Cecil
Lieutenant
Reged: 07/09/02
Posts: 467
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Suggested Minor Change to Upcoming December Update (About FDoW)
#120351 - 11/15/05 09:26 PM (69.167.128.217)
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First off, I would like to thank the Admins for using the Incentive approach advocated by players regarding changes to the game.
In today's update, it states:
Quote:
Maximum Maintenance Rates For the month of, and the two months following a faction war, empires may choose from all available maintenance rates. 3 months after the end of their last faction war, empires may no longer choose the "exempt" maintenance rate. After 6 months of peace, you may not choose "very high" and after 9 months you may not choose "high". If you have not been in a faction war for a real year (10 nevyears) you may not choose any maintenance rate other than "low." Unfactioned empires and factions that have never been in a faction war will likewise be capped at "low" maintenance rates.
I propose a change regarding the handling of themaintenance rates. My proposal is as follows:
Empires with their maintenace rates set to Exempt will also be exempt from the military maintenance payment exemption and the skill multiplier increase during a Faction War. On the flip side, the Maximum Maintenance rate timeline will only affect Very High, High, Normal settings. Empires with their levels at Exempt would still be affected by Peacetime Lethargy to disincentivize remaining idle.
Here is my reasoning:
Empires currently pay the highest maintenance multiplier to maintain the status quo. Why? To avoid skill-worsening. However, by doing so, you forego the periodic skill-bettering. Empires are making a conscious decision to keep their soldiers the same, and therefore are paying monetarily for that option.
By introducing a timeline tied to FWar activity, that option is now only a luxury if you actively FWar every 3 months. My proposal would allow empires (factioned or un-factioned) to stay at Exempt, but at the cost of forgoing the benefits of the FWar (free maintenance & 20% skill multiplier). Since the whole purpose of Exempt is to maintain the status quo for soldiers, my proposal would, in a way, maintain that status quo and still disincentivize remaining idle.
EDIT: I was just thinking about the peacetime lethargy effects; if it is cumulative where your multipliers drop 10% each month after the 3rd month after a FWar, then my suggestion would need to change a bit to offset a potential spiraling down of multipliers to 0 over time.
I think they would have to reset to their base multiplier levels after a FWar, or get the 20% boost after an FWar, but the multipliers cannot be increased past their base. It all depends on how the admins better explain how the Peacetime Lethargy works.
Edited by Cecil (11/15/05 10:27 PM)
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Whalefsh
Captain
Reged: 01/31/03
Posts: 1129
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
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Re: Suggested Minor Change to Upcoming December Update (About FDoW)
[Re: Cecil]
#120393 - 11/16/05 03:57 AM (82.41.118.28)
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The reason exempt exists is not to keep units pristine but so they don't degrade over time.
Warring will give skill checks and allow them to skilldown. What your basically saying is that an exempt setting would be detrimental to prized units, which is not the point of the exempt setting.
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Whalefsh
What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you excercise it?
To whom are you accountable? How do we get rid of you? - Tony Benn
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Cecil
Lieutenant
Reged: 07/09/02
Posts: 467
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Re: Suggested Minor Change to Upcoming December Update (About FDoW)
[Re: Whalefsh]
#120406 - 11/16/05 07:00 AM (69.167.128.217)
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Having units not degrade over time is pretty much keeping them pristine in my book. If a negative-gun soldier worsens due to a maintenance skill check, he's no longer pristine.
As for my suggestion being detrimental to prized unit, how do you see it as being detrimental? What's your logic?
What I'm proposing is basically a way to keep Exempt from being effected by FWar activity. We're already paying the highest maint. rate and get to maintain our soldiers at their current status. I would think that forgoing the benefits of FWar would be a good tradeoff to keep being basically forced to war every 3 months as opposed to 6.
Reasoning why 6 is better than 3? We're talking about a Faction war, with a lot of people. It takes time (usually longer than 3 months) to choose a day a good portion of a faction will be online together to get a good enough portion to participate in the war. Maybe the slider just needs to be adjusted to "No exempt after 6 months since the last FWar".
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: Suggested Minor Change to Upcoming December Update (About FDoW)
[Re: Cecil]
#120425 - 11/16/05 10:14 AM (84.24.165.226)
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I would like to se ethat too, but allas it is likely not to be.
Anyway, I was wondering if the -10% on skill multiplier is absolute or realtive. Say multi 10 degrades to 9, 8.1, 7.2?? etc, or straight 9, 8, 7 etc.
2 Fwars a year seems a bit on the high side for me too, maybe 1ce a year? But I'm a fwar rookie so far so not sure about that.
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Rather to blow up, then.
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SubZero
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/13/05
Posts: 567
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Re: Suggested Minor Change to Upcoming December Update (About FDoW)
[Re: Cecil]
#120428 - 11/16/05 10:19 AM (80.218.228.40)
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Quote:
Empires currently pay the highest maintenance multiplier to maintain the status quo. Why? To avoid skill-worsening. However, by doing so, you forego the periodic skill-bettering. Empires are making a conscious decision to keep their soldiers the same, and therefore are paying monetarily for that option.
they pay it because the skill improvements don't work as advertised on very high...
