Newtype
02/21/09 03:23 PM
207.160.205.13
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The idea of spring armor is that a unit/structure will bounce off a unit/structure equipped with spring armor instead of doing damage to that unit/structure. Spring armor only provides 10 armor points per ton because part of that armor is made up of springs. Any unit/structure that is attacked by an object trying to do physical damage (such as falling, ramming, charging, punching, thrashing, kicking, hatchet, sword, mace, etc.) to that unit/structure and has spring armor as the outermost armor in location being attacked totally negates all physical damage of that attack (reduce physical damage to 0 in that location that has spring armor). Spring armor doesn't have much cohesion due to the springs not connected to each other and so apply a +1 modifier to all Determining Critical Hits Table rolls. Spring armor can be any metallic armor, i.e., standard, ferro-fibrous, reactive, reflective, hardened, etc. When figuring the BV for spring armor, consider that armor to be the armor mentioned above (either standard, ferro-fibrous, hardened, etc.) and take the total Defensive BV of spring armor points and multiply them by 0.9.
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Toscotto
02/21/09 05:28 PM
67.212.96.108
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go go gaget go-bot.
>.<
are you serious? there was a simpsons episode like this.
The question is not how far, the question is do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as needed?
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Prince_of_Darkness
02/21/09 06:12 PM
205.202.120.139
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Quote:
go go gaget go-bot.
>.<
are you serious? there was a simpsons episode like this.
Aw come on, Inspector Gadget was a badass MoFo.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/23/09 08:36 AM
24.5.141.133
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I have always wondered it there is a limit to stupidity. Newtype has proven that there is not.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Zandel_Corrin
02/23/09 05:58 PM
123.2.140.247
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Hardened Spring armour.......
Hardened armour has extra reinforcing.... spring armour "doesn't have much cohesion"......
Now even if we look passed the fact that your spring armour is just stupid.... how the hell does that work?!?!?!?
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Newtype
02/27/09 03:01 PM
207.160.205.13
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Obviously, Zandel Corrin and His Royal Highass Donkey, you two have never studied mechanical jump boosters very well. Just as a 'Mech with mechanical jump boosters can spring jump off pavement, a unit equipped with spring armor can bounce off pavement too. Hardened spring armor works by having spring plates alternate positions with each other vertically and horizontally and provides only 5 armor points per ton but negates two points of damage from weapon attacks in the same manner as hardened armor.
Edited by Newtype (02/27/09 03:03 PM)
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GiovanniBlasini
03/01/09 04:54 AM
64.183.4.46
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Quote:
Obviously, Zandel Corrin and His Royal Highass Donkey, you two have never studied mechanical jump boosters very well. Just as a 'Mech with mechanical jump boosters can spring jump off pavement, a unit equipped with spring armor can bounce off pavement too. Hardened spring armor works by having spring plates alternate positions with each other vertically and horizontally and provides only 5 armor points per ton but negates two points of damage from weapon attacks in the same manner as hardened armor.
That's not going to do anything at all to prevent a physical weapon from crushing the upper armor plates, actually. At all.
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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Zandel_Corrin
03/01/09 10:05 PM
123.2.140.247
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Quote:
Obviously, Zandel Corrin and His Royal Highass Donkey, you two have never studied mechanical jump boosters very well. Just as a 'Mech with mechanical jump boosters can spring jump off pavement, a unit equipped with spring armor can bounce off pavement too. Hardened spring armor works by having spring plates alternate positions with each other vertically and horizontally and provides only 5 armor points per ton but negates two points of damage from weapon attacks in the same manner as hardened armor.
You know that if a mech with boosters falls on there feet they still take damage and don't spring up right?
ANd my point is still valid.... it's like saying that this room is full of smoke but it's crystal clear..... your 'Hardened Spring armor' is a complete contradiction.....
Also hardened armour doesn't negate 2 points of damage... it takes twice as much damage to destroy... it has NO negate effect whatsoever.... even if you enchant it with your +20 wand of bullshit!
Now either get real or go back to what ever make believe world you came from and stop anoying the rest of us!
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Prince_of_Darkness
03/02/09 12:09 AM
205.202.120.139
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Actually, when you think about it, all those springs would be a monster for bullet and missile munitions to hit. If you have, say, about 5 different springs per ton of armor arranged in an X pattern, all that extra coil surrounding the design would play havoc with bullet-style weapons (which would more likely hit them, probably give the ability to re-roll a hit) and missiles (which would explode outside of the armor, so like a -1 on the cluster hits). Of course, to keep it balanced, you would have to lower the total points per ton to something around 14 points or so, and increase time for putting plates back on in campaigns. And then you probably would just want Reactive armor instead.
Edited by Prince_of_Darkness (03/02/09 12:10 AM)
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Kovax
03/02/09 10:28 AM
75.146.193.46
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A spring is only as strong as its weakest point. As can be demonstrated with a Slinky far too easily by accident, you can damage it with one small bend anywhere along its length. Springs are also somewhat vulnerable to snapping at a stress point. Think of what a laser would do to the individual springs: the beam crosses a number of different coils or strands, searing a weak spot in each of them. The first time the armor comes under stress, it snaps at that weak spot. The simple punch that might have done 5 points of damage now tears halfway through the armor, leaving broken pieces dangling to snag on other body sections or wedge themselves into the joints and cause movement problems.
