LAS Arthur Steiner Davion

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chez
08/08/06 09:25 PM
62.173.81.122

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I am re-reading Fed-Com civil war books and the case of the missing warship is perplexing me

It reads as if there was something REALLY big coming but is that like a massive shockwave thing that took out the Arthur Steiner Davion or was it just a fleet of battleships that blew poor Arthur away before they could send a message?

chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
Venom
08/08/06 11:21 PM
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It has been years since I read the fiction, but I thought it got rammed into the atmosphere. And I thought that the "big thing comming" was against the Dracs and it was a Leviathan. I am sure that someone will set us both straight.
Toontje
08/09/06 06:29 AM
84.24.178.225

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Atmosphere was Robert Steiner IIRC.. But that very big thing might as well have been LCS Invincible, with some jamming device covering the boarding of the Arthur S-D
Rather to blow up, then.
Karagin
08/09/06 06:57 AM
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Another WoB wonder operation that nets them another warship for their uber navy....
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Toontje
08/09/06 08:32 AM
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Not that far-fetched... Crazy Jane manouver prevents jumping out.
Rather to blow up, then.
sdog
08/09/06 09:11 AM
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where did all of a sudden come all those warships from?
at the status of the fiction i know there was only one place where HF drives could be produced, in an automatet factory from Starleague, noone was interupting while running. well, and there were also the clans...

and suddenly, like 5 years later, there are gigantic war navies, with jump capable capital ships.

I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...

- Skaven, ArmA modding community
Toontje
08/09/06 11:14 AM
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Government Crash Programs, after teh information was largely disseminated by boh helm core and copies, and the new, heretic comstar. The problem was mainly the lack of knowledge. After that, upgrade the shiyards, buy all the germanium you can, and about 2 ships annually are the result.

Remember the history of the SBR (Styrene-butadiŽne rubber): After Japan took the world 99% rubber production countries at the onset of WWII in the east, SBR production commenced IIRC 2 year later commercially.
Rather to blow up, then.
sdog
08/09/06 12:08 PM
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yes, but there's a huge difference between rubber production and building warships.

i mean even if you get all the plans, and even production details of the KF factories, you still need to train the workers, the engineers etc. then you will need lots of test programs until it actually runs.

you also need a lot of industry producing components, the inner sphere wasn't even able to produce cheap control chips for their missile weapons! just think about the weapons, Naval PPC, hundreds of normal PPCs. Marik was producing less than few dozen PPCs a year, at the 4th succesion war.

much simpler things like Dropships, like Overlords were also Lostech! so there was not even a functional industry to build large sized spaceships on planet.

even if you have the ships, you need to train the crews, the officers etc. this alone would take sevaral years, and you have to wait for the experience to get gaines by the first crews, before they can train new crews. so the start will be slow.

I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...

- Skaven, ArmA modding community
Karagin
08/09/06 12:10 PM
214.13.130.100

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If you say so...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
08/09/06 12:14 PM
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Blame it on FASA's add water and get what ever you need to push the story forward even if it goes against the canon facts etc...

I blame that on Nystul and his time as LD, the true Dark Age of Battletech.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
08/09/06 12:20 PM
214.13.128.178

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I have pointed out the same thing, but they (TPTB) and their supports will not listen...so while we have a vaild point and one that hasn't been answered it is as if the TPTB don't want to admit they didn't plan the whole Jihad and it's parts out well enough and now have to play catch up.

The training issue goes hand in hand with their uber army as well as the warships and does the money issue, and the supplies and other logistical items. The list is a mile long and growing and yet TPTB and their supports don't want to deal with it. Why they don't can only be guessed at.

You have a very vaild point and it's nice to see other folks pointing out the red flags and red herrinng that should be plain enough for all to see.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Toontje
08/09/06 01:33 PM
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Well, for the rubber example, there was a knowledge base but no industry. Extrapolating, the resources of a successor state should be big enough to fully crew such a project. The first WS where IIRC old SL designs, so the design part of the process can be skipped. Construction should take a minimum of 1 year, without refurbishing old shipyards before that construction can begin.

I agree with consistency between 3028 and 3048 being a bit, let's say weak. However a nearly fully devastated country like post-WWII Germany was rather quickly rebuild, partially thanks to the Marshall program. The weak part is mainly twofold: Raiding, what devastated most of the border economies, continued, and truely unaffected regions to draw rebuilding support from were scarce.*

On a side note, dropship construction continued troughout the SWs. Some desings produced at specific locations might have been taken out of production, but DS were being constructed (slowly).

There is something to say for naval grade weapons not really needing a specific support industry: After all, what is a nPPC other than a custom-build PPC? (There is a PPC tech base; When you got the plans for bigger ones; I would suppose supplied by comstar; always good to have a source of previous lost knowledge, tho it is a bit of overused augument. Comstar is a bit too Deus Ex Machina solution to be pretty. Similar with part of the production base, WS system drives being produced on Terra etc.)

* Similar to nev, if you got big friends, rebuilding is fast and easy: if you have no big friends, it becomes a pain.
Rather to blow up, then.
chez
08/09/06 07:06 PM
62.173.81.122

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So what's the deal with WoB and this Leviathan class WarShip?

Is that the reason behind LAS Arthur Steiner Davion's disappearance?

Was it destroyed or just boarded and hijacked?

On WarShip construction - it is entirely possible that WarShip construction does take place post Helm-Core but the glitch is the fact that the ability to make them was lost during the Succession Wars.

The whole Lostech thing is a joke as there are loads of planets deep inside borders that have never been subject to the kind of total war required to blow mankind back several generations of technology. Surely some of these had at least part of a memory core.
Also if you were Prince/Co-ordinator/Archon etc if you realised that your realm was in danger of losing this data you would ensure there were multiple copies secreted around.
I know it was the Star League that controlled these databases but if you found yourself controlling 20% of known space you would make it a priority to obtain this information and safeguard it.

Please before anyone discredits the above , can I please have an answer to the missing WarShip question as that was the purpose of the thread.


chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
Toontje
08/10/06 01:10 AM
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The actual answer most likely is:

It is fluff, there are multiple options. I personally am unaware of further writeups of the A S-D, but my best guess is capture or destruction by LCS Invincible. (Or a Rathanos) A Levianth is also an option, then capture/destruction by clans.
Rather to blow up, then.
Karagin
08/10/06 09:11 AM
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Or any other large ship that hits the 2.5 million ton mark...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
chez
08/10/06 02:04 PM
62.173.81.122

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It seems strange that the fluff writers missed out on an opportunity to detail a space battle or even just tie up a loose end.

If it was a Clan or Comstar then that would put a different spin on the FedCom Civil War.

Also what is a Crazy Jane manouver?
I am assumig it's just jumping close to a ship already in place preventing them from jumping out

Ps. Nice to see some life in Sarna


chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
Toontje
08/11/06 02:09 AM
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Wel, more or less since fasa kicked the bucket, more roleplay hooks seem to be put in source material, kind of the old days before I played.

Therefore, mystery is afoot. Maybe a bit of a shame WoB was very much tagged as the perpetraitor of teh A S-D bombing at the start of the FC CW, could have been a clasic who did it story. A S-D still is an option for that rescue guy after brainwash etc, as IIRC there was no body.

Aff on the Crazy Jane.
Rather to blow up, then.
Striker
08/14/06 11:00 PM
65.217.205.34

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If I am not mistake at the end of the book where Arthur was "Blow up" there is a small section in the end that had a couple of guys waking him up and telling him it was time to leave. Who knows, maybe it was WoB, I don't know.



But you are correct there was no body found.
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