Countergod
10/31/06 04:12 AM
128.211.247.175
|
Okay to answer your question from before:
The causa belli between the FS and the CC is in a nutshell Tikonov. For the rest of 3067 and the first part of 3068, Hasek has a private war with the CC, sparring on worlds around tikonov and in the chaos march to prevent Sunnyboy from expanding his influence further and curtailing shipments of new warmachines out of the planet. Because the Wolf Dragoons broke the CM's blockade, Hasek moved his blockade to all systems under FS control (and some that were not), picketing any ships jumping in and ensuring they were not going to or from tikonov. Any ships that WERE were boarded and searched, delaying the ships and often removing matieriels, which he used to help rebuild his march military. Yvonne turned a blind eye to this, even when Sunnyboy brought it up in the 3067 Whitting Conference (which the LA was in absentia from) It was the Star League's decision not to do anything about this which prompted his call to disband the Star League. Thanks to the LA's absence, the vote was split in a tie, and the star league stayed in operation.
Thus Sunnyboy decided to take matters into his own hands, and gathered a taskforce to break the blocade, including a dozen regiments and two Feng Huang Warships. Yvonne, definiltey displeased with the outright invasion, sent the majority of the FS fleet (which i will assume is mostly repaired by now between Galax and Kathil) along with several rebuilt (and very experienced, thanks to the civil war, as referenced in FM:U) regiments of their own, sparking a massive series of battles all along that area, which spread into a full fledged war. The Fedocm RCTs once again overwhelmed the Capellan military (I dont care what the creators say, a single battalion of mechs in a warrior house can NOT stand toe to toe with 8 regiments of units, a commander who looses in such odds should be taken out behind a shed and shot). causing a general collapse. With several Key worlds such as Necromo right on the FS border, and a resurgant wave of disconent in the St. Ives and a coallition of Andurien and Oriente friendly units invading the CC on the opposite side without FWL high command permission, the CC collapses into three regions: the largest is a CM occupied region rife with terrorist attacks from both CC military personel and Thugee Cultists (working together only barely much like how the Baathists and Al-Qaeda foreigners work together only barely in Iraq, completely unable to stand up to the military in any capacity, yet not giving up making their lives miserable, along with the people of the worlds). The second is an Andurien-Oriente occupied area on the other end of the former CC. The third is a highly reduced "Macarron's zone" (referenced in FM:CC that the Mac was given several worlds in and around Victoria as their little fiefdom) which still is... mostly... loyal to the CC and incorporating surviving elements of the CCAF, though Sunny is dead, having not escaped Sian before the FS overran the planet.
As a small aside: I got another question about the Wobbie's intentions. I mean, it almsot came out and said outright that they were stealing other nation's warships. the Yggdrassil, the FireCrest, I believe there was something about the LCS Invincible being resurrected by the wobbies - though im not sure about that, Possibly the Arthur Davion-Steiner. What did they expect when they presented the new WoB military to the Star League? "Here is a whole bunch of units which we built in secret, and several warships we stole. You want to kill the clans with them?" That would not sit well with me if *I* were a houseleader.
Aside 2: what IS the story with the LCS Invincible?
Aside 3: does the Arthur Davion-Steiner mystery get explained as something to do with Wobbies, or does it stay lost?
Aside 4: If people only travel inhabited planets (as you said) then 1) how did the LAAF and the DCMS loose their warships? I mean it would be pretty obvious when it jumps at one point and does not show up in another. FM:U said they were taking uninhabitied systems as jumproutes. 2) I seem to recall several times in the btech history during the sucssion wars when they used uninhabited planets as jump routes. Countering Alessandro's concentrated weakness was one. the LCAF strike on Luthien is another.
