Silenced_Sonix
12/28/04 03:49 PM
168.209.97.34
|
I have been working on a mercenary outfit, set in the MWDA setting, for something that I would like to write. The main idea was to create a group that would offer their services as an air-support arm to local forces/militias that would like to have a tactical edge over their opponent/s. I know their equipment might seem extravagant by MWDA standards, but these guys and girls are from all over the Sphere, and are only now entering the Republic under contract to Jacob Bannson.
These are the load-out list for their forces:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Small Craft:
1) - NL-42 Battle Taxi (100t) Mr. XXX
2) - NL-42 Battle Taxi (100t) Mr. XXX
Cargo: 100t
DropShips:
1) - Fortress (6000t) "Montsegur"
2) - Okinawa (4500t) "Wurger"
3) - Sassanid (3000t) "Libelle"
Crew:
0) Invader-class JumpShip "Gardermon"
1) Captain Franklin Graff Male
-----------------------------------------------------------
Mechs:
1) - Uller (30t) Daisho Godo Lance 001
2) - Cougar (35t) Melissa Steiger Lance 001
3) - Legionnaire (50t) Karl Ulsten Lance 001
4) - Galahad (60t) Benjamin Korvack Lance 001 Lead (175t)
5) - Puma (35t) Jaime Korvack Lance 002 Lead (175t)
6) - Peregrine (35t) Gheran Croft Lance 002
7) - Pinion (45t) Kaeru Taki Lance 002
8) - Rifleman (60t) Andrew Barkhorn Lance 002
*9 - 12) - Converted to 6 heavy vehicle berths, 13 - 18
Heavy Vehicles:
1) - 4x Heavy APC (WH) 4(20t) (80t) Mechanized transport; independant attachment
2) - 2x Chevalier 2(35t) III - scout lance
- 1x Sprint Scout VTOL 1(10t) (80t) Independant scout
3) - 3x Pinto Attack VTOL 3(30t) (90t) VI - hunter/seeker lance
4) - 1x Morningstar Mobile HQ 1(60t) VII - C3 coordinator
- 1x Pinto Attack VTOL 1(30t) (90t) VI - hunter/seeker lance
5) - 2x Condor 2(50t) (100t) I - assault lance
6) - 2x Condor 2(50t) (100t) I - assault lance
7) - 2x Condor 2(50t) (100t) II - assault lance
8) - 2x Condor 2(50t) (100t) II - assault lance
9) - 2x Vedette (New) 2(50t) (100t) V - escort
10) - 1x Engineering Vehicle 1(40t) VII - engineering support
- 1x SRM Carrier (Old) 1(60t) (100t) VII - SR defense/demolition
11) - 1x Oro (Clan) 1(60t) IV - assault lance
- 1x Heavy APC (TR) 1(20t) (80t) Mechanized transport; independant attachment
12) - 1x Von Luckner K75N 1(75t) IV - assault lance
- 1x Heavy APC (TR) 1(20t) (95t) Mechanized transport; independant attachment
13) - 1x Shoden (Clan) 1(70t) IV - assault lance
- 1x Sprint Scout VTOL 1(10t) (80t) Independant scout
14) - 1x Shoden (Clan) 1(70t) IV - assault lance
- 1x Sprint Scout VTOL 1(10t) (80t) Independant scout
15) - 1x Pilum LRM Carrier 1(70t) V - LR support
- 1x Heavy APC (TR) 1(20t) (90t) Mechanized transport; independant attachment
16) - 1x Pilum LRM Carrier 1(70t) V - LR support
- 1x Heavy APC (TR) 1(20t) (90t) Mechanized transport; independant attachment
17) - 1x Mobile Long Tom 1(55t) Artillery; LR support
- 1x Stygian Hovercraft 1(40t) (95t) III - scout lance
18) - 1x Mobile Long Tom 1(55t) Artillery: LR support
- 1x Stygian Hovercraft 1(40t) (95t) III - scout lance
Infantry:
1) - Foot Platoon Flamer (3t)
2) - Foot Platoon MG (3t)
3) - Foot Platoon MG (3t)
Cargo: 259t
Artillery:
1) - Long Tom III Nose-mounted
Crew:
0) Fortress-class DropShip "Montsegur"
1) Captain Logan Vanderman Male
-----------------------------------------------------------
Aerofighters:
1) - Scytha-B (90t) Ancetius Korvack Lance 001 Lead #1
2) - Jagatai-C (70t) Shiina Takashi Lance 001
3) - Sabutai-Prime (75t) Rall Ulsten Lance 002 Lead #2
4) - Sabutai-B (75t) John Wang Lance 002
5) - Visigoth-B (60t) Tio Langer Lance 003 Lead #3
6) - Visigoth-C (60t) Evan Frey Lance 003
7) - Kirghiz-C (100t) Vaughn Lance 004 Lead #4
8) - Eisensturm EST-R3 (95t) Deidre McAlister Lance 004
9) - Hellcat (60t) Kyle Hepburn Lance 005 Lead #5
10) - Hellcat (60t) Henry Gangerton Lance 005
11) - LX-2 Lancer (50t) Damon Witfield Lance 006 Lead #6
12) - Dagger-Prime (45t) Kenji Horisomo Lance 006
13) - Rogue - 133E (40t) Danny Headman Lance 007 Lead #7
14) - Rogue - 133E (40t) Sandra Jameson Lance 007
15) - Tomahawk (45t) Kurt Weissman Lance 008 Lead #8
16) - Tomahawk (45t) Otto Danziger Lance 008
17) - Troika -3T (65t) Elisa Geller Lance 009 Lead #9
18) - Transit (50t) Charlie Wu Lance 009
Cargo: 325.5t
Crew:
0) Okinawa-class DropShip "Wurger"
1) Captain Liam O'Connell Male
-----------------------------------------------------------
Battle Armor: (75 units)
- in Points (5 units)
1) - Achileus Small Laser Star 001
2) - Achileus Flamer
3) - Achileus Flamer
4) - Cavalier Flamer
5) - Cavalier Small Laser
6) - Purifier ER Small Laser Star 002
7) - Purifier ER Small Laser
8) - Purifier ER Small Laser
9) - IS Standard Flamer
10) - Is Standard MG
11) - Longinus Small Laser, OS-SRM2 Star 003
12) - Grey Death Scout MG
13) - Grey Death Standard MG
14) - Grey Death Standard Small Laser
15) - Kanazuchi Medium Laser, 2 OS-SRM2
Cargo: (50 + 500 + 765) - 150 (for 75 BA units)
= 1165t
Crew:
0) Sassanid-class DropShip "Libelle"
1) Captain Katrina Fletchen Female
-----------------------------------------------------------
That is about the rough of it. First is the JumpShip, and then the three DropShips used by the group. Each DropShip's list of carried units are showed in its section - the Fortress carries the Mechs and vehicles (most of which are lighter vehicles that have been double- or triple-berthed, but since these guys do not worry about rapid deployment, this is not an issue), the Okinawa carries the various fighters, and the Sassanid carries 75 battle-armor units. These guys usually deploy behind friendly lines, use their ground forces for local defense of their base of operation, and then provide support for what-ever faction they happen to be working for at the moment.
