chez
09/21/06 01:56 PM
62.173.81.122
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Imagine four mechs are approaching a 4-way blind corner from different directions.The mechs are a Berserker, Axeman, Hatchetman and a Tsi Tsang. In the ensuing fender-bender they all fall over and drop their hatchets. All the mechs then stand up, pick up a hatchet and start swinging at one another. However they have all picked up the wrong hatchet.
How much damage do they all do to one another?
Does a 100ton mech do less damage with a 3 ton hatchet than it's own 7 ton hatchet etc??
I know the scenario is implausible but you get my drift.
chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
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Toontje
09/21/06 07:38 PM
84.24.178.225
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would suppose so, heavier has teh myomers to add energy to the mass, yet a light hatchet has less momentum for the maximum speed of the arm. A heavier hatchet would be too heavy to gain the same speed, and be designed for a faster speed than teh light mech can manage, thus reduced penetration potental.
All would lose some damage potential, see the std. hatchet as optimised.
Rather to blow up, then.
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Cray
09/21/06 10:06 PM
68.200.109.191
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Quote:
Does a 100ton mech do less damage with a 3 ton hatchet than it's own 7 ton hatchet etc??
I would guess the situation would be similar to battlemechs picking up improvised clubs.
In ye olden days, battlemechs didn't have hatchets, they had clubs - trees, I-beams, severed battlemech arms, etc. Those would be of variable weight and size. And you'd get one good smash out of'em. That sounds applicable here.
So, if a 100-ton mech swung a 3-ton axe, he'd get a normal club attack out of the deal and break the hatchet in the process.
If a Hatchetman tried to swing a 7-ton axe, he'd get a normal club attack and then drop it or it'd get stuck or otherwise ruined.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Venom
09/21/06 10:51 PM
63.241.182.3
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Don't forget that hatchets have a known weight and battlemechs can only lift a certain amount. I would imagine that a hatchetman that tries to pick up a berserker's hatchet would not be able to do so.
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JackGarrity
09/22/06 01:08 AM
71.207.230.120
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HOw about Vibro hatchets? someone once told me there was specs for a Battlemech Scale Vibroaxe, any ideas on it? or would it be akin to a chainsword a la warhammer?
Greetings Mechwarrior.
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Cray
09/22/06 11:04 AM
147.160.136.10
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Quote:
HOw about Vibro hatchets? someone once told me there was specs for a Battlemech Scale Vibroaxe, any ideas on it? or would it be akin to a chainsword a la warhammer?
Vibroblades are covered in the Solaris VII map pack.
They come in various forms (swords, axes, knives, etc. - whatever thrills the player), but the rules just describe them as "small," "medium," or "large." The generate heat when active and - if this old draft is accurate - weigh 3, 5, or 7 tons, using 1, 2, or 4 slots. Damage is 7, 10, or 14 when active, or normal punching damage when inactive.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Fang
09/22/06 12:58 PM
65.82.104.120
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Venom is quite right. Hatchetman trying to wield the 'zerkers axe would be like on SNL, the old skit where the weightlifter pulls his arms off trying to lift the barbell. Well, maybe not exactly, but would be funny to see, till he gets his own axe imbedded into his cockpit by the afore mentioned Bezerker.
One by one, the rabbits are stealing my sanity.....
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chez
09/22/06 01:58 PM
62.173.81.122
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Why?
What is the weight limit to be lifted by a mech?
I would have thought a 45ton mech could pick up 7 tons in one hand.
A 3025 era 40 ton Clint has an 8 ton AC/5 in it's right arm so why can't a 45 ton Hatchetman carry a 7 ton hatchet?
My point I was trying to get to is that think it is so much nonsense that melee weapons are included in the tonnage of mechs. They weren't in 3025 and then were in 3050.
Just an anomaly that I have always found strange.
What about scenario 2:
A Berserker and an Atlas have the same bump and the Atlas picks up the hatchet.
Can the Atlas use the hatchet and do the same damage for more than 1 round?
chez
"In order to stab someone in the back it is first necessary to get right behind them" Sir Humphrey Appleby
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Toontje
09/22/06 02:06 PM
84.24.178.225
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IIRC, and cray not, only trees are single use clubs. Griders from rubbled buildings, limbs and such are multi-use. Disadvantage for a mech not constructed with a hatchet, 2 hands must be used.
