chez
08/19/06 11:47 AM
62.173.81.122
|
I was looking at various dropships' capacity and then tried to do some maths as to what you would need to move a complete RCT around.
Bearing in mind the "book" strength of an RCT is :-
1 regiment of mechs
3 regiments of armour
5 regiments of infantry
Add in an aerospace fighter contingent
Non-combat vehicles eg coolant trucks, J27s, MASH units, HQ elements, gravediggers, logistics chain,
intelligence section etc ad nauseum.
So however you look at it you need a lot of dropship capacity including several "big" ones eg. Overlord, Excalibur but the key thing is personnel.
5 regiments of infantry is about 20000 front line troops. Conventional thinking calls for about 3 blokes behind the scenes for every shooter.
So unless we get ubermunchie and say 3 overlords and about 7 excaliburs and a behemoth for expendables can you move an RCT at all.
As soon as you use leopards or unions your jumpship requirements start getting silly.
In a universe where we are constantly told of the scarcity of such assets it becomes a logistics nightmare to relocate and crucially keep supplied a unit of this size.
As far as supply goes, I see army trucks all the time but rarely any fighting vehicles so to keep all of these people in food, water, ammo, fuel etc must require a massive amount of J27 type things all of which must be carried from A to B when the RCT relocates.
Can someone have a look at this and see what their transport requirements would be because I am starting do disbelieve my own figures.
Thanks
chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
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Toontje
08/19/06 01:38 PM
84.24.178.225
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Flatbed truck, and I believe there is a support vehicle TRO coming out, or some support vehicles are detailled in a book. Also, don't forget a DS can double as a supply vehicle/forward base, as it has mech cubicles wherein basic mech repairs can be done.
Mind as well, a RCT will most likely not move all at the same time, but require some back and fro hops.
Smaller dropships will be used, as the bigger ones are expensive. Also, when raiding using a lance or company, no need to bring an overlord when a set of leopards or an union will do.
Aeroighters either have a dedicated carrier, and most likely never touch down as it will orbit, or are already assigned a place in a dropship.
Will take a look at 3058 to see what you'd need for such a force to move it all at 1 time, using standard mech transports. (a regiment is only 9 unions after all.. Unless it is a star league regiment, which is, hmm.. 256 mechs large? (4 batts of 4 companies of 4 lances = SLDF standard unless I'm mistaken)
Rather to blow up, then.
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chez
08/19/06 02:23 PM
62.173.81.122
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I know a mech regiment is only 9 unions to transport or 3 overlords etc and that has never really been an issue. The key point is all the support stuff - tanks, infantry, artillery etc.
That is where the massive dropship requirement comes in and what differentiates a mech regiment from an RCT.
If fighters are carried in dedicated carriers, that's fine but it is another dropship or 2 to be hauled on a jumpship.
A relocation is one thing but I am talking about a planetary assault which will require as much force as possible. Why have all of the attached units if you can't use them on a combat drop?
chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
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Cray
08/21/06 08:17 AM
147.160.136.10
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Quote:
In a universe where we are constantly told of the scarcity of such assets it becomes a logistics nightmare to relocate and crucially keep supplied a unit of this size.
Absolutely. If you recall, House Davion strangled its own economy during the 4th Succession War - before the interdiction - by moving both its militia units and front-line RCTs at the same time. Hanse had to confiscate merchant shipping to manage the feat. The AFFS didn't have enough jumpships to accomplish the task, and it took so many merchant jumpships to move all those troops that the FS economy was harmed.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Greyslayer
08/21/06 01:06 PM
216.14.198.52
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Why would most of the 'pencil necks' need to travel with the main fleet? Sure a % of the support staff would need to travel with the main fleet but that would still not be as much as what you would be talking about.
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sdog
08/22/06 02:54 PM
139.174.165.124
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they could send all the administrative (and personel that cleans telephone receivers) to a remote unpleasant planet. (and die subsequently of a disease spread by unclean telephone receivers, while the adminstrative staff survives)
i suppose hanse davion installed hammer space on all his dropships to move his regimental combat groups during the 4th sucession war. hammer space has proven as the most reliable form of storage in fiction.