Oh, here is the character list:
-----------------------------------------------------------
Characters:
FWL - Free Worlds LEague
FC - FedCom (Steiner)
FS - FedSun (Davion)
FRR - Free Rasalague Republic/Ghost Bear Dominion (source of most of the clan technology)
CC - Capellan Confederation
CSF - Clan Sea Fox
RoS - Republic of the Sphere
TC - Taurian Concordat
Daisho Godo Male DC MCH Uller
Melissa Steiger Female FC MCH Cougar
Jaime Korvack Female FWL MCH Puma
Gheran Croft Male FRR MCH Peregrine
Kaeru Taki Male DC MCH Pinion
Karl Ulsten Male FC MCH Legionnaire
Benjamin Korvack Male FWL MCH Galahad
Andrew Barkhorn Male FS MCH Rifleman
Ancetius Korvack Male FWL AF Scytha-B
Shiina Takashi Female DC AF Jagatai-C
Rall Ulsten Male FC AF Sabutai-Prime
John Wang Male CC AF Sabutai-B
Tio Langer Male FRR AF Visigoth-B
Evan Frey Male FRR AF Visigoth-C
Vaughn Male CSF AF Kirghiz-C Ex-Clan; unBloodnamed
Deidre McAlister Female FC AF Eisensturm EST-R3
Kyle Hepburn Male FWL AF Hellcat
Henry Gangerton Male FWL AF Hellcat
Damon Witfield Male FWL AF LX-2 Lancer
Kenji Horisomo Male DC AF Dagger-Prime
Danny Headman Male FWL AF Rogue -133E Dating S. Jameson
Sandra Jameson Female FWL AF Rogue -133E Dating D. Headman
Kurt Weissman Male FWL AF Tomahawk -53
Otto Danziger Male FWL AF Tomahawk -53
Elisa Geller Female TC AF Troika -3T
Charlie Wu Male CC AF Transit
Franklin Graff Male FWL JSHP Invader
Logan Vanderman Male FWL DSHP Fortress A.k.a. "Captain Van"
Liam O'Connell Male FWL DSHP Okinawa
Katrina Fletchen Female FC DSHP Sassanid
Michael Young Male FWL BA Star 001 "Mike's Maulers"
Timothy Darmouth Male FWL BA Star 002 "Tim's Tormentors"
Ivan Redovski Male FWL BA Star 003 "Ivan's Irregulars"
-----------------------------------------------------------
Any questions, please feel free to ask. Comments would be appreciated. I know the spacing is weird, but it should not be too difficult to decipher.
Edit: Forgot to add - these guys are called the Crimson Cossacks, under command of the Korvack family (Ancetius, Benjamin and Jaime).
Evolve or Die
Edited by Silenced_Sonix (12/28/04 03:50 PM)
|
Nightward
12/28/04 06:10 PM
203.214.144.148
|
Garg.
Overpowered by anyone's standards, friend Sonix.
Despite te airplay that prime-time Merc units (Kell Hounds, Wolf Dragoons, Grey Death Legion etc) get, the idea of starting small and going big almost always meets with disaster. They are the exceptions to the rule.
Most Merc outfits wind up real dead real fast, or belonging to The Company Store.
Merc units owning their own transport arms are incredibly rare- the Grey Death Legion, Kell Hounds, and Black Thorns all got incredibly lucky (ie, Author Fiat). The Eridani Light Horse and Wolf Dragoons always had those assets (coming from the Clans or ELH).
Definately for MechWarrior: Dragonball Age...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
Greyslayer
12/29/04 12:44 PM
216.14.192.234
|
*munch* *munch* *munch* *munch*
Oh sorry *puts cereal away*
My knowledge of the period you are designing this force for is a little lacking, but I would doubt even in this time that full 100% by 360o support would be afforded to any 'starting up' mercenary 'company'.
When forming a unit you have to ask yourself 'What would reasonably want to join my 'command'?'.
The answer to this should be not bloody much. As already pointed out by my learned friend Nightward, Merc units form and die fairly quickly. This means most mechwarriors worth their salt will not join recently formed merc units. Those desparate to join a merc unit are often 'dispossessed', in fact most looking for work are that. Do you have the funds to supply them with mechs? Very unlikely.... if you did it would be a pretty *munch* (more cereal) ordinary mechanism for unit growth:
- oh I just had 70 million c-bills lying around and was wondering what to do with it etc
Even money is not the best way to get good mercs attention. Just because you can buy mechs doesn't make your unit good (good money, bad leadership. More money than sense etc). Successful contracts are what gets their attention so you have to start small with a solid team (lance perhaps), complete a few contracts and hopefully be able to add members to your team over time.
dropships/jumpships/"oh look I have a working mech factory"
Okay, these are common things people need to understand. A union class dropship is worth about 16 Atlases. So how on earth could you start with one of these babies or even any other dropship for that matter? Jumpships are talking well into the billions(?) of c-bills. This is money a small state doesn't even have handy.
