Mercenary Contract Pay Re-Examined

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johnstark
10/03/07 01:18 AM
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From the FM: Mercs (Revised):
Quote:

A mercenary force's base payment for a given contract is the sum of the salaries (emphasis added) of all combat and non-combat personnel..., multiplied by the final contract multiplier...



-Field Manual: Mercenaries (Revised), Page 162.

There is a drastic loophole in these rules that has survived, unchallenged, for what... three editions now?

The loophole is this: A merc unit's payroll determines their contract pay, not their contribution to the employer's military abilities. Let me boil it down:

Assuming a contract multiplier of 5, a BLR-1G Battlemaster pilot who owns his own 'mech brings an 85 ton assault 'mech to the unit, plus his skills as a Regular Mechwarrior. His salary, as a regular mechwarrior is 1,500 c-bills per month. To put this into perspective, a meal at a typical restaurant (say, Denny's) costs 4 C-bills. (MW:RPG 3rd Ed. Pg. 157) I can get a good meal at a local restaurant for about $10 without going to a high-class joint (That's drink, entree, sharing an appetizer, and tipping the server). Given the average role-player's extravagant tastes for their characters, this seems a reasonable comparison. I figure a C-bill has the buying power of $2.50 USD. This means our 'mechwarrior's Salary here in Maine, USA would be about $3,750 a month. He makes about $40,000 a year before taxes. That seems appropriate.

An infantryman, however, makes only half that. $20,000 a year seems just a little shy for a soldier, but given that infantry aren't as valued by Inner Sphere forces, I guess it makes sense. (Actually, I just checked, the US Army pays E-3 Infantry Soldiers around $17,000/year so the Inner sphere seems to value its infantrymen MORE, but keep in mind that a mercenary infantry soldier has to pay his own room and board.)

The infantryman brings a 7.62mm rifle, or perhaps a 10mm pulse laser rifle if he's really ritzy. Plus, because of the way CBT handles infantry, he comes with 27 of his buddies. So far, no problem, all his buddies make jack squat too.

Okay. So what does an employer pay for the BLR-1G?

Well, with our negotiated contract multiplier, his salary of 1,500 means that the unit gets paid 7,500 C-bills per month more for having him along to fight! WOW!!!! No wonder the successor houses love to hire mercenaries!!! Why buy your own BLR-1G for tens of millions of C-bills when you can rent one for 7,500 per month???!!!!! This is the sweeeeeetest deal ever!

Now, that platoon of foot, rifle infantry? How much does it cost the employer to have them along?

Well, 750 c-bills, times 28 men... that's, ummm. *gets calculator* 21,000 per month times five... 105,000 c-bills per month!

And thus the problem is plain. For bringing a foot rifle platoon, the merc nets an over-expenses profit of 84,000 c-bills. For bringing the assault-class battlemech? 6,000 c-bills.

With jump-ships costing 50,000 per jump, per dropship, and the rediculous costs of repairing and maintaining the thing, this isn't even pretending to be a worthwhile job. It's funny to me, because FASA did such a wonderful job at making soldier's salaries relatively reasonable, and even made meal prices within rational bounds. Then, for a handful of items, all of a sudden they just weren't paying attention.

So it's up to us, guys. The Merc Handbook has been revised, and revised, and revised... I'm thinking that perhaps a combat unit's BV should be used to determine how much the unit gets paid. Units that bring battlemasters should get paid more than units bringing infantry platoons, that much should be obvious but the system put forth by FASA, and then Fan Pro, and now Catalyst makes it a HUGE financial boon to field nothing but infantry. Stalwart Support really has the right idea! Plus, if your 'mech gets toasted? That 7,500 C-bills a month just isn't going to pay you for that loss. But if your infantry get massacred? You can bet dollars-to-donuts that the $105,000 you got that month will buy you all the Hallmark cards you could ever need to send to their families! As an added bonus? Guess who's not picking up his paycheck that month! A good HR office and a sweet contract with an assault rifle manufacturer and you're on your way to fame and glory as a mercenary commander!

