Katrar
Captain
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 925
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
#150689 - 05/23/08 06:54 AM (24.17.223.10)
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Given the continued in our face absenteeism on WWS's part I just don't see any way around this fact.
Perhaps the better idea is not "acquiring" Neveron from Wayward Son, but rather figuring out who would like to develop a replacement, and who can afford to finance it.
Invasion 3042 and a Nev-style game can coexist peacefully. They are different games with different aims. There is always room for a Neveron.
What happens now, I think, is up to us.
I'll say it... and unfortunately this time I mean it:
RIP Neveron.
--------------------
Harbingers of Chaos - Come war with us!
-links-
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 2914
Loc: UK
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Katrar]
#150691 - 05/23/08 10:37 AM (128.243.220.22)
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I'd certainly be willing to help out, though I can't promise any financial commitment.
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Haha, you people think admins still look at these forums.
Visit the Platonian blog!
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Alexander
Newbie
Reged: 05/09/08
Posts: 5
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: mattbuck]
#150696 - 05/23/08 05:53 PM (24.70.95.205)
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Me and another person, me being the funding side, and the other being a coder, are in talks of getting this going. We are wading through liscencing issues and the what not.
More info will be available as it comes out.
That being said, I am nowhere near ready to let neveron go I have realized as I think more of it. I will rather ride this ship to the sea floor or do what I can to help it live. Regardless of the ups and downs, I feel we do have a good community.
Alexander
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 2914
Loc: UK
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Alexander]
#150697 - 05/23/08 06:13 PM (128.243.220.22)
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The fact that I'm still here, even having quit says enough about the fact that I still want the game to succeed.
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Haha, you people think admins still look at these forums.
Visit the Platonian blog!
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ShadowMasterCM
Lieutenant
Reged: 12/07/05
Posts: 532
Loc: New York
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: mattbuck]
#150858 - 06/11/08 01:55 PM (74.74.248.205)
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WWS update
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/4/Number/150854/an/0/page/0#150854
--------------------
Is it true? Do you really suck that bad??
Neveron Promo Code: online gaming rocks
Facebook me!
My Space
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bingo
Corporal
Reged: 06/04/07
Posts: 64
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: ShadowMasterCM]
#150867 - 06/12/08 04:38 AM (59.167.128.103)
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SM,
no offense, but he hasnt done crap for 2 years.
so save us the diatribe.
Yes we feel sorry for his wife and wish her a speedy recovery, but the facts remian, he has been milking the cash for 2 years and has done ZERO for the game.
so save us the pathetic fan boy posts, and let WWS's actions do the talking, because frankly he has a lot of stuff he has to do.
Bingo.
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Antaris
Sergeant
Reged: 11/05/05
Posts: 102
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: bingo]
#150870 - 06/12/08 11:21 AM (85.145.56.5)
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Frankly bingo, I don't know why you are here. I counted (yes sad I know), there are over 200 updates 2 years to this date. WWS didn't do all of them, but I'm sure he put work in. I also have plenty of help tickets replies from WWS in the last 2 years.
No offense, but don't be a jerk and go troll somewhere else
Antaris
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bingo
Corporal
Reged: 06/04/07
Posts: 64
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Antaris]
#150875 - 06/12/08 02:19 PM (149.135.68.253)
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Look, i dont give a crap what you think Antaris, if you dont like my posts put me on ignore, but what your saying is a complete load of crap.
Yes the numbers may say 200 updates, but updates of what? total bulldoohickey.
the updates have been frivilous at best.
Now, im not a serious player in this game, and in the last 18 months i have donated about 1.8k usd, now thats not a lot compared to others i know, but its still my real money and to me thats a significant amount of it.
What have i got for my money? a series of bugs that has pretty much taken my donation points, ruined my empire and left me high and dry. Now yes i have tickets open, the oldest being 9 months, what have i got back since then? NOTHING not even a peep. that includes donations not recieved tickets.
Now before you start on the "donations mean you get nothing" rubbish, comsumer law says otherwise.
So ill say it again actions speak louder than words, and whilst i totally sympathise with WWS in his family issues it still doesnt explain why nothing has been done for such a long time.
Now ill go troll elsewhere when either WWS gives me my money back, or compensates me appropriatley.
What would you do in my situation?