Now silly/stupid/completely moronic peoples that design MERCENARY units with mech factories would be a waste of time. Unfortunately *munch* little weenies need to stroke their ego and Fasa/Wizkidz/FanPro have provided past examples of this pathetic powergaming to give people the wrong idea.
Family 'heirloom' mechs, sure. You could be some 'Baronet' with a land-held income or the potential for future income considering you are just a 'Baronet'.
My gripes should hopefully show that just throwing up a fully supported unit is irresponsible, but there is a financial undertone to all this applicable to the Battletech universe.
Hiring Jumpships/Dropships means that you only pay for the time/jumps that you use. No need to look for hard to find parts. No need to look for crew members. No need to pay for personnel that may be sitting idle while you are on a contract. Of course your own troops are more loyal, but ditching a client it not a good financial move for dropship and jumpship units either (afterall they are mercs too).
Starting units should not be just 'I'll have this, that and that'. You either randomly started with a family unit, or a random unit mech or you purchased your mech from a selection of mechs randomly rolled up at a auction for a bidded on value (usually inflated).
Heavy and especially Assault mechs are rare. Research on old tables indicated just how rare (about 5% for assault mechs, *munch* this later blew out to towards 20%... Fasa again).
Of my opinion the unit you showed us is badly 'broken'. Try something ALOT smaller.
The views of myself are just opinions. Please do not get offended by the manner I have presented the information.
Take what I have said with a dose of .... cereal *munch*. 
|
Nightward
12/29/04 05:18 PM
203.214.144.213
|
Other thing is that the whole idea of MW: DA is that the Republic of the Sphere limited access to military technology to reduce the risk of wars breaking out and the destruction they could cause if (when) they actually did.
Combat vessels were decomissioned and stripped of their weapons; 'Mechs were broken down or put into mothballs.
A Merc outfit like this would have been uncommon even in the Days of Yore, let alone MW: DA- especially given what happened to the Wolf Dragoons, Eridani Light Horse, and Northwind Highlanders in that series.
The availability of so much cross-tech equipment still bothers me; the Okinawa is, by 3057, a powerful and rare new ship develooped slowly, built slowly, and used exclusively by the DCMS. NL-42s were developed by and for the DEST.
Fortresses are as rare as all hell, and usually belong to the Lyran Alliance.
The Sassanid is a Clan vessel developed to deploy Elementals.
Pintos are used exclusively by the Com Guard Explorer Corps.
Eisensturm are new LAAF fighters by 3067. They were bought in to replace the Chippewa fighter; I doubt that the LAAF made it so far in that program that they'd have Eisensturm to spare.
And I'm really not a fan of the way Purifier, Achileus, Elemental armour (worn by SPHEROIDS, no less!) and Cavalier armour are deployed by the RoS Armed forces...
Seriously, a Merc outfit would be limited to one Tech base, with maybe a handful of technologies from other places; a rare few Clan 'Mechs, maybe, and a few 'Mechs produced across the border- but definately not flagliners like he Akuma, Ti Ts'ang, and what-have-you.
To be honest, most Periphery nations would give their left nut to have access to a merc outfit like this.
Except that by the time MW: DA occurs, nobody's fought for a long, long time. Presumably this means that the lesser-known and lower-quality Merc units have either folded or been absorbed by larger ones (Legion of the Rising Sun, Team Banzai, GDL, etc).
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
Silenced_Sonix
12/30/04 01:55 PM
168.209.97.34
|
Okay...
Let me try another approach, then: if you guys - Grey and Night - were to be shown this force on paper, what would your first thoughts be (besides the already-stated comments)? I mean force/allegiance-wise - since these guys obviously do not measure up (down?) as mercs, what would you classify them as?
On the MWDA note: judging from the novels, military units are not quite as scarce in and around the Sphere as initial impressions might have been. Most of the novels have been badly written - with the possible exception of A Call to Arms, Fortress of Lies and By Temptations and By War - but as the time has passed since the original HPG failure, there has been a steady rise in military forces, especially Prefecture IV (home to the on-going Liao invasion), and these guys might not be as unlikely as initially thought. After all, in Fortress of Lies, the Cappies send nine DropShips (models unknown) and more than a company of 'Mechs to attack one planet.
However, as you guys pointed out, I am well aware of author-created inconsistencies in the timeline(s), and it was with this in mind that I posted. Also, because I did not want a repeat of some of the existing oddities in MWDA - Jack Farrell (a merc commander) piloting a Clan hundred-tonner, Gus Clancy (a DropShip captain from Fortress of Lies) just happening to own a 16,000t Excalibur-class DropShip - I have already drawn up histories for most of the units in the Cossacks, and can at least elaborate a bit on where they come from and what they did prior to joining the Cossacks. Also note that the Cossacks are not a green unit - by the time they reach Prefecture Iv to give a hand to Bannson, these folks have been touring the Inner Sphere and most of the Periphery for several years, and thus also the mixed histories of their 'Mechs/vehicles/aero-fighters/DropShips/etc.
But please, any and all help is always appreciated.
Evolve or Die
|
Nightward
12/30/04 06:41 PM
203.214.145.241
|
Munchkins.
Seriously. There's way too much House-specific stuff in there for Mercs to have their hands on, not to mention the fact that they have three (!) DropShips- incredibly high-quality DropShips at that.
The most common military transport in the IS is the Union-class.
When I built a Merc unit, I shelled out for some old Buccaneer-Class DropShips. These were originally intended for a military rolee, so it wasn't hard for them to be retrofitted to carry a Lance each of 'Mechs, Tanks, and Battle-Armoured Infantry, along with supplies and their techs. Buccaneers are the most common merchant vessel in the IS, after all.
Honestly, if you have your own DropShip support, it should be limited to Union-Class vessels with maybe a Leopard as a flag vessel. AeroSpace Fighter carriers are rare, with the Leopard CV being the only real option for a Merc unit. Other optins there, like the Okinawa are House-Specific (and the DCMS would never, ever part with one). The other option for AeroSpace carrying duties is the Vengeance, which again is a DCMS special.
