Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Lets ban FWAR
#149137 - 01/02/08 05:17 PM (24.17.223.10)
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Why havn't we done this yet?
I posted a public nevmail response that I will quote here:
Quote:
Its our own fault to some degree. I know that about a year ago I personally appealed to the community to shun FWAR, as it is so buggy, abuse prone and just plain destructive, and aside from a bunch of HoC people lending their initial support to the idea (weve always hated FWAR, as one of the main things that ruined the game) I got a giant FU from the rest of you.
There are all kinds of things we COULD do as a community to ease the burden, if only a little bit. But as someone else said, there will always be a bunch of people that dont care.
Things like coring, tent city spreading etc (that all suck) are now required, quite simply, because everyone does it. It sucks, but it would be suicide and stupid to decide not to core, or tent, as a statement, and at the expense of your empires survivability.
Fwar though, that ones on us. Its done NOTHING but bring misery to the game, and yet we continue to use it. I hate Fwar and I think that if you care one shit about the game and its community, you probably do too. So why do we continue to use this abomination that Randy and Wayward devised to slaughter the player, empire and unit count in the game. It is THEIR tool, not yours/ours. Using Fwar is like taking some wicked powerful steroids: they give you a boost in the short term, at the expense of years off your life (and the risk of growing man boobs).
In this limited sense, I blame the community.
Kato
Fwar serves two purposes: its a cheap way out, or its guaranteed pwnage. Both of which never used to be necessary on Neveron. When people bit off more than they could chew, they suffered for it. And when people pwned, they did so out of effort, not because some shoddy code backed them up 100%.
I personally blame Fwar code as the first domino that was tipped in 2005, which brought us ultimately to the point we are as a game today. There are many other dominos that followed, of course, but Fwar was the first.
It was intended to help us, at least that was what we were told. It was supposed to be a DEFENSIVE tool. It is not, never was, and was PROBABLY never really intended to be. We now know, in hindsight, that Randy and Wayward in 2005 implemented a plan designed to reduce the number of empires and units in the game, through the sheer force of attrition. That is what Fwar was part of. It wasn't an element of the game intended to benefit you or me, it was intended to fulfil a goal on Nev's part that we as a community are almost universally opposed to.
I tried before and I failed, but I will try again. Will you, my fellow players, shun this admin tool of our own destruction? Will you join with me in shunning Fwar, and letting its destructive purpose sit dormant as we try to actually enjoy this game again on our own terms?
I am not proposing this out of a position of weakness. My faction, Kommando Korps{HoC} has never lost an Fwar, and is primed to destroy at its level. My HoC brethren have proven their deadly efficiancy at Fwar routinely. But for what gain? What has all this victory brought us? What has it brought you? What benefit have you gained from this intentional rape? What benefit has Neveron gained?
I say that we have been fooled long enough. Fwar is not your friend, and it is not mine. We have in fact been given the guns that we are expected to ultimately shoot ourselves with, and many of us have already pulled the triggers.
Enough.
So I ask again, will you abandon Fwar? I can't do it alone, it will take everyone to make it work. It's a long shot, I know, but I strongly feel that its about the only real thing we can do as a community in the short term that would benefit all, and show our solidary. We used to be a community, and perhaps we can become one again.
Say no to Fwar. Do it not for yourself, do it for the game.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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Dee
Sergeant Major
Reged: 02/15/06
Posts: 248
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: Katrar]
#149139 - 01/02/08 05:53 PM (24.224.255.115)
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Won't happen. Ever.
Simple matter of fact. Owners either don't want to war and want to be safe from having to or don't want to be forced into fighting empires they can't beat (or believe they can't).
What good are gaming morals when it costs you your entire past and future in the game?
Considering the amount of times I have seen empires escape brutal combat losses by utilizing the FWar system I can honestly say it's more of a defensive and stalling tool than anything else. A way to perpetually avoid combat. Or in the case of MY faction, it's a way to have an enemy faction try to indefinitely stall you by repeated fwars.
Do I think we should have FWars? No. But cowards cower. Take a look at the fake fwar log that's up right now and you'll see my point.
