C3 Systems

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Karagin
11/29/06 12:06 AM
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Okay I was wondering how many of you actually use C3 systems in your games?

If you do have they been to powerful or not? What kinds of make of the lance using the C3 have for weapons and speed?

Anything else you might want to toss in about the pros and cons of the C3 systems.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Toontje
11/29/06 06:57 AM
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I think they suck for my opponents.. not using them myself.

Now I play CC, and with half the units having ECM without trying, all that fancy-schmansy stuff just does not work as advertised.

Especially when expecting c3 (DC/C* player), get a pair of nightshades to stay out of los and inside ECM range of the C3M unit(s). (Did that before stealth was invented)
Rather to blow up, then.
Greyslayer
11/29/06 08:32 AM
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Quote:

Especially when expecting c3 (DC/C* player), get a pair of nightshades to stay out of los and inside ECM range of the C3M unit(s). (Did that before stealth was invented)




That is why the btech gods invented ECCM.
Karagin
11/29/06 01:36 PM
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True, but that ties up more weight lost to a system to counter the ECM of your oppeant, thus your C3 mechs don't pack as much firepower or ammo.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Toontje
11/29/06 02:14 PM
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is eccm regular tech now? not quite finished reading TW yet..
Rather to blow up, then.


Edited by Toontje (11/29/06 02:15 PM)
sdog
11/29/06 04:59 PM
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electronic counter capellan measures? if used all forces of the Capellan Confederation are removed from the game.

wait, that's maybe more like one of New Prakroahs rule suggestions ;-)

I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...

- Skaven, ArmA modding community
Karagin
11/29/06 07:53 PM
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In BT all ECCM is, is having a second ECM unit on a mech or vehicle and having it set to be ECCM, it's like saying which ammo you have for the LB-X or what the firing rate of the RAC is.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Greyslayer
11/30/06 08:52 AM
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In the MaxTech rules it was any ECM unit could also be used as an ECCM unit, it was a choice of one or the other (it could not serve both functions at once). Not seen any new rules for ECCM since then but considering how easy the rules were in regards to many others kicking about it did make it into play associated to level 2 play in some groups (it also made ECM handy in more than just one situation).
Karagin
11/30/06 07:04 PM
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Very true, all it required was the mounting two ECMs in a single mech, I have seen that a lot with my group when they want to play nice and dirty and really cause the other side to lose their cool toys.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
NewPharoah
12/04/06 11:58 AM
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I've found C3 to work well with semiguided LRMs. I let C3 be used with the various targeting & tracking systems found in Maximum Tech and with anti-missile systems to shoot down missiles.
Any rules I type should be considered unofficial unless stated otherwise by Precentor Martial Randall Bills and/or published Classic BattleTech products.


Edited by NewPharoah (12/04/06 12:09 PM)
Toontje
12/04/06 12:14 PM
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C3 is a sort of targeting and tracking system, I wouldn't combine the two.

Besides, will the bonus/penalty be from the actual range or the C3-influenced range? (btw, what does ams have to do with his?)
Rather to blow up, then.
NewPharoah
12/04/06 12:49 PM
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Scientifically speaking, in theory it's possible to combine C3 and a T&T system from Maximum Tech. Say for example the target is at medium range of your unit's weapon (your unit is equipped with a short range targeting system) and a unit equipped with C3 is between your unit and the target (the in between unit has a distance to the target equal to your weapon's short range) so you should in theory be at short range and therefore be able to attack while gaining the bonus of the short range targeting system.

As for ams the C3 would transfer firing coordinates from one ams to another to enable more missiles to be destroyed unless they're capital missiles.
Any rules I type should be considered unofficial unless stated otherwise by Precentor Martial Randall Bills and/or published Classic BattleTech products.
Toontje
12/04/06 02:16 PM
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it's not science, it's a game. Adding targeting systems to another targeting system calls for a lot of confusion, rules lawyering, and munch.

Now ams on a network, hehe, hehe.. While waiting for coordinates, ups.. lag occurs..

actually, you can make that sort of rule: on a 9+, ams is not activated; otherwise, -6 instead of -4 on the missile table.

But it would detract from the streamline of the game and bog things down..
Rather to blow up, then.
Karagin
12/04/06 07:14 PM
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Your idea to link the AMS together is very similar to what David Drake has in his Hammer's Slammers books when the tribarrels are linked to the Air Defense computer to shot down incomming artillery rounds.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
NewPharoah
12/05/06 12:18 PM
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Quote:

it's not science, it's a game. Adding targeting systems to another targeting system calls for a lot of confusion, rules lawyering, and munch.




BV is called BV for a reason.

Lag yes though the coordinates would be broadcasted at the speed of light. And I do agree that ams/laser ams should be capable of blowing up artillery shots.
Any rules I type should be considered unofficial unless stated otherwise by Precentor Martial Randall Bills and/or published Classic BattleTech products.
Karagin
12/05/06 12:46 PM
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If you haven't noticed the BV system has major flaws, it under rate certain systems and over rates others, while ignoring what certain systems actually do.

So going solely off of BV isn't always going to give you the best picture of a force or the ability of the equiment.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Toontje
12/05/06 01:25 PM
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internet is at the speed of light, too.. yet there is this ever-occuring lag.

Also, can be simply avoided b adding random course deviations during flight.. iirc that's what sea-skimming ASM's do.
Rather to blow up, then.
NewPharoah
12/06/06 05:50 PM
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Yes the BV system has flaws; it can be made better.
Any rules I type should be considered unofficial unless stated otherwise by Precentor Martial Randall Bills and/or published Classic BattleTech products.
Nightward
12/26/06 12:50 AM
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C3 by itself is not too bad. C3 as it was in the BMR, once the Davions got their hands on it, became insane.

"Why, yes. I do believe that I will fire my R-A/C-5 and pulse laser batteries via this C3 link..."

It' not as bad thanks to the TW rules which prevent aimed shots with Burst weapons, but the technology should really have remained firmly in the hands of the Draconis Combine. As it stands at the moment, nobody can compete with the Federated Suns on a tech base, with the Lyran Commonwealth coming in at a very narrow second.

C3i, on the other hand, is a very nice piece of technology. Since the 'Mechs that mount the equipment aren't usually all that spectacular, it isn't a game-breaker either, the way a Davion C3 company can be.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Karagin
12/26/06 01:09 AM
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Your point about certain tech staying solely the property of one house is some thing that has caused numerous debates among my group of friends and players. The lists of pros and cons for both sides of this are out there.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Nightward
12/28/06 03:04 AM
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The real problem comes when you see the new 'Mechs. The stuff that featured exclusive gear way back when wasn't that bad, but now things get real stupid, real fast- like Targeting Computrs, R-A/Cs, Pulse Lasers, and C3.

Meanwhile, in the intervening years, the Combine has discovered what?

ER technology. Wowee.

Even with the assistance of ComStar, the salvage from the Battle of Luthien, Operations Serpent and Bulldog, the Combine's stable sociopolitical environment (as compared to the rest of the Inner Sphere), and they've learned nothing really imprressive. No Targeting Computers for them, even though they have the Nova Cats in their back pocket.

No Stealth armour (again, they have CS assistance, and the Star has Null-Sig).

No Light Engines.

No LGRs.

And so on and so forth.

The Davions get all the toys. Why? I duno. Ask Randall Bills. Or whoever's in charge of writing the novels.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Karagin
12/28/06 06:23 AM
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That is because the Davions are the "good guys".

The Combine should have TCs, and your point is a good one.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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