wargolem
01/18/05 02:51 AM
68.191.105.54
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ive read most of the novels up to the clan defeat at tukkyad (cant spell it sorry) can anyone fill me in on what the heck has happened i just got through with exedus road volume 1 and heard something about word of blake blowing up all the friggin HGP's can someone point me to a website where they have an up to date history ?
thanks,
wargolem
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Nightward
01/18/05 03:42 AM
203.214.148.16
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Quick rundown:
The newly formed Star League put the smackdown on Clan Smoke Jaguar, annihilating them entirely. Following this, the IS fought a Trial of Refusal against the Invasion, making the Truce of Tukayyid permanent.
Only Clan Wolf (abstaining from the Vote, and not defeated in the Trial) can still pursue the invasion.
Back in the IS, Katherine Steiner-Davion has been monkeying around and is charge of both halves of the FedCom. Victor puts the smackdown on her.
Katherine goes into exile with Vlad Ward.
I stopped paying attention at that point, because thext plot arc involves the obscenity that was the Word of Blake Jihad 
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Cray
01/18/05 07:38 AM
147.160.136.10
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Quote:
ive read most of the novels up to the clan defeat at tukkyad (cant spell it sorry) can anyone fill me in on what the heck has happened i just got through with exedus road volume 1 and heard something about word of blake blowing up all the friggin HGP's can someone point me to a website where they have an up to date history ?
www.classicbattletech.com
www.wizkidsgames.com/mechwarrior/comstar/
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
01/18/05 09:24 AM
65.132.126.91
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Well FASA went out of business, WizKids the folks who make MageKnight bought the BT rights and turned it into a click based game like MageKnight, then taking, if you believe that FASA had the Word of Blake Jihad in the works prior to their folding, the story/plot that in about 3 years after 3067ish (about the current date for the game timeline) the WoB attacks all of the IS and hits HPGs and grabs a bunch of worlds around Terra and nukes a lot of other planets in both Houses around them and the Clans. All of this with out anyone in the Inner Sphere even know that this was going to happen and no one have any clue that the WoB was creating a massive hidden army and fleet and was able to fund it and supply it and train it without a single House finding out or even having someone find out. Then the IS goes after them and everything changes. This superman named Stone comes up from no where, takes over the folks fighting the Blakist and beats then easily, and then sets himself up as a new Terran Hegemony called the Republic of the Sphere, he then buys up all the mechs that mercs and private individualls own in his new country and this some how causes (don't ask me how this would actually work) a massive boost to the Republic's economy and thus the other Houses and Clans have to take similar messaures. Then after about 50 or so years, give or take a 10 years the Republic starts to fall apart and everyone wants a piece of it, and mechs are rare and now there are work mechs that have weapons on them. More like Mad Maxs meets BT.
So that a quick sum up of things and if you want to know more about the events you can read the MECHWARRIOR novels or visit Wiz Kids webpage to get the above in better detail and all.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
01/18/05 05:04 PM
203.214.146.48
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Did I mention my LIMITLESS HATE of the MW: DA storyline?
Sometimes, I get so wrapped up in my RAGE that I forget...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Spartan
01/19/05 01:54 PM
67.64.118.86
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I think you did. But just to be safe do so again. 
BTW, I'd like to express my disdain for said story line. For me, the Battletech storyline more or less ended after the destruction of Clan Smoke Jaguar. (Or, depending upon my mood, the Battle of Tukkayid)
Spartan
We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.
(I refer you to what Nightward said)
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Karagin
01/19/05 02:46 PM
65.146.75.198
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I can understand your points and I have a few friends who won't use anything beyond the TR3055 as far as mechs go and some who only play 3025 era.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Iceman
01/19/05 03:10 PM
213.13.25.87
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BEFORE Tukayyid, yes. 
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Greyslayer
01/19/05 03:37 PM
216.14.192.234
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Quote:
I can understand your points and I have a few friends who won't use anything beyond the TR3055 as far as mechs go and some who only play 3025 era.
We have pretty much gone back to tourneys based on 3025 technology here. Great battles without the 'developed by 12 year olds for 12 year olds' mentality of the later stuff.