Troop transport DropShip of choice for the IS is probably the Condor, though modified Buccaneers would make more sense for a Merc unit.
You should not own your own JumpShip. Ever. The ELH had theirs already, the Kell Hounds Cucalamus (sp?) is tyheirs because Morgan is the Dike of Arc-Royal, not because of the Kell Hound's own finances, and the Wolf Dragoon transport arm was given to them by Clan Wolf. Even the Northwind Highlanders do not have their own JumpShips.
The unit selection is both unlikely and unwieldy for mercenaries. High-survivability, high-intensity designs armed primarily with laser weapons (to limit resupply) and more basic design materials (ditto) should dominate the ranks.
The number of 'Mechs present also seems out of whack for the MW: DA setting, where a more combined-arms apprach seems more favoured. Trade in a bunch of 'Mechs for vehicles (which makes a lot of sense, because Mercs rely more heavily on vehicles and combined arms tactics than Regular forces) and add Infantry support and it becomes more realistic.
AeroSpace Fighters are a bit of a grey area. Nobody ever really cared enugh about ASFs in the past to really develop their role, but some classic designs, such as the Corsair, Stingray, Sparrowhawk, and Stuka would probably dominate Merc ranks.
I'd also add the Chippewa to that list, because the LAAF ditched their Chippewas in favour of the Eisensturm.
Essentially, if you reduce the tech base to around 3058 and eliminate most of the transport arm, you'd look more "realistic".
That said, your Merc unit works for Jacob Bannson. So, go crazy. While you're at it, go and buy some McKenna-Class vessels.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
UncaRat
12/31/04 12:48 AM
172.135.139.121
|
If the time period were near the start of the dark age- maybe, as you say the sub units already existed. But the high level of tech and multiple supply sources are going to be a nightmare! Especialy the clan tech sources.
My guess not a long term viable unit, something the client gathered for his needs, unless a strong backstory can be raised to support an ongoing loyalty.
Then anything could be posible.
|
chez
12/31/04 10:03 AM
62.173.81.122
|
What a great looking unit!! and that in itself is it's IMplausibility. It is so rounded with all the bases covered- a merc unit that has built itself up over time through salvage and shrewd aquisitions would not be like that.
Also it just would not exist in any time frame as any self respecting great house, periphery state or bigger merc unit would have gobbled tthem up if only for their transport assets whose net worth alone must be measured in Billions of C-bills.
There lies an interesting anomaly in BT when dealing with mercenaries. These money soldiers risk life and limb regularly for a few bucks most of which goes on the maintenance of their equipment. what they should do is sell everything and buy a small planet somewhere and retire to a life of luxury. In the case of the Crimson Cossacks maybe a large planet
That said it still makes good reading and if I let my imagination go for a moment ...........*drool* 
STOP IT!!! 
The thing is is that creating units like this is like being caught surfing a naughty girly website. It's embarassing but you know your going to do it again   
HAPPY NEW YEAR
chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
|
Gnome76
12/31/04 10:08 PM
68.0.125.156
|
Off-topic, but...
Quote:
because Morgan is the Dike of Arc-Royal
that's just a nicely chuckle-invoking typo.
|
Nightward
12/31/04 10:24 PM
203.214.146.139
|
Oops. I wasn't paying enough attention when I typed that post, and there are typos everywhere through it. The best one I've ever seen was over at RPG.Net when someone was talking about Islamic practices and how Muslims "feast during Ramadan."
That was great 
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
Silenced_Sonix
01/02/05 03:45 PM
168.209.97.34
|
Thank-ee for all the comments, I will definately work on the Cossacks some more.
Evolve or Die
|
Silenced_Sonix
01/02/05 04:30 PM
168.209.97.34
|
Okay, version two.
One Union-class DropShip:
Bay 1 - 4 BattleMehcs
Bay 2 - 8 BattleMech berths changed to 12 Heavy Vehicle berths, double-bunked as usual (will have to trim off some vehicles then...)
Bay 3 - 2 aerofighters
One Seeker-class DropShip:
Bay 1 - 4 BattleMechs
Bay 2 - 12 Heavy Vehicles
Bay 3 - 10 infantry platoons; 1 battle-armor star
One Leopard CV-class DropShip:
Bay 1 - 3 aerofighters
Bay 2 - 3 aerofighters
Scratch the JumpShip.
New tally:
MCH = 8
HVY VEC = 24
AF = 10
INF = 10
BA = 25 (Cossacks use Clan system for battle-armor)
I essentially lose 8 aerofighters and 50 battle-armor units, but gain a substancial boost in vehicle- and infantry power (as expected from a merc unit).
Comments on version two?
Evolve or Die
|
Nightward
01/02/05 05:00 PM
203.214.145.117
|
Much better, but loose the Clan Battle Armour. Elemental Armour requires a BOD of 5 or 6, and a STR of 5 or 6 as well to operate; if you don't have those physical attributes, the suit tears you apart when you try top operate it. The Clans had to specifically develop the Elemental Phenotype to deal with the massive physical stress imposed by Elemental suits. Even the best and most able IS warriors struggle with the physical toll.
I would suggest Standard or perhaps Longinus-Class Battle Armour for the largest part of the outfit. Longinus suits are really only the Standard armour with a drop-off one-shot SRM-2 added on, which the other powers at the time could easily develop. For the special forces arms, Gray Death Light Scout Armour would be the prime choice.
Stealth Suits should remain solely in the hands of The Powers That Be. I guess maybe one platoon equipped with Infiltrator (but not Infiltrator Mark II) suits wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility, but pusing it further than that is a bit unlikely.
As an aside, the Seeker-Class carries 72 Light Vehicles and 4 Infantry Platoons. The storage spaces for Vehicles is defined by their weight class, and it's hard to squich a 100-ton single tank into the space intended to house two much slimmer Saracens.
I'd keep the Union as is and purchase a Gazelle to carry the conventional supprt. Gazelle-Class vessels are fairly swift and carry 12 Heavy Vehicles and 3 Lights as standard, as well as 4 Infantry Platoons.
