Sniper

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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/01/08 09:41 AM
68.26.156.30

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CBills 6,173,909

Type: Sniper
Technology base: Inner Sphere L3
Configuration: Bipedal
Tonnage: 35 tons

Equipment Mass
Internal Structure Endo Steel 1.75t
Engine 245 XL 6t
Walking mp 7
Running mp 11
Jumping mp 0
Heat Sinks 10 standard 3t
Gyro XL 1.5t
Cockpit 3t
Armor 116 8.5t

Internal Armor Ferro Fibrous
Structure Value
Head 3 9
Center Torso 11/16
Center Torso (rear) -/5
R/L Torso 8/12
R/L Torso (rear) -/3
R/L Arm 6/12
R/L Leg 8/16


Weapons and ammo Location Critical Tonnage
Light Gauss Rifle LA 5 12t
LGR ammo (20) RT 2 1.25t
3 Med Lasers RT 3 3t

This mech was designed for two mission profiles. One is to maneuver behind enemy mechs and fire into there rear armor from range so return fire in unlikely. The other is operating behind enemy lines taking out key targets.

The only variant that was built replaced the medium lasers with a targeting computer. It increased the chance of a hit to the rear torso armor of mechs. But at the cost of some badly needed secondary weapons.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Dester
08/01/08 01:16 PM
216.57.96.1

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To expensive and lack of jump jets will hurt its performance. The LGR isn't enough damage to really warrent the expensive of the design. XL engine makes it more vulurable to damage also.

dester
Lafeel
08/01/08 01:21 PM
157.157.83.10

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To be fair the LGR is probably the single longest ranged (short of a real artillery piece) weapon in the game, but apart from that I agree, totally.

Personally I'd slow the mech down to try to mount a real gauss rifle, and, preferably a standard engine. After all standard engines are far more durable than XL ones can be.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/01/08 06:54 PM
68.26.156.30

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The idea of the LGR and the speed is not to be where one can return fire. Thats why I was willing to use FF armor
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Lafeel
08/01/08 07:10 PM
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And what are you going to do if you run into say a Blitzkrieg (or a Legionaire) that's fast enough to make it impossible for you to out run it, while packing a big enough a gun to tear you apart.

119kmh isn't the defense it was any more now you have two fast fifty tonners packing two of the nastiest autocannon in the game (ultra-20 and rotary-5 with targeting computer, respectively) that are just as fast.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/01/08 07:38 PM
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And what is the likelihood that the two will happen to meet? Not very high.

The ultra 20 is not much of a worry. Its ammo will be gone fast enough. You just need to hope that your not hit until its all used up. With two mechs going at 119kmh the likely hood of it doing just that ant that high. The two mechs would have to be with in 90 meters of each other. A mech that has a LGR would never be willing to get that close. There is no need to do so. I know nothing of rotary ACs so I could not comment on it. But if it uses ammo like a ultra its ammo will be gone quickly also. My mech with 20 shots has some stying power.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Lafeel
08/01/08 07:48 PM
157.157.83.10

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Uses rounds a lot faster than a ultra (can fire up to six times in a turn), but is also far more accurate due to having a targeting computer in there to help it aim.

Actually the chances of one of your snipers running into a Blitzkrieg would be pretty high, as they were very popular with the loyalists (Katherine's faction) in the Fed Com Civil war, and I somehow doubt you're anything other than a Victor loyalist.

But my point still remains that your lack of actual hitting power is almost certain to come back to haunt you, as a lgr is not even remotely hard hitting.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/01/08 07:59 PM
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So a AC5 has 20 rounds a ton at 6 rounds a turn the ammo will be gone after the 4th turn. Just keep running untill its ammo is gone.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Lafeel
08/01/08 08:05 PM
157.157.83.10

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Quote:

So a AC5 has 20 rounds a ton at 6 rounds a turn the ammo will be gone after the 4th turn. Just keep running untill its ammo is gone.



Who said I was going to give you sextuble bursts untill I got the right shot? I can still shoot it like a normal ac5, or doubles, or quad bursts.

Plus, I have 60 shots, not 20:P
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/01/08 08:08 PM
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And how much does this modest mech cost?

I think a lot more than my 6mil mech
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Lafeel
08/01/08 08:12 PM
157.157.83.10

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Quote:

And how much does this modest mech cost?

