KitK
05/05/09 07:57 PM
216.197.183.253
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I am working on a short-range clan omni varient. I was thinking LBX-20. But the way I had allocated the FF and ES didn't permit it, and I really didn't want to change it. So, I got looking at 3 SSRM-6 instead. What do you think? Is it a good move or a bad move?
The advantages I see are:
--It saves weight
--It saves space
--3 chances to hit something
--Greater max damage
--More ammo efficient
The disadvatages I see are:
--The heat doubles
--Lose -1 modifier
--Less maximum hit locations
--Lose the aura and awe of the "Big Gun"
--Can't switch from scatter hits to single massive damage hit
The Neutrals I see are:
--Range is the same
--Ammo amounts are equal for what I had planned
I am not sure which is better on odds in the long run.
KitK
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KamikazeJohnson
05/05/09 08:07 PM
142.161.185.27
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Don't forget that the heat only doubles if you hit...there's no heat spike from missed shots, which is especially good when you have high to-hit numbers. Consider that the "20" column on the missile hit table averages only 12 hits, while a SSRM 6 averages 6 hits. Always. So as long as the third missile rack counters the -1 to-hit modifier, you'll average twice the damage for only slightly more heat. Pair that with maybe a LPL for concentrated punch and I doubt you'll miss the BFG effect.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Zandel_Corrin
05/05/09 11:18 PM
123.2.140.247
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What size mech are we talking here kit?
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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KitK
05/06/09 12:13 AM
216.197.183.253
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pretty big. 65 tons 5/8/5, 24 tons of pod space.
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Zandel_Corrin
05/06/09 12:39 AM
123.2.140.247
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Other weapon thoughts? How many DHS before pod space?
And most important... what clan?
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Lefric
05/06/09 12:14 PM
216.120.184.66
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As much as I like LBX, the streak six is one of the god weapons in the game, IMO. The fact that you lose 1) the BFG, and 2) the -1 to hit are more than made up by the 1) No heat or ammo unless you hit, 2) 3 chances to hit, and 3) when you hit, each individual streak 6 does the same amount of damage as an indivdual LBX-20 averages...
You are right, though - it is a tough call. I can see myself going both ways, depending on the mission. If I know the opposistion is fielding heavier mechs, there is more to be said for the BFG than if you're facing a force of lighter units, in which case I want the SRM's to score crits. Secondary weapons are also a consideration. But in general, 3 S6S over 1 LBX-20, yeah.
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm." -George Orwell
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KitK
05/06/09 05:50 PM
198.169.14.167
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I didn't have a particular faction in mind. I call it the Saber Lynx, if perhaps the name leans toward a particular clan's totum.
I made sure to use my engine space so it has 13 DHS for 26 heat.
I was trying to keep the weapons at ranges 12 or less. Any thing long-range would be a tolken gun. I made the Prime varient for long-range (3ERL 1 LB5X). A bunch of medium pulse lasers fits the bill, but is kind of bland and predictable. I suppose I could go small and reall force the pilot to close the distance. I think I should throw and AMS on too and maybe and ECM and probe.
KK
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KamikazeJohnson
05/06/09 08:59 PM
142.161.185.27
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If anyone doubts the effectiveness of SSRMs, just checkout my old Design Challenge threads...the JMInc 1st Invitational I believe...easily the most devastating design was a 45-tonner carrying 2 SSRM6s and 2 SSRM2s. Trampled everything it faced in a fair fight.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Zandel_Corrin
05/06/09 11:09 PM
123.2.140.247
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WHy oh why did you use 3 ERL?
3 ERL = 36 heat for 12 tons and 30 damage....
2 ER PPC = same tons, same damage and only 30 heat.....
Pros for ERL = 3 hit locations..... ability to do only 20 damage for 24 heat if required.... nothing else.
Pros for ERPPC = I hit kills.... more damage to single locations and less heat
ok..... i've had my rant now...... back to the design...
For close combat..... small pulse lasers for infantry... ECM and PROBE also good options.... SSRMs for sure and i'd go UAC 10 for a main gun with big hits....
Should have no heat trouble with that and the option to do massive amounts of damage is there.... A TargComp would also be good for the UAC (and pulses... if you must...) so you can jump and shoot with good odds all the time.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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KitK
05/07/09 12:52 AM
216.197.183.253
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Well, yeah, that is a good question and a good point. I'd say 1 reason is that the Hellbringer Prime already does that. Reason 2 is for the extreme range, even though 2 hexes is really not a big deal. Reason 3 is that I was a bit bored with LRMs and PPCs. The ERL at least has a drawback to compensate for with the 1:1.2 heat ratio. Reason 4, variant B is doing that with small and medium pulse lasers and Tcomp - being this thing has so much free weight!