Think of the hatchet not only being a club, but also reinforced myomers to add some extra oupf.
Rather to blow up, then.
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Toontje
09/22/06 02:08 PM
84.24.178.225
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Also, if you wonder if any fluff text refers to a hatchet by weight, why it would be inconsistent with my reasoning in last post:
Remember the saying, an idiot can ask more questions than a wise man can answer.
You, sir, are an idiot. 
Rather to blow up, then.
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Fang
09/22/06 02:14 PM
65.82.104.120
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the AC for the clint is a part of its tonnage. if it picks up the hatchet, that is an additional 7 tons OVER its alloted weight limit. A mech can only pick up and carry a certain percentage of its weight in addition to its original weight. I am not sure of the exact percentage. We did work it out one time and it seemed ok for a hatchetman to carry an additional axe of identical wieght to the one it already carries, but anything else would be too heavy.
One by one, the rabbits are stealing my sanity.....
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Cray
09/22/06 04:16 PM
68.200.109.191
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Quote:
Why?
What is the weight limit to be lifted by a mech?
10% of their tonnage, doubled with active TSM. It's been that way since the 1987 "Battletech Manual: Rules of Warfare" rules compendium was released.
Quote:
I would have thought a 45ton mech could pick up 7 tons in one hand.
A 3025 era 40 ton Clint has an 8 ton AC/5 in it's right arm so why can't a 45 ton Hatchetman carry a 7 ton hatchet?
What's happening with the Clint is that the 8 tons of the AC/5 is part of its tonnage. A mech's lifting capacity is how much it can lift beyond its designed tonnage.
Quote:
My point I was trying to get to is that think it is so much nonsense that melee weapons are included in the tonnage of mechs. They weren't in 3025 and then were in 3050.
Of course. I'd guess at some point the writers got tired of answering letters explaining how to equip mechs with permanent hatchets since they were apparently freebies for 0 tons and 0 crits, and even lacked proper rules other than "something like other clubs."
Would you really put up with people giving their mechs permanent 0-ton, 0-weight, free weapons that delivered kicking damage?
So, by the 1990 "Battletech Compendium," weight, tonnage, costs, and other rules were assigned to the Hatchet. The Hatchetman lost 3 heat sinks to make way for its hatchet and other axe-equipped designs always paid tonnage for the weapon.
Quote:
What about scenario 2:
A Berserker and an Atlas have the same bump and the Atlas picks up the hatchet.
Can the Atlas use the hatchet and do the same damage for more than 1 round?
Dunno. I'd still be inclined to treat it like an improvised club, though the Atlas certainly has the lift capacity to carry the excess tonnage of a 7-ton axe.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
09/22/06 04:19 PM
68.200.109.191
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Quote:
IIRC, and cray not, only trees are single use clubs. Griders from rubbled buildings, limbs and such are multi-use.
Correct. Trees are one-use clubs; girders are multi-use. Shows how long its been since I used an improvised club in BT. 
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Greyslayer
09/24/06 06:28 PM
216.14.198.52
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Quote:
10% of their tonnage, doubled with active TSM. It's been that way since the 1987 "Battletech Manual: Rules of Warfare" rules compendium was released.
This comes down to something else I seem to remember that a mech can pick up ANY severed mech limb and use as a club. So while a mech might be limited by carry capacity by one rule another says you can use it with no problems. Now considering the complete and utter rort over omni-mechs carrying elementals/battlearmour without incurring any penalties due to their increased mass I reckon such a ruling would be fair.
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Cray
09/25/06 09:10 AM
147.160.136.10
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Quote:
This comes down to something else I seem to remember that a mech can pick up ANY severed mech limb and use as a club.
Yup. Still applies, too. You can pick up the limb and use it as a two-handed club.
That might be the best and easiest way to address picking up another mech's hatchet - you have to use it like a club rather than a hatchet, and it's treated like a regular club for the mech no matter how big the hatchet is.
Quote:
So while a mech might be limited by carry capacity by one rule another says you can use it with no problems. Now considering the complete and utter rort over omni-mechs carrying elementals/battlearmour without incurring any penalties due to their increased mass I reckon such a ruling would be fair.
Yes, there are some oddities in the rules regarding mechs and speed. If you put a mech in low gravity, you can increase its speed. But if you shoot off many tons of mass (like a Hunchback's right torso), the mech is stuck at the same speed.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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