NileIngrams
Private
Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 29
Loc: Brisbane,Australia.
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Toontje]
#121198 - 11/26/05 02:51 AM (60.228.190.84)
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There was a gradual improvement of the old standard favourite energy weapons before they made the technical leaps to where they are now. The Compact nature of clan energy weapons is a result of this earlier step of improvement.
Still the Dragoons had to downgrade their mechs to avoid suspicion.
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NileIngrams NI! - The Killer of Threads!
In the time before the return of the heirs of Kerensky,
when the Successor Lords had tired of bathing worlds in Nuclear Madness,
there was an age of High Adventure!
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Auren_Shiro
Sergeant Major
Reged: 09/21/05
Posts: 276
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: NileIngrams]
#121265 - 11/27/05 11:07 AM (65.96.9.70)
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Must've been a sad day for the Dragoons to go to IS equipment...
Jamie Wolf cries in sorrow for going from 4 LRM 20s to 2 LRM 20s.
Still, Heavy Lasers in my opinion seem like a brutish weapon, unlike ER Lasers and Pulse lasers. If anything, it seems that FASA/Wizkids said 'let's give clans even more nasty weapons!' And the only downside is the fact that the lasers are IS range... meaning they have twice the power in the same range. It ain't fair anymore.
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Need...more...Nevcrack...
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6324
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Auren_Shiro]
#121269 - 11/27/05 04:10 PM (24.243.178.223)
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And Clan Pulse Lasers were fair?
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Karagin]
#121271 - 11/27/05 04:36 PM (84.24.165.226)
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Clan pulse (and lbx) is for weenies who cannot handle the true power of ER (and ultra).
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Rather to blow up, then.
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6324
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Toontje]
#121278 - 11/27/05 07:46 PM (24.243.178.223)
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How is LBX for weenies? I can see how the pules lasers are very easyily abused, add a TargComp and you have the ulitmate death system in the game...but how so for the LBX AC?
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NileIngrams
Private
Reged: 03/05/05
Posts: 29
Loc: Brisbane,Australia.
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Karagin]
#121290 - 11/27/05 11:45 PM (60.228.211.25)
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I agree, LBX still has it's flaws/advantages. The biggest flaw being that it is an ammo dependent weapon - if it runs out of ammo - tough luck. If that ammo gets hit - splat - good bye section and generally good bye mech! The LBX System is the nicest and most balanced multi-purpose weapon you can get. Having the advantage of still being able to throw out regular shells on top of cluster munition make the cost of toting around the weight of a LBX-10 around bearable.
I think the LBX's real advantage is in taking down Vehicles, VTOLs and Aerospace Fighters.... on top of giving nasty headaches to people who camp behind partial cover - LBX Cluster can really upset their plans!
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NileIngrams NI! - The Killer of Threads!
In the time before the return of the heirs of Kerensky,
when the Successor Lords had tired of bathing worlds in Nuclear Madness,
there was an age of High Adventure!
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Auren_Shiro
Sergeant Major
Reged: 09/21/05
Posts: 276
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: NileIngrams]
#121307 - 11/28/05 05:00 AM (24.34.100.170)
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Yeah, I never really used Pulse Lasers... I thought they were a waste of time due to weight and space... come on, Clan ER Large Laser deals same damage, runs a little bit hotter, and hits things further then Pulse Lasers, not to mention half the size and two tons lighter.
And UACs, are really for those who want that kind of firepower, I'd rather have a massive shotgun that can load slugs... makes me happy with LB-10X weapons, while UAC/10s in my humble opinion, are a bit too weighty for my tastes.
As to Inner Sphere duplicating Heavy Lasers... I doubt it, their tech is already inefficent as it is... (And that's why I'm 3025 or Clammer)
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Need...more...Nevcrack...
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Auren_Shiro]
#121311 - 11/28/05 06:20 AM (84.24.165.226)
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LBX vs tanks is too powerfull, but I was more thinking along the lines:
Who needs -2 or -1 to hit when you have gunnery 1?!? (As any good clan elite should have). Same for tc's, presicion ammo etc. 
Come to think of it, do presicion ammo and TC's stack?
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Rather to blow up, then.
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6324
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Toontje]
#121317 - 11/28/05 07:30 AM (24.243.178.223)
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Since when did having elite pilots become the norm? Last time I looked Clan average was 3 gunnery 4 pilot or vise versa.
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Auren_Shiro
Sergeant Major
Reged: 09/21/05
Posts: 276
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Karagin]
#121363 - 11/28/05 02:14 PM (65.96.9.70)
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RNG (Dice) mugged my opponent and gave me a 1/1 pilot once.
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Need...more...Nevcrack...
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Karagin]
#121368 - 11/28/05 03:00 PM (84.24.165.226)
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Yes, but tc's. lbx and pulse is for training, when the warriors are not able to hit something without aid. Any warrior worth their salt will hit without artificial pushing the odds in their favour.
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Rather to blow up, then.