Adding a Fury-Class vessel to round things out couldn't hurt, either. They carry 8 Light Vehicles and 4 Infantry Platoons.
The other vehicles would have to be stored in the Cargobays of the outfit's ships, which isn't ideal but is better than nothing.
Finally, only one (maybe two if you're lucky) of the vessels would be outright owned by the Merc unit. The others would be at best part-owned, but more likely sub-contacted Mercenary captains operating under the aegis of your Merc company.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
Silenced_Sonix
01/02/05 06:47 PM
168.209.97.34
|
You must have misunderstood me: the Cossacks use the CLan system in organizing their battle-armor - they do not use Clan suits. I was thinking of something like this:
1x Grey Death Scout point
1x Purifier point
3x Cavalier point (standard IS, but just the Davion version).
As for the Seeker, the site I visited gave the following:
Bay 1 - 35 LT VEC (1800t)
Bay 2 - Cargo (55t)
Bay 3 - 9 INF (45t)
Allowing for refits, customization, and the ever-present threat of having to revert to cargo-hauling to pay the bills, the Seeker's internal space would be shuffled around to maintain the same weight, but just a different set of berths.
- The 1800t for the LT VEC bay is spilt into 4 MCH (600t) and 12 HVY VEC (1200t). They reason I chose Heavy berths is because (like you siad) it is easier to squash a group of smaller vehicles into a big berth than a big one into a small berth. Also, as mentioned before, most of the the vehicles will be triple-berthed to utilize even more space.
- the cargo and infantry bays are joined (100t), and then used to house 10 INF (50t) and 25 BA (50t)
Also, since these guys are mercs, they would not want 'dedicated' DropShips (beyond the obvious Leopard CV), and so that will be the reason for each Spheroid being able to carry a mixture of 'Mechs and vehicles.
As for the DropShips' number, I would rather not stray over three - more than that, and you start having trouble in finding a JumpShip that can take everyone in one go. Also, the idea of DropShips leased to the Cossacks will definatley be incorporated.
Comments?
Evolve or Die
|
Nightward
01/03/05 12:22 AM
203.214.147.120
|
Mixed-and-matched Infantry platoons don't really work too well, though (leaving aside the logical implausibility of having Word of Blake and FedSuns special armour deployed to a Merc outfit). The Light Scout has less armour than the others, and the Purifier won't get its to-hit mods because there is only one of them deployed.
To get any sort of bonuses for deploying a specific type of Battle Armour (such as the Light Scout's Active Probe), you need to field a full unit. Less than four of them won't provide the sensor coverage you need for that bonus.
On top of that, there is no real need to deploy by fives; four is the standard operatinal size of a Platoon in BT for a good reason; the Clans deploy by fives only because of Kerensky's traditions (5 is a really important number for the Clans). No advantage is gained from deploying 5 lots of 4 troops as opposed to 4 lots of 5 troops- except that the more concentrated your force is, the more likely it can be outmaneuvered.
Further, IS APCs do not devote transport space by 5-ton lots, but by the standard, unarmoured infantry tonnage requirments. You can fit a Platoon into 4 tons of cargo space; why create deployment problems by needing 5 tons instead? As an aside, Inner Sphere OmniMechs can only carry four troopers, not five as they lack the CTR handhold.
Finally, it's not logical to have different armour (or primary weapon) types deployed in a single Infantry Platoon, at least not BA-wise (some argument could be made for splitting weapons by squad size if you're using Level 3, to take advantage of stuff like LRM Launchers).
The standard rules, in fact, do not allow for Infantry to be deployed mixed. If you want different types of infantry, go for it; the various types were created to fill a variety of roles, after all. But deploy them the way they're intended to be deployed.
And once again: Mercs wouldn't have accesss to higher-tech outfits like Purifier armour. They were off-the-shelf new in 3067. Despite their presence (often in staggering numbers) in the MW: Dragonball Age novels, they shouldn't have proliferated so quickly and certainly would not fall into Mercenary hands.
If you require Stealth units, the Gray Death Legion possessed a handful of Nighthawk suits, which sounded like rough analogues of Infiltrator armour. Mercs could probably get their hands on those.
Even if high-tech toys like Purifier suits made it to the market, it is a certain bet that they'd be snapped up by standing House Militaries or, at best for Mercs, really large and powerful outfits like the Dragoons or Kell Hounds. An indep unit like this wouldn't be in the running.
As for the DropShips- that's some pretty hefty re-fitting going on there; to redesign the Seeker that way risks upsetting both structural integrity and balance. The problem is that the vehicle berths aren't just spaces inside a vessel, but specially designed cradles. Messing around with them is a bad idea- but you can always carry as much cargo in them as you like, provided it's lashed down properly. Maybe they'd have the resources to refit a single DropShip that way, but if they did they wouldn't convert a Union. Sacrificing space for two 'Mech lances to carry two Vehicle lances instead isn't really a great tradeoff...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
Wraith
01/03/05 01:10 AM
68.67.32.114
|
Regarding modifying dropships:
The Union was introduced in 2708. TRO: 3057 says there are many variants of it. It is plausible that this unit happened to get their hands on one that had, over the course of years, been refitted to carry 12 heavy tanks on its second mech bay instead of the 8 mechs. After all, the second mech bay has a circular walkway that is 50 meters in diameter, and the mech bays are dispersed around it. Since a large part of the footprint of a mech bay is dedicated to the gantrys (as depicted in the artwork), and tanks don't need them, it's not that unreasonable to think that the mech cubicles could be entirely removed and areas to secure tanks be put in their places.
As to the Seeker, TRO: 3057 states right out that its cargo bays are modular. Replace some vehicle bays with mech cubicles.
Also look at the Overlord, over two dozen variants exist.
The thing of dropships is that they can be modified, it takes time and money for a merc unit to do it though. The rules allow for cargo space to be directly converted from one type to another, ie cargo to 'mechs, vehicles to infantry, etc... The rules don't take into account the volume of these items. One ton of steel fits in a box of 48cm per side, but a ton of water would need a box 100cm per side.
It's all up to the gamemaster on what is allowed in converting dropships. The rules allow for a lot to be done, so like everything in BT/MW the GM will make/break it.