My question is this: is there something else we could use instead of Battle value? Keep in mind that this is for monthly pay, it should exceed the costs the unit incurrs in operating the equipment, with margins for repair and the like, but shouldn't be way, way out there. Mercs are, as discussed in my thread on jumpship routes and prices, supposed to be starving for cash and parts all the time.

I'd like to hear your thoughts, and if you've got a theory for a good metric for pay, use the following metric to determine the effect:

Merc Unit: Eddie's Exemplars
Size: Company
Composition: 4 'mechs, 4 tanks, 4 platoons of infantry
Lance 1: BLR-1G, CPLT-C1, JM6-S, COM-2D
Lance 2: 2 Scorpions, 1 Swift Wind, 1 Manticore
Lance 3: 2 Platoons of Foot-Rifle Infantry, 1 Platoon of Jump-Laser Infantry, 1 Platoon of Motorized-SRM Infantry

For now we're just looking at the contract payment. All persons are regulars.
Keep this in mind for sanity checking:
Payroll: 95,000 (4 MWs, 10 Tank crew, 112 Infantrymen)
Maintenance: 2,240 (4 'mechs, 4 tanks, 16 Squads)
Battle Value: 4,695 (BLR - 1,212; CPLT - 1,165; COM - 432; JM6 - 749; Scorpions - 2x163; Swift Wind - 25; Manticore - 619; Foot Infantry - 2x23; Jump Infantry - 41; Motorized Infantry - 70)
FASA Contract Pay after x5 multiplier: 475,000 C-bills per month.

Compare To:
Merc Unit: Ceteris Paribus
Size: Company
Composition: 12 'mechs
Lance 1: BLR-1G, CPLT-C1, JM6-S, RFL-3N
Lance 2: LCT-1V, COM-2D, JR7-D, CDA-2A
Lance 3: SHD-2H, WVR-6R, HBK-4G, WTH-1

Payroll: 18,000 (12 MWs)
Maintenance: 3,600 (12 mechs)
Battle Value: 9,444 (BLR - 1,212; CPLT - 1,165; JM6 - 749; RFL - 797; LCT - 356; COM - 432; JR7 - 669; CDA - 567; SHD - 918; WVR - 957; HBK - 851; WTH - 771)
FASA Contracy Pay after x5 Multiplier: 90,000 C-bills per month.

By Canon the all-'mech unit makes less than one fifth what the 'mech/tank/PBI unit does. The all 'mech unit, however, has more than double the Battle Value.

If you've got another metric, let me know.
CrayModerator
10/03/07 05:39 PM
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Quote:

From the FM: Mercs (Revised):
I figure a C-bill has the buying power of $2.50 USD.




MW3 specifies $3 (US 1999) on...pg131. So, close enough

Quote:

This means our 'mechwarrior's Salary here in Maine, USA would be about $3,750 a month. He makes about $40,000 a year before taxes. That seems appropriate.




Incidentally, that also means a mechwarrior with an assault mech barely pulls in more than the Lyran per capita average. The average Lyran income is 17,000 Kroner, or 14,450CB, per the new House Steiner Handbook. Figuring that only about half the population is employed (i.e., only 3-4% unemployment in the employable age groups), that means the average Lyran worker is pulling in about 29,000CB per year. Even at the low end of the scale, in the impoverished 3020s, the average Capellan pulled in 7200 L-bills per year, or about 4000CB...which would be 8000CB per worker per year.

Now, IRL, soldiering isn't the way to fast wealth, but in a society where only about 1 in 100 million people are mechwarriors, the payscales are a bit screwy.

Quote:

I'd like to hear your thoughts, and if you've got a theory for a good metric for pay,




Hmm. Since BV isn't something employers would recognize in-character, how about, like, 10% of hardware (and infantry training) cost per year under contract, plus 3-5x salaries (covering salaries and other overhead expenses), plus some level of expenses (ammo, fuel, etc.)?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
johnstark
10/03/07 07:39 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

This means our 'mechwarrior's Salary here in Maine, USA would be about $3,750 a month. He makes about $40,000 a year before taxes. That seems appropriate.