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Karagin
01/19/05 04:39 PM
65.132.126.23
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I hear you there. I have had better luck with similar fights and less of the must win no matter what attaitude. The one thing I hate about playing BT at conventions is that the younger kids have to be the Clan side and if they can't then they run their mech or mechs right out and up close with the other players and last all of ten minutes. Thus leaving the rest of us in a bind.
So yes the 12 year old for 12 year old idea is something that could go away.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
01/20/05 02:39 AM
203.214.145.15
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That's what happens when 12-year-olds play.
Everyone knows Clan units are for sniping, unless you've got Heavy Lasers. Or ATMS 
I think the new tech is fine. Adds yet another dimension to the game, when you use stock 'Mechs (which are, for the most part, still sub-optimal).
Some combos are pretty sick, though. Targeting Computer + C3 sort of springs to mind...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Greyslayer
01/20/05 06:03 AM
203.61.72.204
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Quote:
I hear you there. I have had better luck with similar fights and less of the must win no matter what attaitude. The one thing I hate about playing BT at conventions is that the younger kids have to be the Clan side and if they can't then they run their mech or mechs right out and up close with the other players and last all of ten minutes. Thus leaving the rest of us in a bind.
So yes the 12 year old for 12 year old idea is something that could go away.
My goodness this description sounds just like a young Nightward *evil grin*
Except of course his firm belief that he should be allowed to field custom MadCats, lol 
(just getting ole nightward all worked up so it will make the next tourney 'interesting' ).
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Karagin
01/20/05 11:32 AM
65.129.166.27
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True...but even custom mechs that aren't munckin uber mechs can be decent and allow for interesting fights. The new tech doesn't change the play of the game, what it does is force follks to learn tactics and less of the run up and blast each other at three and four hexes. That isn't BT that is the sub-game in the BT universe called Solaris VII.
Playing against kids who can't win without Targ+Pulse 2 gunnery pilots in Clan machines is boring and a waste of time. I have seen folks at cons leave a game once it's clear that we have those kinds of players and the person running the game is really ticked because what was suppose to be fun has turned into something that is not fun any more.
There are two guys who come to the con in Ann Arbor every year and they have to play Clan tech. If they don't get to be on that side they either leave or get themselves killed in three turns. And if they get on the Clan side then they have to have the mech with the pulse lasers or the targeting computers etc...winning is all there is to them. To the rest of us it's about having fun.
To bad TPTB haven't ruled Target Computers non-tourenment legal...that would make it easier to control some of the munchkins and other power gammers.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
01/20/05 03:41 PM
216.14.192.234
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If a tourney does include clan technology then probably the old system of 3 separate components to the tourney would still work best (3025,IS level 2, clan level 2). As long as the bloke organising it or the person calculating points understands the scoring system *grumbles*.
A system like BV or a handicapping system in tonnage would allow the person to field clan units if they want (probably get chewed up by a 3025 player with mass armour or some such). BV does struggle in level 2 technology so the games would rarely be even.
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Wraith
01/20/05 04:51 PM
129.101.55.124
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The big failing of the BV system is that it only cares about alpha-striking. Mechs setup to fire either long-range or short-range weapons and be fine on heat have very low BVs compared to those loaded with massive amounts of HS.
-Wraith
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Nightward
01/20/05 05:26 PM
203.214.146.132
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I dunno. BV seems to work OK, but as with everything there are still flaws. As Scott mentioned above, though, BV does best when it's limited by era- one of his long-standing arguments against BV is that the system rates the Griffin of 3025 as more dangerous than the Waith of 3055.
I don't get it, either.
Tonnage works well at tournaments, since everyone goes for the best options at the avalable tonnage. The last one we played was some ridiculously high amount of tons (260, IIRC) but everyone started off with Green warriors. Piloting took 5 tons to upgrade, Gunnery was 5 tons in a Light unit, 10 tons in a Medium, 15 in a Heavy, and 20 for an Assualt.
