CYBRN4CR
02/09/10 08:35 AM
71.236.221.45
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This thread examines the Inner Sphere Honor Guard's only Summoner, and its use from 3062 to 3081 and beyond.
History:
After bravely fighting the Clan Jade Falcon forces on Coventry, Gen. Alexander discovered that his forces were being chewed up by the Clan's superior technology. Declaring the battle a loss, he ordered a full retreat covering his ISHG's retreat so that they could escape. However, before he could escape himself, his mech was destroyed and Alexander was forced to eject. When he busted out of his pod, he was dismayed to find his unit's dropships already dusted off. He was easily found by the Jade Falcon warrior that defeated him, and was immediately taken Bondsman.
His story since then has been one of strife, prejudice, and bittersweet victories; ultimately earning the right to be a Warrior, and the right to fight for the Clan. Rubbing in the Trueborn's dominance, Alex was given an inferior Summoner chassis to work with. Brushing off the insults, Alex talked with some freeborn techs he had befriended, and had them attach preexisting Summoner arms, and modify the rest of the design to make it complete. This led to his personal Summoner A. After taking flak from the warrior that captured him, Alex was ultimately allowed to prove his worth in the design. Doing so flawlessly, the warrior allowed Alex to continue to live and serve his ego as his personal trophy.
Below are the MegaMek condensed readouts of the designs (less redundancy and clutter).
Code:
Summoner A Alexander (~3062)
70 tons Clan
Movement: 4/6/4
Engine: 280 XL
Heat Sinks: 14 [28]
Internal: 107 (Endo Steel)
Armor: 217/217 (Ferro-Fibrous)
HD: 3 9
CT: 22 35 ( 9)
RT: 15 22 ( 8)
LT: 15 22 ( 8)
RA: 11 22
LA: 11 22
RL: 15 30
LL: 15 30
Medium Pulse Laser [LA] 4 Heat
Gauss Rifle [LA] 1 Heat
ER PPC [RA] 15 Heat
LRM 20 [LT] 6 Heat
Gauss Ammo (8) [LA]
Gauss Ammo (8) [LA]
Gauss Ammo (8) [LA]
LRM 20 Ammo (6) [LT]
LRM 20 Ammo (6) [LT]
LRM 20 Ammo (6) [LT]
LRM 20 Ammo (6) [LT]
ECM Suite [HD]
Carrying Capacity:
One battle armor squad
BV: 2,775 Cost: 18,656,792 Cbills
When the Truce of Tukayyid ended, Alex was able to play his cards right to be able to fight on the Inner Sphere frontlines. During one of the sorties on a backwater Lyran planet, Alex and other warriors met Inner Sphere resistance. When Alex's captor (then a Star Captain thanks to his leveraging Alex's exploits as his own) sent out a Batchall for a Trial of Possession for the world, Alex was surprised to hear that the opposing force was his old unit, led by his son.
Using the Trial as his means of escape, Alex played his part as a loyal ex-bondsman well, hoping his son's forces would know enough about Clan law to aid in his plan. Thankfully they did, and after the dust settled, Alex was taken Bondsman again, along with his mech.
Once safely away, it was quickly noted that Alex's design was heavily ammo dependant, but had the same weapons as some other ISHG mechs. So after switching out the ECM in the head, and loading ammo the ISHG had in stock, Alex's Summoner A2 was formed.
Code:
Summoner A2 Alexander
70 tons Mixed (Base Clan)
Movement: 4/6/4
Engine: 280 XL
Heat Sinks: 14 [28]
Internal: 107 (Endo Steel)
Armor: 217/217 (Ferro-Fibrous)
HD: 3 9
CT: 22 35 ( 9)
RT: 15 22 ( 8)
LT: 15 22 ( 8)
RA: 11 22
LA: 11 22
RL: 15 30
LL: 15 30
Medium Pulse Laser [LA] 4 Heat
Gauss Rifle [LA] 1 Heat
ER PPC [RA] 15 Heat
LRM 20 [LT] 6 Heat
TAG [HD] (IS) 0 Heat
Gauss Ammo (8) [LA] (IS)
Gauss Ammo (8) [LA] (IS)
Gauss Ammo (8) [LA] (IS)
Semi-guided LRM 20 Ammo (6) [LT] (IS)
Semi-guided LRM 20 Ammo (6) [LT] (IS)
Semi-guided LRM 20 Ammo (6) [LT] (IS)
Semi-guided LRM 20 Ammo (6) [LT] (IS)
Carrying Capacity:
One battle armor squad
BV: 2,680 Cost: 18,848,042 Cbills
To this day, Alex serves his ISHG well, and is deeply proud of the man his son had become.