Incidentally, that also means a mechwarrior with an assault mech barely pulls in more than the Lyran per capita average. The average Lyran income is 17,000 Kroner, or 14,450CB, per the new House Steiner Handbook. Figuring that only about half the population is employed (i.e., only 3-4% unemployment in the employable age groups), that means the average Lyran worker is pulling in about 29,000CB per year. Even at the low end of the scale, in the impoverished 3020s, the average Capellan pulled in 7200 L-bills per year, or about 4000CB...which would be 8000CB per worker per year.

Now, IRL, soldiering isn't the way to fast wealth, but in a society where only about 1 in 100 million people are mechwarriors, the payscales are a bit screwy.




That's a very good point. Mechwarriors should probably be making quite a bit more. It is, however, somewhat deceptive to use Lyran incomes as an average - the Lyran alliance is the richest nation in the world, AND has the richest merchants in the world, there's probably more than a handful of Bill Gates' and Warren Buffets throwing off the average. Also, the 14,450 CB figure can be assumed to already account for only half the population. I don't think economists include persons who don't work in per-capita earning figures. I could be mistaken on this, however. Certainly pumping up MW pay moves us closer to mending the 'wage gap' between a 'mech and an infantry platoon, but it's a pretty big gap for this alone to do it.


Quote:


Hmm. Since BV isn't something employers would recognize in-character, how about, like, 10% of hardware (and infantry training) cost per year under contract, plus 3-5x salaries (covering salaries and other overhead expenses), plus some level of expenses (ammo, fuel, etc.)?




I thought about 'mech cost being a good metric but this leads into some other problems. Namely, oldtech vs. newtech, and it gets especially ugly if there's clan salvage involved. Your figure, however, means that contract pay would be based upon Return on Assets which - in today's world - is an actual metric used by businesses so it isn't entirely out of the question.

But one XL engine can now make the difference as they are exceedingly costly as are the 'mechs they're installed in. The Battlevalue is much more constant from an old tech to a new tech mech of the same model.

Your point that BV isn't known by an employer or merc unit ICly, but a counter argument to this point could be made using Adam Smith's 'invisible hand' theory. They may not be able to quantify or explain why they feel this is a fair price to pay for this kind of unit, but experienced commanders expect that a given 'mech is worth X amount of resources. They have to make those decisions all the time.

Ironically, the Clans DO seem to have a sense of BV in an IC sense... their bidding process suggests that at some intuitive level they know how well a given unit will perform in battle. I've never had a unit RP the nitty and gritty of haggling, usually we just assume "Haggling Happened Here" and move on. (My players are numberhackers, not masochists!)

That said, I do have to admit that the RoA thing is kind of sexy in its own way.
Nightward
10/08/07 03:14 AM
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A lot depends on travel. In my current campaign, my friend's outfit was bankrupted by DropShip and JumpShip fees.

My present unit's pay scale is astronomical and sits at about 80 million for what winds up being, at most, a 1 to 3-month deal. It seems to me the contract fees are massively over-priced, but on the other hand, I've been able to win every single campaign game we've played, so in-universe my outfit makes the Gray Death Legion look like hard-done-by no-hopers, so who knows?

What I can say is that the contract generation system sets up contracts that are frequently at odds with the fluff. Maybe if it was all randomly rolled and your negotiation pool was more limited, things would seem a little more reasonable, but I have neither the time nor the inclination to monkey around with it.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
Dester
10/08/07 01:55 PM
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For the Mercenary's Handbook pay stuff that little to know play testing was done. They just threw some numbers/ formulas together that sounded reasonable, crunched some numbers and never really tested it.

Figure it this way, its a balance of supply and demand.

For contracts close to Outreach, Merc units are plentiful and have a short travel time to a contract thus the employer can pay less and compensate less for travel.