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck 
Maj. NevLord Madman |
Toontje
10/31/06 06:14 AM
131.155.212.169
|
I don't see it happen.. but I'm biased (CC player  )
Rather to blow up, then.
|
Countergod
10/31/06 03:55 PM
128.211.247.175
|
heh this was an alt universe i was toying with, cray said he'd take a look at it... hence the title "for cray" 
Ah one question i forgot to ask cray: what is the status of the warship fleet of the AFFS? In TRO:3067 it says 2 Avalons survived, but in FM:U it lists 3 (the third i think being the one captured by the free Skye rebels... which honestly i dont see them returning >.>)
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck
Maj. NevLord Madman |
Cray
11/01/06 08:53 AM
147.160.136.10
|
The scenario seems feasible, though you'll need to start paying attention to the rest of the setting. The FS and CC won't fight alone without drawing comment from other powers. The LA would be inclined to diplomatically deplore the FS aggression, as it did in 3035 and 3039. The FWL might frown on the FS, but it'd probably make a landgrab against the CC. The DC may either be tied up with the Clans or get into border scraps with the FS.
Quote:
As a small aside: I got another question about the Wobbie's intentions. I mean, it almsot came out and said outright that they were stealing other nation's warships. the Yggdrassil, the FireCrest, I believe there was something about the LCS Invincible being resurrected by the wobbies - though im not sure about that, Possibly the Arthur Davion-Steiner.
WoB's primary thefts were of FWLM ships, and they only snagged those when the Jihad began. WoB wouldn't have stolen FWL ships if the Jihad hadn't occurred. As for the other stolen ships, if they were stolen by WoB, I doubt they'd be waved in public.
Quote:
What did they expect when they presented the new WoB military to the Star League?
The Star League would say, "Oh, your 'secret' army. (snicker) We didn't see that coming. Nope, our intel was completely clueless about your Periphery training camps, hidden divisions, and military expansion."
The Houses had a good feel for WoB's correct military strength, as mentioned in Dawn of the Jihad.
Quote:
Aside 2: what IS the story with the LCS Invincible?
Download the old House Steiner sourcebook from CBT.com. You'll get the story from the point where it was a museum piece, was resurrected to break a Combine siege of Hesperus II, and then was lost mid-jump when it was returning to Tharkad.
Per Dawn of the Jihad, the WoBbies brought it to Tharkad in 3067 (much as other leaders arrived on warships). When the Star League collapsed, they used the Invincible to shoot up Tharkad City.
Speculation: the misjump didn't destroy the Invincible, it just stranded the Invincible somewhere with a busted KF drive. The crew died when supplies ran out. WoB or Comstar found it in the intervening centuries.
Quote:
Aside 3: does the Arthur Davion-Steiner mystery get explained as something to do with Wobbies, or does it stay lost?
It hasn't been explained to my recollection.
Quote:
Aside 4: If people only travel inhabited planets (as you said) then 1) how did the LAAF and the DCMS loose their warships? I mean it would be pretty obvious when it jumps at one point and does not show up in another.
That was exactly the case with the LCS Invincible. Per the House Steiner SB, the Invincible jumped out of the Hesperus system and didn't arrive at its intended destination. The disappearance was well known. The Lyran conclusion published in the House Steiner SB was "misjump."
One presumes the Lyrans went looking for the Invincible (the only surviving major warship in the Inner Sphere at the time) before they concluded "misjump."
Quote:
FM:U said they were taking uninhabitied systems as jumproutes.