I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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Venom
08/23/06 11:40 PM
63.241.182.3
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All the houses "borrowed" dropships/jumpships during times of war. In the Steiner house book it talks about how after major military campaigns the ships would be needed to perform mercy missions to neglected worlds before comerce could restart. But with multi-generational conflicts like the 3rd war it makes it hard to belive.
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Toontje
08/25/06 05:42 PM
84.24.178.225
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Ok, infantry: 27 platoons to a regiment, would take 2 condors + a Fury to transport a single regiment. IIRC, a RCT is a reg of mechs, 5-8 of lesser? (iirc 3 vehicle, 5 infantry).
Combat troops would thus far require 9DS (mechs), 9DS (infantry), and 24 vehicles already acounted for.. (let's make those field kitchens.)
Triumph a batt vehicles each, so another 9 DS for those.
You can swap a Fury and a Triumph for a Hercules, tho it is post-4th SW. This would reduce the dropships used by 9.
So total is about 27 DS for frontline troops. Infantry can survive without support personel for a month, otherwise add a Condor or 2 for some MASH and other support: Total for a complete transit combat-ready, about 30 DS. This boils down to 10 JS (averaging to Invaders, some Merchants and Star Lords). Vehicles and mechs have repair capabilities in the mech and vehicle cubicles.
This configuration would give 18 fighters as fighter escort. Not a lot, so you can add 2-3 DS as assault dropship or fighter carrier, and another JS.
Say another trip for the remaining support personel.
Rather to blow up, then.
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chez
08/30/06 12:02 AM
62.173.81.122
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A sensible and well thought out reply.
Now allow me to give a less sensible but still well thought out idea-
POTEMKIN CLASS TROOP CRUISERS!!!
Unfortunately even a Potemkin won't carry 30 Dropships so we will have to lose some of the smaller D-ships and replace them with Overlords and Excaliburs. All the more so as a Potemkin is the most expensive thing ever built (planets can cost less).
Because of the size of the investment it would be lunacy to send them anywhere without support so-
A few Vengeance D-ships to provide fighter cover or maybe a Thera class carrier
A few ship-killer D-ships
A couple of other WarShips to round out the task force
A Behemoth/Mammoth to move the 250,000 tons of cargo.
All said the fleet will represent a sizeable dent in any House's economy (a single mis-jump could cause a fall in a major house due to their economy collapsing)
Joking apart, I read that there is a variant on the Excalibur that allows it to take 36 mechs instead of all the other stuff. Are there any stats for it because an Excalibur is over 50% bigger than an Overlord, carries no fighters and is less well armed. What happens to all the wasted tonnage?
Surely it could be modified to carry about 72 mechs and 12 fighters or whatever.
Has anybody done variant using the drawing board thing (I neither have nor understand such things)?
Warship/dropship design always seemed a bit power-gamey (he says after discussing the merits of Potemkin class cruisers)
chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
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Toontje
08/30/06 07:33 AM
84.24.178.225
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Variants usually are possible and within the system.
WS's do have better capaity, but since you were talking about an RCT, they usually are transported by jumpship.. Also, a WS is worth enough to attach some dedicated DS Aero carriers and assault DS.
10 JS is not that much, tho sually a RCT will have to contend with less transport capability.. After all, for a raid in force you only need some mechs (say regiment) with some LZ security (say a batt of inf/tanks). Would be 3-4 JS needed, a far less disrupting practice. For lesser raids, a battalion or even company sized elements would be ok.
Rather to blow up, then.
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Venom
08/31/06 11:45 PM
63.241.182.3
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I played around with the numbers a little and I came up with a couple of 50,000 ton DSs. One is configured to haul the 'mechs and infantry and the other holds the armor. They have plenty of cargo room for armor, ammo, etc... They are also well armored and armed. It sounds a bit munchy, but the ability to transport an entire RCT on one average size JS has got to be attractive to the AFFC. And neccesity is the mother of invention so with something like this I think that if it could be done it would be done.