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Hiski
Newbie
Reged: 01/19/05
Posts: 21
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Re: Suggested Minor Change to Upcoming December Update (About FDoW)
[Re: SubZero]
#120515 - 11/17/05 05:43 AM (193.210.145.12)
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In my humble opinion multipliers are holy cow in Neveron. Multipliers should not be affected by anything besides donations. That is because the effects of multipliers to empires status are more complicated than it looks on the surface.
I suggest that instead of multipliers change there would be increase in numbers of skillup checks. And if exempt maintenance rate is removed from empire after some time without FWAR it should accomplish what the admins want without some problematic consequenses.
-Hiski
Edited by Hiski (11/17/05 05:44 AM)
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KingDiamond
Lieutenant
Reged: 04/12/03
Posts: 689
Loc: Germany
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Re: Suggested Minor Change to Upcoming December Update (About FDoW)
[Re: Cecil]
#120743 - 11/20/05 04:20 PM (128.176.216.116)
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people, all your suggestions are just fine, but you forget the most important (and most sinister) aspect of the new system: You as an individual empire can LW your ass off, but you are punished anyway if you're not able to drag your WHOLE faction (and a complete opponent faction as well) into some admin-enforced pointless mass slaughter. It's the general idea of Fwar that is the problem.
Personally, I gave away all my empires except one. That particular one has just been in an Fwar, so I don't have to worry about skill losses and forcefully applied maint rates for just a few months. Fwar is nothing but annoying. Can't be bothered anymore. Thank you.
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Wayward_Son
Major
Reged: 07/05/02
Posts: 1287
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Re: Suggested Minor Change to Upcoming December Update (About FDoW)
[Re: KingDiamond]
#120938 - 11/22/05 10:51 AM (24.117.208.90)
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KingDiamond if you are 'LWing your ass off' then you will be getting lots of skilldowns and you would be wasting your money by having your maint rate elevated to begin with. You could be using that money to afford more attack and transit costs.
WS
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Tigera
Sergeant Major
Reged: 10/19/04
Posts: 284
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Suggested Minor Change to Upcoming December Update (About FDoW)
[Re: Wayward_Son]
#120941 - 11/22/05 11:36 AM (137.118.1.16)
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Quote:
KingDiamond if you are 'LWing your ass off' then you will be getting lots of skilldowns and you would be wasting your money by having your maint rate elevated to begin with. You could be using that money to afford more attack and transit costs.
WS
And what about the units that you have sitting in your cities that are not attacking ? While your assault units are getting skilldowns your defense troops are becoming morons . Not everyone is going to attack someone with every unit they have .
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*** When everything is said and done , all you really have is yourself . ***
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KingDiamond
Lieutenant
Reged: 04/12/03
Posts: 689
Loc: Germany
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Re: Suggested Minor Change to Upcoming December Update (About FDoW)
[Re: Wayward_Son]
#121092 - 11/24/05 11:30 AM (128.176.216.116)
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actually, I did LW a lot, and I didn't get many skilldowns. My problem seemingly that I don't put too many DP on multis. As a low-dp small empire, you can't just switch pilots when they're untalented. You just have to stick by them and work very, very hard to get them to skills that are reasonable for LW.
And anyway... my point was that individual empires can LW a lot, but that doesn't affect the period counting for No-Fwar penalties. So you are encouraging collective mass slaughter. People who don't want collective mass slaughter are severely penalized. What sincerely ticks me off is this categoric need for large scale wars you are imposing on all of us. Not much freedom already on Nev, because of political limitations between factions and alliances. Even less freedom with this whole Fwar concept. I don't like games where I don't have much freedom to decide. And that's the simple reason why I gave away all my empires save one. And if there are no changes in the near future, that last one will be given away or deleted as well. You could care less, I believe, as I never was a great donator. Thank you for your time.
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Tigera
Sergeant Major
Reged: 10/19/04
Posts: 284
Loc: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Suggested Minor Change to Upcoming December Update (About FDoW)
[Re: KingDiamond]
#121149 - 11/24/05 10:51 PM (137.118.1.16)
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Do not fool yourself KD , Admin would not care about anyone even if sent them $20,000 a month (well they might if it was that much) Since they have made the statement that they would rather have several small empires sending money instead of one large empire sending in the same amount .
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*** When everything is said and done , all you really have is yourself . ***
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Merlin
Corporal
Reged: 10/22/05
Posts: 79
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Re: Suggested Minor Change to Upcoming December Update (About FDoW)
[Re: Tigera]
#121222 - 11/26/05 03:50 PM (220.245.178.133)
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well iv warred 3 times in the last 2 weeks and that hasnt done my empire any good financilally any good...only 1 surrender income as the other 2 was at 50% and no skill downs at all...bacically all iv managed to do is raise morale for a lot of cash and that is all...no other apparent benefits.
Do much for skilldowns and rewards of war 
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