Hells horses cluster

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dramazing
11/04/05 02:53 PM
144.35.254.5

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Ok, so a friend and I are going to start playing a campaign against one another. I know that the factions involved might not make alot of sense (but if you have suggestions on how they could be brought together story-wise, it would be appreciated). So here's the facts about the game:

-We are using level 2 tech
-I will be playing a 4 trianary cluster of hells horses mechs (2 are nova trianaries)
-My opponent will be playing a regiment (108 mechs?) of Kurita forces.
-We are ignoring battle value for these games; using random rolls for star/lance weight classes.
-We are using random rolls for pilots.
-We are allowing custom mech designs.
-We are using the MegaMek program and HUGE custom maps: (60x50hexes)
-We have the program set to doubleblind deployment (you can't see an enemy mech if none of your units have LOS to it)
-After several trianary vs 2 company (24mechs?) battles, we will have a grand battle with what is left over on a 4 (60x50) map board.

But I still have a few questions here:

1) If someone wanted to substitute a mech in a lance or star for vehicles, is that appropriate?
2) If so, at what rate (i.e. 1mech=2vehicles of same weight class?)
3) How do you pick a good combination of units for a certain weight class star?
4) What strategies are effective for the different weight class stars?
5) What is the best way to use a nova star?

Thanks in advance...
Nightward
11/04/05 06:30 PM
203.206.63.76

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1 and 2. Randomly-rolled forces can be re-allocated to form Stars constituted from whatever you wish. You just can't add or remove 'Mechs. Since you're rolling 'Mechs, you can't trade them for vehicles, as this is a different table with other random factors involved. A standard Horses cluster, even on the front-line, usually consists of three 'Mech, one ASF, and one Infantry trinary, however.

3 and 4. I don't. What you're looking for in a Star are 'Mechs that fill a similar niche ormove at similar speeds. A fast-attack, short-range combat Star might be lead by a Storm Crow, supported by a pair each of Ice Ferrets and Mist Lynxes, for example. This way, most of the unit is 8/12, headed by a 6/9 mover and capable of fighting at similar ranges. If you're looking to engage as a unit, similar speed is a vital consideration.

5. Since you're Hell's Horses, try to use Gnome Elementals as much as you can and treat them as ablative armour. A Gnome adds 16 points of armour to an OmniMech's side and rear torsos, which is fantastic.

As a grand overview, though, you're screwed. You're outnumbered nearly two to one against an opponent who can and will assemble C3 networks and may also have artillery support.

Given the amount by which IS technology has improved, these days it's reasonable to expect a Clan 'Mech to be worth 1.2 IS ones- so a Clan Binary is the rough equal of an Inner Sphere Company. If you're using a Cluster, he should have two Battalions, tops, for a more-or-less equal battle.

Finally, he's under no obligation to follow Zellbrigen, but you as a Horse player really are. Given the above advantages, I can see the campaign ending only in abject disaster.

As an aside, I hope you have a LOT of spare time, because such a campaign could take many, many months to resolve.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
dramazing
11/05/05 01:46 AM
67.171.127.149

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How exactly does one follow Zellbrigen on the board game. I get that it's a clan honor system, and that it involves one on one challanges until someone wins (and the grand melee if someone else shoots into a duel) but what do the rest of my units do while waiting for the duel to finish?
Nightward
11/05/05 02:20 AM
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In Zellbrigen, each Clan Warrior selects an opponent and tries to bring them down.

The Horses are seen as borderliners by the other Clans, because they still use conventional vehicles and infantry. However, the Horses- particularly their Front-Line clusters- are rabidly pro-Zellbrigen and are thus highly unlikely to break the rules lightly.

Anyone not engaged in a duel is required by Clan honour to sit still and do nothing. Odds on the Dragon doing that? Not so good. Odds on the Horses being in a position to recover thereafter? Not so hot.