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Toontje
09/02/06 06:08 PM
84.24.178.225
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Single JS jump costs 50.000 C-bills for every DS carried. Simple calculation, how many DS jumping capacity would be saved by using your proposed DS, and what are the costs compared to standard Mech/armour carriers?
(As well as comparable defensive firepower on those DS.. a Union makes for a decently defended base vs up to lance sized patrols, and in flight auguments any escorts... standard Fortresses are supposed to be scary on a BT battlefield.)
Rather to blow up, then.
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Venom
09/02/06 07:32 PM
63.241.182.3
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I would have to get a DS editor so that I could post the designs here. Any suggestions?
If it were me I would carry them on a WS. That would allow them to burn in system while still carrying the DSs. The combined firepower would likely overwhelm any areospace defenders.
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Toontje
09/03/06 05:08 AM
84.24.178.225
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Never design DS, so no idea.. IIRC HM aero does them. WS are vulnerable to aerofighters, bettrer have a carrier or 2 with the WS at all times...
Also, with every military around having about 20 of them, it is not feasable to use them as transport except in extreme circumstances (invasion). Better to lose a regiment or 10 than a single WS.
For command and control purposes, a dedicated WS(s) and support group can be used as escorts for a single mission, but waay to valuable to loiter after the move in system and risk to be pinned down by enemy naval assets. Moving and unknown location are crucial for their survival.
but we're disgressing, DS were the subject..
Rather to blow up, then.
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chez
09/05/06 10:53 PM
62.173.81.122
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I have posted a design contest with all of these thoughts in mind on the AT2 forum.
Looking forward to all your input
chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
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Nightward
09/17/06 03:01 AM
203.206.65.166
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If you have a look at the period RCTs were introduced in (the 3025 era), the typical combat force was a Company, with Batallions usually only dispatched to launch planetary assualts. Deploying Regiment-sized forces (to say nothing of an RCT) was a massive effort, and would typically only be done with a House's most elite forces (the Sword of Light, Genyosha, Davion Guard, and units in that league).
Hanse Davion turned "modern" tactical thinking on its head when he invaded the Capellan Confederation. Nobody had used (or even attempted to coordinate) forces that size since the Reunification War and the very most early days of the Sucession Wars. I doubt that anyone had even dreamt of pulling a stunt like that within 150 years of the invasion.
After that, everyone started playing catch-up. The Combine had the ARC scheme in place long before, but other House units were finding themselves with permanantly-attached elements they'd never had before and expected to be able to coordinate combined-arms actions with them.
In reality, RCTs only became militarily viable post-3050, with the re-application of various types of LosTech, including WarShips and the ability to better manufacture spacefaring vessels.
Even then, as displayed by the FedCom Civil War, you need to divert an incredible number of civilian vessels from their ordinary duties in order to undertake major military operations. That was one of the reasons Katherine was able to keep up her hijinks so long- and how she grounded so many troops loyal to Victor.
RCTs were mainly ready reserves in the event of invasion, or used to defend capitol worlds. The Capellan Invasion and Operations Bulldog and Serpent aren't you normal affairs. Usually an RCT just sits still and looks scary, which is more or less all it needs to do.
After all, you need a three-to-one advantage to make an attack worth staging. How much do you want to move three or more 'Mech regiments and all their assorted support needs to attack the other guy's elite forces?
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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chez
03/19/08 06:35 PM
62.173.81.122
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I found a web site the other day (by accident) and now I can't find it again.
Anyway it was for the Davion Heavy Guard and was a complete TRO for the unit. I know it's not canon but someone has gone to a lot of effort to work it all out
So they had said it was 72 dropships of various classes and 20 jumpships to move the RCT.
That's a lot even for the Davion Heavy Guard
chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
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Frabby
03/21/08 09:53 AM
87.164.235.135
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Venom already pointed out something important: While it may be close to impossible to move a full RCT in one go using combat DropShips, you can still move them on large civilian cargo haulers. Civilian ships can transport 'Mechs and tanks like any other commodity, just it takes some time to unload them before they are ready to fight. Unsuitable for attacks, but fair enough for any other troop movement.
So to answer the question, I suppose if one had to move an entire RCT in one go, Mammoth and Mule class transports would be the ships of choice. (Only infantry is more efficiently carried aboard designated infantry carriers.)