I am definately leaning toward the SSRM6s. The UAC isn't a bad suggestion. I'll have to look into it.
KK
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Zandel_Corrin
05/07/09 02:24 AM
123.2.140.247
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My rant about the ERLL comes from the Nova Cat Prime..... WHY mount 3 ERLL and 2 ERPPC for a total of 66 heat when you could do the same damage for 60?
I never got most clan designs.... they never have enough HS for the weapons they carry.... I have re-fits for many of them that improve performance by up to 50% with little to no lack of protection or firepower.
Still..... SSRMS and UAC is good combo.... need something energy or a lot of ammo tho.... but with a targ comp for the UAC and SSRMs then not a shot of precious ammo is wasted....
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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KitK
05/15/09 04:26 PM
198.169.16.115
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I hadn't done much for critical finding mechs. I prefer the big guns to destroy rather than hoping for armor blow-throughs
and multiple head hits. So, that is the intent with the Prime. I think I lost my vision for the mech with the 3 ER Large
Lasers. Thus, I'd change that to 2 ER Large and 2 LBX5 with shot ammo. This mech is for attrition and should not get closer to opponents than just inside short range.
I've been mulling over 'A' too, and needed to give up the idea of a weapon to punch through the armor. I also really want
to keep it role specific (striker/crit-finder) with a max range of 12 hexes.
Here is what I think I'll do for the 'A':
4-SSRM6 and 4-ER Small Lasers. 2-AMS (1 rear facing), Active Probe, and ECM.
Of course neither of these are good for strict Zellbriggen duals, so the 'C' will have to be more of the mainstream monster with PPCs, Med. Pulse Lasers, Small Pulse Lasers and an abusive targeting computer.
B & D will have to remain a mystery for a while. One will likely have to be missile support.
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Flameblade
05/27/09 08:37 PM
98.67.103.39
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Just a quick note that SRM's are particulary vulnerable to AMS. The entire flight of missles can be shot down. If chain fire rules apply and multiple AMS are present then the SSRM's are in deep trouble.
The LB cannons do not suffer this drawback. And have the advantage of -1 or 10 point sinle location damage.
Not claiming either is better just stating some facts.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
05/27/09 10:54 PM
24.5.141.133
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I don't know about current rules but in the rules that i am familiar with, you fire a SRM2 first you use up the AMS shot and follow that up with the SRM6.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Flameblade
05/27/09 11:37 PM
98.67.103.39
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Chain fire is on pg 79 of Max Tech. It is a level 3 rule. Basically 3 AMS 1st AMS engages 1st in-bound missle flight. 2nd AMS engages 2nd in bound flight. And so on. I do not know about new rules but I believe that the "chain rule" is the norm and they provide just a -4 to the roll of # of missles hit roll. Not sure the effect against streak.
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KitK
05/28/09 01:00 AM
216.197.183.253
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The ammo efficiency of the new rules (See Thread) could result in more multi-AMS load outs on Mechs. Otherwise (old rules), the occurrence of muliple AMS seems rare unless something was specifically designed to shoot down loads of missiles. Plus, with the new rules it looks like 4 of 6 streaks will still get through. So, either way I am not worried. If the mech has a weakness, then I am happy to know I may have avoided creating an ubermech.
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Prince_of_Darkness
05/28/09 01:34 AM
71.214.3.38
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Quote:
The ammo efficiency of the new rules (See Thread) could result in more multi-AMS load outs on Mechs. Otherwise (old rules), the occurrence of muliple AMS seems rare unless something was specifically designed to shoot down loads of missiles. Plus, with the new rules it looks like 4 of 6 streaks will still get through. So, either way I am not worried. If the mech has a weakness, then I am happy to know I may have avoided creating an ubermech.
If I remember correctly, the new Word Puma tank had a variant with 7 (!) separate AMS systems.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
05/28/09 09:23 AM
24.5.141.133
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Quote:
Quote:
The ammo efficiency of the new rules (See Thread) could result in more multi-AMS load outs on Mechs. Otherwise (old rules), the occurrence of muliple AMS seems rare unless something was specifically designed to shoot down loads of missiles. Plus, with the new rules it looks like 4 of 6 streaks will still get through. So, either way I am not worried. If the mech has a weakness, then I am happy to know I may have avoided creating an ubermech.
If I remember correctly, the new Word Puma tank had a variant with 7 (!) separate AMS systems.
Well that would do a good job in my Archer variant that has 6 MRM10s
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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