Bloodhawk
Recruit
Reged: 01/31/03
Posts: 45
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IDF
#125162 - 02/07/06 03:38 PM (70.64.151.63)
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Well we all know IDF battles can be very slow, boring and tedious so I have a few ideas that should help IDF not be as dominate on the battlefield yet still serve its purpose.
1)Double Penalties For Movement
Artillery should be very difficult to use accurately on the move and should add +2/+4 when moving.
2)Increased hit numbers when firing on moving targets
While double to hit numbers for enemy movement may be a bit too extreme, hitting a moving target should be more difficult. This will actually encourage attackers to use less snipers because AI units generally always move to Ideal Range(although they can be stupid moves) and IDF towers the defender has will become less effective.
3)Decreased hit numbers for IDF v. towers
Yes this gives more power to the sniper but artillery is much more effective at taking out stationary forifications. Plus this helps counter the always annyoing IDF towers thus speeding up war.
4)Time to hit target
Well I have mixed feelings about this but by making it take a turn or so for IDF rounds to actually hit the target you might reduce the number of IDF units people use. Instead of increased hit numbers for enemy movement you would just count the targets movement in the turn the IDF was fired and the turn while round is in the air.
Well thats all for now, feel free to add more
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tranzoandris
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/27/05
Posts: 406
Loc: Wherever. Whoever. Whatever.
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Re: IDF
[Re: Bloodhawk]
#125166 - 02/07/06 04:58 PM (68.155.121.20)
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Good ideas. However, I still disagree with the time delay. Yes, it makes sense, but does it miss if the unit moves? Does the IDF home if the unit does move? Does there have to be a second roll for hit? Too many questions arrive for that. Yes to the moving targets and yes to decrease towers targeted. Also, I think the current movement penalties to hit are still effective.
In conclusion : I vote 2 and 3.
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"The lightning is a lone warrior. It strikes down all without care of what it hits. Just think what a controled army of lightning could do!"
-Undiscovered Journal of Konda in Kamigawa
Try the promo code "Swift is the wind"!
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CaBhaal
Lieutenant
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 599
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Re: IDF
[Re: Bloodhawk]
#125169 - 02/07/06 05:18 PM (24.32.87.123)
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I see we have more suggestions from someone who has obviously NEVER fought with or against IDF. Points taken in order:
#1. Most IDF units do not move. They are preplaced at 50, 50 and set on defend, or they attack from the map edge.
#2. IDF already has double penalties to hit moving targets, plus an additional +1.
#3. Already implemented. 25CF is +1 to hit. 50CF has no modifier. 75 CF is -1 to hit (easier). Progressively larger towers are easier to hit.
CaB
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MatthewAce
Captain
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Neveron
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Re: IDF
[Re: CaBhaal]
#125174 - 02/07/06 06:08 PM (202.156.6.52)
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just reduce tower range to x1.33 and x1.66, as well as nerf IDF2-10 by 3 hex in range. :P
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Urbies are good.
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: IDF
[Re: MatthewAce]
#125184 - 02/08/06 12:41 AM (71.100.240.191)
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idf fire has been used in every real war up to today. you want to give me more penalties fine let me park it off board so you cant shoot me like in real life.
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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Kas
Lieutenant
Reged: 03/16/05
Posts: 487
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Re: IDF
[Re: cbtgod]
#125186 - 02/08/06 12:51 AM (68.102.220.141)
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Yeah that'd make the game alot more balanced of fun.. You want realistic? Go sign up at the nearest armed forces recruiting station.
Off board artillery? Jesus you think IDF is screwed up now, allow players to sit back and bombard shit all day from off map and see how badly nev gets.
And bloodhawk, your suggestions would only make combat slower.
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MatthewAce
Captain
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Neveron
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Re: IDF
[Re: Kas]
#125188 - 02/08/06 01:29 AM (202.156.6.52)
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cbtgod's tone feels like he doesn't want to watch the overpowered weapons gets nerfed. :P
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Urbies are good.
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DireMage
Sergeant Major
Reged: 02/17/03
Posts: 264
Loc: Imperium Of Man
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Re: IDF
[Re: MatthewAce]
#125195 - 02/08/06 04:34 AM (66.229.193.94)
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kas, i'd like to point out that according to btmr a 'mapsheet' is 17 hexes and anything more than 17 hexes away is considered 'offboard' for purposes of artillery...so idf-2 basically has a range of 3 map sheets away. That's definitionally offboard. Neveron offers a much broader tactical overview than regular battletech...mostly because if each hex is an inch, you've got a 8.3x8.3 foot table, and i'd like to see anyone who wouldn't have trouble moving pieces in the middle 
Also, a long tom or an arrow-IV costs 1.5x as much as a gauss rifle or an ac-20 in c-bills. Long Tom weighs 30 tons and takes up 30 crits; Arrow-IV takes 15 and 15.Just something to think about
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- Live for honor
- Die for battle.