That sometimes happens. Sometimes it's unavoidable (as in the Periphery, where habitable systems may not be close enough together to reach in 1 jump). Sometimes the military will take the gamble. It's quite rare, though.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Countergod
11/03/06 04:00 AM
128.211.247.175
|
not much time for a reply right now so ill keep it to two things:
1) you had asked me about the causus belli of the CC-FS war, and it was probalby my fault for not elaborating on the rest of the political sphere. My guess is that from mid 3067 to approx jan 3069 when the FS does the full invasion, the DC is going to be very quietly licking its wounds, trying to get its military back in shape. Its not gonna do anything to start another conflict, and only fight when conflicts come to its borders. I predict a fairly quiet time since the Ghost Bears are likely honorbound not to make another major assault, the FS is still rebuilding itself, and the LA and DC share such a small border (ontop of what i mention below about the LA)
Within the LA, things are very active politically. Robert Steiner-Kelswa (or is it Kelswa Steiner?) pushes his call for the autonomous state within the LA, like the WiE has. In a very clever (in my mind at least) political trick, Peter disbands the 14th and 32nd Lyran Guards (who pretty much are persona non grata in the LAAF anyways) covertly in the middle of a decomissioning proccess of a dozen or so very low strength regiments, temporarily merging them into other regiments. (I can get you the full list on that if you want) He's also redone the military shipments, using Tharkad as the central hub for military hardware produced (literally using warships to escort them from Herespus and Furillo to ensure no "piracy" happens). His plan is to rebuild the Jade Falcon Border regiments as fast as he can, providing a wall to prevent another incursion, while making his next target perfectly clear: the Free Skye Movement. The two disbanded lyran guard regiments are "merged" into the skye brigade showing his "support" for the Skye movement, and when Robert continues his call, he gives him exactly what he wants. Peter declares Skye and several other plants of high Free Skye activity as a free Skye nation within the Lyran border - and proceeds to cut them off completely of any military or civilian rebuilding assistance. Meanwhile, he is putting the lyran government into massive debt (ultra high) rebuilding the rest of the nation and investing in an expansion of his Military Indistrial complex (already the largest in the IS) and heavy tax subsitides of the civilian sectors. By mid 3069 his work has paid off, the lyran economy is churning hard again (with the huge demand for civilian goods in the LA), along with a 33% expansion of the Lyran mech production capacity. By mid 3070 every single active regiment is rebuilt, and the Lyran Government has stopped its expansion of debt (the amount that its loosing every quarter stops growing, or teh debt is growing at a constant rate) and the Lyran economy is booming, flooding the LA, FS, DC, and even partly the FWL with low cost civilian consumer products. Peter at this point is slowly easing off the tax subsidies and increasing his government's income, while slowing the expansion of his economy. The political position within the LA prevents Peter from doing anything politically in the IS, having a great need to clean his own house before he starts looking outward (the Free skye movement is energized at their sudden freedom, but soon realizes that Skye alone cannot support them, especially militarily, since Herespus is very locked down by lyran warships and regiments)
in the FWL, dissent about Thomas marik is growing rapidly, inflamed by 3070 by the Lyran economy's boom. The FWL economy, used to charging high prices for the civilian goods which until the end of the FEdcom civil war it was the primary provider of, suddenly find themselves with a heavy competition with the Lyrans, and cannot adapt to the Lyrans subsidized prices. The FWL economy crashes and unemployment skyrockets at this, causing even more discontent with Thomas.
Meanwhile... the CC is getting the snot beaten out of it 
The Clans are very busy themselves. At home, trials are at an all time high, while in the IS, the Star Adders and Snow Ravens are claiming several bases in the deep periphery, and poking at the DC side of things (thats where the Snow Ravens are, and the Star Adders are looking at a conquest of the Outworlds Alliance). The Falcons and Wolves are having a few more border spats, nothing major, just a continuation of blooding their warriors, while LA and JF border raids are growing more common, especially after 3069 when the regiments are returned to full strength. The Ghost Bears have "returned to hibernation" to lick their wounds from the recent wars.
This is the environment that is present going into the 3070 whitting conference (again on Tharkad). After this, everything explodes 
I got another question for you. in TRO:3067, it states that there are only two Avalon cruisers surviving, with a third believed to have survived but wherabouts unknown. In FM:U it lists 3, incluidng the one captured by Free Skye. What is correct? and is there a fourth one (presumably the Arthur Steiner Davion) whos whereabouts are unknown? Also, Why would the free skye movement give up probably the only tool it has left to assert its dominance (its skye regiments are badly mauled, the Civil war is over, and Peter is very focused on them). If i were skye, i would be hesitant to return the two ships, maybe making some problems between the LA and the FS by keeping them.