In short, a spring is actually very fragile compared with a metal plate, NOT what I'd consider the ideal way to produce armor. Besides, NewType and a Slinky both have one thing in common....
They both put a smile on your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
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Cray
03/02/09 11:30 AM
147.160.136.10
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Quote:
The idea of spring armor is that a unit/structure will bounce off a unit/structure equipped with spring armor instead of doing damage to that unit/structure.
Springs won't work at the impact velocities and loads of BT melee items. BT armor is already extremely elastic (has a high Young's modulus), and yet still shatters under the impact of those weapons and other melee incidents.
Springs sufficient to protect against BT physical damage sources would need to be almost as heavy as the source of damage. To stop a 5-ton mace, you'd need a 5-ton spring - for each location protected from maces.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Newtype
03/02/09 05:27 PM
207.160.205.13
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Quote:
You know that if a mech with boosters falls on there feet they still take damage and don't spring up right?
Yes. Don't want to take falling damage, then have each location with spring armor.
Quote:
ANd my point is still valid.... it's like saying that this room is full of smoke but it's crystal clear..... your 'Hardened Spring armor' is a complete contradiction.....
It sort of is a contradiction, the determining critical hits table roll modifiers do cancel each other out.
Quote:
Of course, to keep it balanced, you would have to lower the total points per ton to something around 14 points or so, and increase time for putting plates back on in campaigns.
I preferred 10 points (easy to calculate, especially with hardened armor and makes more sense).
Quote:
Also hardened armour doesn't negate 2 points of damage...
Each point of hardened armor gets destroyed for every 2 points of damage.
Quote:
Springs won't work at the impact velocities and loads of BT melee items. BT armor is already extremely elastic (has a high Young's modulus), and yet still shatters under the impact of those weapons and other melee incidents.
That I'll believe (physical melee items cut springs). But springs can negate charging and ramming attacks and falling damage.
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Zandel_Corrin
03/02/09 06:39 PM
123.2.140.247
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Why bother quoting me if your just gonna validate my arguments against ytou?
Bah! this is just stupid.... i can feel my brain cells rotting just reading the poison you write.
\
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Newtype
03/02/09 06:42 PM
207.160.205.13
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The point I wanted to make is that spring armor can negate falling, ramming, and charging attacks.
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Zandel_Corrin
03/02/09 06:49 PM
123.2.140.247
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But it CAN'T!
Springs just do NOT have the ability to negate that much kinetic energy..... not the ones your talking about anyway... the spring you'd need would have to be the size of a mech on it's OWN!
Consider this test:
Strap springs onto your boots.... jump off a 3+ story building and see if you take damage.
That will not only prove my point but also get you out of my hair...
And while your in hospital (assuming you live) you can consider how stupid you have been.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/03/09 05:25 PM
24.5.141.133
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Quote:
Springs sufficient to protect against BT physical damage sources would need to be almost as heavy as the source of damage. To stop a 5-ton mace, you'd need a 5-ton spring - for each location protected from maces.
You do know that a 5 ton spring does not weigh 5 tons don't you? The weight of the spring is the weight that it can handle not what it its self weighs. Just because a spring is rated at 5 tons, that does not mean that it can handle a 5 ton impact.
Loser, newtype or what other names you want to go by.
Springs are meant to go up and down and not side to side. An impact like a fall or a sticking weapon would just shear the springs from there mountings. Yes, it would seem like a good idea at first but when you think of the forces involved its just would not work. At this rate in the real 31st century you might just come up with a good idea. Well, that is if you can live a thousand years to be around then.
Well newtype can't dazzle us with brilliance, so he tries to confuse us with bullshit.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Lafeel
03/04/09 06:29 PM
157.157.29.92
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Found a picture that will sum this whole thing up quite nicely. 
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Prince_of_Darkness
03/04/09 09:28 PM
205.202.120.139
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Quote:
Found a picture that will sum this whole thing up quite nicely.
Ha! This entire thread was made of FAIL but was soon made into WIN.
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Zandel_Corrin
03/05/09 01:21 AM
123.2.140.247
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EPIC FAIL to EPIC WIN in one post!
Classic.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Newtype
03/06/09 11:42 AM
207.160.205.13
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So what are you folks saying that a 'Mech that jumps off a ten elevation level tall building can't use its spring mechanical jump boosters to safely land if they provide a jump MP of 11?
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Prince_of_Darkness
03/06/09 01:07 PM
205.202.120.139
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Tripod
05/20/09 02:36 AM
192.94.94.105
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I know I should just keep my mouth shut but I cant...
Last time I checked mechanical Jump Boosters were not springs in any way...
They were in fact an extra joint(knee/ankle), fitted with TSM and a heater(hence the heat generated even when not in use) to keep the TSM active.
Yes, if a mech with an 11mp mechanical jump movement could jump off a level 10 hill/building and land with no dammage after passing his PSR. This is because the myomers working with the levers of the body segments compound to create a far greater spring "RATING" to absorb the sudden stop at the end of a mechanical jump.
on the flip side.... I could see all those springs snaging fists, maces and hatchets! Velcro Doom armor...
Keep it real(as real as BT gets anyways)...
TBA
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