It has been done. I read somewhere in a canon source that House Davion sent lots of Behemoth-class DropShips (the 100,000-ton hulks) to Steiner space around 3025 and ComStar speculated they would be shipping 'Mechs to and fro. Chosakow's Cossacs, a 3025-era mercenary unit presented in BattleTechnology, use a (civilian) Mule-class DropShip as 'Mech transport.
Leopards, Unions and Overlords are very small compared to civilian transports. However, they can do combat drops, the single most useful application for BattleMechs especially in the 3025 period of small and fast raids. That makes them the attack craft of choice. (Not sure if the Lion or Confederate classes had drop capacity, but they are more or less extinct by 3025.)
The Fury and (extinct) Vampire class troop carriers could also drop-deploy their jump troops.
Military spheroids without drop capacity (Fortress, Excalibur) can at least still land everywhere. They are useful for "hot" landings and securing planetside bridgeheads, as are spheroid carriers of conventional troops.
Military aerodyne DropShips (Triumph, Gazelle, Condor) are pretty darn useless without VSTOL capacity if you ask me, except for small and heavily armed specialized transporters. They only make sense to use where the civilian infrastructure is unreliable and the commander in charge wants to keep his hardware under strict military control.
Edit: I never did the math myself before. Wow. Now many odd or "boring" new DropShip designs from TRO3055 make a lot more sense!
Edited by Frabby (03/21/08 10:15 AM)
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Christopher_Perkins
03/22/08 06:37 AM
67.166.179.161
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The Excalibur (DS & JS ... the REAL version and not the one that messed up the stats in RS AT2 & TR3057/R) uses a 400 ton cargo bay to transport 4 battlemechs... while not being able to drop the mechs from orbit... almost any cargo bay can be loaded with utility mechs, and therefore is tall enough to tie battlemechs to the wall.
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Frabby
06/06/08 04:41 PM
87.164.234.65
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Stumbled across something in the Battlepack: Fourth Succession War. The intro text for Scenario 3 describes how the commanding Davion Marshal watches the JumpShips appear for the attack on Tikonov from the viewport of his own Monolith class ship Black Orchid. It is explicitly described how "more than three hundred DropShips" descend on Tikonov carrying 8 RCTs.
On average, that makes 37.5 DropShips used per RCT for an attack during the 4th SW in a canonical description.
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Christopher_Perkins
06/08/08 07:16 PM
24.125.201.167
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Quote:
On average, that makes 37.5 DropShips used per RCT for an attack during the 4th SW in a canonical description.
I'd Say that makes "More Than" 37.5 DropShips used per RCT for an attack during the 4th SW...
so 38 DropShips per RCT, 304 Dropships per 8 RCTs
1 Regiment of 108 - 124 BattleMechs (+3 Battalion Command Lances, 1 Regimental Command Lance)
takes 9 Union and up to 4 Leopards for the BN and Regimental Command Elements
or 3 Overlord and up to 4 Leopards
or 27 Leopard and up to 4 Leopards
The largest vehicle Carrier DropShip produced in the Federated Suns is the Gazelle, 1 Company + Support... (or 15 vehicle company)
108 - 135 Heavy (Support & Combat) Vehicles
9 Gazelles per Regiment
1 Fury transports 4 platoons of foot infantry...
so 3 Furies per Battalion.
1 Mech Regiment
1 Armour Brigade of 3 Regiments
1 Infantry Brigade of 5 Regiments
...
so 9 Union, 4 Leopards, 27 Gazelles, and 45 Fury / Excalibur
Closer to 75 - 85 Dropships, and that neither adds for Logistics / Cargo Vessles, nor subtracts for Cargo Vessles being utilized as Vehicle Transports (Infantry would be more problematic)
So 8 RCTs would be 600 - 680 Dropships.
It Gets better if you give the Regimental Commanders Access to the Battalion Level Triumph Class Transports, problem is that I only know of Capellan and Kuritan Factories for the same... in circa 3054 Objective Raids book.
