An idea for a campaign... suggestions

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Lone_Wolf_Radick
03/12/05 11:03 PM
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Okay, a game a friend and I are trying to (loosely) recreate is that of the encounter at the Rock in the Oberon Confederation in 3049...

The sticky part I'm hitting is that I drew the lot for the IS player who is to be sidled with Level 1 only mechs and tech, as agreed...

I haven't played stricly IS OR level 1 in years but hey it should be fun... I will be facing a MINIMUM of a Trinary of Front Line Omnis, Medium or greater weights I believe, so I would like some suggestions as to what the composition of my forces should be, mixed and non-mixed, canon (is there fluff for this battle? I haven't seen much on it other then that's where the First Omni, a Timberwolf, was spotted) and otherwise to give me a fighting chance... I suppose I should stay limited to canon designs that are mostly pre-3050, though 3050 TRO mechs are legal otherwise my buddy'd have nothing to land with... Due to our schedules we'll probably run this first on Megamek... My forces I think can be up to Battalion Size, IIRC the rules of engagement. I'm thinking some Archers, or Catapults or something that can hit from afar, I need something old school that can match range and or speed with the superior Clan tech... Any ideas from the gurus out there? I've got a loose framework going but I've got many blanks to fill in... Vees and INF are still on the table...

Thanks all

-Wolf
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Nightward
03/13/05 05:09 AM
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At The Rock, only the Wolf Clan Golden Keshik deployed. I can find the unit info for you later, if you wish.

It's not a fair fight, though. The Wolf Clan Keshik are in Clan omnis and have 0/1 and 0/0 pilots.

"Ok. I ran, you ran, it's night, there's a blizzard, and I've got a Sensor hit. I need 2s..."
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Lone_Wolf_Radick
03/13/05 08:56 AM
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I'm well aware it wasn't a fair fight, that's why we're "loosely" recreating the scenario... I know about the Golden Keshik but where can I find info on the opposing force? I'd imagine the Oberons wouldn't have a ton of assaults on the rock, nor would they have any greatly skilled pilots... so this will probably be a slaughter no matter what the skills of the clanners are... LOL well it should be fun to watch.
-Wolf
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Nightward
03/13/05 07:30 PM
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IIRC, the only units mentioned for the Pirates are the Rifleman and Ryan's Griffin.

'Course, the Kell Hounds arrived, with Phelan Patrick Kell (2/3, IIRC) and Jack Tang in a Wolfhound and Blackjack respectively.

Then again, they run into Vlad of the Wards in a Timber Wolf Prime

The Pirates should probably have he crappy 'Mechs you otherwise wouldn't touch- stuff like Wolverine-Rs, standard model Mediums and low-end cruddy Heavies at best. Stuff like Riflemen.

I'll post the Wolf Clan Golden Keshik's stats later.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Greyslayer
03/14/05 01:48 AM
216.14.198.58

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You should have what on paper would look like it should take down the clanners but include morale into this fight.

Pirates or even House troops would not fight to the last, in any conflict if the defenders lose 50%+ they either surrender or run away screaming.

Don't forget even pirates would have a decent swag of vehicles for defensive purposes. Pegasus, Saracens, Galleons, Vedettes and perhaps if you are lucky a SRM carrier (imagine that baby opening up from hidden? ) these troops though would be green.
Nightward
03/14/05 07:17 AM
203.206.20.20

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Wolf Trinary Clan Command. All pilots should be 0/0 or 0/1. Names are not important. Note that in addition to the following, Vlad of the Wards was present.

First Star:

Timber Wolf, Gargoyle, Gargoyle, Timber Wolf, 2 Jagatai OmniFighters.

Second Star:

Ice Ferret, Timber Wolf, Timber Wolf, Timber Wolf, 2 Jagatai OmniFighters.

Third Star:

4 Elemental Points, 2 Visigoth OmniFighters.

Pirates (YARR!)

2 Lances of 'Mechs, on maneuver.

Kell Hounds. 3rd battalion, 1st Regiment. (Entire). I believe the Kell Hounds were IS Veterans.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Lone_Wolf_Radick
03/16/05 05:37 PM
69.92.234.82

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I figured I'd be sidled with such things as Riflemen and the like... I'm hoping Vee's are allowed for this game because I fully intended to hide them and take away what damage I could...

Know all about the morale as well, as soon as I'm routed I have to run... period... Urgh... stupid non-clan pilots...

The good news is there will be NO aerofighters whatsoever so I'm spared a little bit of the threat.... I did say "little"...

