bunkedunder
Newbie
Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 20
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The Don Travesty
#147340 - 06/12/07 09:11 PM (69.218.227.1)
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29d 2 [The DON] The Dynasty of Neveron [FWLM-DW] Free Worlds League''s Dark Warriors
An uninstigated FWAR by people claiming to be the products of neveron's glorious past. You'd think there would be some type of integrity, but that's not the case.
5/9/3267 1:40:00 PM -- Alliance Command of The DON 344 attacks on Lakotan Stronghold of FWLM-DW
5/9/3267 1:00:00 PM -- KungsArme Command of The DON 303 attacks on Lakotan Stronghold of FWLM-DW
Man, nothing like having an empire that has already twice as much bv attacking an empire, but instead bringing in a friend! Congratulations The Don for showing everyone how you are truly upstanding citizens.
I find it extremely embarassing that a faction self-titled The Dynasty of Neveron resorts to flat out gangbanging. I mean seriously, as an "hoc" faction you can at least hide your gangbanging behind lies and false accusations that Lakota did something wrong.
I mean you didn't even wait for Lakota to bring someone in. I'm sure you guys are itching at the chance to bring Basuku in to.
For the record, I have no idea who FWLM-DW is and don't BP for them.
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: bunkedunder]
#147343 - 06/12/07 11:24 PM (69.178.97.208)
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Go away Hoppy.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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KingDiamond
Lieutenant
Reged: 04/12/03
Posts: 689
Loc: Germany
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Katrar]
#147345 - 06/13/07 02:42 AM (128.176.216.116)
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Hoppy or not - he's got a point. It IS damn embarrassing.
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: KingDiamond]
#147351 - 06/13/07 06:50 AM (70.126.44.124)
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i disagree but im not taking sides. if you dont gang bang you get gang banged what the diff? if you try to play with fairness you get bent if you try to play with honor you get bent whats the diff this is the new neveron this is what the admins want and this is what the players now do. it is up to players to rise above these things is it not?
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: cbtgod]
#147354 - 06/13/07 08:16 AM (69.178.97.208)
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Exactly. This is normal, bunkedunder is just spouting his anti-hoc agenda. Its war on Neveron, as played by virtually everyone. Except when hoc plays, its bad. Whatever.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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HateNDiscontent
Sergeant
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 164
Loc: Border of Heaven and Hell
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Katrar]
#147359 - 06/13/07 09:06 AM (70.178.247.43)
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Actually most faction wars now adays have little to do with being instigated by the defenders and more to do with the fact that if Faction B doesn't Fwar someone, Faction A (which is twice its size) will Fwar Faction B when that 15 day window is over for Faction B, so in order to not get hit by another Neveron faults (the faction ladder and fwars), Faction B must faction war someone and usually Faction C is hit only because they are related to someone that is an enemy of Faction B is some way.
Faction wars are not for those that seek honour on the battle field. When will players understand that.
If you want a game with honour, play yourself in a game of chess or checkers. Neveron is not about being fair and just, it is about War and last I checked...War is complete Hell!
What The Don's did was nothing new to Neveron and has been practiced by all sides of every political party for years. This thread is just another propaganda peace brought to you by those that will find any excuse to attack HoC or any of their friends.
I seriously doubt the creater of this thread would be starting his/her own thread about OTK/HH/NC etc, doing simular tactics.
cbtgod is right on about the players rising above and attempting to play with civility. That is what this game desperately needed a while back.
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If being evil to Evil is evil...I guess I am Evil.
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bunkedunder
Newbie
Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 20
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Katrar]
#147360 - 06/13/07 09:07 AM (69.218.227.1)
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so you're taking a stance of pre-emptive gang-banging? That's a joke. BTW I think this is the first time that you haven't made a long drawn out explanation defending your allies actions in the forums. Guess that's why you have to resort to just telling someone to go away.