I think a lot more than my 6mil mech



No argument there. A 350xl engine+endo steel+double heatsinks (why on earth anyone would think that a mech this heat efficient needs those is beyond me..)+the rotary ac+ the fancy, smancy, fed com targeting computer does not=a cheap 'mech

Still your mech isn't exactly cheap either for a 35 tonner.

edit: slightly off topic..the Sun Cobra is just daft..Who in heavens name uses double heat sinks when your only weapons are two gauss rifles? That's just money out the window..

Edited by Lafeel (08/01/08 08:16 PM)
Shadrak
08/28/13 01:51 PM
174.225.64.46

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Nice looking mech...I would boost its weight up to 40-45, drop cruising mp to 6, give it an ECM, Jumpjets (4 MP), and a targeting computer. It has no heat generation from primary weapon system, so I think keeping the secondary energy weapons are good, but if there is enough weight available, swapping the medium lasers for an ER LL would be a good idea IMO.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/28/13 11:04 PM
206.29.182.143

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If I did that then it would not out distance more powerful mechs.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Shadrak
08/29/13 03:49 PM
174.241.128.32

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That is correct--but if you are intending the 'Mech be an analog for its name, remember that snipers are not intended to be fast, they are intended to be stealthy and deadly. A sniper 'Mech functioning in a role analogous to an actual sniper wouldn't need to be fast, but would need to be able to penetrate deep behind enemy lines and target C2 or high-value targets for elimination and successfully extract itself from the battlefield. The benefit of the sniper attacking from afar is not stand-off...it is stealth and the ability to relocate before the sniper has been identified. The sniper is not intended to go toe-to-toe in a fight and if the sniper has to run--that's a sniper that is going to die.
Karagin
08/29/13 04:20 PM
72.178.85.122

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That is also true but a sniper can be fast to avoid getting found or hit and hitting from range also means that it is harder for the enemy to hit back.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/30/13 06:23 AM
172.56.7.212

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Also if you want to maneuver into a mechs rear ark at distance you need all the speed that you can get and jump jets cant do that. If I was going to do anything I would increase its speed with a MASC.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Shadrak
08/30/13 07:09 PM
174.241.225.155

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I see...so it is primarily intended to sprint to a rear arc and hit before the other mech can return fire with rear mounted weapons (generally max range 12 hex)...why not armor it make it 8/12/8, and give it a big gun wi
Shadrak
08/30/13 07:11 PM
174.241.225.155

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Th a max range of 15, 18, or 21...a rotary ac 5 or a thunderbolt 20
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/31/13 11:51 AM
208.54.32.207

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Most of the time you dont find only one mech at a time you have to deal with an entire lance.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
ghostrider
08/31/13 12:30 PM
66.74.188.151

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The last statement kinda counter acts the purpose of the mech.

If its part of a lance, then you are probably going up against another lance or other multiple units. The lack of an energy weapon makes extended raiding unlikely, since the chace of finding ammo to reload would be low, unless the enemy actually uses it themselves.
It would also put more pressure on the rest of the lance since the mech would avoid contact for a short while to manuever.

It does have merit though. If the enemy doesnt know what or where it is, you could get a shot or two on them before they can react. A fast in and out raider would work as well. It is considered a light mech, so for the class it would very likely outrange any other light mechs.
CrayModerator
08/31/13 01:48 PM
71.47.122.85

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Quote:
The lack of an energy weapon makes extended raiding unlikely,



I thought it had 3 lasers. Not long-ranged, hard-hitting lasers, but it definitely has energy weapons.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
ghostrider
08/31/13 02:45 PM
66.74.188.151

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Yes, there is. I was thinking a longer ranged energy weapon. PPC or large laser was in mind. My mistake.

I do agree with the others about having some jump jets on the mech. Would make raiding alot easier, since some terrain would be hard, if not impossible to get thru without them. It would help getting behind a well placed mech as well.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
09/01/13 09:28 PM
208.54.32.181

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Quote:
The last statement kinda counter acts the purpose of the mech.



I meant it to act alone, but other friendly mechs could be in the area that the Sniper could use to its advantage. I meant enemy mechs would be in a lance.

The Sniper is not for raiding "taking stuff" its for going in taking out a designated target and escaping before any real response can react to its presence. Unless the target is a mech it should take quite a few minuets before anything could respond which gives the Sniper a good head start. Its limited ammo supply should not be an issue. It can be affective with out firing a shot. Just being seen behind the enemies lines can force the enemy to pull front line units off the front for guard duty.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
ghostrider
09/01/13 09:50 PM
66.74.188.151

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That would be true for a simple Stinger mech as well for just an appearance.

