Karagin
02/04/05 12:19 PM
65.129.167.217
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Okay here is one that I think we can cover in detail.
Which would you go with on a 45 ton mech? And why? Please give your reasoning that covers what you see using the weapons for on the mech as well as how to cover the heat and the overall need.
Looking forward to the thoughts and such on this one.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Wraith
02/04/05 01:46 PM
68.67.32.114
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ClanTech or IS? What movement are you looking for?
For IS, moving 6/9/6, I would either go 1 ER-PPC, with backup weapons, or two ER-LL with some heatsinks. With standard armor and internal, XL engine, you have 14 tons free. So you could put on 2 ER-PPC, but then have bad heat issues. Using 2 ER-LL with 14 DHS lets you snipe pretty well, jumping 6 only overheats you by 2. A single ER-PPC lets you snipe, and then have some MLs for in-close work, it would give a more well-rounded mech, like the PXH-6D. PXH-3M is a good example of 2 ER-LL on a 45 tonner.
For Clan, I would use 2 ER-LL for the range factor. Especially if you are going to be facing IS opponents, that range 25 is so useful. The thing of Clan weapons is that the PPCs have a better heat/damage ratio. Using Ferro and Endo lets you pack 2 ER-PPC with 16 DHS, so you can run and fire both without overheating. Or you could do similar to the IS, go with 1 ER-PPC and some secondary weapons.
It all depends what you are needing. Both weapons have their place; on a 45 ton chassis it might be better to go with the one with less heat.
-Wraith
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Karagin
02/04/05 03:27 PM
65.129.167.72
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Nice summary. The idea was using the 45 ton chassis and it's many spin offs, not really looking for a set stats on this, just everyone idea of which is worth using more then the other.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Wraith
02/04/05 03:44 PM
129.101.55.124
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I think with either tech, the ER Large will give you more flexibility. Less weight and heat gives you more options with how you want to use the rest of your available tonnage. If range is a huge consideration, than IS may prefer going with the ER PPC.
If the mech is going to be fighting other mediums, with either weapon the third hit to a torso will be going internal. For Clan, the ER PPC will obviously go internal much faster, and with the abundance of XL engines on mechs with too few heat sinks anyways, getting the engine crit on your second shot to a torso could definitely turn the tide. A 45 ton Clan mech with an ER PPC (or two) is dangerous to any medium mech.
-Wraith
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Silenced_Sonix
02/04/05 06:01 PM
168.209.97.34
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Do not forget the handy "Headcap" ability of the Clan ER PPC.
Since a large amount of 'Mechs also mount most of their weapons in their arms, the fact that the Clan's ER PPC can knock an arm off a 45-tonner in one shot is a nice way to disarm your opponent.
Evolve or Die
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chez
02/05/05 11:44 AM
62.173.81.122
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This is the right question to be asking as the 45 - 55 tonners are the workhorses of BT and I think the most fun to play with. Heavier mechs don't have enough speed for my liking and lighter mechs don't carry enough punch.
As to the question itself Wraith pretty summed up the answer in his post and depending on your tech base you start to get something that looks a lot like a P-hawk as I would be more inclined to have one ERLL and some short range stuff than two big guns.
I guess that's why I like the Wraith mech as it's a bigger faster P-Hawk. I also like (God forgive me) the clan Goshawk but if a munchier mech exists I don't know what it is.
Following on from that would you say there was any room in the equation for a LPL?
Although I appreciate it would force the design into a different role.
chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
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Wraith
02/05/05 01:55 PM
68.67.32.114
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Worse than a Goshawk, the Viper 
-Wraith
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Cray
02/07/05 09:30 AM
147.160.136.10
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Speaking for the Inner Sphere:
The ER PPC. The extra 2 points of damage brings it into the semi-headcapping range and pulls it away from much more weight efficient medium weapons (like the MLs). The extra 4 hexes of range are a non-trivial bonus, too. Yes, there's also 3 more heat, but if the mech has DHS, the first ER PPC or ER LL won't be a burden.
What would I use the ER PPC for? Everything. The ER PPC is a bit more multi-role than the ER LL simply because of the extra damage. You can more reliably hammer...well, just about anything. At L1 and L2, it's good for hammering conventional infantry. It'll destroy IS standard battle armors in one shot (unlike the ER LL). You can always defeat head armor (unlike the ER LL), if not actually get guaranteed decapitations. And 10pts per plink is always good for killing vehicles, fighters, and battlemechs.
That little extra range keeps you outside of LRM range (unlike the ER LL), and more reliably out of the range of L1 threats like the PPC.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Grizzly
02/07/05 09:36 AM
64.9.50.200
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Let me preface my response by saying that I generally try to build mechs that only overheat when they do something extreme, such as jump and fire, or when their weapons can be fired in alternating salvos to control heat (like the Awesome). Otherwise I try to keep them as cool as possible. I have never been a big fan of the IS ERPPC. I would much rather have the IS ERLL. I don't feel the extra heat is worth the no minumum range for the ERPPC, except in some circumstances like the Jackal. If I want a PPC on an IS mech, I go with the standard variety. Now with the Clans you have a very different situation due to the increased damage for the ERPPC. If I could only get one major weapon, the Clan ERPPC is the way to go. But if I can get two major weapons, I would probably go with a pair of Clan ERLL. Once again, I try to stay near zero on the heat scale unless going higher is warranted.
"I am but mad north-northwest, when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw" Hamlet
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Karagin
02/07/05 11:35 AM
65.129.164.243
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Uhmm...doesnt the IS ER PPC only do 10 points of damage?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Grizzly
02/07/05 12:40 PM
64.9.50.200
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I was confused at first too, but I think Cray means in comparison to the large laser, that it does 2 extra points.
"I am but mad north-northwest, when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw" Hamlet
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Karagin
02/07/05 04:55 PM
65.129.164.167
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Okay...that maybe it...though having the ER PPC doing 12 points of damage for the IS wouldn't have been a bad thing.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Wraith
02/07/05 05:02 PM
129.101.55.124
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Well, with 10 points of damage the IS ER-PPC follows the pattern that FASA used. Clan weapons do 50% more damge than equivalent IS. The IS equivalents of the Clan ER tech (not sure if this holds for ER-ML and ER-SL) do the same amount of damage as the standard IS weapon, but 50% more heat. 12 points of damage would be scary, the perfect weapon for decapitation.
-Wraith
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Karagin
02/07/05 11:09 PM
65.129.165.217
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And the Gauss or the Clan tech ER PPC aren't scary as head decapitation weapons?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Wraith
02/07/05 11:41 PM
68.67.32.114
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15 points of damge is good for everything, 12 points is obviously good for taking off heads.
-Wraith
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Cray
02/08/05 08:28 AM
147.160.136.10
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Quote:
Uhmm...doesnt the IS ER PPC only do 10 points of damage?
That's about what I said: 2 more points of damage than the ER LL. (8+2=10)
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (02/08/05 08:29 AM)
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