~Dee
edit- here it is, for those in need:
* 2d 23 [OTK-RL] OrderOfTheTerranKnights-RedLegion [NC-HEC] Nev Com - Honorarius Excubitor Centuriatus
1 OTK faction and 1 NC faction, essentially the same group.
* 25d 22 [HH] Havok's Harassers [CW:TW] Clan Wolf: Terran Wolves
HH and 1 CW faction, again essentially the same group.
* 23d 5 [OTK-S8] Order of the Terran Knights: Section 8 [HL:C] House Liao: Chosen
2 more OTK factions.
* 2d 6 [RoH] Reign of Hell [NI-Jr] Neveron Independents - Jr Academy
Two factions under Hannibal. Can't recall their whole group's name.
* 16d 2 [STB] Simply The Best [ÐÐ-TC] Ðëa†h Ðëalërs - Thë Third Commiñg
STB and a 4th OTK faction, essentially the same group again.
I believe this edit makes all the necessary points.
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...my bed was on fire once. I blame the gnomes.
Edited by Dee (01/02/08 05:58 PM)
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 3285
Loc: Nottingham, UK
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: Katrar]
#149140 - 01/02/08 05:58 PM (84.64.238.217)
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The Legion alliance does not FWAR offensively, and we (for the most part) never have. I believe that in our time we have started two offensive fwars - the first was back when you had to fwar for multies, and the second when we wanted to get away from SLDF (and a fat lot of good that did us).
However, I am willing to commit my alliance to not starting offensive FWARs, although, like KK{HoC}, we've won almost every one we've been involved with.
FWARs are certainly a nasty thing, and they have major problems. There's no such thing as FWAR surrender - ie, you can still fwar someone even if they are totally surrendered to you, or you to them. This means that you can tie up an enemy faction in an utterly cowardly way, especially when your faction is made up of empires which are actually unattackable for other reasons.
Then there's fwar to escape. Either in a fake fwar (done that once), or to fwar one of your attackers to stop outside empires attacking (again, done it once).
But, I present the coward's guide to winning an FWAR:
1) Get a large empire
2) Find a small faction whose FL is smaller than your large empire
3) get PLENTY of small empires.
4) FWAR your opponent. Send in all your unallied smaller empires so that they have to return the FDOW. You now have a dow with your huge empire on one much smaller, which should be easy, even for you.
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Haha, you people think admins still look at these forums.
Visit the Platonian! Updated! Stuff! Things! Click!
Edited by mattbuck (01/02/08 06:06 PM)
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wonko
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/08/06
Posts: 273
Loc: park city UT
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: mattbuck]
#149141 - 01/03/08 03:23 AM (66.227.207.192)
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yup....f-war sux
will this work?....
if we can get all the main alliance leaders to agree to it, it just might.
i'll leave all that crap to the politicians, not my thing
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Democrats are the root of all evil
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NeverSayNever
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 11/18/02
Posts: 1655
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: Katrar]
#149144 - 01/03/08 03:00 PM (78.49.87.156)
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Quote:
Why havn't we done this [= "... ban FWAR"] yet?
[Devil's advocate ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_advocate ) mode ON]
Maybe because your faction, Kommando Korps{HoC}, has always won its FWars so far, Katrar?
Maybe because your alliance mates / allies (for example UDC, Gunner's KOS (HoC), and so on) almost always won their FWars?
Why insist on changing / banning a feature if you - and or your faction / alliance mates - almost always benefited from it, at least in the past?
Yes, I got to admit that you, Katrar - and a couple of your HoC allies as well -, voiced some concerns about FWar/s early on, but I sincerely doubt that you, Katrar, - and or most if not all your friends / allies as well -, ever really hesitated - and or complained - when it came to reaping the benefits of a won FWar.
Examples?
Gunner ([KOS], HoC) vs. an outnumbered and outgunned (odds 3 to 1?) Sword of Light - Ivory Dragon [SoL-ID] faction, resulting in a 'glorious' FWar 'victory' for KOS?
Two UDC factions vs. WoB Toyoma (first series of consecutive FWars?)?
Quote:
Quote:
[...]
Things like coring, tent city spreading etc (that all suck) are now required, quite simply, because everyone does it. It sucks, but it would be suicide and stupid to decide not to core, or tent, as a statement, and at the expense of your empires survivability.
And fake FWars, for example between friends / allies - usually with minimized harm done to all parties involved -, are now kind of required as well, simply to help prevent players from having to fight way too many real FWars - usually causing maximized destruction and frustration for the faction losing its FWar.