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Fang
Captain
Reged: 10/22/04
Posts: 1067
Loc: North Carolina, USA
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: bingo]
#150879 - 06/12/08 06:06 PM (65.14.229.26)
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take a chill pill?
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One by one, the rabbits are stealing my sanity.....
can you research the Stone rhino design??
sure but mankind will be extinct and the cockroaches will be playing nev and making fun of chet
http://s2.bite-fight.us/c.php?uid=167703
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Antaris
Sergeant
Reged: 11/05/05
Posts: 102
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Fang]
#150880 - 06/12/08 06:52 PM (85.145.56.5)
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^^ what he said.
I'm not sad enough to go through the change logs and pick up on the pieces which would have involved many many hours of coding. Go read them yourself then start crying if what you say is true. I also was amused by the "not a serious player" part going along with the " in the last 18 months i have donated about 1.8k usd". Thats a couple of perfect Rhinos there
I would call my self not a serious player. about 3 years in the game, about 30 - 40 dollars spent maximum.
I've said a few times that people should read the donation agreement but noone reads it so I will post what applies to you to save you time:
"By clicking on any of the donation buttons or by sending Neveron any form of currency you are agreeing to the following terms: "
^^ you've done this
"Neveron is a free game. Free to access and free to play. Your donation does not "purchase" anything but is a method of supporting the further development of and access to Neveron for all players. Donating does not entitle you to special treatment or special access beyond what is described in this agreement.
You will rewarded with Donation Points or another form of in-game benefit depending on the size of your donation as determined by Neveron administrators. Your in-game benefits are not a form of currency and have no value outside the game. They are also inherently ephemeral and intangible. No guarantees are made as to the longevity or performance of any of the donation benefits. Nearly all donation benefits are affected by the actions of yourself or others and can be lost or destroyed through normal gameplay. Neveron does not offer 'refunds' of donations once made under any circumstances save at the discretion of the game administrators. "
note no refunds and also the no guarantees of donation benefits. If you have received DP for your money then you can't do anything. The only thing you can do is request DP for money that hasn't been processed.
have a nice day
EDIT:
and as for your question, I wouldn't spend money on a free game
Edited by Antaris (06/12/08 06:55 PM)
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bingo
Corporal
Reged: 06/04/07
Posts: 64
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Antaris]
#150882 - 06/12/08 07:43 PM (149.135.68.253)
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you say you wouildnt donate, but you have donated? im confused.
But seriously, cutting out all the BS.
in my situation, where i have had DP not awarded, Bugs take away DP and have an empire decimated because of it, what would you do?
seriously as a serious question, "what would you do in my situation?"
Its pretty obvious your not putting yourself in my shoes.
The donation agreement is actually a load of rubbish, anyone with half a brain knows that stuff is in clear voilation of basic consumer law.
All i want is some answers and some service for a change, the fact his poor Wife is hurting, that sucks, and i share his feelings, but where has he been for the other 9 months? Answer that question?
Im going to push for a refund as i never really got the services for my money.
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Antaris
Sergeant
Reged: 11/05/05
Posts: 102
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: bingo]
#150884 - 06/12/08 08:05 PM (85.145.56.5)
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lolz, I think thats all I can say here. I'm afraid consumer law does not apply here. again lolz.
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Katrar
Captain
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 925
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: bingo]
#150886 - 06/12/08 08:12 PM (24.17.223.10)
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God knows I've gotten into my share of fights with Bingo on here. I don't think there's any love lost between us. But on this issue I have to side with him.
All due sympathies to Wayward's wife. We're all glad she has pulled through and seems to be (hopfully) on the mend.
That said... there is still this unresolved fact that he has chosen not to communcicate -AT ALL- anything about any of this, with the game community.
If ShadowMasterCM had not posted his contact, or managed to contact Wayward at all, we'd still be in the dark.
It has been said many times before: simple communication is the first step to healing.
Wayward Son needs to do a much better job. And that response to SM does not cut it, because that was a private communication that arguably many players that don't read the forums still are in the dark about.
Some may call me a heartless bastard but I just don't feel that taking care of a loved one should be a reasonable excuse for total lack of contact with the outside world.
Even monthly contact with his game would be more than we've seen.
--------------------
Harbingers of Chaos - Come war with us!
