NeverSayNever
07/08/07 02:00 PM
195.93.60.134
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Just stumbled upon the following, really interesting article:
"Players Who Suit MUDs":
http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm
At first sight it's entirely off topic (not Nev- or MMORPG-related), but if you dare to take a closer look ...
Any Nev-related déjà-vu feelings  ?
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Dee
07/08/07 02:44 PM
24.224.253.98
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The only feeling I got from looking at that page was a distinct feeling that someone needs to make shorter points. Reading is all fine and dandy, but that many words, string together in useless information bits makes my brain feel like puking.
~Dee
...my bed was on fire once. I blame the gnomes.
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Katrar
07/08/07 03:15 PM
69.178.99.3
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For those that might not know who Richard Bartle is, he's considered one of the formost experts on MMO player interaction, MMO (not just MUD) design, and virtual world sociology. He's also working with an "A-team" of MMO scions on a next gen MMO concept (concept, not game) that though secretive and rather light on published details appears to be creating something like a combination of modern MMORPG, modern MMO graphical social network (such as Second Life), and the veratility of Web 2.0.
The project is called Areae and the people involved so far are:
Raph Koster, mud pioneer, original UO creative director, and (unfortunately) SWG design lead
John Donham, mud pioneer, many SOE projects
Christopher Allen, mud pioneer
Richard Bartle, mud pioneer
Cory Docterow, blog pioneer
Randy Farmer, mud pioneer
Amy Jo Kim, virtual world sociologist, mud pioneer
Its interesting stuff, though not much is known about what exactly this project will look like when it becomes "real".
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NeverSayNever
07/08/07 06:44 PM
195.93.60.134
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Quote:
The only feeling I got from looking at that page was a distinct feeling that someone needs to make shorter points. Reading is all fine and dandy, but that many words, string together in useless information bits makes my brain feel like puking.
~Dee
Okay, I see, very limited attention span, sigh, no problem, the following should help to illustrate one of the player archetypes described in Bartlet's article:
http://www.myextralife.com/archive.php?date=2006-03-06
The brain cell depicted - and the text bubble ("Me want to kill!") right next to it -, at the lower right corner, kind of sums up the essence of the "Killer" player archetype described in Bartlet's article  .
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NeverSayNever
07/08/07 07:08 PM
195.93.60.134
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short quote/excerpt from Bartlet's article:
Quote:
Players use the tools provided by the game to cause distress to (or, in rare circumstances, to help) other players. Where permitted, this usually involves acquiring some weapon and applying it enthusiastically to the persona of another player in the game world.
So, labelling the four player types abstracted, we get: achievers, explorers, socialisers and killers. An easy way to remember these is to consider suits in a conventional pack of cards: achievers are Diamonds (they're always seeking treasure); explorers are Spades (they dig around for information); socialisers are Hearts (they empathise with other players); killers are Clubs (they hit people with them).
Naturally, these areas cross over, and players will often drift between all four, depending on their mood or current playing style. However, my experience having observed players in the light of this research suggests that many (if not most) players do have a primary style, and will only switch to other styles as a (deliberate or subconscious) means to advance their main interest.
intact/complete player base / community = complete set of 'cards' (Diamonds, Hearts, Clubs and Spades) - representing all the different facets / styles of play of a game
incomplete player base / community (e.g. due to the game's rules focusing on only one aspect/facet of the game, for example landwar/FWar, like in Neveron) = incomplete set of 'cards' (Diamonds, Hearts, Clubs and Spades) with a lot of the different facets of a game missing already
If you mix/shuffle a whole, intact set/deck of cards and start playing with the whole, intact set/deck of cards you'll almost always get a very unique new game(-ing experience).
If you mixed/shuffled an incomplete set/deck of cards and started playing with the incomplete set/deck of cards you would most likely end up with a very shallow game(-ing experience), no matter how hard you tried to shuffle the few remaining 'Clubs', sorry, cards, it should always look pretty much the same.
Large player base and a gaming universe which supports a variety of different styles of play = more fun and entertainment for all parties involved, and a much more vibrant community.