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: bunkedunder]
#147362 - 06/13/07 09:12 AM (69.178.97.208)
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No, bunkedunder, he's taking a stance that the code requires people to hit who they can, when they can, because A) there are penalties for sitting idle and B) targets are so quick to go into fake fwars to prevent being hit in the first place. Target factions are not in abundant availability. They are either in fake fwars or in fwar protection the majority of the time.
And I tell you to go away because you aren't making any relavant or serious points. If they were relevant or serious they would be about changing the game. Not changing the behavior of one group, that happens to be identical to every other group.
Oh and by the way, the crying about gang-banging. Old. About 5 years old. Find something new and interesting (and useful) to cry about please.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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HateNDiscontent
Sergeant
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 164
Loc: Border of Heaven and Hell
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Katrar]
#147364 - 06/13/07 09:22 AM (70.178.247.43)
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When Faction B is down to its final few days before Fwar protection is over it has some analysis to do.
1. Where on the ladder do we sit
a) good we sit in a rung where no one should attack us for awhile
b) Oh crap, 3 of our enemies are within our position and they are all bigger than us
c) Oh holy crap! 2 of those enemies are almost twice our size and their faction leader is a 12 and
we have an 11.
2. For b and c...Faction B then has to look at how do they avoid slaughter
a) send out dc's for all empires
b) Faction war someone lower than us within legal limits.
3. Most Factions chose (B)
I can't blame them.
Now the issue of attacking with multiple empires on one target is something that has been debated for the last 300 centuries.
Germany didn't attack Europe along, they recruited Russia first in WWII. England then recruited America and Russia later to counter with a massive gangbang.
Is it right to gangbang...nah... but is it wrong...nope. Just not a moral thing, but then again, if you are going to be the agressor...being moral was thrown out the window when you pressed that dow button...and on the defender side...being moral was thrown out the window as soon as you decided that saving the lives of your citizenry and your military was more important than how the world of Neveron looks at you.
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If being evil to Evil is evil...I guess I am Evil.
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: HateNDiscontent]
#147366 - 06/13/07 09:54 AM (88.159.71.253)
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The embarassing part would be if AMI were to lose.. Lokatan is on the front page atm. Now that does not say everything, but it does say something.
(edit)And the not realising its # of pilots that counts more than another empire.(/edit)
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Rather to blow up, then.
Edited by Toontje (06/13/07 09:54 AM)
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Toontje]
#147367 - 06/13/07 09:58 AM (69.178.97.208)
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Yeah. I remember a post sometime ago in which Mantis suggested the number of empires, BV, etc don't matter. That in reality its the number of competent pilots. And that if you had 10 1 million BV empires each attacking with 1 pilot, the damage inflicted would be on average the same as if those attacks came from within 1 empire with 10 pilots.
Now, there is a difference in staying power, and the ability to soak losses, but from an actual warfighting perspective there is little difference.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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Malachi
Sergeant Major
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 369
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Katrar]
#147374 - 06/13/07 10:45 AM (86.2.121.92)
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Ok my experience with the front page and gangbanging: Defender usually makes front page due to the throw-away nature of war on nev as it will be killing the vehicles of 2 attackers while each attacker will kill less bv.
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Malachi]
#147376 - 06/13/07 11:06 AM (69.178.97.208)
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Like attacker 1 and 2 both kill 100k bv, defender kills 125k bv (combined). Defender is still down 75k compared to attackers, but makes the front page and thus looks like he is winning (which is in error). This example for the imaginatively deficient. 
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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bunkedunder
Newbie
Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 20
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Katrar]
#147379 - 06/13/07 11:27 AM (69.213.185.8)
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the issue is that theres about 6mil combined bv:pop to surrender from then 4mil from AC alone. This means that he has to kill a larger proportionate amount of bv/pop then AC/Kung needs to take from Lakota. If it was dead even with bv/pop loss, AMI wins hands down, from sheerly involving another empire
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Starborn
Private
Reged: 04/24/06
Posts: 28
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: bunkedunder]
#147392 - 06/13/07 01:39 PM (24.184.202.3)
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Dont worry bunkedunder macca DoWd lakotan hell have his cities surrounded and unhittable soon thus freeing up offensive firepower. Im not complaining im just saying its the new way of war on nev. So in this war unless they can Cf him fast and hard id say lakotan will win.