-links-
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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bingo
Corporal
Reged: 06/04/07
Posts: 64
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Antaris]
#150887 - 06/12/08 09:51 PM (149.135.68.253)
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Quote:
lolz, I think thats all I can say here. I'm afraid consumer law does not apply here. again lolz.
Im afarid thats exactly the kind of attitude that everyone talks about, and why this community has its issues, your an ignorant twit who obviosuly cannot see the underlying issue.
Consumer law applies everywhere, as a US citizen, of a US company which is based and operating in the USA, of course the law applies, your pretty simple if you think it doesnt.
Just because someone puts up a blurb or disclaimer doesnt mean anything, the law isnt decided by a meaningless piece of drivel, its drawn on precedence and common law, which is most certainly applicable to Neveron.
Now dont get me wrong, i want this game to survive, and i really enjoyed playing it, but when real hard money is taken away, and nothign given in return, and no service to speak of, then sometimes i have to do what i have to do. i wonder what a fraud claim would do to neveron?
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Antaris
Sergeant
Reged: 11/05/05
Posts: 102
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: bingo]
#150888 - 06/12/08 10:45 PM (85.145.56.5)
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Its only under consumer law if you are actually paying for tangible goods. Which you're not, Donation benifits "are not a form of currency and have no value outside the game. They are also inherently ephemeral and intangible". And also "Donations mean you get nothing" is very true, though you refuse to admit it. Only if you can prove that the money was being used for purposes other then nev can you do anything about it.
I understand how people can be annoyed I too would have liked to have WWS around to fix things too, however I'm guessing I having a , how do I put it, less negative, more understanding approach. BTW bingo, I'm short 400$ I bought a guitar (back ordered) last year. I didn't get it and email contact broke off. So I emailed once a month asking what had happened
this is 8 months after the order, 4 months without email contact
"The situation is that 2 people in our corporation have stolen all the money from us and left the country to the dominican republic. We are currently in court battles over this right now. We are working on getting everyone paid back its just taking some time."
a year now, and possible 100$ coming soon. and guess what, I didn't throw a hissy fit saying that I don't care what his problem was.
So I know what its like to get nothing for your money, but I'm guessing I'm more reasonable in allowing for other peoples misfortunes
Katar:
I'm not going to try and imagine what its like to have a loved one (especially a wife, mainly cause I don't have one) on the verge of dying. On top of that having to look after at 8 month old kid. Probably a nightmare, so heartless bastard almost cuts it, but thats my opinion(no offence intended). In that situation I thinks its fair that he he didn't contact the people who demand he does stuff for us(me included)
EDIT:
Underlying issue I'm seeing here is you care more about money/game then WWS's personal hardships.
Edited by Antaris (06/12/08 10:51 PM)
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bingo
Corporal
Reged: 06/04/07
Posts: 64
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Antaris]
#150890 - 06/13/08 01:00 AM (59.167.128.103)
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Well i do care about his personal hardship, and even if that ccount for a few months it really sucks and i feel for him, but what about the other 7-8 months whats he been doing then? nothing, TAKING OUR MONEY.
again your reading the neveron DP notice which has ZERO legal credibility.
there is certainly no getting through to you so ill certainly give up, i guess thats why what they say about you is true.
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Antaris
Sergeant
Reged: 11/05/05
Posts: 102
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: bingo]
#150892 - 06/13/08 05:07 AM (85.145.56.5)
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You're a funny guy. They're not taking your money, you're giving it so remember that. Yes, its a good thing you're going to give up, your lack of knowledge and understanding in this area is giving me a headache.
As for that last little bit, if I've made enough of an impression in the 10 - 14 days I've been active I'm pleased with that, but I doubt anyone really talks about me.
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andrewne
Newbie
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 7
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Antaris]
#150894 - 06/13/08 06:42 AM (65.1.47.176)
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Hey Bingo, if you ever focus enough anger to file a lawsuit post regular updates. I don't think you'll have a snowball's chance in hell (if you can even find a lawyer to take it), but it will be neat to see how far it actually goes and will give the nev community lessons in the legal system.
I think I'm going back to another 2 years of forum hibernation.
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Arkidda
Lieutenant
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 443
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: andrewne]
#150896 - 06/13/08 07:13 AM (72.254.196.30)
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So Antaris.