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SSFSX17
Sergeant Major
Reged: 05/27/01
Posts: 277
Loc: Silicon Valley
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Karagin]
#121379 - 11/28/05 06:00 PM (70.187.176.211)
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The IS already has "PPC w/ Capacitor," so I think the answer is yes, they would copy the HLs, in a bit of a different way.
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Lousy good-for-nothing mortals. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6324
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Toontje]
#121384 - 11/28/05 08:28 PM (24.243.178.223)
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Then you must not use a lot of the variants or Prime configs for the omnis...
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Karagin]
#121396 - 11/29/05 01:57 AM (84.24.165.226)
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lol
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Rather to blow up, then.
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Auren_Shiro
Sergeant Major
Reged: 09/21/05
Posts: 276
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Toontje]
#121397 - 11/29/05 04:56 AM (24.34.100.170)
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I have to agree with the PPC w/ Capacitor route, I would think some sort of Large Laser with Capacitor could work, same damage, perhaps 5 more heat? It would balance out perhaps. I can't really tell you what tonnages would be, etc, but following the Capcitator, probably 1 ton with 1 crit with the laser, and the laser would be pushing 3/4 criticals in the end.
And I will admit it, I did become a clammer once by having a 30 tonner with TC and Heavy Large Lasers that moved 8/12.
The TC was there to accomdate the +1 modifier for Heavy Lasers, so it worked out in the end...
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Need...more...Nevcrack...
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6324
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Auren_Shiro]
#121428 - 11/29/05 02:43 PM (24.243.178.223)
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That at least makes use of the TC for what it was intented...it's the munchkins who abuse Pules/TargComp...
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Karagin]
#121434 - 11/29/05 03:49 PM (84.24.165.226)
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yep.
And TC-RAC5, also anüber-munch combintion.
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Rather to blow up, then.
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6324
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Toontje]
#121465 - 11/30/05 02:48 AM (24.243.178.223)
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Never seen anyone abuse RACs and TCs...normally the munchkin is going for the fast kill ala Pulse/Targ Combo.
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Karagin]
#121468 - 11/30/05 03:52 AM (84.24.165.226)
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Try to hit CT(R), at close range, full AC speed. Ultra rules apply here, if you hit, all hit the same location. First 2 to puncture trough, then 4 possible criticals as wel as 20 damage to the IS. Worse than an cl.UAC/20+tc, as it's lighter IIRC, better range, heat and ammo capacity.
Let's just call it a critseeker with armour penetration capabilities.
Or target an arm if it contains the enemies main weapon, or ammo stores, etc, etc.
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Rather to blow up, then.
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Auren_Shiro
Sergeant Major
Reged: 09/21/05
Posts: 276
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Toontje]
#121473 - 11/30/05 05:04 AM (24.34.100.170)
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Mmm... Munchy!
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Need...more...Nevcrack...
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6324
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Toontje]
#121478 - 11/30/05 08:09 AM (24.243.178.223)
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What page of the BMR-R is this on?
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Karagin]
#121495 - 11/30/05 01:03 PM (84.24.165.226)
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Don't have it on hand, but it should be with the RAC description (or ultra rules). Something along the lines of: Use ultra AC rules to resolve RAC attacks. And at the ultra section (or tc): Ultra ac's firing aimed at a location always hit with both shots at the same location.
Haven't got my BMR handy, but will look at it and come back with the answer tomorrow. Possibly it was errata'd since it's introduction, but highly unlikely.
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Rather to blow up, then.
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6324
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Toontje]
#121512 - 11/30/05 07:10 PM (24.243.178.223)
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I don't recall seeing either of those...but I can check.
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Auren_Shiro
Sergeant Major
Reged: 09/21/05
Posts: 276
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Karagin]
#121522 - 12/01/05 05:11 AM (24.34.100.170)
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Okay, I think the current vote has gotten down to the fact that if the IS was going to have Heavy Lasers, it would be done by the capacitor route, right?
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Need...more...Nevcrack...
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Karagin
General
Reged: 04/21/01
Posts: 6324
Loc: Ft. Hood TX (Killeen)
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Auren_Shiro]
#121560 - 12/01/05 02:09 PM (24.243.178.223)
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That is one possible way. I have seen plenty of level 4 aka home tech, versions of an IS heavy laser, they all normally seem to be as heavy as the PPC and do equal damage to the PPC with difference in heat and crits.
OR they go a different route, you get a 12 point damage set and range a little longer then the large lasers for a ton heavier and 2 to 4 points more in heat build up.
But the capacitor route could work...
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Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: Would the IS would every copy the Clan heavy lasers?
[Re: Karagin]
#121707 - 12/02/05 10:13 AM (84.24.165.226)
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Wasn't erratad, it is even in the equipment description of RAC's. (Subheader targeting computer: If the firing unit is using a tareting computer to aim at a specific location, and multiple shots hit, all the shots hit the targeted location. (p. 133))
So I was wrong, you still have to roll on missile hit table, but otherwise heavy poo.
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Rather to blow up, then.
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