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck
Maj. NevLord Madman |
Cray
11/03/06 08:50 AM
147.160.136.10
|
Quote:
Meanwhile, he is putting the lyran government into massive debt (ultra high) rebuilding the rest of the nation and investing in an expansion of his Military Indistrial complex (already the largest in the IS) and heavy tax subsitides of the civilian sectors.
The military-industrial complex is going to be a drop in the bucket. Tharkad alone can fund it, to say nothing of the other 300 Lyran planets. There's no need for deficit spending because of the military.
As discussed recently, House militaries are very inexpensive things.
Quote:
the Lyran economy is booming, flooding the LA, FS, DC, and even partly the FWL with low cost civilian consumer products.
Where did the miraculous number of jumpships come from to support that interstellar export?
The Inner Sphere doesn't have enough jumpships to support interstellar export of large quantities of cheap goods. Most jumpships are tied up shipping necessities, some are used for the military, and the small remainder ship goods expensive enough to rate interstellar transport.
Quote:
I got another question for you. in TRO:3067, it states that there are only two Avalon cruisers surviving, with a third believed to have survived but wherabouts unknown. In FM:U it lists 3, incluidng the one captured by Free Skye. What is correct?
FM:U.
Quote:
and is there a fourth one (presumably the Arthur Steiner Davion) whos whereabouts are unknown?
No, though you're always free to build more. You've got years of peace in this timeline to do just that.
Quote:
Also, Why would the free skye movement give up probably the only tool it has left to assert its dominance (its skye regiments are badly mauled, the Civil war is over, and Peter is very focused on them). If i were skye, i would be hesitant to return the two ships, maybe making some problems between the LA and the FS by keeping them.
And support those ships with what shipyard, from parts from what manufacturer?
Iran had 77 F14s at the start of the Revolution. When the US technicians left at the dawn of the Revolution, the F14s were rendered incapable of firing Phoenix missiles. Within the next few years, the US's embargo on parts meant the F14s were grounded for lack of parts. By 1987, Iran had 10 flying F14s, kept aloft by cannabilizing other F14s.
Now, if some punk separatist movement gets ahold of high-maintenance machines like foreign warships, I'd expect those nations to shut down the flow of necessary spares to the separatists, resulting in the warships grinding to a halt in short order. The only thing the warships are good for is trading them for whatever they can get.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Countergod
11/03/06 12:24 PM
128.210.105.176
|
Quote:
The military-industrial complex is going to be a drop in the bucket. Tharkad alone can fund it, to say nothing of the other 300 Lyran planets. There's no need for deficit spending because of the military.
As discussed recently, House militaries are very inexpensive things.
I have not reworked those assumptions off of our recent discussion yet, and i also meant building the infrastructure to expand it. Mech-plants ARE expensive, especially when you start up a new one (which i am tenatively putting on Thorin). The major debt, however, comes from giving huge tax subsidies to companies to get them back on their feet, rebuilding infrastructure and housing damaged/destroyed due to the fighting, and giving them the breath of wind needed to start their engines again.
On the topic of Thorin, FM:LA says that the Thorin flight acadamy is scheduled to close. FM:LA says that the Civil war halted those plans and is still in session. HB:HS says it closed on schedule. A bit of a contradiction there :/ I am running on the assumption that with a celebrated hero of the Alliance residing on Thorin (one Archer Christifoni) running its local milita unit, that it would be a good opportunity not only to keep the school open, but expand the school drastically for all schools of warfare and even civilian studies too (thorin was the site of a major SL university IIRC). Christifoni would make a good provost, and the military students could train directly with the Thorin FTM, giving the LA a very nice break on the Sanglamore monopoly on training in the Skye region (along with its indoctrination program).
Quote:
Where did the miraculous number of jumpships come from to support that interstellar export?