What your saying is that even though it is classified as a "Donation" with this disclaimer (Which I copied from your post above) "You will rewarded with Donation Points or another form of in-game benefit depending on the size of your donation as determined by Neveron administrators." That is perfectly okay for the Neveron Admin NOT to give out the DP that the player is expecting to get? Just because it a Donation? Interesting.
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Killing means you never have to say your sorry.
"We have a long road ahead of us." - "Let's litter it with bodies."
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Katrar
Captain
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 925
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Arkidda]
#150899 - 06/13/08 12:33 PM (24.17.223.10)
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Antaris is a WWS/Nev fanboi. It's obvious at this point that arguing with him or countering his myopic points is futile.
Hopefully WWS's home situation will improve. Hopefully Nev will eventually get more attention. Hopefully this isn't simply a continuing trend. The end.
--------------------
Harbingers of Chaos - Come war with us!
-links-
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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Antaris
Sergeant
Reged: 11/05/05
Posts: 102
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Katrar]
#150901 - 06/13/08 03:20 PM (85.145.56.5)
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Quote:
What your saying is that even though it is classified as a "Donation" with this disclaimer (Which I copied from your post above) "You will rewarded with Donation Points or another form of in-game benefit depending on the size of your donation as determined by Neveron administrators." That is perfectly okay for the Neveron Admin NOT to give out the DP that the player is expecting to get? Just because it a Donation? Interesting.
I did say that bingo could get claims for donations that hadn't been processed, but other then that he couldn't do anything.
Quote:
Antaris is a WWS/Nev fanboi. It's obvious at this point that arguing with him or countering his myopic points is futile.
no, I mearly seem to have more of a grip on reality and how things actually work in RL then most people here.
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ShadowMasterCM
Lieutenant
Reged: 12/07/05
Posts: 532
Loc: New York
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Antaris]
#150914 - 06/16/08 09:11 PM (74.74.248.205)
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Bingo: Your personal opinion of what he has or has not done, and what quality it has been, is just that, your opinion. You have 2 options there. Play Neveron the way the Admins run it, or dont. Personally I hope you chose the second option.
As for supporting the game, with your $1800 in donations, knowing that the Admins are simply 'milking the cash', shows me the lack of intelligence you are working with. The average player has not spent $500, let alone 1k+. You claim to have donated that much during the last 18 months, and also state that the game has sucked for the 6 moths prior to that. Again, your logic here is flawed. Why would you donate $1800 to support a game that you thinks sucks?
As for the "Donation Agreement"...lets see. You are supposed to read it, and agree to it, in order to send any doantion to SUPPORT Neveron's existance and development. You are required to check a box stating that you did read it, and agree to its terms. So you have zero legal stand point to go after Neveron for a 'refund' of your donations. To clarify, the Agreement clearly states that no refunds will be issued due to loss of DP items in game. So again, you have zero case. So stop thinking you have bought something and have some Consumer rights. No one asked you to send in your donation, you eleceted to do it to support the game as the admins see fit to run it. PERIOD!
Now as for donations sent that were never issued the DP, on THAT basis only, you could start some claim process that would involve getting a refund, if you were to claim that said donation did not get the DP as agreed. However, if you falsify your claim, Neveron could provide logs showing when and where your DP was in fact given to the proper logins. Then YOU could actually be held accountable, and possibly charged with some sort of violation, based of course on local laws and jurisdiction. So before you go spouting off catch phrases about laws you dont understand, you might want to think things thru a lil better.
As I have stated in chat and in several vaarious posts, if you sent a donation directly to Neveron via PayPal, you will have to simply wait for WWS to return to Neveron. PayPal donations require a manual process from the admin to first get the funds from the Nev PP account, then apply them to your logins as directed in the PP transfer. Unless you use a credit card, donations are not INSTANT. Any open help ticket about this would also sit there unanswered, since this also requires an interaction with WWS.
As for WWS 'hasnt done crap for 2 years', well again thats your opinion. The Mail system was revamped. The Player Admin system was developed and implemented. The Noob Faction Mail system was implemented. The discusions about nerfing towers and IDF in general are ongoing. FWar was removed from the game. The terrain system was reworked after months of discussion. Those are just the things I camne up with from memory. Im sure if I went back thru the updates, I could find more things. Every one of those items took time and effort. Whether or not we personally agree that those should have been fixed over some other matter is merely another opinion.