This makes the low end
so 3 Overlord, 4 Leopards, 3 Triumph * 3, 3*3 Fury * 2
3 + 4 + 9 + 18 = 34 Drophships Per RCT
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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Christopher_Perkins
06/08/08 07:18 PM
24.125.201.167
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The AeroSpace Fighter Contingent would be the compliment that rides on the BattleMech Transports...
with a Squadron riding in 3 Unions or 1 Overlord
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
|
Frabby
06/10/08 04:48 PM
87.164.198.73
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So what it boils down to is this: How to cram one entire RCT plus overhead into no more than 40 DropShips while taking into account what designs were available to the FedSuns in 3028 in which approximate numbers.
Lacking hard data on DropShip proliferation I made the following assumptions, based on TRO3057:
- Fortress is too rare to be considered --> not available
- Mech carriers (Leopard/Union/Overlord) ratio about 3:6:1 (conveniently averaging at Union capacity)
- Excalibur (12/0/90/12) is in general service, and built by SDT on Tharkad --> available (in sensible numbers)
- Triumph (0/0/45+8L/4) is in service "in large numbers" with all Houses --> available (standard)
- Condor (0/0/20L/12) seems to be a standard craft --> available
- Seeker (0/0/64L/4) is built in both FS and LC --> available
- Intruder (0/2/0/4) - availability unknown
- Gazelle (0/0/15/0) is popular in FS --> available (standard)
- Fury (0/0/8L/4) - availabiliy unknown
A standard RCT is ca. 120 'Mechs, 20 Aerospace Fighters, 405 vehicles (at least 270 heavy) and 135 Infantry platoons in combat troops, plus an additional space/air support wing, support units and supplies.
Suggested transports ('Mech/ASF/Heavy vehicles/Infantry platoons):
36 / 06 / 00 / 00 - 1 Overlord
60 / 10 / 00 / 00 - 5 Unions
12 / 06 / 00 / 00 - 3 Leopards
12 / 00 / 90 / 12 - 1 Excalibur
00 / 00 /180/ 16 - 4 Triumph (+32 light vehicles)
00 / 00 / 00 / 36 - 3 Condor (+60 light vehicles)
00 / 00 / 00 / 04 - 1 Seeker (+64 light vehicles, field hospital)
00 / 00 / 90 / 00 - 4 Gazelle
---------------------
120/22/360/68 total capacity plus 156 light vehicles.
With these 22 ships you already have all the 'Mechs, Fighters and Tanks/Artillery (assuming that 45 out of 405 vehicles are "light") accounted for, plus 111 additional light vehicles (coolant trucks, MASH units, ammo haulers, repair vehicles, recon planes, fighter aircraft, etc.) and 68 out of 135 infantry platoons. Plus some basic cargo space for spare parts and expendables.
Add 1 Dove (MedEvac ship), 2 Avenger combat ships and 2 Leopard-CV carriers for a reasonable regimental space/air support group, 1 Monarch for the brass and you still have a dozen as-of-yet unspecified DropShips available to accomodate the remaining 67 platoons of infantry, support personnel and supplies. Looks entirely realistic to me since civilian haulers can be put to good use here which are vastly more efficient than the military ships. Also, additional Condors with additional light vehicles (support or combat) would be likely, possibly even additional Triumphs. A handful of Intruders and Furys is thinkable but they have insufficient infantry room unless modified to be used on a larger scale.
I'd imagine an additional space/air group built around an Achilles and/or Vengeance would be present to secure the Jump Point (and protect the JumpShips), but not be part of the RCT proper.
As an afterthought, it occurred to me that we are probably going the wrong way here. If infantry was such a problem to move compared to Mech or armour units then I imagine nobody in their right mind would have put so many infantry regiments into an RCT - what's the point besides creating a logistics nightmare.
I think it is safe to assume that available transport capacities determined the composition of RCTs so there is some ultimate infantry carrier out there that we have not seen yet, presumably a modification to an existing design. The Seeker and Condor, and to a lesser extent Excalibur, are likely candidates.
Edit: Just realized the Seeker can only carry light vehicles in any case so had to change the whole calculation.