Small and/or shrinking player base and a gaming universe which tends to support/favor only one style of play (like in: more war/landwar/FWar) = less fun and entertainment for all (remaining) parties involved, and a much less vibrant community.
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sdog
07/09/07 10:29 AM
139.174.165.206
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maybe the killers got to dominant in neveron. maybe the major game changes WWS announced could give them explorers an advantage again. the specialised killing machines some made out of their empires will suddenly loose their sharpness.
in the light of this article the skillups are much more severe, as there is no way for achievers to improve their skills anymore (like pirates used to).
speaking of pirates i suddenly understand why some people always wanted them back. that's achievers, a type of player that's as far from me as nothing else. i'm more the explorer socialiser type of players.
i think i should write a suggestion.
I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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Katrar
07/09/07 01:20 PM
69.178.99.3
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One thing to remember is the game itself is oriented towards Killers, and to a lesser extent Achievers and Socializers.
Earlier in its history there was more for Achievers and Socializers to enjoy due to the prolific nature of RP and the reality of the social impact upon warfare, but the Explorer archtype for instance doesn't have a clear place on Nev and due to its design probably couldn't have.
The archtypes help to identify player personalities/goals as they are inherent to the individual, but the categories were conceptualized based upon the MUD, which shares very little in common with Neveron. Probably the archtypes would have been defined differently had Nev-style web games been the objective for study.
Just some observations.
Also, anyone interested in Bartle's observations on game theory, he wrote an excellent book Designing Virtual Worlds back in 2003 that is something of a bible in the Mu* world. I happen to disagree with some of his hypotheses but by and large he makes astute and probably accurate assumptions about what makes up the kind of playerbase that is attracted to virtual games/worlds/communties.
For a long time I was deeply involved in the mu* world, and some of my own games are still out there being played and staffed long since I more or less retired from the mu* community in 2002. So I am somewhat chagrined to see mu* theory discussed in these forums. :P
Edited by Katrar (07/09/07 01:26 PM)
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sdog
07/09/07 03:46 PM
139.174.165.206
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i think the explorers are or at least were strong in nev.
it's the people checking updates three times a day. knowing practicaly all change, and think of ways how they can change their gameplay due to those changes.
it's also the type of players who have vast collections of data, analysis, programs and spreadsheets to optimize every action in game.
a prime example was Krait, who made in depth analysis of things.
i consider myself to a lesser degree as an explorer, and i haven't been targeted very often by killer type players. if it happened i usually addopted new ways to fight and trap them, employed killer-killers my socialising strain helped here, or just ignored them and evaded the fight.
i don't quite understand why you're displeasured over this being discussed here? a lot of it seems to apply to most mmog systems/communities as it's social/psychological aspect of the players, not so much the technology.
I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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Katrar
07/09/07 03:59 PM
69.178.99.3
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Chagrined was the wrong word. Amused perhaps would have been better. You couldn't tell from the rest of my post that I was not displeased over the topic?
Also, yes Krait is an excellent example of an Explorer personality on Nev. Unfortunately, we could probably count the number of people that really fit that bill on two hands.
Explorers did exist on Nev, unfortunately the game itself presented absolutely nothing beyond the compilation of statistical knowledge as an explorer type accomplishment.
While achievers act on the world (achieving), explorers typically interact with the world, finding new things to do, discovering easter eggs, learning the lore, and basically getting to know the grid better than anyone else. In this regard explorer archtype activities are limited on Nev.
My earlier point was that the game doesn't really reward Explorers, not that explorers don't play the game. Therefore, it takes someone with a heavily entrenched explorer personality to avoid morphing into an archtype that Nev more easily accomodates.
I think there are probably many people that would lean towards the Explorer archtype on many games that ended up most easily identified as Ahcievers, Socializers or Killers on Nev simply because that was the game.
An example of what I mean: Scrabble Online doesn't really support the play style of an Explorer. But I am sure many Explorers play Scrabble Online.
