Combat Equipment oddity...

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Gnome76
07/04/05 08:04 PM
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Now, I know it says they're "rough" guidelines, but if you go by all the rules on page 19 of Combat Equipment for ammo weights, then the Support Machine Gun weighs -6.5 kg unloaded.
Nightward
07/04/05 08:54 PM
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Cool. I'll start strapping them to everything, including Dire Wolves. Although there's no hard-and-fast rules, I imagine the effects would be similar the rules for Low Gravity worlds...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Karagin
07/04/05 08:57 PM
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Groan...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
CrayModerator
07/05/05 02:40 PM
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Quote:

Now, I know it says they're "rough" guidelines, but if you go by all the rules on page 19 of Combat Equipment for ammo weights, then the Support Machine Gun weighs -6.5 kg unloaded.




Yes, and it's quite possible that might happen again with other weapons.

The problem stems from the fact that there were (and are) no rules for weapon creation in BT. When Combat Equipment Guide came along and attempted to create a uniform system of ammo weight, it had to work with weapon stats that were created by the seat of writers' pants over the years.

And it was recognized the system would be unavoidably buggy because of those "legacy weapon stats." The disclaimer for the ammo weight rules was a paragraph long and also recognized other bugs in the ammo weight rules.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Karagin
07/05/05 04:47 PM
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What happen to that paragraph?
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
CrayModerator
07/05/05 07:39 PM
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Quote:

What happen to that paragraph?




Oh, you wanted it quoted.

"The following rules provide a rough guideline for determining
the weight of ammunition in personal combat weapons. Note
that, to account for such a broad array of weapons, these rules
make general presumptions for all weapons in a given class and
may result in instances where a weapon that has been described
as using a given gauge of ammo may make use of clips that pro-
vide more shots per kilogram than another weapon said to use
the same ammo gauge. In such cases, the ammunition weight
variance may be the result of a specialized clip design unique to
the weapon. It thus falls on the gamemaster and players to keep
track of how many clips of ammo are in inventory for each
weapon type fielded-a matter that largely helps explain why so
many military units and mercenary commands issue standardized
weapons to their troops, rather than provide for a bewildering
array of weapon types, sizes, and manufacturer's models."
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Gnome76
07/05/05 11:25 PM
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Ah! Another!

Passenger/Crew seats Equipment Rating: C/E-E-E/B... minimum 21st Century tech, very rare, and they're a monitored/licensed item... by the way, "shrooms" are A/A/A.


A police officer pulls over a kid... shines his flashlight into the vehicle... over the kid's face... over the baggie of shrooms on the dash... but pauses when he sees... seats!

"Do you have a license for these seats, son?"

"No, officer, this is my dad's car."

"Well... I guess I'll let you off with a warning... at least they're not *bench* seats."
CrayModerator
07/06/05 08:48 AM
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Quote:

Passenger/Crew seats Equipment Rating: C/E-E-E/B




Oops. That's just a mistake. I'll report it now.

I have to say, I'm glad it's just these little problems that are being found with CEG rather than catastrophic game play issues.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.


Edited by Cray (07/06/05 08:54 AM)
CrayModerator
07/06/05 09:10 AM
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Yep, it's confirmed as an error.

(Another theory circulating among writers was that those seats represent..."a Star League-era massage chair which not only corrects posture and provides a ride so smoothe you think your driving on a cushion of air, but also incorporates full plumbing, a stocked fridge, internet access, and digital cable access live via HPG." Though I suspect humor in that statement. )
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Gnome76
07/06/05 01:36 PM
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Well, Cray, while we're on the subject, could a few requests for clarification be put in as well?

The Weapons and Equipment table, page 108, says light and medium weapons can only be put on Small vehicles. Under "Add Weapons and Ammunition" on page 110, for medium weapons it says "Medium and Large Support Vehicles must round the weight of each medium weapon up to the nearest .5 tons."

Also under "Add Weapons and Ammunition" on page 110, it says "Crew requirements for Support Vehicle-mounted Medium Weapons are half normal (Round up)." On page 121 under "Fire Control" it says "...Medium Weapons [without fire support] require a full crew to operate them." The latter is reinforced on page 129 under medium weapons: "These weapons can either be crew-served (using the base weight of the weapon but requiring the number of personnel to operate..."

Do the Combat Operations stats for engineering equipment stack if more than one piece is mounted on a vehicle? Could a single Support Vehicle with both a Backhoe and a Dumper create 8 prepared positions before a scenario?

Can a light weapon on a Support Vehicle be operated by the driver? Particularly if it's forward-mounted?