-Wraith
|
Silenced_Sonix
01/03/05 03:24 PM
168.209.97.34
|
1 Point = 1 Mech/ 1 Vehicle/ 5 Battle-Armor suits. I thinky you should by now 'get' what I mean.
As for the Purifiers, your point is duly noted. However, since the Cossacks only have 5 of these suits (easily obtained from WoB and Marik before the Jihad, even easier afterwards with the scattering of the WoB forces), I do not think it too improbable. Given the fact that I will be adding fluff to explain their existence in the Cossacks, they are currently the least of troubles.
As for using sets of 5 - their Seeker devotes 50 tons to battle-armor space, which, at 2 tons per suit, comes to 25 suits. However...
Looking at it now, I realize that using four groups of four troopers each will work better, as the additional space and tonnage would then be devoted to spares and their equipment. Since these guys will be operating with no gaurantee for resupply, it would be logical for them to be very protective over the suits.
As for the DropShips: Wraith was kind enough to state exactly what I had been meaning to say. The Cossacks did not do most/all of these refits themselves - as most of the ships will be hundreds of years old, the refits would have been done over the ages, and by the time the Cossacks got them, they would have been pretty close to what the mercs wanted/needed. Now, instead of having the Union carry all of the 'Mechs and the Seeker all of the vehicles, each carries a mixed lot, which is far more appropriate to the merc's 'Jack-of-all-trades' way of thinking. The reason for the Union's refit is also due to the fact that the Cossacks do not have twelve Mechs, and would rather use the additioanl space to carry more...
Hmm... This is awkward now. I just realized: if I was a merc, and I went into combat knowing that I might be coming back with captured material, would I rather have open Mech bays available, or open vehicle bays? From that angle, it would be logical for the Cossacks to have open 'Mech berths to store captured 'Mechs (hell, even UtilityMechs are better than nothing!), as any captured designs which they do not need could just as easily be sold to some other customers, while those they decide to keep would then take up one of the previously-empty berths.
I apologize for the confused nature of the post, but the ideas just kept on coming as I wrote. New plan: the Union stays the same, while the 36 light vehicle bays in the Seeker are converted to 18 heavy vehicle bays. The chances of losing a vehicle being higher than losing a Mech, any captured vehicles would simply go into bays vacated by destroyed units.
I apologize again for the confusion.
Evolve or Die
|
Silenced_Sonix
01/03/05 04:19 PM
168.209.97.34
|
Version Three:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crew:
0) Union-class DropShip "Gadermon"
1) Captain Liam O'Connell Male
Aerofighters:
1) - Scytha-B (90t) Ancetius Korvack Lance 001 Lead #1
2) - Jagatai-C (70t) Shiina Takashi Lance 001
Mechs:
1) - Puma (35t) Jaime Korvack Lance 001 Lead #1 (175t)
2) - Peregrine (35t) Gheran Croft Lance 001
3) - Pinion (45t) Kaeru Taki Lance 001
4) - Rifleman (60t) Andrew Barkhorn Lance 001
5) - Uller (30t) Daisho Godo Lance 002
6) - Cougar (35t) Melissa Steiger Lance 002
7) - Legionnaire (50t) Karl Ulsten Lance 002
8) - Galahad (60t) Benjamin Korvack Lance 002 Lead #2 (175t)
*9 - 12) - Currently vacant
Cargo: 30.5t
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crew:
0) Seeker-class DropShip "Montsegur"
1) Captain Logan Vandermann Male
Light Vehicles:
*1 - 36) - Converted to 18 heavy vehicle berths, 1 - 18
Heavy Vehicles:
1) - 4x Heavy APC (WH) 4(20t) (80t) Mechanized transport; independant attachment
2) - 2x Chevalier 2(35t) III - scout lance
- 1x Sprint Scout VTOL 1(10t) (80t) Independant scout
3) - 3x Pinto Attack VTOL 3(30t) (90t) VI - hunter/seeker lance
4) - 1x Morningstar Mobile HQ 1(60t) VII - C3 coordinator
- 1x Pinto Attack VTOL 1(30t) (90t) VI - hunter/seeker lance
5) - 2x Condor 2(50t) (100t) I - assault lance
6) - 2x Condor 2(50t) (100t) I - assault lance
7) - 2x Condor 2(50t) (100t) II - assault lance
8) - 2x Condor 2(50t) (100t) II - assault lance
9) - 2x Vedette (New) 2(50t) (100t) V - escort
10) - 1x Engineering Vehicle 1(40t) VII - engineering support
- 1x SRM Carrier (Old) 1(60t) (100t) VII - SR defense/demolition
11) - 1x Oro (Clan) 1(60t) IV - assault lance
- 1x Heavy APC (TR) 1(20t) (80t) Mechanized transport; independant attachment
12) - 1x Von Luckner K75N 1(75t) IV - assault lance
- 1x Heavy APC (TR) 1(20t) (95t) Mechanized transport; independant attachment
13) - 1x Shoden (Clan) 1(70t) IV - assault lance
- 1x Sprint Scout VTOL 1(10t) (80t) Independant scout
14) - 1x Shoden (Clan) 1(70t) IV - assault lance
- 1x Sprint Scout VTOL 1(10t) (80t) Independant scout
15) - 1x Pilum LRM Carrier 1(70t) V - LR support
- 1x Heavy APC (TR) 1(20t) (90t) Mechanized transport; independant attachment
16) - 1x Pilum LRM Carrier 1(70t) V - LR support
- 1x Heavy APC (TR) 1(20t) (90t) Mechanized transport; independant attachment
17) - 1x Mobile Long Tom 1(55t) Artillery; LR support
- 1x Stygian Hovercraft 1(40t) (95t) III - scout lance
18) - 1x Mobile Long Tom 1(55t) Artillery: LR support
- 1x Stygian Hovercraft 1(40t) (95t) III - scout lance
Infantry:
1) - Foot Platoon Rifle (3t)
2) - Foot Platoon Rifle (3t)
3) - Foot Platoon Rifle (3t)
4) - Foot Platoon Rifle (3t)
5) - Foot Platoon Flamer (3t)
6) - Foot Platoon Flamer (3t)
7) - Foot Platoon Flamer (3t)
8) - Foot Platoon MG (3t)
9) - Foot Platoon MG (3t)
10) - Foot Platoon SRM (3t)
Battle Armor:
1 - 4) - Purifier Squad ER Small Laser Squad 001 Michael Young
5 - 8) - Cavalier Squad Small Laser Squad 002
9 - 12) - Cavalier Squad Small Laser Squad 003
13 - 16) - Cavalier Squad MG Squad 004
17 - 20) - Cavalier Squad Flamer Squad 005
*21 - 25) - Carrying spares and maintenace equipment
Cargo: 0t
* 50t Converted to 25 Battle-armor berths, 1 - 25
* 5t Converted to 1 infantry berth, 10
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crew:
0) Leopard CV-class DropShip "Wurger"
1) Captain Katrina Fletchen Female
Aerofighters:
1) - Visigoth-B (60t) Tio Langer Lance 002 Lead #2
2) - Visigoth-C (60t) Evan Frey Lance 002
3) - LX-2 Lancer (50t) Damon Witfield Lance 003 Lead #3
4) - Dagge-Prime (45t) Kenji Horisomo Lance 003
5) - Troika -3T (65t) Elisa Geller Lance 004 Lead #4
6) - Tomahawk (45t) Kurt Weissman Lance 004
Cargo: 66.5t
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay, any more comments from the guys that know? Grey? Night?
