Stealth Armor Clarification

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KitK
11/20/05 11:03 PM
69.11.17.169

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Do I have this right?

A 'Mech with stealth armor engaged is considered inside enemy ECM and therefore cannot use (or only use when stealth is disengaged) --
** C3 & C3i targeting and target sharing
** Artemis IV FCS missile homing
** NARC Beacon missile homing
** BAP sensors

Assuming that is right, would the stronger Bloodhound probe be able to overpower the steath armor, therefore becoming viable as a sensor?

The rule states a Guardian ECM is to be used but could and Angel ECM be used instead (presumably nullifying the use of a Bloodhound as well as Streak SRM target locking circuits).

One other unrelated question. Is there a chart out there somewhere that lists all the weapons and the factions that have access to them?

Thanks
Karagin
11/21/05 12:12 AM
24.243.178.223

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Page 147 in the BMR-R gives you the updated rules, but you more or less have the basics.

There is no list that breaks weapons down by faction. Given that any house can use the other's tech, with the excpetion of Stealth armor, the rest of the tech is open to all of the houses if they want to spend the money. Or if they are WoB they don't have to pay for anything, they just get it.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
CrayModerator
11/21/05 09:08 AM
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Quote:

There is no list that breaks weapons down by faction.




Yes there is. I know I've seen it. There's a list that follows the re-introduction of IS tech from 3020 to 3067, faction by faction, year by year. Maybe Merc Sup 2?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Toontje
11/21/05 02:23 PM
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Any IS house can use stealth afaik.. A shame, a possibility to add a note on the house that developed/deployed the equipment in BMR would have been so helpfull to deter powerplayers. (But I'm IS, so that means I can use stealth and HGR's!)

Where are the days a clan LPL-TC combination ws considerered powerplay? (sight)
Rather to blow up, then.
Karagin
11/21/05 11:16 PM
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Which is pointless given that the houses have being using the same weapons for centuries and no one had sole use of anything.

Merc Sup2 might have one, but still beyond "fluff" named items which means very little since company A can still sell to nation D either legally or illegally means everyone still what their neighbor has.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
11/21/05 11:18 PM
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What would have been helpful would have been to name the armor something else...but then again they had the system already named Null Signature System, but they had laspe or something and made one version aka the Stealth armor, level 2 and the other level 3 aka the Null Signature System...

And both are very similar in what they do via the original fluff for the Null System.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
tbird89
11/22/05 12:32 AM
69.167.173.67

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it always pisses me off when someone tags me with an inarc, then hit me with crazy marik made submunitions, or when someone has both a Targeting comp and a HG. wtf is up with all this crazy mixing bs? i'm a comgaurd player, i use only comgaurd tech. yeah, i do wish i could add targeting comps to my mechs, or mrms, or whatever, but i stick with comgaurd tech (well, most of the time, i've found some loopholes that allow to use some Draconis Combine Tech because of special rules for my Division, as described in the comgaurd handbook).
why? becuase. jesus told me to. and you wanna know something else that jesus told me? he said that everytime it rains, it's becuase god is crying over something u did. because god hates you.
so does superman
Karagin
11/22/05 05:25 AM
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What's stopping you? Nothing really given that everyone can buy mechs from everyone else...as well as weapons.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Auren_Shiro
11/22/05 08:27 AM
24.34.100.170

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I don't see why you can't, after all, buy a battlemech with desired equipment, and don't buy omnis... stupid GMs say they have nothin'
Need...more...Nevcrack...
Toontje
11/22/05 10:07 AM
84.24.165.226

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A question of availlaility, would mrm's be availlable elsewere? Probably, but would you want a sub-standard lrm rack?

HGR and TC are remotely related, since both are from the late FC. But use common sense, a single out-of-house special is possible in a company, but not every time.

Personlly I'd love some marik special ammo, but as CC player, it is hard to come by since the cooling of relations. And davion special ammo? No way, except maybe 1 ton a single time.

All the oldtech was similar, since it was more or less inherited from the SL era, and after many, many years of industrial espionage and no real improvements everyone had the same tech level. But newtech needs time to dissipate troughout the armies of the universe, not 10, but more like 100 years.

(edit)
Fluff is good, hmm!
{/edit)
Rather to blow up, then.


Edited by Toontje (11/22/05 10:08 AM)
Karagin
11/22/05 07:23 PM
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How can you try to say that some one won't sell the stuff...if that was the case then ONLY the FWL would have ER lasers in the IS, but wait everyone has them and oh wait everyone can make them now...

There is always the blackmarket and if you think a House military Intell and R&D groups aren't laying hands on what the other side has then well that's how you play then...

And who's to say they don't get the weapons via battlefield salavage...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
11/22/05 07:24 PM
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If that is your GMs call then that's his or her call...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
tbird89
11/23/05 12:22 AM
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well, actually, marik is one of the more commerce orientated of the houses, so i can see it selling off lasers (especially since they were the only ones not hit by the clans). but what about the comgaurds, can you see them selling off c3i's? or the cappelans selling their stealth armor? no way.and actually, heavy gauss rifles are lyran equipment, while TC's are more davion made. thats why there are list of mechs available to each faction. i mean, why do you think the periphery is not sporting Templar omni mechs? the magistry of canopus is as wealthy as most of the great houses, it could afford to buy them. as in regards to salvage, lets just look at this as logic. using, maintaining, and buying ammo for weapons not made by that faction is MUCH more expensive than simply replacing it with normal parts. and what are the chances the lyrans will salvage stealth armor when there hasn't been a major engagement between the lyran alliance and the capellan confederation since the invention of the stealth armor? and yes, it could be easy for r and D and intelligence groups to obtain these items, but what about the time it takes to actually get those things into major production, and then mass distribute those things. also, i SERIOUSLY doubt that any house units is allowed to gather supplies from the black market (i'm not saying it doesn't happen, it's just rare and isolated, unless your like the vegan regiments or something)
why? becuase. jesus told me to. and you wanna know something else that jesus told me? he said that everytime it rains, it's becuase god is crying over something u did. because god hates you.
so does superman
Karagin
11/23/05 06:28 AM
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You really need to look again at the mechs, folks can get what they want from many different sources and nothing is preventing Davion from fielding a mech with C3i or with a HGR, beyond money issues which could limit how many of these things they can buy.