Trust me on this; the game balance might have sounded good at the time, but it's not. Assuming rough parity between the two players, the Clan force is screwed. To play for a chance to win, the Clan player basically has to be at least twice as good as their opponent, and be fighting in favourable circumstances.

Just play a Binary/Company game. It'll be suitably epic, and will probably take at least a full day to play through.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
dramazing
11/05/05 03:24 AM
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It was my understanding though that as soon as someone on either side attacks a mech that is already involved in a duel with someone else, all bets are off, and anyone can attack anyone. I think they called it Grand Melee. Anyways, if this is the case, it puts me at a one turn disadvantage as they will almost certainly do just that on their first turn of firing. (and even then, it's not like I didn't fire, I just wasn't able to concentrate fire)

Then again, I could be totally wrong about this. Of course, that would also mean that the BV system is pretty close to useless for the clans.

Also consider that knowing that I'm going to be facing C3 almost constantly, I'm going to have ALOT of ECM equipped units, so it won't make a as big of a difference.
KamikazeJohnson
11/05/05 03:58 AM
205.200.6.170

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If you're forced to follow Zellbrigen and your opp isn't, your only hope is to control the range..engage primarily with long range weapons, use terrain and mobility to keep his target numbers 2-3 points higher than yours...I know in the old days, "average" Clan pilots were 4/3 vs IS 5/4, which is a tremendous advantage as well...possibly enough to even the odds given a large enough map.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Nightward
11/05/05 06:22 AM
203.206.63.76

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The Horses don't follow that interpretation of Zellbrigen. They're Clan, through and through.

The Wolves take a "Yeah, whatever" approach to things and won't break the rules first- but once they're broken, all hell errupts.

The Falcons claim to follow Zellbrigen, but gleefully violate it at every opportunity.

These are Clans who've had to learn to adapt to the IS. The Horses haven't. The Horses are highly honourable. In a campaign, they'd obey Zellbrigen.

'Course, you can toss that if you want, but then so much flavour gets lost.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Karagin
11/05/05 10:32 AM
24.243.178.223

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1 mech to 2 vehicles is a good start...but you may want note that some of the vehicles will not last long in the fight so pick careful.

A good combo of units are ones that compliment each's strengths and cover the weaknesses of the others in the lance or star. Long range support units need units to cover the close in stuff etc...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
dramazing
11/05/05 02:48 PM
67.171.127.149

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Hmmm, maybe the horses aren't what I was looking for after all... Are there any other crusader clans that have more of the wolf attitude besides wolf itslef?
Nightward
11/05/05 10:37 PM
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The Falcons don't obey Zellbrigen against the 'Sphere and only rarely honour it against other Clans. However, the Dragon doesn't border with the Falcon OZ.

If your friend is playing Combine, you could have a go at being Ghost Bear. The Bears are fairly similar to the Horses (sans conventional forces) but have the added advantage of the average 'Mech weighing in at something approaching 95 tons. The Bears more or less view the Timber Wolf as a Light 'Mech...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
dramazing
11/07/05 01:32 AM
67.171.127.149

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Ok the average mech being 95 tons is a bit much... I want to be able to use manuverability to my advantage as well. What about clans blood spirit, fire mandrill, or star adder. I definately don't want wolf or jade falcon and ice hellions are pretty weird sounding even for a clan. So among the first 3 I mentioned which would be most likely to attack kurita and not use a strict interpretation of Zellbrigen.

If I can't figure this out, I may just have to end up being a really radical cluster in the 9th galaxy (they're pretty wierd anyways aren't they?)

Having to use Zelbrigen with the IS is really starting to get on my nerves.
Nightward
11/07/05 11:41 PM
203.206.35.185

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The Clans in the Inner Sphere are the Ghost Bears (bordering Kurita and the Wolves and Horses), the Hell's Horses (bordering the Wolves and Bears), the Wolves (bordering the Bears, the Falcons, the FRR and the Lyran Commonwealth), and the Falcons (bordering the Wolves and the Lyran Commonwealth).