In general the need for a fake FWar increases the more often a faction gets struck by real FWars (and or consecutive real FWars) - and or uber LW / raider empires of 'equal' [cough, cough, yeah, sure] level - and or 'comparable' [cough, cough] size - yeah, sure one can 'compare' odds of 2 to 1, or 3 to 1, or ..., but this does not necessarily balance out in favor of the loser/victim, errrrm, sorry, I meant defender ...
Quote:
Quote:
[...]
Using Fwar is like taking some wicked powerful steroids: they give you a boost in the short term, at the expense of years off your life (and the risk of growing man boobs).
Well, then excessive (ab)use of DP only uber toys - and or uber upgraded Munchkin Mechs (for example some of the uber upgraded Marauder-4As out there, with dropship class armor and or weapons, come to mind) could and should be evaluated and seen in a pretty similar light, like some wicked powerful steroids: they give you a boost in the short term, at the expense of years off your life (and the risk of growing man [censored] - and or shrinking [censored] ..., [SCNR]) ...
Quote:
Fwar serves two purposes: its a cheap way out, or its guaranteed pwnage.
Well, usually, at least if HoC - and or friends - starts a FWar, it tends to turn out as guaranteed ownage of the defending faction.
Many - if not most, or all - fake FWars on the other hand usually tend to get started to help prevent the 'fun' of guaranteed total ownage for a defending faction during yet another real FWar against all odds.
Quote:
Both of which never used to be necessary on Neveron.
Are you kidding me? It is - and or pretty much always was - all about total ownage on Neveron.
Examples?
Specialized, low level, NOOB killer, uber LW empire/s running rampant on "NOOB Cannibal island" (TM)?
Specialized uber LW empires (e.g. like some level 5 uber LW empire - which shall not be named now, to help protect the 'innocent' -, with a Stone Rhino (plus some more DP only toys for some added fire support)) crushing any and all opposition of 'equal' [cough, cough] level?
Specialized high level uber LW empires with almost unconquerable / not rehittable hot drop only uber city core areas raiding other players empires of 'equal' [cough, cough] level without really having to worry about retaliation?
Gangs / 'Teams' of uber LW empires of equal level, gangbanging / teamworking a singled out opponent of 'equal' [cough, cough] level to death?
Quote:
When people bit off more than they could chew, they suffered for it.
Or they simply call for some more 'fire support' from some friendly / allied empires of 'equal' [cough, cough] level to help them pin down and ultimately crush their opponent ...
Quote:
And when people pwned, they did so out of effort, not because some shoddy code backed them up 100%.
Or they simply owned because they could rely on even more empires of 'equal' [cough, cough] (and or higher (sugar daddy empires with vast surplus of Nevcash)) level for backup - and or some added fire / financial support ...
Quote:
It was intended to help us, at least that was what we were told. It was supposed to be a DEFENSIVE tool. It is not, never was, and was PROBABLY never really intended to be.
Like almost any tool / feature FWars can be used to attack (pin down your victim - and ensure total ownage) - or defend (fake FWar).
IMVHO the real issue you, Katrar - and others with a less defensive empire set up as well (Dee? Mattbuck? Wonko? ...?), got with FWars, or more precisely defensive / fake FWars, is that it looks like that your preferred prey / FWar victims of the past managed to successfully use fake FWars to their advantage (less easy FWar prey for the predator factions in range available?)
Instead of waiting for the inevitable to happen (getting hit by a real FWar with almost guaranteed ownage and devastating losses) smart faction leaders may use the option to launch a defensive fake FWar to help their faction survive, while suffering only moderate losses (Nevcash, military hardware, etc.) instead of truly devastating losses due to a real FWar.
Apparently the fake defensive FWars that you - and some others - despise so much can be used as a defensive tool / feature as well ...
Quote:
Will you join with me in shunning Fwar, and letting its destructive purpose sit dormant as we try to actually enjoy this game again on our own terms?
Well, playing the role of "Devil's advocate" here, I've got to finally ask the "Cui Bono?" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cui_bono ) question now: Who benefits more should FWars - including defensive fake FWars - get removed as a tool / feature?
