Karagin
12/16/04 02:43 PM
65.129.166.215
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A friend of mine, Jim Martian, posted this on another web site...
I find it to be interesting though a little lacking in some areas.
http://www.costik.com/spisins.html
Comments anyone?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Gangrene
12/16/04 09:25 PM
24.6.228.14
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I agree, its interesting but definitely lacking. At one point the author tries to blame the entire (supposed) demise of wargaming on the actions of TSR, but then later admits that wargame sales had diminished to the point of not being profitable. Similar crashes in other entertainment markets, specifically videogames, did not result in the death of the artform. Videogames came back, and with a bang. He places too much emphasis on the core group of hardcore gamers, IMO. The reason Avalon Hill stayed around was because it tried to reach a broader audience.
I can see why in 1996 he thought wargames were dead. But looking at the shelves today I think his assesment was premature. Wargamer and the slew of other minis games seems to have kept it alive and kicking, IMO. However, I think his title is right. Hex based wargames are dead.
Gangrene
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Nightward
12/18/04 02:38 AM
203.214.144.231
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Well, if it wasn't before, it is now.
Well, maybe not dead, but stagnating and in dire nead of necromancy.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Gravewalker
12/18/04 11:01 AM
69.213.248.151
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I can't see them as dying. I have recenlty seen two new wargame dedicated stores open in the Dayton area. A group at work plays Warhammer at least once per month and they send the rest of the time putting their armies together. They average in age of around 36 though, so when they die, does the gaming industry die?
Gravewalker
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Gangrene
12/19/04 12:14 AM
24.6.228.14
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Okay, maybe my statement of "alive and kicking" was a bit exaggerated. But I don't think wargames are dead, mainly based on the volume of mini-games merchandise available and how it seems to be growing. Then there are other games such as the new Axis&Allies spinoffs and War! Age of Imperialism. When I go to gaming stores I seem to see a lot more wargaming merchandise than role-playing merchandise (I am including Wizkids games in this category).
On the opposite end, I do think that hex based wargames, which (sadly) includes Battletech, are on their last leg. Hex games just seem to go so slow compared to other wargames.
Gangrene
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Nightward
12/19/04 03:20 AM
203.214.147.183
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Pretty much. The problem with Wargaming is large setup costs and limited instant gratification.
When you start playing BT, you have to fork over for the BMR (or a Boxed Set), some minis, maps, dice, and the whole kit and kaboodle. It's even worse if you want to play something like CrackHammer 40K.
Also, it takes a while to master the rules and find decent opposition.
Meanwhile, a younger potential recruit can spend the same amount of money on CCGs or computer game, which offer much greater instant gratification. CCGs and so on are a great trap- they're cheap to set up in, but you then get trapped in the arms race of expansions if you want to not loose every time you sit down.
Basically, wargames do not convert well any more. Most people who game do so to be with their friends (at least initialy), and only after they're in start looking around. It's how I got into the hobby.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Seo
12/19/04 11:14 PM
156.34.21.8
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I don't think wargaming died. It's still alive, but just a shadow of what it was. Everything else grew while it didn't really go anywhere. To me the big contributer to it's decline is pacing. A standard wargame is something you do when all your friends meet up for a weekend. A session can go for hours and they can sometimes last several sessions. Today people want entertainment to be something they can do in a short sitting.
"...and Wayward will keep telling us how great the feature will be even it does screw the whole neveron community like a Hentai Tentacle Monster screws a Japanese School Girl..."
-Seo
For a nice cash bonus in new empires use the promo code "Seo is God"
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Brandx0
12/22/04 08:49 PM
24.207.43.89
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I think one of the things causing the decline of wargaming, battletech specifically, is the record keeping required. In a modern age of computers, we're getting used to having everything done for us. I know the reason I always play BTech online now is because I don't have to worry about PSRs, BTH, colouring in 800 armour circles, etc, and can focus on the game itself. CCGs provide this, you don't need to record keep, generally you've just got your cards and a few counters, whereas BTech you need a full size sheet of paper chocked to the brim with information in order to play. I'm not saying its a bad thing, but I can definitely agree that I prefer games with less record keeping required.
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Silenced_Sonix
12/28/04 03:54 PM
168.209.97.34
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"Rock ain't dead - it just smells funny" - Barney Simon, The Night Zoo
I think that quote might be applicable here, no?
Evolve or Die
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religon
09/23/05 07:59 PM
170.69.248.21
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Very interesting article.
Wargaming is not what it once was. BattleTech is also in a state of decline. The entertainment market is so fractured that few games of any style or genre have staying power. This is the modern world. With cable, we rarely watch the same TV as our neighbors. We participate in web communities all ove rthe globe with almost noone from our home town there. Games come and go.
I have probably seen 10,000 games for sale in my life. With so little commonality in the product, how can a single game reach critical mass? Perhaps with the exception of Warhammer 40K and d20/Dungeons and Dragons, few games stay on the radar screen. We have some choices...
Play a trendy "Flavor of the Month" game (likely an expensive collectible game)
Play d20 with the sad, sad game mechanics
Play Warhammer 40k with aliens and monsterous thingies
Play our old niche game that plays well but is hard to find other players for (CBT)
Write our own games
None of the choices are perfect. I don't wish to be pessimistic. Enjoy what you have.
I found BattleTech back in college. The youth today do not have that fortune. I am grateful that on occassion I can play a wargame.
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JackGarrity
09/22/06 01:26 AM
71.207.230.120
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I've got to agree with the flow here.. the days of spending weeks setting up the terrain, writing down the specs and loads and capacities(sp)?.. Desiging roles and placements, is gone. now a days no one is going to pop 200+ on materials to build a hex board and terrain or even seriously buy minis, sure MK and Clix offer a way or predones.. but the general flow seems to be away from table top large scale games. Also think of it like this.. someone new to, well battletech is handed that somewhat confusing set of character sheets, 2d6 and if hes lucky hes given a overview of the Houses and CLans, and is told to rol dice and make these into a background while doing it.. DND? you roll some stats, pick abilites and a race, and your done. Battletech is amazing, Mechwarrior, the same but todays instant go gameer is less and less likely to sit down with a game he's going to have to spend days reading up on. Ive been playing battletech since like 1995-6 and theres still a lot of it im hazy on. Wargames rely on background, depth and planning in many cases the more you have, the more you Have.. Now.. is a 'typical' 16year old going to blow say a 50buck allowance on 1-2 books and some little plastic or metal figures.. Just to find out hes going to need Book of X, manual of the X, etc, and Booster pack 1,2,3,4,5 and 6? Or.. is he going to hit the game store and grab some PC or Console game for aronud 30 bucks and pop it in? We're a dying breed my fellow pilots, its sad to say, even if battletech is still around in 5 years it will be far removed from anything many of us will understand along with all the other wargames we remeber from Warhammer through various Historical setting games. Gather yer mechs and your units, times coming to settle in for a long twilight more far reaching then that of the clans.
Greetings Mechwarrior.
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