The farther from Outreach, fewer and fewer merc units become avaliable. Thus the employer must up the pay to be competitive or settle for whats avaliable locally. This also evolves into revolving contracts for units. An employer will offer a bouns to keep a merc unit around for another year then have to pay the high transportation fees to bring another unit out. Also a merc unit can afford to take a lower salary/ transport comp if his next job is only 2 jumps away for a neiboring nation/ power then if he had to jump all the way back to outreach or 1/2 way across the IS.

While outreach is the "mecca of the mercenry world", few units will see outreach once they are formed and earned a reputation. To be sure they will have agents to higher new talent, new equipment, and to scout out new contracts, but it is more economical to skip Outreach all together. Especially if its out of the way to go there between contracts.
Karagin
10/08/07 05:12 PM
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Outreach would be the best place to get hired, but then again you have other choices, Galatea or try your luck with the on going mess in the Chaos March or try for WoB contract, that is if you are using the WoB storyline and all that goes with it...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Greyslayer
10/09/07 10:14 AM
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What is meant is that while you might have administration staff in the Hiring Hall, your troops may never actually set foot on Outreach again after the initial travelling to their first job.

Houses like Davion had Liason departments specifically dealing with Mercenaries prior to Outreach and probably would have existed for those Mercenaries on rolling contracts.

As for the 'bug' mentioned earlier it was used by one or two players to extort money in our mercenary contracts. Me I prefered to make the money out on the battlefield rather than fielding a dodgey battalion of troops by fielding a company of infantry to 'protect' a lance of mechs to start with, lose the contract and still come out rich.

I had revised the system which put a straight value on mechs for weight class and base experience of the unit. Obviously vehicles and infantry got paid substantially less but more than enough to pay the wages and maintain equipment.

You would think Houses would prefer to transport the mercenaries themselves since I wouldn't like an armed force being taken to one destination from another in an armed vessel (say something like a union class dropship) not under the control of the house. You could possibly link this kind of thing to the level of 'command rights' the unit has.... Integrated or less travel is free, for more 'flexible' command rights hook your thumb out and start hiking.
johnstark
10/09/07 10:29 AM
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Assuming it's not a trade secret Greyslayer, I'd love to see the system you developed (as in hard numbers).

The purpose of this thread is to share and jointly develop alternatives.
Greyslayer
10/09/07 10:51 AM
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Unless a trade secret would be that I have saved it somewhere at home (currently at work) on one of my pcs on a directory I cannot remember whether I was able the salvage one of the two times that pc decided to crash.

I'll see what I can do as the maths of the situation is currently not fresh in my mind.
Askhati
01/27/08 06:44 AM
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Question here on merc DropShips: how common would it be for a unit to own&operate their own DropShips (say two), and what model DropShip could reasonably be expected?
Evolve or DIE!
Christopher_Perkins
01/27/08 12:01 PM
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Quote:

I figure a C-bill has the buying power of $2.50 USD. This means our 'mechwarrior's Salary here in Maine, USA would be about $3,750 a month. He makes about $40,000 a year before taxes. That seems appropriate.




p. 103 {Mechwarrior / BattleTech RPG} 1st Edition places the C-bill as equivelent to $5 in 1985 Dollars

p. 144 {Mechwarrior / BattleTech RPG} 2nd Edition places the C-bill as equivelent to $5 in 1991 Dollars

(p.131 of MW3e? didnt think to look there ... Equipment???)

This information will possibly change your numbers somewhat... (unless the value of the dollar has dropped in comparison with the imaginary C-Bill in the last 23 years due to "Real World" (its a numbers game, hense the quotes) inflation


Quote:

By Canon the all-'mech unit makes less than one fifth what the 'mech/tank/PBI unit does. The all 'mech unit, however, has more than double the Battle Value.




The old statement in MHB 1e was that it cost about as much to pay and maintain an infantry squad as it did to pay and maintain a single 'MechWarrior and his BattleMech.