Edited by Frabby (08/18/15 11:04 AM)
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Christopher_Perkins
06/10/08 10:33 PM
24.125.201.167
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(OR) = Objective Raids, Circa 3054
Quote:
- Fortress is too rare to be considered --> not available
(OR) Produced near Tharkad (LC)
Quote:
- Mech carriers (Leopard/Union/Overlord) ratio about 3:6:1 (conveniently averaging at Union capacity)
Leopard (OR) Produced near Tarus (TC), Duncanshire (MC), Clipperton (FWL), Alarion (LC) and Galax (FS)
Union (OR) Produced near Illushin (TC), Sterope (TC), Ares (CC), Clipperton (FWL), Alarion (LC) and Galax (FS), Avon (DC)
Overlord (OR) Produced near Ares (CC). Galax (FS), Skye (LC), Avon (DC)
Quote:
- Excalibur (12/0/90/12) is in general service, and built by SDT on Tharkad --> available (in sensible numbers)
(OR) Produced near Luthien (DC), Capella (CC), Tharkad (LC)
Quote:
- Triumph (0/0/45+8L/4) is in service "in large numbers" with all Houses --> available (standard)
(OR) Produced near Luthien (DC), Capella (CC)
Quote:
- Condor (0/0/20L/12) seems to be a standard craft --> available
(OR) Produced near Dover (DC), Dalton (FWL)
Quote:
- Seeker (0/0/64L/4) is built in both FS and LC --> available
(OR) Produced Near Layover (FS), Sarna (CC, taken in 4th succession War by FS IIRC), Tharkad (LC)
Quote:
- Intruder (0/2/0/4) - availability unknown
(OR) Produced Near Luthien (DC), Andurien (FWL), Tharkad (LC)
Quote:
- Gazelle (0/0/15/0) is popular in FS --> available (standard)
(OR) Produced Near Atreus (FWL), Galax (FS)
Quote:
- Fury (0/0/8L/4) - availabiliy unknown
(OR) Produced Near Gibson (FWL)
HB House Davion (3067 Era)
Dynamico LTD of Devalan
Aurora, Avenger and Buccaneer
Federated Boeing Interstellar of Galax
Conquistador, Gazelle, Leopard, Leopard CV, Mammoth, Mule, Seeker, Overlord and Union
Kathil Shipworks of Kathil
Mammoth, Mule, Seeker
New Syrtis Shipyards of New Syrtis
Mammoth, Mule, Monarch
Salvatore Inc. of Layover
Seeker
SB House Davion (3025 Era)
Federated Boeing Interstellar of Galax
Gazelle, Leopard, Leopard CV, Unspecified Civillian Cargo Dropships, Overlord, Union, Tech D / 3025 Variant of Cargo King (Not the published version), Tech D / 3025 Variant of Cargo Master (again, not the published version)
Looks like between 3025 and 3064 Federated Boeing Interstellar of Galax Ceased production of the 3025 Tech Variants of the Cargo King and Cargo Master to begin production of the Seeker.
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
|
Christopher_Perkins
06/10/08 10:40 PM
24.125.201.167
|
Quote:
As an afterthought, it occurred to me that we are probably going the wrong way here. If infantry was such a problem to move compared to Mech or armour units then I imagine nobody in their right mind would have put so many infantry regiments into an RCT - what's the point besides creating a logistics nightmare.
Well, Refitted Cargo Ships...
Monarch Cruise Ships, etc...
There is even the possibility that on most deployments the foot sloggers were left in garrison.
At this remove from the writers of the 3025 era game... it is unlikely that even the modern PTB know what was the intention... On the Other Hand the commonly held belief that the infantry was transported with the Mobile forces is probably correct...
Humm
Furys and Gazelles are mainly Pathfinder Ships, the lions share of the infantry Transports would probably be retrofitted Cargo and Passenger Transports like Refitted Mammoths, Mules, Buccaneers, refitted Monarchs (probably a very easy refit... they quite probably downgraded the Steerage Bays to infantry Bays while the Single individual Cabins like Redurn slept in were transformed into Double Berth Officers / Senior NCO Billets, and the Luxury Accompdations were either retained as Senior Officer Quarters or retrofitted to squad bays.
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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