chez
01/13/06 01:57 PM
62.173.81.122
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I have been looking at various sites (FASA and Chaos march) and they seem to make a lot of errors especially on vehicle engine weights.
Can someone confirm for me that a tank's engine rating and weight is the same as that for a mech
eg 300vlar is 19 tons
300XL is 9.5
300ICE is 38 tons
It brings the validity of some of these designs into question especially as I am designing some tank upgrades as a "little surprise"  for our group this weekend.
chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
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Toontje
01/13/06 03:29 PM
84.24.165.226
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IIRC, fusions in tanks have a multiplier of 1.5, compared to 2 for ICE. The best advantage there is energy stuff.
Most programs around do it right tho.
Rather to blow up, then.
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chez
01/14/06 09:43 AM
62.173.81.122
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That's retarded man. 
Some designs have this multiplier applied others don't.
That means some designs are illegal eg all lvl 1 fusion powered tanks.
Whose bright idea was that? 
Whoever it was has changed a basic design principle without thinking it through.
It may even be that this is the right move in an attempt to "balance" the game
Does anyone know the reason why this was done? It doesn't matter to me as I have already built my 100ton 4ERPPC tank using the old rules. I plan to use it like on a computer game when you near the end of a level there is always an "end of level bad guy" who is much harder than everything else you'd seen so far.
I'll try and drop in next week and tell of the carnage 
chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
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Toontje
01/14/06 06:40 PM
84.24.165.226
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If you talk about the old 3025 and 3026, it was not done with the current generation of designers (by hand possibly), so flaws may have creeped in. (Like the hatchetman with and without hatchet accounted for (3 hs difference in the corrected one))
4 ERPPC on a tank is waste, you have 50 tons of heat sinks! (No double heat sinks on tanks). Better would be some missiles and possibly an AC, better all-round firepower and more versatility. LBAC/20X comes to mind, 12 range ac/20 for less tons than 1 ERPPC (including HS = 7+15=22. AC is 14(15?)+8 tons ammo).
Rather to blow up, then.
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Cray
01/15/06 03:30 PM
24.73.50.121
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Quote:
That's retarded man.
Some designs have this multiplier applied others don't.
Only the very, very earliest vehicle designs might've skipped the x1.5 or x2 multiplier for vehicle engines. I think all the TR:3026 vehicles had the correct engine sizes.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Greyslayer
01/15/06 05:25 PM
216.14.198.49
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Quote:
4 ERPPC on a tank is waste, you have 50 tons of heat sinks! (No double heat sinks on tanks). Better would be some missiles and possibly an AC, better all-round firepower and more versatility. LBAC/20X comes to mind, 12 range ac/20 for less tons than 1 ERPPC (including HS = 7+15=22. AC is 14(15?)+8 tons ammo).
This reminds me of an old fav design I had which I called Shrekk Big Gun carrier. Biggest Energy Weapon x 1 (PPC), Biggest Missile Launcher (LRM20), Biggest Autocannon (AC20). The LRM 20 and AC20, even with the heavier turret and required ammo took up less tonnage than the extra 2 PPCs and the 20 required heatsinks.
On another note I think there might be some confusion on vehicle designs. Some vehicles like Hovercraft have suspension factors ie if you were after a hovercraft to go 8/12 and was 35 tons you would normally need an engine rating of 280, but you would take away the suspension factor from the 280 for a 35-ton hovercraft to get the real required engine size. You would then have to ensure that the engine's mass is at least 20% of the vehicle's mass or 7 tons in the above example which would limit you to an ICE engine for a 8/12 at that tonnage (you include the 2xRating for ICE or 1.5xRating for Fusion in the 20% total). Note that is only for hovercraft, while wheeled tanks have suspension factors (far less than hovercraft) there is no required engine mass from memory.
Hope that clears some of the confusion.
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Rick Raisley
01/17/06 09:53 PM
65.5.219.222
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Quote:
I have been looking at various sites (FASA and Chaos march) and they seem to make a lot of errors especially on vehicle engine weights.
Really? Where'd you find FASA's site, as it hasn't existed in years. 
Quote:
Can someone confirm for me that a tank's engine rating and weight is the same as that for a mech
eg 300vlar is 19 tons
300XL is 9.5
300ICE is 38 tons
It brings the validity of some of these designs into question especially as I am designing some tank upgrades as a "little surprise" for our group this weekend.
Nope. Those numbers are all correct.
According to BMR (page 117), a 300 size Fusion engine weighs 19 tons. The VLAR refers to the engine manufacturer, of course, and does not affect its weight.
An XL engine has a mass of half the standard Fusion engine, in this case 9.5 tons. It's on the same page.
An ICE engine (internal combusion - not fusion) has a mass of twice a standard Fusion engine, in this case 38 tons.
It is true that fusion engined vehicles also require shielding and transmission equipment to get the power to the wheels/treads, and that adds 50% to the engine mass. Other than that, vehicle engines are the same weight as 'Mech engines. (Except maybe for the 20% hovercraft thingie.) But the "wrong" numbers you're referring to are, uh, right. ;-)
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chez
01/18/06 05:25 PM
62.173.81.122
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Cheers chaps - that's my bad.
On some of the designs the engine weight is just increased by 50% without any explanation. On other designs they have a separate heading for shielding and suspension. I hadn't noticed that the already increased engine models don't have this extra shielding/suspension factor.
This leads me to another question - If you are using an XL engine do you add 50% and then divide by 2 or is the shielding/suspension thing an entirely separate entity and is not subject to the halving factor of the XL engine?
chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
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Greyslayer
01/18/06 07:01 PM
216.14.198.49
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Quote:
This leads me to another question - If you are using an XL engine do you add 50% and then divide by 2 or is the shielding/suspension thing an entirely separate entity and is not subject to the halving factor of the XL engine?
The shielding is why the XL engine is so much lighter than the standard fusion engine. Its lighter but more bulky and more expensive. Thus the vehicle's xl fusion engine would be xl weight + 50% (or half rounded up to the nearest 0.5 tons in level 2 play of the vehicle standard fusion engine) since you would be using the same fusion shielding as you would already on the XL engine.
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Greyslayer
01/18/06 07:04 PM
216.14.198.49
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Quote:
(Except maybe for the 20% hovercraft thingie.)
This is only a requirement and does not change the shielding of an engine or how much a particular engine weighs at all.
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Cray
01/18/06 10:31 PM
24.73.50.121
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Quote:
This leads me to another question - If you are using an XL engine do you add 50% and then divide by 2 or is the shielding/suspension thing an entirely separate entity and is not subject to the halving factor of the XL engine?
The tranmission weight is half the weight of the engine. Since an XL engine is 50% of a normal fusion engine's weight, the transmission is 25% of the weight of a normal engine (half the weight of the XL engine).
To put that a couple of other ways:
1) An XL engine (plus transmission) on a conventional vehicle is 75% of the weight of a standard fusion engine on a battlemech; or
2) An XL engine (plus transmission) on a conventional vehicle is 50% of the weight of a standard engine (plus transmission) on a conventional vehicle
For example:
* A 300-rated fusion engine on a battlemech is 19 tons
* A 300-rated fusion engine on a conventional vehicle is 28.5 tons
* A 300-rated XL fusion engine is 9.5 tons on a battlemech
* A 300-rated XL fusion engine is 14.25 tons (rounds to 14.5 tons) on a conventional vehicle
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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