Hmm... So for me to continue building the force I have just to make it a sporting fight is not in line with canon so I'll have to drop it to a Vehicle heavy force... oh well...

I'll let you know how badly I get whipped...

-Wolf
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Nightward
03/16/05 05:56 PM
203.206.19.99

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For the pirates, ja. From what I understand, those two Lances were the only 'Mech forces they had available. THe Wolf Clan SB makes mention of a "mixed-forces battalion" but gets no more in-depth than that. Odds are the rest wee pretty generic vehicles, probably the faser and or Infantry-carrying ones. Infantry might even have been as high as 50%.

Keep in mind, too, that the Wolves expected to fight a combined-arms regiment on The Rock and decided that the Wolf Clan Golden Keshik was equal to the task. I'd suggest giving them Skills from MT on top of what they've already got.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Lone_Wolf_Radick
03/16/05 06:00 PM
69.92.234.82

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MORE skills? LOL I'm not trying to get annhilated in two turns... I wanna at least make this interesting... I don't suppose I can win regardles... Standard vehicles huh? Hmm... Well I suppose I can inflict a loss or two with properly hidden Vee's... Perhaps I'll be allowed control of the kell hounds as well... then I could at least make a closer score of it...

-Wolf
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Lone_Wolf_Radick
03/16/05 06:01 PM
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It's really too bad nobody has ever written an in-depth account of this encounter... That would be a big help and work as a frame guide for planning this game...

-Wolf
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Nightward
03/16/05 11:34 PM
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That is what happened, though. The Wolf Clan Keshik are not mere Elite warriors- they are legends within the most highly skilled of the Clans. They bear the Blood of Kerensky.

They are the equal (at worst, near-equal) of Kai Allard-Liao.

IMO, they are better, given that Phelan Ward and Kai are equals, but the warriors of the Wolf Clan Keshik were even better still.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Greyslayer
03/17/05 02:20 AM
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What you need is a frame-work of rules or extra rules that are going to be used in this.

As Nightward suggested, perhaps those nancy-boy Wolves are going to have things like Edge or Tactical Genius etc, this though might give you the chance to use rules like double-tapping standard ACs (only if really desparate), hotloading LRMs (vehicles can do this alot easier than mechs can so read up on it).

Probably set a tonnage up for the defending side, eg 400 tons mech, 1 company infantry and then say 1200 tons vehicles (including vehicles to transport the infantry with). Avoid fusion engines they were very rare out that way, and were excessively given to mechs only if they were available.

Pirates would excel at two things, setting traps and running. Its what they do. Look up rules for opportunity fire, aimed shots and careful aim (level 3, MaxTech). Since most of your troops are going to be green they will need these rules to make the most of ambushes.

Remember to inferno mechs carring elementals. You get them then watch them pop like corn , you can have inferno srm infantry. They will not be detected by Probes usually so more effective than a vehicle or mech from ambush.

Pirates may or may not follow the ares conventions (I would say generally not), Kell Hounds would so while the Kell Hounds would not inferno elementals, Pirates would use tactical nukes if they had them etc
Nightward
03/18/05 01:54 AM
203.206.17.1

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I would suggest not.

The Wolves are going to be heavily outclassed in a BV or tonnage-based game.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Greyslayer
03/18/05 01:58 AM
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But basically unaffected by Morale. So despite having more tonnage and a higher bv none of the troops will fight to the death (thus not getting the most out of them).
Lone_Wolf_Radick
03/18/05 10:50 AM
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Good points all around, and all considered I don't think it'd be fair to field an entire Regiment of Hounds plus two more lances and mixed armor, regardless of morale issues... I think I'll fix the number and tonnage of my team to be somewhat commensurate with that of a command trinary and to keep the game from dragging on too long or becoming a rout (on either side, even though it was a rout for the Keshik)... Since I'm pretty limited in my mechs and vee choices however and he's gonna be in mostly gargoyles and timberwolves with some elementals we may bend the rules a little in favor of more variety... I'd wanna play it out from both sides at least once though as close to Canon as possible first. Hmm... So I got Level one greenies, pirates and mercs, about a regiment's worth of them with armor support, Vs. the best that Clan Wolf has to offer, in Lvl 2 omni's? I STILL don't like my chances... LOL unless the dice are with me Every roll...