It looks like a simple hit and run mech, not really a raider.
I could also say about being found before it can strike, but thats with any mech out there.

Now with the info you gave, the mech is actually 40 tons.

Unless they changed it, gyros only come in full ton allotments, such as 1, 2, 3, or 4 tons. No half tons allowed.

Dont have the books availible at this time, but dont think 8.5 tons of armor will fit on a 35 ton mech. That sounds more like a 55 ton mech.

I am assuming the 1.25 tons of ammo is a typo, since last i knew, ammo was .5 ton increments.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
09/02/13 06:38 AM
208.54.39.134

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You need something of a real threat and a Stinger does not have much in the way of weaponry. A couple of hover craft could keep it under control.

Thanks for saying that there are problems with the accounting I found that there are some errors that I have found.

No weight is taken up by the heat sinks the 3 tons is typo error.
The weight that the armor shows is wrong it should be 6.5 tons but the amount of armor on the mech is correct. Since the 8.5 tons of armor was counted towards the mechs weight the mech is two tons under weight.

The XL gyro comes in half tons or it value would be defeated.

I use fractal accounting on some of my mechs and a very large number of my vehicles. The last that I knew fractal accounting was a legal optional rule.

Now to think of something for the two tons.
I could drop a medium laser and add a targeting computer.
I could replace the standard heat sinks with double heat sinks and add two more medium lasers.
I could add four jump jets.
I could add two more tons of ammo for the LGR.
I could add MASC.

I like the two choices of changing to double heat sinks and adding the two medium lasers, or adding MASC.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
ghostrider
09/02/13 09:51 PM
66.74.188.151

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I havent seen an xl gyro. Wasnt sure if it was a newer thing or not. Last updates I got was just after the clan invasion.

Though it increases the price, the double heatsinks with the extra lasers make it even nastier mech. The jets would make it even more versatile for getting behind another mech. You could be short range and jump behind alot of mechs with enough for a jump of 7.

Only ammo that i know of, which may be out of date, that can be less then .5 tons is machine gun ammo at .25.

I know nothing of fractal accounting in designing anything with batteltech. This mech looks alot like an upgraded wolfhound for uses.
Shadrak
09/02/13 10:46 PM
98.227.214.21

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Fractional accounting would be level 3 rules. It is not tournament legal, but a lot of the designs here are not tournament legal.

I don't understand your argument that this mech is both a mech that is supposed to essentially headhunt/assassinate/snipe (the way you described it initially, it is more of an assassin/headhunter than just a sniper), but that it is also going to have to face multiple mechs...

When I say slow it down you say "it needs to be able to run away"
When I say give it a big gun that can kill the other mech in one shot just outside of rear arc weapons range, you say "Most of the time you dont find only one mech at a time you have to deal with an entire lance."\

That being said, I think it is a good mech for the general "sniping" role described in the basic rule sets (like the Clint), but I think it needs jump jets to take advantage of terrain like woods or elevated areas.


Personally. I don't see the value of a "sniper" mech. There are many alternative tactics that are cheaper and more effective--not to mention that taking out a single mech as a "sniper" is unlikely to end the fight (a real sniper takes out a commander, comm system, high value target--a mech that snipes will put another mech out of commission between battles and is so specialized it would probably only be used at a strategic level--in which case a single mech is unlikely to make a difference)

Here are some alternative strategies I prefer:
1. A couple of target designating VTOLs/Hovercraft and some Arrow systems for fast attacks and disengagements
2. PA(L)/Infantry/Battle Armor infiltration and target designation with TAG supported by Arrow
3. A lance of mechs with 3 ranged, speedy mechs (40-50 tons, 6/9/6 or 5/8/5) and a speedy, armored close mech (7/11/7 or 8/12/8) with a C3 or C3i system.
4. A heavy mech with Angel ECM/Null Signature System/other camo system and an intense close/medium-range weapon system.
ghostrider
09/03/13 03:25 PM
66.74.188.151

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If I remember right, the light guass only does 8 points of damage. Now for the assassin/headhunter job this might work for light mechs, but not alot of the larger mechs.

Now if it had support like some arrow IV systems ready for a tag signal, it would be better for assassin.
The mech is good, just not as good in the roles it was set for as other mechs.
Shadrak
09/04/13 01:14 PM
174.241.129.97

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Exactly
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