All of this while the donations continued to drop and WWS had to go get a 'real' job [since the cows milk was running pretty thin]. Then somewhere along the way he made a baby. He also had an aunt severly injured, and a wife hospitalized. WWS is not contracted to stay chained to his desk awaiting your next command. He runs this game on his own, and does it as RL time allows. Again, if you are unhappy with those terms, then stop donating, and stop playing, and please stop posting your drival here.
As for your 'situation' with your empire. First of all, learn to play with out needing DP to survive. There are many players who do very well and have NEVER donated and in some cases have never used DP units or other such perks. As for your 'bugs take away DP', then do what every one is supposed to do, submit a ticket. But also remember when you do this, that not every loss will be compensated or replaced. The focus of the admin(s) and thier policy on bugs has always been to deal with game wide issues rather than the random bug that wipes out a unit or two. Yeah it sucks if its your unit, but again, thats the terms of playing Neveron. If you dont like it, then quit!
I do however agree with the point that WWS needs to improve his communication with the playerbase. Im NOT saying he has to be 100% accountable to us. I am saying that a simple weekly update is needed to let us know that he is alive and remove any doubts about did he quit etc. Even if that update simply says "Just working thru tickets" or 'continuing to work code for towers'. Just need something. Weekly at the least. Regardless of RL issues, a simple update could be posted weekly. The alternative would be an assistant admin that could stay in touch with him outside of Neveron, and that person could post the updates each week.
So feel free to talk trash about me, call me names etc, but in the long run I still have fun with Neveron and you are slowly killing yourself with undue stress. 
--------------------
Is it true? Do you really suck that bad??
Neveron Promo Code: online gaming rocks
Facebook me!
My Space
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Tien_Lung
Lieutenant
Reged: 06/27/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: bingo]
#150924 - 06/17/08 09:52 PM (75.152.199.116)
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Quote:
SM,
no offense, but he hasnt done crap for 2 years.
so save us the diatribe.
Yes we feel sorry for his wife and wish her a speedy recovery, but the facts remian, he has been milking the cash for 2 years and has done ZERO for the game.
so save us the pathetic fan boy posts, and let WWS's actions do the talking, because frankly he has a lot of stuff he has to do.
Bingo.
The last decent thing they did for the game was the great lag reduction of 2002. Still I keep hoping...
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Fortune favours the bold.
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Tien_Lung
Lieutenant
Reged: 06/27/02
Posts: 506
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Tien_Lung]
#150925 - 06/17/08 09:54 PM (75.152.199.116)
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For that matter I've seen about 5 generations of people say the exact same kind of fan-boy things, only to see nothing positive happen for years on end, and eventually realize the truth. Don't think you're the first to have faith in the admins and have them fail to follow through.
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Fortune favours the bold.
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Katrar
Captain
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 925
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Tien_Lung]
#150926 - 06/17/08 11:26 PM (24.17.223.10)
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Honestly I don't see SM as a fanboi. He has hope. I don't, and I think you don't, but having hope and being a fanboi are two different things. SM has on many occasions been critical of Neveron and Wayward Son.
As well, it can't be easy being a non-empowered admin on a broken game, and a mod on a forum that hasn't seen a reason for positive discussion in many moons.
So... fanbois suck, and Neveron fanbois doubly so, but lets not lump SM into that category.
--------------------
Harbingers of Chaos - Come war with us!
-links-
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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TheKiller
Newbie
Reged: 06/21/08
Posts: 20
Loc: United States
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: Katrar]
#151080 - 06/26/08 02:45 PM (68.153.113.1)
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I have been playing Neveron since 2002. I have had no complaints about Neveron or the Admins. Because i dont look for them. I play Neveron just to play it; I make friends, enemies, and overall just have fun. Its a free game so I dont worry about putting out money. We really dont know what Wayward has been through the past years or is going through, so we cant jump to conclusions or judge him. And let me remind certain people, if you have forgot, it is JUST A GAME, and their are more important things in life.
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FFA MASTER
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Arkidda
Lieutenant
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 443
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Re: Neveron... no future... dead game... where to now?
[Re: TheKiller]
#151680 - 08/10/08 12:57 PM (65.69.141.36)
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Quote:
and their are more important things in life.
There are?
What are they?
--------------------
Killing means you never have to say your sorry.
"We have a long road ahead of us." - "Let's litter it with bodies."
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