This being the case, I expected hordes of light, fast, super-elite 'Mechs and went in with two Veterans in a Banshee 3S and an Archer 2S. I had a Savannah Master to chew up lost Initiative as well.
The expected hordes of super-elite pilots were, of course, nowhere to be found. Everyone else at the tournament had jumped to the same conclusion, so it was like the battle of the behemoths. Quite amusing, actually.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Greyslayer
01/20/05 09:04 PM
216.14.192.234
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Quote:
The expected hordes of super-elite pilots were, of course, nowhere to be found. Everyone else at the tournament had jumped to the same conclusion, so it was like the battle of the behemoths. Quite amusing, actually.
1 super-elite griffin and a horde of green and reg light hovercraft thankyou very much and didn't that surprise some people .
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Nightward
01/21/05 12:53 AM
203.214.146.131
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It was what I expected everyone to take. I thought "A-ha! I shall ruin their plot by fielding a force that can annihilate them at both long and short ranges, thereby forcing them to make fatal errors!"
It was a bit hit and miss. When I lost, it tended to be an utter demolition. When I won, it was the same.
Pity you didn't come back for the Sunday; I was looking forward to my chance to be PWNED.
Not.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
01/21/05 01:19 AM
65.129.167.211
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I find that if you take the time to look at what you would like to see in a fight and try to balance out the tonnage you get interesting games.
For example last Sunday I set up the following fight:
Clans side:
Mad Cat Prime P:5 G:4 Tons 75
Koshi Prime P:4 G:4 tons 25
Koshi B P:5 G4: tons 25
Harrier A P:3 G:3 tons 55
total tonnage: 180
(Note the Harrier A was home made Omni. I will post the stats later on.)
IS Side:
Trebuchet P:4 G:4 50 tons 3025 tech
Rifleman MFUK mech P:5 G:3 60 tons level 1 tech
Anvil 6M MFUK mech P:5 G:4 60 tons 3050 tech
Enforcer P:4 G:3 50 tons 3025 tech
Orion P:5 G:4 75 tons 3025 tech
Total tonnage: 295
Using the old Combat Values (since all the sheets had those) I got the following for totals.
Clan side:
13,536
IS Side:
14,229
The fight lasted 22 turns and the IS won by completing it's objective of getting a satilitte memory core. They took out all but the Mad Cat and lost the Orion and the Enforcer died as well. The rest of their force was beat up.
I will post the whole scenario next week and if anyone would like to fight it out and see if they get a different out come can do so. But the point here is I put this together in under 20 mintues, randomly picked the mechs and skills and then came up with a scenario and off we went to play. Balanced it seemed and everyone playing thought the whole fight well thought out and somewhat of a challenge and not a push over as it could have been.
So going mostly off of tonnage and trying to give each side equal firepower led to a more balanced fight then some of the offical scenarios or tournement battles I have seen in a long time
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/21/05 01:24 AM
65.129.167.211
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Quote:
The big failing of the BV system is that it only cares about alpha-striking. Mechs setup to fire either long-range or short-range weapons and be fine on heat have very low BVs compared to those loaded with massive amounts of HS.
Which leads to the mentality of running up to three hexes and blasting away at each other. That's not Battletech. Hell I am not sure what game that is to be honest. I do my best to bring down players who do that in games I run and I have seen others in several tourney games at cons turn on folks who do that. Either in the game itself or verbally rip them apart.
The whole idea of Alpha strikes could be something that had a place but like a lot of other things, it was turned into something that most dislike and won't use. All because of the video games, where that tactic (if you can call it that) is so easy to use and the computer can't fight back against it. And if one looks hard enough one will find that the mechs that have the BV and are Alpha Strikers are a lot of the times the same ones with Clan Targ Pulse Combo and enough heat sinks to fire all day long.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Gangrene
01/21/05 01:47 AM
24.6.228.14
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I agree. I gave up following the storyline a little over a year ago because the writing was terrible and the direction seemed like a collection of cliche sci-fi elements.
For me Tukayid (sp?) was the high point of the storyline. After that everything went downhill, especially with stupid characters like Victor.
Gangrene
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