- Strive for light.
Edited by DireMage (02/08/06 04:40 AM)
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SubZero
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/13/05
Posts: 567
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Re: IDF
[Re: DireMage]
#125204 - 02/08/06 08:08 AM (130.82.111.150)
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there were DP mechs
they got nerfed with direct fire Towers
then the towers got nerfed with IDF
each time, the problems got worse
Don't you see that fixing something broke is not a solution? Removing it is!
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1791
Loc: europe
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Re: IDF
[Re: SubZero]
#125206 - 02/08/06 08:43 AM (139.174.165.124)
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them good old days, when i killed sturmfeurs with my AC2 Blackjack....
*sdoc starts dreaming again.
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MatthewAce
Captain
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Neveron
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Re: IDF
[Re: sdog]
#125210 - 02/08/06 12:09 PM (202.156.6.52)
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I refuse to think that removing it is the way to go. If you request for removal of IDF, why don't you remove towers as well then.
Once again, stop taking the easy way out. Unless there REALLy is no other solution you can find, which is plain rubbish.
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Urbies are good.
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Gunner
Sergeant Major
Reged: 07/11/04
Posts: 365
Loc: Hurricane Capital of the World
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Re: IDF
[Re: MatthewAce]
#125217 - 02/08/06 03:43 PM (172.150.173.165)
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I already said months ago in a different thread to take towers out along with IDF. Make this a fucking Mech game! When was the last time some n00b came into chat and was all excited wanting to know when he will be able to afford his first TX-L2 or Sniper? I sure as shit don't remember that happening. Usually they come in wanting to know how soon they can get a mech and why they cost so much. Tanks are here for filler, or at least they're supposed to be. It used to be everyone hated all tanks equally, and only used mechs for offense. Now it's quite rare to see someone get attacked, and them to bring out their own mechs to fight back. Instead, they ship them off to some safe island zone and send in their own snipers. How much more gayness must we put up with before someone pulls thier head out of their ass and takes out the IDF and towers and let's us have our fun again?
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It's a bird...It's a plane...Goddamit! It's another NUKE!
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1791
Loc: europe
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Re: IDF
[Re: Gunner]
#125219 - 02/08/06 04:24 PM (139.174.246.98)
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i hated all tanks equally.
but i don't do it anymore, now i hate snipers much more then any other tank.
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Celt
Sergeant
Reged: 12/14/03
Posts: 199
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Re: IDF
[Re: sdog]
#125221 - 02/08/06 04:45 PM (62.254.32.17)
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IDF/Towers are retarded, remove them both and refund people the scrap/salvage amount.
I quite liked low level lw with primarily vehicles, but most of the good lw vehicles still arent being produced, or are priced exorbitantly.
Edited by Celt (02/08/06 04:46 PM)
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sk7
Corporal
Reged: 09/01/05
Posts: 86
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Re: IDF
[Re: Celt]
#125222 - 02/08/06 05:04 PM (66.192.104.10)
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There are plenty of games out there if all you want are mechs. IDF needs to be balanced, but not removed. It was put for a reason, and removing it entirely just brings back the problem is was introduced to solve. Now if only Randy would listen to what ppl say about IDF. Instead he just works on making more stupid changes.
And if you want more mechs, the problem is the ridiculous price. IDF is only half the problem.
As for towers, I personally like them, but only for the fact that they're the only thing i can customize (unless you count random upgrades) without using DP.
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Malachi
Sergeant Major
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 369
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Re: IDF
[Re: sk7]
#125225 - 02/08/06 05:37 PM (62.254.128.6)
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how many of you actually face uber mechs like rhinos n nemis on a regular basis? Theres little over 100 total in the game out of nearly 3 million units.
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MatthewAce
Captain
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Neveron
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Re: IDF
[Re: sk7]
#125226 - 02/08/06 05:46 PM (202.156.6.52)
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Quote:
There are plenty of games out there if all you want are mechs. IDF needs to be balanced, but not removed. It was put for a reason, and removing it entirely just brings back the problem is was introduced to solve. Now if only Randy would listen to what ppl say about IDF. Instead he just works on making more stupid changes.
And if you want more mechs, the problem is the ridiculous price. IDF is only half the problem.
As for towers, I personally like them, but only for the fact that they're the only thing i can customize (unless you count random upgrades) without using DP.