-Wolf
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
chez
03/18/05 10:55 AM
62.173.81.122

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I don't want to make your life harder but to get as close to the scenario as possible you must use your forces as if you were encountering IS lvl1 tech not clan tech. This is one of the first encounters between IS and Clan so the superiority of Wolf equipment should stun and amaze you (briefly).
In the fluff Phelan's tactic to beat Vlad was based on the MadCat was quick,heavily armed and heat efficient and therefore must have "tissue paper for armour".
D'OH!!!

Good luck pal, your gonna need it!

chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
Lone_Wolf_Radick
03/18/05 12:06 PM
69.92.234.82

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This is true, I will be "shocked and awed" by the clan weaponry for a while, but as this is one of the first encounters between IS and clan forces, I believe it can work a little in the other direction as well... Case in point: This being the Clan's first encounter with anyone who doesn't think and fight as they do, it will probably give THEM pause (if only briefly) once they discover these advesaries don't fight one-on-one, Zellbrigen battles of honor, and do relish in setting traps, dropping nukes, and all around fighting dirty, including running away to fight another day... In the confusion that follows their rules of engagement breaking down around them, I may just get a good kill or two from swarming or minelaying or something clanners don't normally consider good honorable battle tactics... Like explosive laden mechs... or something... I'm already loading my forces down with as many SRM carriers and Hover tanks as I can fit, with a few minelayers and heavy tanks as backup to the myriad Riflemen, Locusts, Catapults, Starslayers, Urbanmechs, and Hatchetmen I'm bound to end up with.

*disclaimer*

I do not expect to win, nor challenge or attempt to change the course of BT history in any way, nor am I trying to "prove" anything by playing this campaign, as has been suggested... Far be it, I am a clan player by heart who just chose the short stick... But I do want to make this a good game, and in some small way prove that superior numbers can be every bit as effective as superior technology, and superior tactical strength and experience is better still... A bit un-clan like I know... maybe I'm going soft in my old age?
-Wolf
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Nightward
03/19/05 06:32 AM
203.166.252.205

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Ahem. *BROKEN* ahem...cough, cough.

The Kell Hounds sent a single Battalion. 'Mechs only, tending towards Lights and low-end Mediums. They were, after all, assigned pirate-hunting duties, not a frontal assault on a Capitol World.

Ryan's Rebals, or whatever he called them, had two lances of 'Mechs- topping out with that Rifleman- and the rest were Vehicles.

Neither side deployed "a regiment".

Even so, two Battalions versus a single Binary (which is all the Wolves have sans their ASFs) is a severe mismatch.

The Pirates idn't have Nukes. Nobody used Nukes in the Clan Invasion. That would have given the Clans a reason to use Orbital Bombardment.

Also, Starslayers didn't return to the field until after 3058, when the IS recovered the plans.

Pirates might have Wasps, Stingers, Blackjacks, Locusts, and so on through the common lights. Kenny Ryan's Griffin and the Rifleman assigned as his bodyguard would definately be the heaviest assets they had.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Lone_Wolf_Radick
03/19/05 08:45 AM
129.33.119.12

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Yes I realize there were no nukes it was simply an example... I don't think Megamek has a "tactical Nuke" option anyways, and this will be the stage for the first battle... Two battalions against a binary and some battle armor? May have to even it up a bit... Oh well, I'll figure it out... Griffin and Rifleman being the best I get, huh? Ouch. Well I can dig up some of the other more ubiquitous and cheaper lights and mediums to round out the forces involved. And Vees, vees everywhere... I think the biggest hit to morale came when I informed my buddy that there were no Dire Wolves involved in this battle... It broke his heart, he had a "special" one ready to throw at me... LOL...

-wolf
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Nightward
03/20/05 05:38 AM
203.217.83.246

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Ok. A couple of things:

1. The most force bought to bear at any stage against the Wolves was a single Company.

2. The Rock is not a suitable planet for VTOLs. It has very thin (almost no) atmosphere. Sealed vehicles and space-suited infantry only.

3. Everything aside from the Rifleman and Griffin will be piss-poor and in bad condition for the Pirates. They're bandits. Maintaining 'Mechs really stretches things for them.

4. Dire Wolf was part of the bid. Chew on that, Spheroid.

Without ASFs, the Wolves are flat-out screwed. Also, MM will not allow for the advanced skills necessary for the Wolves. I suggest you find a more suitable battle to play out than this.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Lone_Wolf_Radick
03/20/05 08:50 AM
129.33.119.12

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Yeah, Yeah, hence why I said "loosely" recreated... I know there are tons of better battles I can defer to but this one is rarely done or spoke of around the people I play BT and MM with so I'm just gonna go ahead with it, as off as it may be...

a whole company, a whole battalion, it doesn't really matter because I can't load ASF or advanced skills anyways so maintaining canon went out the window regardless, but I'm gonna try for as close as poor ole MM can deliver... After running a few mock battles against the bot from both sides, There is definitely a good argument to be made for numerical superiority... even at 3025 era lvl 1 tech...