The Inner Sphere doesn't have enough jumpships to support interstellar export of large quantities of cheap goods. Most jumpships are tied up shipping necessities, some are used for the military, and the small remainder ship goods expensive enough to rate interstellar transport.
I always had the impression there are enough Jumpships, when they arent being subsumed for military operations. in HB:HS it said that the economy crashed as all the transports were taken up for military needs, and that once the succession wars were over the Steiners were able to send mercy missions throughout the LA with basic needs. Also, many planets dont have the food production/basic neccesities to support human life on them, and need to import quite a few. Thirdly, the Lyran Alliance had "approrpiated" a large number of jumpships from the FS in 3057. It caused the FS to be unable to move their units to counter the FWL-CC invasion, but even before and after that, when the jumpships were already there, i never got the impression that the FS was having an economic crisis from the lack of Jumpships. The FS even managed to mount operation Bulldog with this lack of jumpships and still i can find no reference that the FS economy ground to a halt. I guess what im saying is that its my impression that under peacetime conditions there ARE enough private jumpships to do a lot of interstellar trading (otherwise what are companies like Christifoni Express) shipping?)
Quote:
No, though you're always free to build more. You've got years of peace in this timeline to do just that.
The damage taken by the FS Fleet (and the fact that many ships were put into service before completion) I think will perclude construction of any Avalon class ships before the CC war heats up, though maybe one or two Foxes might be reasonable. In the LA, I have one new Fox coming out, along with a new Alliance class cruiser/carrier (to fill the gap between the Mjolnir and the Fox), the first of which enters service in mid 3070. In the DC, its been stated very clearly in 3067 and FM:U that their budget was broken by their current warship fleet construction, so i decided no more ships built, though i "created the infrastructure" to support the commisioning of the three clan warships put into mothballs by 3070 (i was thinking 3069 or 3068, but i decided to be fair, once again, i have not worked out our discussion on economies into this)
Quote:
Now, if some punk separatist movement gets ahold of high-maintenance machines like foreign warships, I'd expect those nations to shut down the flow of necessary spares to the separatists, resulting in the warships grinding to a halt in short order. The only thing the warships are good for is trading them for whatever they can get.
Skye is one of the most economically and manufacturingly advanced planets in the LA. They have a huge dropship manufacturing plant, and the ships should be well known enough from Katherine and Victor's rule of the F-C that they know HOW to make the parts. Its fine though, i left them returned to the FS anyways 
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck
Maj. NevLord Madman |
Cray
11/05/06 09:49 AM
70.118.43.50
|
Quote:
Quote:
Where did the miraculous number of jumpships come from to support that interstellar export?
The Inner Sphere doesn't have enough jumpships to support interstellar export of large quantities of cheap goods. Most jumpships are tied up shipping necessities, some are used for the military, and the small remainder ship goods expensive enough to rate interstellar transport.
I always had the impression there are enough Jumpships, when they arent being subsumed for military operations.
And in a setting with Trillions of consumers, the military consists of tens of thousands of mechwarriors and millions of other personnel, most of whom will never travel between stars.
That means that when the tiny military can substantially impact merchant shipping, there isn't all that much in the way of merchant shipping to begin with. Low cost consumer goods aren't going to be shipped in quantities to affect other economies.
What the Lyrans might manage is to dump high-cost goods on other Houses, the critical goods: fusion engines, jumpships, dropships, water filters, etc.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
Countergod
11/06/06 02:56 AM
128.211.247.148
|
that sounds good 
i do remember one reference though of civilian luxery goods being so high priced in the LA and FS that the FWL was making a killing off it... also something about boosting the FWL's GDP above the lyrans, not sure if those two were related though
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck
Maj. NevLord Madman |
|
|
Extra information
|
1 registered and 108 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Nic Jansma, Cray, Frabby, BobTheZombie
Print Topic
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is enabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Topic views: 7503
|
|
|
|
|
|
|