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smithandwesson
Private
Reged: 03/20/06
Posts: 31
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Starborn]
#147400 - 06/13/07 09:00 PM (70.105.121.203)
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Bunkedunder AMI used to have a written RoE which dictated 1 on 1 combat. Almost none of the factions they would fight against would honor those RoE, usally the other side would start gang banging at the first chance they got and gain a advantage over AMI. Its pretty much pointless in todays NEV to hope that factions will keep things 1 on 1. Of course every faction thinks there justified in gang banging, when they do it its a valid war tactic, when their enemies do it its dirty rotten gang banging.
In short there is no such thing as a fair or honorable FWAR these days each side uses what ever advantage they can. Hell even regular wars often end up with onside or the other gangbanging. There is so much bad blood between factions and so many players have a win at any cost attitude, its sad.
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SCUM
Sergeant
Reged: 12/05/02
Posts: 159
Loc: I'm somewhere, where I don't k...
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: smithandwesson]
#147446 - 06/15/07 12:39 AM (4.244.60.95)
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I think that I will write down and adopt my own code of honorable warfare, this rampant destruction is fruitless.
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Jer 33:3
9th Kyu AOSRKKF
Promo Code:scumsentme
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SCUM
Sergeant
Reged: 12/05/02
Posts: 159
Loc: I'm somewhere, where I don't k...
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: SCUM]
#147447 - 06/15/07 01:08 AM (4.244.60.95)
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Potential Creed for Combat.
1. I will not attack an opponent who is already embroiled in combat, unless opponent is a hunter/killer empire who is preying upon weaker targets or is one of many (more than one) empires hitting a single target.
2. If my opponent is obviously beaten and has capitulated (openly and verbally (chat) surrenders), I will show mercy by taking no more pop than seems just to both parties for spoils/reparations. If opponent cannot be contacted, spoils/reparations will be determined based not on selfishness.
3. When I show mercy to my opponent by ceasing to attack, I will do so even if I am the attacker and the game forces me to lose piloting/gunnery skills.
4. I will not openly insult my opponents pilots unless in joke or jest.
I am open to suggestions should anyone have a good idea.
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Jer 33:3
9th Kyu AOSRKKF
Promo Code:scumsentme
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bunkedunder
Newbie
Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 20
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: SCUM]
#147749 - 07/02/07 02:27 PM (69.218.215.154)
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*Bump*
Would like to add to this thread in light of the recent events of once again, an uninstigated FWAR with gang-banging abounding!
P.S. Kreger you can now be considered an complete utter douchebag.
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Dee
Sergeant Major
Reged: 02/15/06
Posts: 248
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: bunkedunder]
#147750 - 07/02/07 02:51 PM (24.224.253.98)
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OTK-NC (OTK and NC in general) are enemies of HoC and allies. AMI happens to be an HoC ally now days. Being an enemy is instigation enough. Plus if I'm not mistaken OTK happened to hit AMI recently with an "uninstigated" fwar.
Now, if you want to start calling people douchebags for uninstigated fwars and gangbanging I suggest you pay more attention to the smaller, independant factions near the bottom of the list that keep getting killed by much better built, funded and established empires who start a faction to be able to run away from their enemies when things get rough.
~Dee
ps- don't even think I'm standing up for AMI. My opinion is well known around the private clubs by now I'm sure. But, honestly people, enemies hit enemies. Tit for tat, you gang bang us we gang bang you, you call us names we call you names. It's the same old stuff. This situation doesn't warrant any more of this crap then any of the ones that nobody ever jumped on.
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...my bed was on fire once. I blame the gnomes.
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bunkedunder
Newbie
Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 20
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Dee]
#147751 - 07/02/07 02:57 PM (69.218.215.154)
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they are calling themselves honorable for christs sakes. that is what i'm calling them out on.