Edited by Katrar (07/09/07 04:08 PM)
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sdog
07/10/07 09:26 AM
139.174.165.206
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SCNR maybe looking for loopholes and exploitable bugs is the new explorer task on nev? ;-) /SCNR
Quote:
You couldn't tell from the rest of my post that I was not displeased over the topic?
well, that's why i was surprised of the last paragraph, after i looked up what changrined means. never heard it before. :-)
I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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cbtgod
07/10/07 10:44 AM
70.126.44.124
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*raises his arm up bent and barks "chocolate milk tard juice errrrrrrrrrr"*
yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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Marathon
07/10/07 07:51 PM
90.204.151.247
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damn you come out with some weird shit cbt.
but it also makes me laugh lol
i seem to remember a while back you went through a phase of posts containing happy hug songs or something with crazy techno beat pauses and woots or stuff like that...lmao
actually i probably shouldnt have reminded him...
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Arden
07/11/07 07:31 AM
205.56.145.36
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How about you two stop posting / ruining threads etc... This is very applicable to our game here. Enlighten us Kato
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cbtgod
07/11/07 08:23 AM
70.126.44.124
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lol *gives arden a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuug  * yes marathon that was me unlike others i dont take this game to much to heart. its a game and i try to have as much fun in and out of neveron as much as poss life is to short?
yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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NeverSayNever
07/14/07 05:02 PM
195.93.60.134
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Just read another interesting article:
"Why Do You Play?"
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/000777.php
BTW, many other interesting articles at the archives:
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/arch_issue.php
at least if you are interested in the "psychology of mmorpgs" ...
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NeverSayNever
07/16/07 09:14 PM
195.93.60.134
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Looks like I finally stumbled upon what I was really looking for:
"A Model of Player Motivations"
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001298.php?page=1
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sdog
11/11/07 01:31 PM
139.174.165.206
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I've just made the original Bartle test (http://www.guildcafe.com/bartle.php) and was pretty surprised by the result. According to the test i'm mostly a killer.
KSEA
Breakdown: Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 53.33%, Killer 73.33%, Socializer 53.33%
Maybe someone else gets fun results too... just imagine Mattbuck being a killer...
I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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mattbuck
11/11/07 02:39 PM
128.243.220.21
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Breakdown: Achiever 46.67%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 13.33%, Socializer 53.33%
Sorry to ruin it.
Another way to ruin it: those percentages add up to 200....
Edited by mattbuck (11/11/07 02:41 PM)
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NeverSayNever
11/11/07 06:07 PM
78.49.210.161
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Bartle Test ( http://www.guildcafe.com/bartle.php ) results for NeverSayNever:
Quote:
Based on your answers you are ...
ESAK
ESAK players often see the game world as a great stage, full of things to see and people to meet. They love teaming up with people to get to the hard-to-see places, and they relish unique experiences.
Breakdown: Achiever 46.67%, Explorer 66.67%, Killer 33.33%, Socializer 53.33%
"Explorers do it all over"!
http://www.guildcafe.com/images2/Cafe/Bartle/E.png
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NeverSayNever
11/11/07 06:20 PM
78.49.210.161
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shortcuts to the nice pics depicting the player archetypes:
Explorers:
http://www.guildcafe.com/images2/Cafe/Bartle/E.png
Socializers:
http://www.guildcafe.com/images2/Cafe/Bartle/S.png
The beer mug reminds me of Khan Pausanian's drinking habits - and the wolfish hairstyle could fit too ...
Achievers:
http://www.guildcafe.com/images2/Cafe/Bartle/A.png
Killers:
http://www.guildcafe.com/images2/Cafe/Bartle/K.png
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sdog
11/12/07 10:51 AM
139.174.165.206
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@mb the values are normalised to 1 for the total.
never felt as a killer. didn't do it for fun, killed in nev almost only out of necessity.
I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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NeverSayNever
12/18/07 06:55 PM
78.49.80.131
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definetely worth reading (well, at least IMVHO):
"Player Life-Cycle"
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001588.php?page=1
Entry -> Practice -> Mastery -> Burnout -> Recovery
-> Reentry? ...
Any Nev-related déjà-vu feelings / moments?
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NeverSayNever
03/29/09 05:39 PM
78.48.179.161
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just stumbled upon the following article at Nick Yee's site:
"Data on Player Life-Cycles"
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001646.php
more new articles at the archives section as well, for example:
"Content Types"
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001645.php
Just some food for thought.
Have a nice day / night.
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