At the moment a fake defensive FWar is pretty much the only option to evade a real FWar against a way superior opponent. In addition at the moment a fake defensive FWar is pretty much the only option for a faction to help it recover from the devastating losses caused by a real FWar ...
Of course the warmongerers already realized that their easy FWar prey got much smarter and much rarer - for example due to launching fake defensive FWars.
Should FWars - including defensive fake FWars - get removed then the warmongerers could simply return to their old strategies (unlimited gangbanging / 'teamworking'): resulting in total ownage once again, but without any options left for the victim/s to limit the gangbanging / 'teamworking', and or to recover from the unlimited gangbanging / 'teamworking' ...
Quote:
I am not proposing this out of a position of weakness. My faction, Kommando Korps{HoC} has never lost an Fwar, and is primed to destroy at its level. My HoC brethren have proven their deadly efficiancy at Fwar routinely. But for what gain? What has all this victory brought us? What has it brought you? What benefit have you gained from this intentional rape? What benefit has Neveron gained?
Which factions / alliances could still field the most - and or the most dangerous - LW empires?
HoC? UDC? Gen? DD? ...?
"Hony soit qui mal[achi] y pense" [SCNR]
editor's note (short excerpt from wikipedia):
Quote:
"Honi soit qui mal y pense" (Old French: "shame upon him who thinks evil of it")
Looks like should the FWar tool / feature - including fake / defensive FWars - get removed the ones probably benefitting the most from this change could be once again the people running all the old-style uber LW empires ...
Sad, but true: no more FWars tool / feature (including fake / defensive FWars) = 'glorious' return of pretty much unlimited gangbanging / 'teamworking' - and pretty much without any chances for recovery ...
Quote:
Say no to Fwar. Do it not for yourself, do it for the game.
Or: Say no to Fwar - including say no to fake defensive FWars as well, do it not for yourself, do it for the 'glorious' return of pretty much unlimited gangbanging / 'teamworking' - and do it for the guys who are well known for organizing gangbanging / 'teamworking' in the most efficient and or devastating ways?
If you want to know more about how it feels - and or ends - when you get gangbanged / 'teamworked' to death by some well known pros from some well known factions / alliances then please ask Nimon - or Hoppy (according to the public mails he got 'teamworked' out of the game recently) - both should definetely know by know ...
[Devil's advocate mode OFF]
Sure, FWars - including fake defensive FWars -, are not the greatest tool / feature / whatever, but without fake defensive FWars as a means for faction recovery drom devastating losses things could get worse - much worse ...
Enough said.
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NeverSayNever
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 11/18/02
Posts: 1655
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: Dee]
#149145 - 01/03/08 03:15 PM (78.49.87.156)
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Quote:
[...] But cowards cower. Take a look at the fake fwar log that's up right now and you'll see my point.
~Dee
edit- here it is, for those in need:
* 2d 23 [OTK-RL] OrderOfTheTerranKnights-RedLegion [NC-HEC] Nev Com - Honorarius Excubitor Centuriatus
1 OTK faction and 1 NC faction, essentially the same group.
* 25d 22 [HH] Havok's Harassers [CW:TW] Clan Wolf: Terran Wolves
HH and 1 CW faction, again essentially the same group.
* 23d 5 [OTK-S8] Order of the Terran Knights: Section 8 [HL:C] House Liao: Chosen
2 more OTK factions.
* 2d 6 [RoH] Reign of Hell [NI-Jr] Neveron Independents - Jr Academy
Two factions under Hannibal. Can't recall their whole group's name.
* 16d 2 [STB] Simply The Best [ÐÐ-TC] Ðëa†h Ðëalërs - Thë Third Commiñg
STB and a 4th OTK faction, essentially the same group again.
I believe this edit makes all the necessary points.
Well, I seriously doubt the aforementioned factions - and or their faction leaders - are going to 'like' - and or agree with - your 'evaluation' ([...]"But cowards cower."[...]), but let's wait and see ...
At least the following factions:
Quote:
[...]
* 2d 23 [OTK-RL] OrderOfTheTerranKnights-RedLegion [NC-HEC] Nev Com - Honorarius Excubitor Centuriatus
[...]