One thing to consider is that in most houses and organizations, the Lowest Mechwarrior is the equivelent to a Sergeant while the lowest crewman or trooper is a private and doesnt even command himself.

A Mechwarrior is the BattleMech's commander - and the BattleMech is treated as equivelent to a squad, and that is if he does not own a mech... if he owns his mech, he is the equivelent to a Master/Talon Sergeant.
Christopher Robin Perkins

It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield


Edited by Christopher_Perkins (01/28/08 01:09 AM)
Greyslayer
03/08/08 07:19 PM
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'Owning' dropships would be extremely rare for mercenary units. Some might have fairly exclusive deals with certain mercenary units while other accept higher pay to remain loyal to that unit until a better paying customer comes along. Remember dropships cost more than the entire mercenary unit they end up carrying into conflict so when faced with expanding their military force to increase profits or saving to buy a dropship most commanders would probably accept that they have to pay for their rides.

Depending on the period would be which dropship you will find common. During the time of the star league Confederate Dropships were fairly common but come time of the 3rd and 4th Succession War they were difficult to find and very hard to repair as replacement parts hadn't be seriously manufactured for many a year.

Leopard Class and Union Class dropships would be the most common dropships seen by mercenaries followed by Gazelle for vehicle units perhaps.
Christopher_Perkins
03/09/08 12:31 PM
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Askhati_Sonix

Many mercenary units own DropShips
it is rare for even house Units to have Exclusive control of JumpShips...
it is possible to own Jumpships, but it places you among the elite...

What size of a unit are you looking at, or are you designing the unit after you determine how large a ship or ships you can get?

What Methods are you using to determine the unit?

Currently the available methds to determine a unit are:

Basic Method from
BattleTech Manual: The Rules of Warfare (3025)
BattleTech Compendium (3050)
BattleTech Compendium: The Rules of Warfare (3050)
BattleTech Master Rules (3054?)

Standard Method from
BattleTech RPG, 1st Edition (Mechwarrior 1st Edition) (3025)
BattleTech RPG, 2nd Edition (Mechwarrior 2nd Edition) (3050) & BattleTech RPG 2nd Edition Companion, ("Mechwarrior Companion")
BattleTech RPG, 3rd Edition (Mechwarrior 3rd Edition) (3064) & BattleTech RPG 3rd Edition Companion, tion ("BattleTech Companion")

Advanced / in depth Method from
Mercenaries Handbook (3025) (RPG 1st Editon)
Mercenaries Handbook 3055 (3055) (RPG 2nd Edition)
Field Manual Mercenaries (3054) (RPG 2nd Edition)
Field Manual Mercenaries Revised (RPG 3rd Edition)


The Best way to generate a unit is to create the characters in the RPG, then fleash out the unit in the Companion Mercenaries Handbook or Field Manual... and using this method you are able to determine the core of the unit and if one of the characters pilots (vehicle) and possibly even owns the vehicle (owns vehicle) you will know this from the outset...

2nd Best is to generate a unit in the BattleTech Campaign system and then shoehorn it into the Mercenaries Handbook or Field Manual
Christopher Robin Perkins

It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
06/20/08 09:28 AM
70.0.215.185

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Remember that the employer might have to pay for all damages to equipment. So having a 20 million CBill mech on the battle field destroyed might not be looking so hot to the bean counters. If I contracted out some of my army. I would be looking at salvage rights and replacement rights very carefully. Of course I would not be willing to have part of my army gone on a mutable year contract. I would only contract out for raids or counter attack contracts. It does help that I do have my own drop/jump ship fleet. Ruling your own soler system does have some advantages. ^_^

Oh my jump ships and military drop ship fleets are rarely used together. The military drop ships are for more of a quick response for planet defense. aka to ferry troops to where the attackers are on planet. My jump ships are for picking up needed supplies and delivering the weapons that I sold to my customers.

I do love my mule drop ships. Well my house does have a donkey as its coat of arms.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!


Edited by His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey (06/20/08 09:43 AM)
Christopher_Perkins
06/21/08 07:11 AM
24.125.201.167

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Supply, Maintenence, and Repair are items negotiable in the contract...