It doesn't take much to go from a prototype to front line units in the BT universe. IF it was hard for groups to get what the other nations have or come up with countermeasures etc...then we wouldn't see a splinter group like WoB go from NOTHING to a major threat in the amount of time we have seen this happen.

So while it would be wonderful and believable for each house to have tech that would and should be theirs and theirs alone, it just doesn't seem to be HOW the BT universe works.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Toontje
11/24/05 06:05 AM
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Money issues are excacly what we (well, I) was talking about. It's not a hard rule, but a houses availlable tech should mainly be house tech. TRO's have fogged the area up a bit by putting out stock versions of 'mechs with special tech.

I don't mind some E/F units geting other house tech, but not every line and 2nd line unit will have it.

Diffusion of the tech to other houses as standard should take many, many years. Oldtech and lostech is more all-round, and thus more or less availlable to everyone (Tho marik has (had?) little ppc's, etc).
Rather to blow up, then.
Karagin
11/24/05 09:49 AM
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But you see it's NOT a rule.

Marik has been selling new tech to all that can buy it, and given that both the Lyrans and the Fedrats have beening buying and making their own versions of the FWL ER lasers makes hash out saying new tech is only for one house...

And also given that the FedSuns and Lyrans just had one hell of a war, they will be rearming with everything they can and if that means new tech ends up on mechs that happen to be made in the FWL then that's what they get.

The problem is no rules were ever set down stating that one house has this item and only this item and no other house can use it. As stated in I the original TRO 3050, it said that NAIS and other similar groups could make IS versions of Clan tech but the cost was too high, YET the IS makes some of the omnis of theirs able to use captured Clan tech.

So bottom line nothing is "exslusive" to anyone house really, and the only expection to this right now was Stealth armor but I do believe that the uber group WoB is using it as well so that means again everything is aviable to anyone who wants to use it or buy it.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Toontje
11/24/05 11:23 AM
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Didn't hear of wobbies doing it but still don't have 67 and project pheoniks.

I don't mind tech dissipting, but same as 'mechs, it is signatury for a house. I can live with say 10% off-house tech. I'm both thinking about fluff and players here, it's more nice to have some fingerprint of the house you face (and play), than lance generic from house IS. (Or clan, although clan afaik is more generic in general.)
Rather to blow up, then.
Karagin
11/24/05 01:36 PM
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I agree it would be nice IF certain houses had tech that only they could use. But given how generic the whole IS is and how generic the weapons are the limited use weapons wouldn't be popular with the players.

The fingerprints come in the type of mechs used...like Catapults and Vindicators by Laio and Enforcers and Riflemen by Davion etc...these whole true for the most part.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Toontje
11/24/05 01:51 PM
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Agreed.

And when playing stock, that solves most problems I have with overuse of other-house tech, as well.

Same for ammo types, mainly used ought to be special ammo produced by ones faction. Hmm, fluffy.. (bellybutton fluff?)
Rather to blow up, then.
Karagin
11/24/05 02:03 PM
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Best thing to is house rules it (aka Level 4 stuff) and make sure all your players agree.

But if you play at conventions you will find that all of the tech is being used and no one seems to care about who should have it or not.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Toontje
11/24/05 08:09 PM
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I don't really play a lot at all lately (bit of a falling out with the previous group), but personally I play 99% CC, and most other players I played against play quite like that too. Might be because of ridiculing people who don't and still lose (helps to be a V/F player) to a housespecific build unit.
Rather to blow up, then.
Drasnighta
02/17/06 10:08 PM
202.147.104.210

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Page 88 of merc sup 2 has the table.

Personally, i believe that there is a difference between available, and readily available... one is to sell at a massive markup black market style, the other is to have competition...

Besides, 3067, the only stuff that is not readily available around the sphere is the iNarc, and iC3 system... And even then, that is "readily available"... Anyone associated with the ComGuards or WoB (which includes the FWL) would have some as examples, just not "general issue" as of yet...

If you are playing an earlier timezone, if its been developed somewhere, its possible - just maybe hard to justify...

Shigunga is a company, and they will sell to who will buy... If the DCMS wants to buy their entire stock of MRMs, then great... But if not, they are going to look to another market at a markup...

There is an interesting discussion of it in the front of the new house steiner book, where basically the FWL has taken back a mechworks planet, but the company has a contract to the LA, so Marik builds them, and they are shipped off to the enemy...


There are rules for it, but it only counts if you HAVE the rules, and you WANT to use them... Thats why the table exists
CEO Heretic BattleMechs.
KamikazeJohnson
02/19/06 04:00 PM
205.200.6.170

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Quote:


There is an interesting discussion of it in the front of the new house steiner book, where basically the FWL has taken back a mechworks planet, but the company has a contract to the LA, so Marik builds them, and they are shipped off to the enemy...





And that kind of thing happens in the real world too, so it's not really a stretch...there was a time in the ongoing wars between England and France in the Colonial days...they were at war, but the ships of the French Navy were insured through Lloyds of London
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Toontje
02/20/06 05:56 PM
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Been most of history like that, the Dutch sold the Spaniards bronze cannons after all.

Only these days governments are not pleased selling to 'the enemy'.
Rather to blow up, then.
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