* 2d 6 [RoH] Reign of Hell [NI-Jr] Neveron Independents - Jr Academy
[...]
should have had a really "Merry Christmas!" and a really "Happy New Year!", because their faction leaders played smart, cared about their faction mates' holiday plans and managed to stay out of any real FWar troubles during the holidays ...
Edited by NeverSayNever (01/03/08 03:16 PM)
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Dee
Sergeant Major
Reged: 02/15/06
Posts: 248
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: NeverSayNever]
#149146 - 01/03/08 03:28 PM (24.224.255.115)
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Does anyone remember who first started making low end, single empire factions to fwar people with fls two or more levels below for guarenteed victory? If you guessed OTK and friends, you're correct!
HoC has been the victim of as many, or more, of the ugliest fwar abuses in the game as any other side. And don't even try dragging DD's name through the mud, as we're currently up to, what, 8 or 9 times CW has thrown itself at us to just keep us from even being able to war normally? What you forget is that the ANTI HOC movement is the one that currently and consistantly used the FWAR system as a way to rape independant factions at whim and will. And that most of the people HIDING in fake fwars now days never even BEEN in a real fwar recently, let alone lose a real one. Except OTK-RL, who did lose the lopsided fwar they started.
Things won't get worse by removing fwars. Whether they'd be better no one can say, but I can tell you now that things would NOT get worse.
~Dee
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...my bed was on fire once. I blame the gnomes.
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Dee
Sergeant Major
Reged: 02/15/06
Posts: 248
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: NeverSayNever]
#149147 - 01/03/08 03:34 PM (24.224.255.115)
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Well, I seriously doubt the aforementioned factions - and or their faction leaders - are going to 'like' - and or agree with - your 'evaluation' ([...]"But cowards cower."[...]), but let's wait and see ...
-they don't need to agree, but they certainly are cowering.
should have had a really "Merry Christmas!" and a really "Happy New Year!", because their faction leaders played smart, cared about their faction mates' holiday plans and managed to stay out of any real FWar troubles during the holidays ...
-Other than the fact that there was simply NO war activity by HoC during christmas and most people agreed to it before hand, and that OTK-RL coming on to the 30th day since starting it (which if you look at it is near the begining of December and no where near Christmas and was in NO WAY MADE BECAUSE OF CHRISTMAS).
Your arguement is purely biased and irrelevant. If you want to make some statements, please try to actually pay attention to recent activities and know these things instead of making your asinine assumptions and comments. Thanks. Unless of course you feel like doing the same thing for the opposing side as a neutral party in this arguement? Oh but you're not neutral are you? You're maliciously anti-hoc in this.
~Dee
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...my bed was on fire once. I blame the gnomes.
Edited by Dee (01/03/08 03:36 PM)
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: Dee]
#149148 - 01/03/08 09:32 PM (24.17.223.10)
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NSN that was some of the most convoluted and pointless logic I have ever read in these forums.
No, there is no ulterior motive in my long standing desire for Fwar to go the way of the dodo. I think that it is fairly evident that HoC does an order of magnitude more damage within the confines of FWar than it could possibly do outside of it. For you to even suggest otherwise is delusional.
I actually know for a concrete fact that FWar is ten times deadlier than traditional war due to the enormous assortment of facts and figures I have had to sort through in writing the HoC archive. Some of the biggest wars in Neveron's history, that lasted weeks and in some cases months, and stretched from one side of Neveron to the other, can barely touch some of the kill counts and sheer destruction of modern Fwars that last days at best.
So by your logic, NSN, the saving of the occasional solitary level 6-8 raider through fake Fwar outweighs the sheer devastation of millions of pop and BV caused be real fwar. Fwars that are not lost by HoC, mind you.
Really the more I write this response, the more incredulous I am at yours NSN. HoC has since the beginning of Fwar called it a giant meathammer of a mistake. HoC has never liked Fwar, but we've gotten very good at winning them. We were forced to learn how to win them because, contrary to what your hard wired anti-HoC brain might want to believe, the first Fwars were used AGAINST HoC, not by it. HoC didn't force Fwar destruction upon the game. Really its the anti-hoc crowd the forced it upon HoC. Don't forget that many old school members of HoC QUIT THE GAME over various aspects of Fwar. Aspects that didn't hurt HoC. They hurt you and your friends. Think about that. Old school HoCcers quit the game because they were disgusted YOU (anti hoccers) were getting raped by Randy and Wayward's uber shitty code.