Only the Bears now share a border with the Combine.

The Nova Cats (found in FM: ComStar) were exiled from the Clans and now live in a Prefecture set aside for them by the Combine. The Cats are pretty serious about Zellbrigen, though, too.

In the end only the Bears would be attacking the Combine; the Wolves have no reason to do so, since they're eyeing off the Rasalhague Republic and have lost some stupid amount of worlds in their OZ to the Ghost Bears "because".* The Combine did launch attacks against the Cats, but those were Ghost Regiments, IIRC.

You don't have to use Zellbrigen, but removing it takes the heart and soul out of playing Clan, IMO.

*"Because" is author fiat. The Bears have turned from one of the most hard-core Crusader Clans, with a reputation for perpetrating horrors like the use of WMDs and orbital barrages into a communist hippy Clan that espouses love, joy, harmony, and the use of assualt 'Mechs. Meanwhile, the Wolves have gone from being the heirs of Kerensky to whipping boys in the same time.

Sigh.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
dramazing
11/09/05 12:30 PM
144.35.254.5

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It sounds like the clans need some revamping for them to be cool again. I take it the star adders (despite seeming to have a huge number of clusters) aren't anywhere near the battle front.

-sigh-

Maybe I'll just have to play as cluster that somehow is run by the bandit caste. That'll stop the Zelbrigen problem and allow me to attack using a really wierd mixture of units... or maybe even be the lost remanents of the wolverines. Whaddya think?
Auren_Shiro
11/09/05 02:25 PM
24.34.100.170

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For one thing, Clan Wolverine are bandits.

For thing #2, Them Wolverines aren't going to have much better then IS tech, perhaps some sort of hybrid SL and Clan tech.

For Thing #3, weren't the Bears ALWAYS Warden? I thought Smoke Jaguar was W007! Weapons of Mass Destruction! Orbital Bombardment! I pwn j00!

Thing #4: ECM would be very, very good. Also, do not get into close range combat, go for long range, hard hitting weapons like ER PPCs and G-Rifles... and Artemis will be good for you, not for them. I'd say go with LPLs but, go with ER Larges, they weigh less and have better range.

Thing #5: My friend and I had a Binary vs. Company game. We finished in 3 hours.


Head shots would do that with head choppers.
Need...more...Nevcrack...
Nightward
11/10/05 12:54 AM
203.206.118.227

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Clan Wolverine was Annihilated by the Clans long, long ago. Some of them (the Minnesota Tribe) attacked and were destroyed by the Combine, but they didn't have tech that even approached Clan level.

The Bears as originally presented in the Blood of Kerensky trilogy were insane. Khan Ulric Kerensky specifically tells Phelan that he's cutting into their borders and pushing the bid early because he knew that the Bear Khans were planning to use orbital barrages to break the Rasalhagians, folowed by ASF bombing runs. They made the Bears into space communists later, because you can only have one Nazi clan (the Jags) running around before it gets a bit stale.

I think it might be best if you just play a generic game, with some generic Clan stuff fighting generic IS stuff. Then things like Clan or House affiliation don't matter.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
dramazing
11/13/05 11:33 PM
67.171.127.149

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Ok, well the current problem I'm having is resolving Zelbriggen with the horses fire support tactics, here's why:

1) The horses use ALOT of fire support in the form of vehicles and Battle armor
2) The horses are apparently really big on the Zelbriggen thing.

So, how can I honor Zelbriggen and yet have vehicles (or even Naga mechs) firing off Arrow IV's against people they can't see?

For that matter, haven't the horses ALWAYS been big on fire support? (ex: operation klondike)
Karagin
11/14/05 01:06 AM
24.243.178.223

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You can always bid it away, thus forcing your oppeant to bid something away that is an advantage for him.

OR

You can say that your support is play and will only fire on tagged targets or on enemy vehicle assest only etc..

Lots of things can be done here with this.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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