The Base Pay for the contract is intended to make it so that the unit, at the MINIMUM, can pay its salaries.

Thus it's not a Loop Hole...
Played Correctly, units will die fast if they forget to account for Supply, Maintenence, Replacement and Repair.
You Need to Negotiate for these things...
Full Supply by the house is a Free Ride, that way the base pay for the contract is a net wash with the Salaries Paid out.



a Unit with a Platoon of Infantry and a Lance of mechs has its own security forces for the Base & Depot and a Combat arm of a Lance of Mechs...

If you do not provide your own security forces you place yourself at the mercy of fate, or the mercy of your employer of he "provides security" for your technical Staff and Dependents.

that is, this is NOT one of the places where the Writers Screwed up... This is one of the places where the Writers made is so that a Player unit had an even shot at maintaining Solvency..

This is much better than it treated Canon Units like the Waco Rangers and Wilson's Hussars that are barely able to maintain their units


Granted... a real winning strategy [contempt]is to Come in heavily loaded with infantry to get the contract pay way up and then use human wave attacks so that you do not have to pay out the salaries.[/contempt]
Christopher Robin Perkins

It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
Dester
06/25/08 06:44 PM
216.57.96.1

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The book C-bill value contract totally blows. A price tag should be based on combat capabilies and the assumed duities of the merc unit.

Infantry make little since in that regard to keep on an active roster unless they have a specialized misson. police/ urban defence, special opts of sabatoge, intel, taking dropships/ jump ships (ie marines) ect...

All that said, it is quite possible for a merc unit to take a contract that pays less then what it costs for all its salaries in some situations. Such as, expecting a big haul of salvage, pro-bono type thing, its all you can find and don't want to sell of equiment, company store problem, ect...

hope that helps
Dester
Christopher_Perkins
06/25/08 07:21 PM
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Quote:


The book C-bill value contract totally blows. A price tag should be based on combat capabilies and the assumed duities of the merc unit.





You are looking at it backwards...

The unit already won the Contract... the Contract MINIMUM payment is made up of the Salaries of the unit...

Yes, This is the reverse of what would happen in real life with

1: the Units Bidding for any given contract Determining Their Bids based on the minimum requirements (Such as the total Salaries for the unit... INCLUDING support Staff... sound familiar?)
2: padding it a little to give it a profit margin...
3: The Group offering the contract determining what unit best fits the needs.

The only thing is, generally, IN GAME (An not IGU) the UNIT has already more or less won the contract... You are, In effect, in the process of determining what the winning bid was in the Basic Mercenary Game... The Actual RolePlaying variant is more realistic (did you guys bother looking for it before you declared that it was unrealistic for the Unit to start with a minimum bid of its salaries, the most expensive of the operating costs?)


Quote:


Infantry make little since in that regard to keep on an active roster unless they have a specialized misson. police/ urban defence, special opts of sabatoge, intel, taking dropships/ jump ships (ie marines) ect...





But Infantry Troops have a bonified use IRL and IGU, They HOLD the ground that BattleMechs IGU, and Tanks IGU / IRL take.

BattleMechs are actually the specialized forces... they cannot hold ground, they do not serve as effective city defense forces, they cannot really fight from fortified positions, etc...

BattleMechs fight other BattleMechs, they suck against fighters, and outclass most formations... but they cannot take or hold ground.


Quote:


All that said, it is quite possible for a merc unit to take a contract that pays less then what it costs for all its salaries in some situations. Such as, expecting a big haul of salvage, pro-bono type thing, its all you can find and don't want to sell of equiment, company store problem, ect...





That is a little thing i like to call... Bankruptcy

Yes it is... and that is what happened to Wilson's Hussars and the other Canon hard luck units... but the "Minimum Bid" contract gives you an idea of the units break point...

If you live below the margin for too long... the Unit falls apart and goes their own seperate ways.
Christopher Robin Perkins

It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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