PS: Sorry about the Krebs thing, Night - I did not mean to step on your toes. I just tried to see how much of it I could remember myself. You, however, have the degree to back it all up. Sorry!
On a side note: if I had a force consisting of eight 'Mechs and a variety of light and heavy vehicles (no aerofighters), all to be transported by two DropShips only, which two DropShips would work best?
Evolve or Die
Edited by Silenced_Sonix (01/03/05 06:47 PM)
|
Nightward
01/05/05 04:55 PM
203.214.144.244
|
Without a doubt, a Union and a Gazelle.
The unit is starting to look better- except for all the Clan Tech and Com Guard gear. Please loose the Clan machinery and the Pintos.
IS forces had a hard time getting their hand on OmniMechs, let alone OmniFighters. The Clan Vehicles you've got are support units, which are usually deployed only by Solhama Clusters in the Homeworlds.
Limit it to IS 3058 with low-end 3060 options and it will look much better.
I'd recommend units like the Archer, Grashopper, Thunderbolt, [Wolverine, Shadow Hawk and Griffin for 'Merc units- good, solid fighters with a balanced weapons mix and excellent flexibility. Maybe support them with a Banshee or a BattleMaster from the assualt ranks, with something like a Raven as the scout 'Mech.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
Silenced_Sonix
01/05/05 05:10 PM
168.209.97.34
|
Memory serving, the Clan vehicles I have are from the Jade Falcon and Ghost Bear occupation zone - of the Homeworlds I am not so sure.
The fighters are along the line of fighters that were taken as spoils of war, traded down through various hands, and then ended up with their current pilots, who eloped and joined the mercenaries' ranks when given the chance.
The Gazelle is too light for what I need - it does not have the necessary cargo capacities, and makes no provision for aerofighters (which are key to these guys).
The ComStar/ComGuard gear will be explained through the Word of Blake Jihad background - WoB forces using ComStar equipment; WoB being defeated/routed/surrendering; WoB equipment assimilated into planetery militia ranks; militia crews joining the mercs.
I will definately look at changing the 'Mech profiles, but the reason for the current Clan-heavy loadout is this: following the logic of Stone's reforms ("'Mechs for ploughs"-effect), most commanders would rather retire an old Sphere 'Mech than a high-tech Clan one. Percentage-wise, this means that the number of Clan 'Mechs would increase, thus allowing for their greater proliferation.
That is about the rough of it, but please feel free to help/advise some more.
Evolve or Die
|
Nightward
01/05/05 06:41 PM
203.214.144.244
|
How convinent.
Seriously, mercs scrable to survive. The unit is still way too good.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
Greyslayer
01/06/05 09:05 AM
216.14.192.234
|
Quote:
Memory serving, the Clan vehicles I have are from the Jade Falcon and Ghost Bear occupation zone - of the Homeworlds I am not so sure.
The fighters are along the line of fighters that were taken as spoils of war, traded down through various hands, and then ended up with their current pilots, who eloped and joined the mercenaries' ranks when given the chance.
They eloped to join a hodge-podge of troops. Let me guess they are super-elite pilots with special skills... BAH.
So where is your supplier? Clan equipment doesn't repair itself (yet). Claiming that you salvaged it doesn't make it good. Contracts don't always offer salvage rights (or even exchange rights at times) and this doesn't help you keep them maintained. After a couple of contracts those units would end up expensive lemons. Its best off to sell them (in the case of an expensive unit like a Mad Cat or Daishi you could buy good part of a company of lesser IS 3025 mechs).
Quote:
The Gazelle is too light for what I need - it does not have the necessary cargo capacities, and makes no provision for aerofighters (which are key to these guys).
Oh the joy of being able to pick and choose the dropships you have, struth, why not customise them while your at it *shakes head*
Quote:
The ComStar/ComGuard gear will be explained through the Word of Blake Jihad background - WoB forces using ComStar equipment; WoB being defeated/routed/surrendering; WoB equipment assimilated into planetery militia ranks; militia crews joining the mercs.
Militia may not own their own equipment (given the explanation very likely to be the case. They haven't had hundreds of years to gain ownership of the vehicles as what was the case in the 3025 period). As such 'crossing over' could quite likely cause issues for your unit in the future eg to be blacklisted by the FWL.
Quote:
I will definately look at changing the 'Mech profiles, but the reason for the current Clan-heavy loadout is this: following the logic of Stone's reforms ("'Mechs for ploughs"-effect), most commanders would rather retire an old Sphere 'Mech than a high-tech Clan one. Percentage-wise, this means that the number of Clan 'Mechs would increase, thus allowing for their greater proliferation.