So tell me again that Fwars are somehow an evil mastered by an equally evil HoC.
No, we've been hating them all along. Personally NSN I'd fwar you happily, just because I get easily fired up, and would probably crush whatever faction you are associated with into the ground like so much digital pulp. But that wouldn't change the fact that Fwar is disgustingly damaging, and hurts everyone in the end - winners and losers.
I think some of you don't realize what Fwar is. You cling to it like some kind of security blanket, not realizing that its been dusted with Anthrax and is in the end going to kill you.
I am not going to unilaterally give up Fwar. I'm going to continue to engage and kill factions as necessary. But I would be the first to stand with a community that was willing to give them up. Because as a community measure, I would be willing to do that.
Those of you that aren't willing to give up Fwar, like NSN, well... its your choice in the end. And I'm not the one that has to live with it (well I do, but only as a spectator).
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 3285
Loc: Nottingham, UK
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: Katrar]
#149153 - 01/04/08 06:10 AM (84.64.238.217)
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NSN, please, quit posting long arguments separated by quotes. It makes it very boring to read.
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Haha, you people think admins still look at these forums.
Visit the Platonian! Updated! Stuff! Things! Click!
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DE
Corporal
Reged: 09/11/05
Posts: 88
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: mattbuck]
#149155 - 01/04/08 09:20 AM (24.251.116.116)
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Well Katar, i do like some of the things about fwar, but hate most of the rest.And why through us (HH) and say something. its our 2nd fwar ever that is fake, last one was when they first came out and HH2 needed some time because of, well DD  The thing i like about it is when ppl start a war and the defender starts gaining ground and winning the first empire usually brings in 2 or 3 or more. I know every side does it and i think its pretty much wrong, only time i see it being ok is when the attacker is a uber upgraded dp toy empire which has made life in the lvl 4-7 range pretty much unjoyable. i know i have been smaked down repeatedly cause there is almost no way my stuff will ever stand up to say AoW or SVE or any others that are like those, But the fwar gives a way to stop multiple attackers doing this. Everything else about it i hate. So i will side with you on this katar but only if there is something that can stop most of the bs that has been metioned before. also on a side note. we need to get rid of this 1 city instant surrender. im noticing more and more ppl are surrounding themselves with empires that cant be attacked and its just plain stupid. pretty soon everyone will be like this and no one will be able to war anyone.
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: DE]
#149156 - 01/04/08 10:33 AM (97.97.246.88)
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so i shouldnt core my empires to make it easy for attackers? WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW ill get started on that right now de. its called adapting and the player base was forced to do this due to forced warring due to skill ups. in fact alot of vet players did the same tent city hd only defense. im still amazed people bitch about the hd only defense.bottom line why is everyone doing it if its so bad? 
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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DE
Corporal
Reged: 09/11/05
Posts: 88
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: cbtgod]
#149165 - 01/05/08 08:50 AM (24.251.116.116)
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no i never said coring was wrong. what i said was coring with 1 city instant surrenders is wrong. if the lining of the core can be attacked then i see it as ok since there is an option of HD in or getting someone to help with the wall. so im not actually bitching about anything other than 1 city instant surrenders so read before going all crazy again.
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: DE]
#149174 - 01/05/08 03:46 PM (97.97.246.88)
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well the one city surr rule in my eyes could be a im on vacation thing? we have asked for a vaction mode and been errrrrr ignored. i agree if they want to have on city than they should have to pay the surr costs. if set at 50% and 1 city nothing will happen but im put in protection. i think it should be changed to 1 city empires have to pay a set % of money period. after all it does cost money to declare war?
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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DE
Corporal
Reged: 09/11/05
Posts: 88
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Re: Lets ban FWAR
[Re: cbtgod]
#149177 - 01/05/08 09:26 PM (24.251.116.116)
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that i would go for since then they would actually lose something. even if it worked somewhat like a raid where a % is burned since the ones i have looked at are either 2 types. research or production. if ppl have a chance to lose say tc's or half there factories then it might be some type of warning not to create those types of empires since 1 city surrender was put into place to stop ppl getting raped beyond belief. now i know there is one flaw with it since cant build while in protection and could essentially always be hit and never have time to actually build another city but something could be worked
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