Page 127, Power Amplifier: "Light- and Medium-class weapons are equipped with their own integral power supply and do not draw power from the unit. They do not require power amplifiers." I assume this means power packs must be installed and mass allotted for them, and that gauss weapons need enough power packs to fire all available ammunition. Can light and medium weapons be hooked up to a Power Amplifier, even if just for having one less thing to keep track of?

Do vehicles come with headlights, or do I have to mount a Hand-Held Searchlight or two?

Why are 'Mech/fighter bays guaranteed extra space, when other vehicles aren't? Also, in crew/passenger quarters and infantry bays, how much cargo mass is allowed for personal storage? (If these were answered when dealing with AeroTech, could you direct me to the answer?)

Type B Large Naval Template has its bottom Turret space marked with a "3". Should this be a "2", or should there be a "T2" on the pivot point?

What is the reach of a Manipulator? Could the strength (or reach) of a Manipulator be increased with a proportional increase of mass?

Who bastardized the FN p90?

...ummm.... you don't have to answer that last one.
CrayModerator
07/06/05 02:42 PM
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You can ask the writers directly on www.classicbattletech.com 's forums, which includes a forum called "Ask the Writers" (currently renamed "Ask the Minions.")

I know some of those have been answered previously, like the crew requirements.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Gnome76
07/06/05 07:32 PM
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Yeah, I was hoping this could be done without me having to delve into the muck and mire.
Greyslayer
07/06/05 10:11 PM
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With all those errors and such it is good to see they haven't decided to set lofty goals of 1/2 decent playtesting using the book.
Gnome76
07/06/05 10:11 PM
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Okay, posted questions, they got answered, here's some paraphrasing.

Quote:

The Weapons and Equipment table, page 108, says light and medium weapons can only be put on Small vehicles. Under "Add Weapons and Ammunition" on page 110, for medium weapons it says "Medium and Large Support Vehicles must round the weight of each medium weapon up to the nearest .5 tons."


No Light or Medium weapons on Medium or Large vehicles.
Quote:

Also under "Add Weapons and Ammunition" on page 110, it says "Crew requirements for Support Vehicle-mounted Medium Weapons are half normal (Round up)." On page 121 under "Fire Control" it says "...Medium Weapons [without fire support] require a full crew to operate them." The latter is reinforced on page 129 under medium weapons: "These weapons can either be crew-served (using the base weight of the weapon but requiring the number of personnel to operate..."


Half, round up.
Quote:

Do the Combat Operations stats for engineering equipment stack if more than one piece is mounted on a vehicle? Could a single Support Vehicle with both a Backhoe and a Dumper create 8 prepared positions before a scenario?


Yes.
Quote:

Can a light weapon on a Support Vehicle be operated by the driver? Particularly if it's forward-mounted?


GM decision.
Quote:

Page 127, Power Amplifier: "Light- and Medium-class weapons are equipped with their own integral power supply and do not draw power from the unit. They do not require power amplifiers." I assume this means power packs must be installed and mass allotted for them, and that gauss weapons need enough power packs to fire all available ammunition. Can light and medium weapons be hooked up to a Power Amplifier, even if just for having one less thing to keep track of?


Light and Medium weapons can not be hooked up to a power amp.
Quote:

Do vehicles come with headlights, or do I have to mount a Hand-Held Searchlight or two?


They come with headlights. Searchlights are just more powerful.
Quote:

Why are 'Mech/fighter bays guaranteed extra space, when other vehicles aren't?


Scaffolding, combat drop, recovery equipment.
Quote:

In crew/passenger quarters and infantry bays, how much cargo mass is allowed for personal storage?


0 to 250 kg.
Quote:

Type B Large Naval Template has its bottom Turret space marked with a "3". Should this be a "2", or should there be a "T2" on the pivot point?


It should be "T2".
Quote:

What is the reach of a Manipulator? Could the strength (or reach) of a Manipulator be increased with a proportional increase of mass?


No actual distance given for reach, and add more manipulators if you want more lifting.

But, I think I'll house rule the bit about power amplifiers... and increasing mass for more manipulator strength, since it would take more item slots to add more manipulators.
Gnome76
07/06/05 10:18 PM
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Hey, Cray, I was looking in the credits for CE, and was wondering which of Mike "Southpaw" Miller, Mike Miller, and Michael Miller are you?
CrayModerator
07/07/05 08:42 AM
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The house rule on amplifiers sounds reasonable.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Gnome76
07/10/05 01:01 AM
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Quote:


Quote:

Type B Large Naval Template has its bottom Turret space marked with a "3". Should this be a "2", or should there be a "T2" on the pivot point?


It should be "T2".



This has been revised. Turrets are mountable on the pivot points of Large Naval Vessels, so there should be a "T2" on the pivot. Each hex in the spine of a Large Naval Template can mount turrets, and the one in the pivot point would have a full 360 firing arc.
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