effectiveness of incoming PPC fire. Of course, the field would be of insufficient strength to protect something as large as the space station generating it, and the cost might be high enough to bankrupt the entire Inner Sphere, but it might be POSSIBLE to protect a ship. And NO, it won't protect against anything besides PPCs. If you want to protect against all that other stuff, that's why the game designers included ARMOR in the rules.
Is there any form of shield which could be used to protect this forum from Newtype's irrational ideas?
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/13/09 01:36 PM
24.5.141.133
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Quote:
Is there any form of shield which could be used to protect this forum from Newtype's irrational ideas?
I think that would be the best investment that the Clans and Inner Sphere states could invest in, even if it bankrupts all of the Clans and the Inner Sphere states.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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MaiShirunaiispretty
02/13/09 03:59 PM
207.160.205.13
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Not that I believe these Hagelin shields should be in TW, but I do think that Newtype should be encouraged to play with them if he wants to. We shouldn't shun him or anyone else away from CBT who wants to play. If you don't like someone's playing style don't take your frustrations out on him/her; just simply not use his/her playing style. We've got to get as many people as possible for CBT to be very successful. If these Hagelin shields were published, they wouldn't even be in TO, let alone TW. Most likely they'd wind up in a revised edition of SO.
Wow, those bracing maneuvers sure do come in handy when firing proximity fused precision cluster flak ammo at a Balancer LAM. Unfortunately they make my 'Mech an immobile target for that LAM. Oh well, at least I'm getting partial cover.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/14/09 01:55 PM
24.5.141.133
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Quote:
Not that I believe these Hagelin shields should be in TW, but I do think that Newtype should be encouraged to play with them if he wants to. We shouldn't shun him or anyone else away from CBT who wants to play. If you don't like someone's playing style don't take your frustrations out on him/her; just simply not use his/her playing style. We've got to get as many people as possible for CBT to be very successful. If these Hagelin shields were published, they wouldn't even be in TO, let alone TW. Most likely they'd wind up in a revised edition of SO.
What ever you say newtype!
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Prince_of_Darkness
02/17/09 10:27 AM
205.202.120.139
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Quote:
Not that I believe these Hagelin shields should be in TW, but I do think that Newtype should be encouraged to play with them if he wants to. We shouldn't shun him or anyone else away from CBT who wants to play. If you don't like someone's playing style don't take your frustrations out on him/her; just simply not use his/her playing style. We've got to get as many people as possible for CBT to be very successful. If these Hagelin shields were published, they wouldn't even be in TO, let alone TW. Most likely they'd wind up in a revised edition of SO.
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Kovax
02/19/09 10:09 AM
75.146.193.46
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Quote:
Not that I believe these Hagelin shields should be in TW, but I do think that Newtype should be encouraged to play with them if he wants to. We shouldn't shun him or anyone else away from CBT who wants to play.
As I said, the only person who agrees with Newtype is Newtype under his various aliases. Since nobody else is willing to support his ridiculous ideas, he's going to extreme measures to "appear" to have support. Any other forum would boot his posterior off the boards for abusing multiple accounts to carry on a conversation with himself, or to "verify" his own illogic.
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Lefric
02/19/09 10:38 AM
216.120.184.66
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Quote:
I'd settle for abolishing the kitworking section in favor of more rules. TW is supposed to be standard/tournament rules anyways.
Kitworking is not a word.
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm." -George Orwell
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