We'll see how it plays out, and I'll put together a few units for deployment and run them by you all... Can we say "no chance in hell" with a single company? LOL

-Wolf
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Greyslayer
03/21/05 01:41 AM
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Quote:

Ok. A couple of things:

1. The most force bought to bear at any stage against the Wolves was a single Company.




Did the wolves use their full strength in each fight as well? Surely a strategic planning could be used by each commander to plot their moves before a conflict.

Quote:

2. The Rock is not a suitable planet for VTOLs. It has very thin (almost no) atmosphere. Sealed vehicles and space-suited infantry only.




I very much doubt the pirates had almost a battalion of vehicles with fusion engines that paid the 10% tonnage payment to be completely sealed.

Quote:

3. Everything aside from the Rifleman and Griffin will be piss-poor and in bad condition for the Pirates. They're bandits. Maintaining 'Mechs really stretches things for them.




Not sure the quality of mechs can be factored into megamek?

Quote:

4. Dire Wolf was part of the bid. Chew on that, Spheroid.




Slow, be a sitting duck if a proper ambush is set with vehicles.

Okay now that that is said you should really have three sides. Pirates, Kell Hounds and Wolf Clan. The Kell hounds would fire on the pirates too if given the chance.
Wraith
03/21/05 02:35 AM
68.67.32.114

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Um, that was Dire Wolf as in the warship, not the mech... tanks won't ambush it too well
-Wraith
Greyslayer
03/21/05 03:29 AM
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Quote:

Um, that was Dire Wolf as in the warship, not the mech... tanks won't ambush it too well




It would be the last thing they would expect then
Nightward
03/21/05 06:07 AM
203.173.23.238

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Heh.

But to answer the points above- the Wolves dispatched a few points worth of strength to distract the Pirates, whilst Elementals marauded through their rear lines. By the time the Wolves entered the battle full-force, the pirates were screwed.

As for the 10% sealing costs, you don't have too much of a choice if you're a space pirate on what amounts to an asteroid.

To alter the condition of 'Mechs, you'd have to do a hell of a lot of editing to the files of MM, or subject them to a variety of aimed shots or whatnot and save the resulting files to simulate battle damage. In essence, MM is not up to the task, a fine program though it is.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Lone_Wolf_Radick
03/21/05 08:59 AM
129.33.119.12

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Aye, MM, limited though it may be, will be the stage... Dire Wolf the Warship? I figured that was what you meant but little good it will do on MM either... Was thinking perhaps substituting some clan vee's in place of the ASF's, but I doubt the clan player will need it... Good point on the three sides though, I may have to invite another player or connect a bot just for kicks... a three way makes it more interesting anyways, no? On that note, how would one rate Phelan by this point? Ryan? I'm thinking 2/2 and 3/4 (at best) respectively, with the majority of the underlings being 4/5 or 5/6...

-Wolf
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
Nightward
03/21/05 08:42 PM
132.234.251.211

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Clan VTOLS are second-line. EVen the best so far (the Donar Assualt Chopper) in no way compares to the Visigoth, let alone the Jagatai.

Phelan Patrick Kell is good, but not great. He would be a Veteran (3/4), perhaps 3/3 as he moves towards becoming an Elite. However, there's a large gap of time and training under Natasha Kerensky before he moves into the realm of 0/1 as a Khan of the Clan. Kenny Ryan would be 4/5 at best. The Pirates would be Green, with their Lance Commanders as Regulars. Regular troops vertually require the backing of a House to maintain. The Pirates might have the experience, but the general condition of their 'Mechs and lack of discipline would reduce their skills to at least that level, if not lower.

But I'll say it again: a Binary versus two Battalions, even of 3025 technology, is in no way, shape, or form a fair match.

The Wolves are going to get creamed.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Lone_Wolf_Radick
04/29/05 09:22 AM
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Note to those who have little patience- Don't try this, or any other scenario involving more than 8v8 or 3 players against bots... You'll be waiting hours for them to make movement and attack phases... Urghhh... Still haven't managed a time to play this one out yet, but still plan to do so.

-Wolf
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
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