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Dee
Sergeant Major
Reged: 02/15/06
Posts: 248
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: bunkedunder]
#147752 - 07/02/07 03:14 PM (24.224.253.98)
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there's a lot of people who call themselves a lot of things, but you're not calling them out.
What is it about AMI that you don't like? I know why I don't like them, but what is your beef with them?
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...my bed was on fire once. I blame the gnomes.
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bunkedunder
Newbie
Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 20
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Dee]
#147754 - 07/02/07 03:40 PM (69.218.215.154)
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1. They call themselves the Dynasty of Neveron. This is exactly what nimon did when he bought all those empires, he called himself Nevlord Nimon. This along with his economic policies prompted a nev-wide assault on him. Why should this be different? *Note* I fought against Nimon for an extremely long time.
2. Their self-proclaimed honor code. Why even bother spouting off an honor code if you aren't even going to follow it. For PR? Obviously they aren't concerned with PR if they are walking around with their cocks hanging out.
3. Kreger and Koolaid. After leaving the unaligned movement for HoC, they called a ton of people out saying they betrayed them, with no evidence whatsoever. They used this as a justification to join HoC, when in fact it was because they couldn't survive on their own with their sparse allies.
AMI was a creation of Logres, to provide a sanctuary for military personel overseas. However, since the departure of Logres, AMI has become increasingly militant, and I don't know why, except maybe the reasoning its a wargame. Before AMI went HoC, most people respected AMI for being a haven for the people on vacation. A core group of people maintained the political and militant structure to guard off the random attack.
4. Kreger and Koolaid bitching about abusing bugs. Abusing bugs is sadly part of the game. If anybody can honestly say that they've always turned in a bug without abusing it, or passing the info on to someone else the bug because it'd personally benefit themselves or their friends. IE, who wouldn't abuse a bug to save their 380 DP rhino if they had the bug available. At the same report, who wouldn't abuse a bug to kill an enemies mechs? Honor is only observed by people who A) Don't care anymore and can afford honor. B) People who aren't gaining anything by not observing it.
Honor is a pleasant thing to think about, but hardly practiced. Numerous bugs and exploits have been used by either side.
5. Kreger mentioning that he is making an offer to buy the game. Why make such a public statement when belittling and accusing an enemy of abusing bugs. Is this to scare them into submission? Seriously, if a deal has been struck, fine announce it. But don't do it when writing propaganda.
So Dee, why do you not like them?
P.S. Randy & Wayward, $100,000 cash up front is my offer. Get in touch.
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 3285
Loc: Nottingham, UK
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: bunkedunder]
#147755 - 07/02/07 03:45 PM (62.136.156.87)
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Why do you CARE? Just kill them.
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Haha, you people think admins still look at these forums.
Visit the Platonian! Updated! Stuff! Things! Click!
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Dee
Sergeant Major
Reged: 02/15/06
Posts: 248
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: bunkedunder]
#147756 - 07/02/07 04:02 PM (24.224.253.98)
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There now, I feel like I understand a bit more of where you are coming from and it certainly does add a bit more meaning to this topic, now that these particular issues you have with this group come up. It seems less like random hate, in my opinion. I think I'd like to respond to some of your reasons.
3- I completely agree with this one....and with Logres' ranting as well before he left. Lots of finger pointing....
But to correct you a bit, AMI has become more millitant since Logres called DEST dishonorable last year, suspended RoE and fwared a DEST faction with little to no concern for the empires in his faction (seemingly). The idea was to protect another AMI faction from being fwar'd (as the rumors were going), but after losing horribly that faction was warred and lost anyway. DEST members didn't take kindly to being called out as dishonorable and the self righteous ranting, plus the insinuations that AMI was about to hand DEST their butts...So since then DEST has been eating AMI for a while. AMI had little choice but to get SOME militants amongst them.
4- I don't think abusing bugs is a part of the game, or shouldn't be. I don't abuse bugs...The game is strongly inclined towards loopholes though. It seems that the game thrives on finding and exploiting perfectly legitimate (at the time) loopholes...