I second that. Well said.
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Urbies are good.
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1791
Loc: europe
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Re: IDF
[Re: Malachi]
#125228 - 02/08/06 06:11 PM (139.174.246.98)
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Quote:
how many of you actually face uber mechs like rhinos n nemis on a regular basis? Theres little over 100 total in the game out of nearly 3 million units.
if you continue your LW with that pace, i'd say every second lvl5 and lvl6 empire.
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I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: IDF
[Re: sdog]
#125237 - 02/09/06 02:09 AM (71.100.240.191)
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i dont use idf towers now so dont care if they go. but i dont see why mobile idf would have to go? i mean once you get under the min range they are dead meat anyway. and i know alot of cheese dicks that use companies of snipers i wont lie when i attack i use only 4 with 2-2s along with 4 light mechs with and 4 support vechs most of the time hunters. then they will get rid of or change idf and add some other stupid shit and then everyone will break that system too what else is new?
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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MatthewAce
Captain
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Neveron
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Re: IDF
[Re: cbtgod]
#125239 - 02/09/06 02:13 AM (202.156.6.52)
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because they guard the IDF with brutes that is a lance of assaults?
Seriously though, I don't wish for IDF to go, neither do I want towers to be vanquished.
All it needs is nerfing.
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Urbies are good.
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: IDF
[Re: MatthewAce]
#125240 - 02/09/06 02:18 AM (71.100.240.191)
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you are correct most of you vets do that. and most of the noobs dont?
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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MatthewAce
Captain
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Neveron
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Re: IDF
[Re: cbtgod]
#125241 - 02/09/06 02:34 AM (202.156.6.52)
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I may be a vet, but i don't even have a company of snipers.
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Urbies are good.
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1791
Loc: europe
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Re: IDF
[Re: MatthewAce]
#125243 - 02/09/06 04:00 AM (139.174.165.124)
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they are a necessity at larger levels.
and light vehicles don't even get below minimum range. usually the worst that happens is a sniper with a 0/0 movement crit, you couldn't retreat.
war at lvl8+ is practicaly siegeing cities, sending two comps snipers + 1 comp mechs in. kill some stuff, pull out again.
and it's not just that it's done cause we like it, but it is a requirement for todays city defenses.
the only reason for the defending direct fire vehicles are to prevent the attacker from storming in and killing the IDF.
in my little LW empire i got only 3 snipers. doing most of the actual war with mechs. but also a demo idf to guard them. at gun -3 this bastard hits even moving mechs quite well.
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I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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SubZero
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/13/05
Posts: 567
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Re: IDF
[Re: MatthewAce]
#125252 - 02/09/06 07:47 AM (130.82.111.148)
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Quote:
If you request for removal of IDF, why don't you remove towers as well then.
less stealth tower hunting needed is good, lets remove them too
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1791
Loc: europe
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Re: IDF
[Re: SubZero]
#125254 - 02/09/06 07:55 AM (139.174.165.124)
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stealth towers aren't so hard to find anymore.
for you can't run the timer as defender and ecm was reduced to 3.
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MatthewAce
Captain
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Neveron
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Re: IDF
[Re: SubZero]
#125255 - 02/09/06 09:07 AM (202.156.6.52)
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Quote:
Quote:
If you request for removal of IDF, why don't you remove towers as well then.
less stealth tower hunting needed is good, lets remove them too
What did I say about taking the lazy man way out? :P
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Urbies are good.
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: IDF
[Re: MatthewAce]
#125256 - 02/09/06 09:40 AM (71.100.240.191)
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remove stealth towers? dam lets just get rid of all the vech,towers, and infra?
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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MatthewAce
Captain
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Neveron
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Re: IDF
[Re: cbtgod]
#125258 - 02/09/06 09:44 AM (202.156.6.52)
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yes yes, then remove the arenas, and then remove your control from the mech, then AI do everything for you.
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Urbies are good.
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SubZero
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/13/05
Posts: 567
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Re: IDF
[Re: MatthewAce]
#125260 - 02/09/06 10:28 AM (130.82.111.159)
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after 10 zones, it gets pretty dam booring
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Celt
Sergeant
Reged: 12/14/03
Posts: 199
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Re: IDF
[Re: SubZero]
#125262 - 02/09/06 11:18 AM (62.254.32.17)
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I'm sorry for thinking that a weapon that's basically an "I Win!" button should be removed, after all vehicle/mech fighting is so boring compared to sniping, retreating, sniping, retreating.
Towers are fine if they get range modifies removed(or maybe have 75cf+ have a 1.2 range mod because of height or something)
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