Unless of course they couldn't maintain them at all. Clan qualified techs and equipment is very hard to find even dare I say in the 3060s, ESPECIALLY for mercs.
That is about the rough of it, but please feel free to help/advise some more.
I don't have enough time in the day to give you all the advice you need. To be a successful mercenary is not necessarily he with the best toys (that is just the munch slogan), but the ability to use what you have got. You have tried to cover everything with equipment without a shred of tactical or strategic understanding of the problems trying to so would cause.
This is the reason why people should start out with a very small force (lance of mechs or vehicles etc) and work their way up from that. They would probably gain an understanding of logistics and help the commander decide what type of contracts they really want to go for eg Planetary Assault would stress your force since deployment of large % of vehicles in a force is fairly slow. your force is too expensive to keep on garrison duty as well...
|
Greyslayer
01/06/05 12:35 PM
216.14.192.234
|
I've used systems they have had in the past (Merc FM for one) to make completely 'broken' units.
I designed a unit from one character. Took his skills to 1 gunnery and 2 piloting then gave him a heap of skills thus improving his (forgotten the points, they were used to recruit special characters etc) points to 11 by spending gunnery and piloting back to 5 and 6 respectively.
I could now purchased 11 special NPCs thus bypassing most of the random stuff and made 11 1 gunnery and 2 piloting guys. Due to how 'elite' the unit was I automatically could roll on the 'B' table and I even rolled up a Goshawk that went to the commander. It was a dodgey company for 3058.
After that effort I returned back to myself forming the 'Jackals Harrassers'. A medium/light lance that among many of its victories included a campaign against a dug in battalion (company mechs, a couple of companies of tanks and a couple of battalions of infantry. They also had 2 long toms, in level 3 these babies are nastier. All up was quite a good victory though to tell the truth I had 5 mechs at the time and a 6th was liason but that unit died in the second fight... enemy vet hunchback put an ac20 through the head). I retired the unit after the only contracts I could get at the time were long term garrisons, I even took a 1 year cadre duty before that as I couldn't even roll up pirate hunting.
In the future I probably wouldn't mind seeing if I could get a company of whitworths up and running, would only take 36 million c-bills plus the money to drag pilots in to command them . Of course finding 12 Whitworths would take a fair while, they don't get sold in lots of 12. I could probably make do beating up your Kuritans and fielding Panthers until I could upgrade to Whitworths
|
Nightward
01/06/05 04:46 PM
203.214.145.147
|
Indeed. The KISS principle should be engraved on every Merc's forehead.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
Greyslayer
01/07/05 09:16 AM
216.14.192.234
|
Kiss principle does help keep Murphy's Law at bay.
|
Nightward
01/07/05 05:14 PM
203.214.144.86
|
Ah, yes.
"If there is more than one way of doing things, and one of those ways will result in a catastrophe, that is the way it will be done."
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
Silenced_Sonix
01/07/05 05:26 PM
168.209.97.34
|
Just to make my point clear here (not sure if you have understood this): these guys are a fictional unit to be used in a story that I am going to write. They will not be used in any real CBT games, and will be subject to my will and whims (as author) for the duration of the story.
That said, I am still also in agreement with what has been said about these guys. I guess posting version four now would be a good idea (they sure have changed so far!).
One Union-class DropShip:
Bay 1: 4 MCH (default)
Bay 2: 12 HVY VEC (refit)
Bay 3: 2 AF (default)
One Intruder-class DropShip:
Bay 1: 4 INF (default)
Bay 2: 1 AF (default)
Bay 3: Cargo (1056t) (default)
The 'Mechs would be a Firestarter, aClint, a Sentinel and a Legionnaire. The three fighters would be a Visigoth, a THK-53 Tomahawk and a F90 Stingray. The vehicles would be a mixture of mainly Condors, an APC or two, some LRM and SRM carriers, a VTOL or two and perhaps some artillery (Long Tom or Sniper). I am not too sure what vehicles the mercs use, so some help there too would be appreciated.
Thanks for all the feedback, it is really helping me a lot to build up the correct image for these guys. More is, as ever, always welcome.
Evolve or Die
|
Wraith
01/07/05 05:54 PM
129.101.55.124
|
Big thing about vehicles: what are you going to use them for?
Unless you're going to have them ambush or defend, I'd avoid the missile carriers. They're too fragile for most merc units, with such little armor. Manticores and Strikers are what I'd use, since they both have SRM and LRM capability, and the Manticores have some energy-based punch as well. I really like the attack hovercraft, Drillson, Fulcrum, and J.Edgar. They're fast, so hard to hit, and pack a decent punch. My group uses the lvl 3 vehicle crit chart, so they also survive a lot longer 
-Wraith
|
Silenced_Sonix
01/07/05 06:10 PM
168.209.97.34
|
Thank-ee, will look at those designs you mentioned.
The LRM carriers are supposed to be for artillery support, mainly via indirect fire with the aid of closer forces. Beyond that, the vehicles should just be able to keep up with the 'Mechs, and act generally... merc-like.
Evolve or Die
|
Nightward
01/08/05 01:53 AM
203.214.144.184
|
I'd probably avoid the Clint, as it sucks and is supposedly a rare machine. The Sentinel is a ComGaurd machine (sometimes appears in the DCMS) and is likewise pretty unimpressive.
I'd upgrade the Firestarter to a FS9-O Firestarter OmniMech and use a Shadow Hawk in place of the Sentinel (similar role and weapons profile) and field either a Vindicator or Wolfhound (guess which one I'd recommend ). The Legionaire, IIRC is some 52-ton mobile R-A/C-5; I'd probably use a Dervish or a Trebuchet; the unit is severely lacking in missile support.
Other good choices for vehicles in a Merc outfit are Shreck PPC Carriers, Vedette, and Bulldog tanks. Especially Bulldogs; those things are great.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
|
|
|
Extra information
|
0 registered and 43 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Nic Jansma, Cray, Frabby, BobTheZombie
Print Topic
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Topic views: 22650
|
|
|
|
|
|
|