5- Yeah....That sort of thing, purchasing neveron, should really NOT be thrown around like that. IF you are going to buy this game, it really makes it seem like those against you are in for some bad times. The owner of the game should, after all, be completely neutral....
But as for my reason... Logres and/or KOOLAID were personally responsible for losses to some empires (big losses to people I like) and directly responsible for the losses they took in the fwar. After pointing out the incompetence of the leaders at war, stating I wasn't following them into another war and calling for someone to replace Logres until such time that he was capable of leading the alliance in war....well....things happened, I was appropriately harsh (in my opinion) and was removed from the alliance. I don't like to talk and make big claims and boasts BEFORE fighting someone. AMI as a whole was embarassed (or should have been) thanks to Logres/KOOLAID's poor leading and poor choice of public statement. I don't take well to being made a fool of like that by my allies and especially my leaders.
I had people agree with me at the time, I had people come to agree with me over time and I even had some people tell me after a long time that I was right (one even apologised). I still have some friends in AMI, and plenty of people I haven't lost respect for (tobias, mith, etc..), but it bothers me that they are being dragged down by this sort of thing. So that's most of my issues with AMI, in a nutshell. I'm gonna leave it at that though, because I could rant all day. I normally would. :P
~Dee
ps- to the ami people I respect but didn't mention...sorry :P just imagine your name is there too.
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...my bed was on fire once. I blame the gnomes.
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Dee]
#147758 - 07/03/07 03:52 AM (69.178.97.208)
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Bottom line, Dee, is that if AMI were to switch sides and begin hitting HoC your view of them would not change because its based upon pragmatic opinion. bunkedunder, however, has "selective criticism disease" much like many others in the game (myself included from time to time) and would probably begin loving them to death. Its all in the difference between objectivity and subjectivity. And for many on Nev there is nothing if it is not completely subjective.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Katrar]
#147760 - 07/03/07 04:13 AM (131.155.85.174)
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I still say; it's better to use the pilots you got in a single emp to use it fully, than to use them distributed in 2. If not well coordinated, can swing over one side, and with 1 surrendered only 1:1 remains.
Now to get there, it might take a fair bit of killing stuff to cf the first emp in the first place.
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Rather to blow up, then.
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frey
Newbie
Reged: 10/09/06
Posts: 9
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: bunkedunder]
#147762 - 07/03/07 07:43 AM (68.149.181.213)
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Some people think they are brave. Some prove it by NEVER getting onto a fight without having overwhelming numerical superiority. Yes, the DoN have proven juist how low it is possible to sink in the Neveron Community. Congratulations, DoN, a new hitherto unacheived low for the whole game and everyone in it.
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Bear21
Sergeant Major
Reged: 04/08/06
Posts: 205
Loc: Australia
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: frey]
#147763 - 07/03/07 08:01 AM (121.45.237.151)
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Quote:
Congratulations, DoN, a new hitherto unacheived low for the whole game and everyone in it.
You must be joking! 
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1791
Loc: europe
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Re: The Don Travesty
[Re: Bear21]
#147764 - 07/03/07 10:28 AM (139.174.165.206)
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i really didn't have much respect for AMI as an alliance and particulary for it's leadership. Fighting them was some of the most annoying in my nev time. (only thing more disgusting was fighting hoppy)
The weird thing however is that while AMIs leadership used to be very dishonourable and disrespectfull, i talked to a lot of their members who felt the same, and did not at all like their actions. Even worse, a lot of those peoples empires have been sacrificed needlessly in sometimes pretty stupid LW attempts. Feeding the predators in DEST.
Very annoying was also the double standards of AMI, they complained about almost everything pointing to their RoE, while at the same time they used most unfair strategys in trying to destroy factions. When told about their RoE the reply was just, it doesn't apply on attacks on you, or it's not your buisness how and when we apply our RoE.
In my wars against HoC and UDC, or Kizo and WoB i typicaly had good relations to my direct opponents and their command, and only some pilots and notorious loudmouths tried to spoil the fun.
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I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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