Discuss.
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Zandel_Corrin
02/09/10 05:50 PM
123.2.140.247
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Now THAT is a nice design. Is it just me or is that slower than the Prime? Either way it's a good loadout for use at range or up close... with no min range on those LRMs or anything else for that matter i'd hate to have one of these jump out from behind a nearby mountain!
Good Work.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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CYBRN4CR
02/09/10 10:22 PM
71.236.221.45
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Thank you for the good words! 
Yes, it is slower than the original (5/8/5 vs 4/6/4 with Alex's "Inferior" Summoner), but I think it does the Summoner better justice than both the Prime and the A variant combined. 
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Dester
02/10/10 04:21 PM
216.57.96.1
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That is not a summoner. That is a totally customized design and there for impossible for him to be piloting. Lets over look the bit of fiat that gave phelan kell/ ward a totally pimped out custom wolfhound (and for all we know they planned to mass produce that sucker). As an innersphere bondsman he would be luck to just be piloting an omni mech much less even get to pick his config and not have his unit commander pick it. I could JUST by a customized config on a standard chassis but not a fully customized one off mech.
As for the mech itself, its a decent fire support platform that totally min/ maxes the stats as far is it could get. I would probably drop one ton of LRM ammo and and an artimis IV to it to get a bit more punch. Would be mostly helpless against a close in brawler mech, but if keep to fire support duities it should be ok.
Still the mech does not fit the story. Replacing that FFA armor as it gets blasted off is sure going to be a pain in the ass for an IS unit running clan FFA also. Not sure why you keep trying to give this guy a super clean mech though. And lets gloss over the fact of a 0/2 pilot... but really if by some mirical of fiat he walked away from his clan with that mech, he would be much better off to sell / traded it to some house unit to get a good solid IS design. easier to maintain and repair.
Dester
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Zandel_Corrin
02/10/10 06:09 PM
123.2.140.247
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Quote:
Would be mostly helpless against a close in brawler mech, but if keep to fire support duities it should be ok.
How do you figure? It has enough movement ability with those jets to be deadly and ALL of those weaps can be fired at close range.
I don't know about you but a 2 insta kill weaps (Gauss and PPC if either hits head that 15 damage means it's over) and a very good chance for that LRM to hit for good scatter damage...
I know i wouldn't want to be near that... At least not with anything short of an Atlas!
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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CYBRN4CR
02/10/10 10:00 PM
71.236.221.45
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I appreciate your opinion. Yes, it will be very hard for my Inner Sphere unit to keep and maintain a Clan mech, but that's as far as I'm going to budge on that topic.
Now as for the mech, it is my opinion that the Clans seriously need to upgrade their base chassis as much as the Inner Sphere needs to upgrade its designs. Most Clan chassis don't have max armor (or within .5 tons of it), or both endo steel and ferro fibrous armor. The heavier assaults may not need the ferro or endo, but their locked components could be removed allowing for greater flexibility of design. Now I'm not saying remove the MASC or the Jump Jets from an Executioner, or the Targeting Computer from a Warhawk, but certainly there could be more thought put into the base chassis before they are locked. Then there is the fact that the variants of most Clan mechs aren't very efficient (both in utilizing available space, and in weapon selection)...
If I have to say it point blank, neither the Inner Sphere nor the Clans should be stupid with their mech designs. Each chassis should be well suited for the role it was designed for, be efficient in utilizing space and tonnage using the components available, and be a threat on the battlefield to either faction. The Summoner I have created for Alex is well suited for the role it was designed for, is efficient in utilizing space and tonnage, and is a threat on the battlefield. It's not canon, but it makes sense in my Battletech universe.
As for the 0/2, for someone who was a part of the regular AFFS military during the War of 3039, fought against the Clans until 3058 as CO of his own unit, rigorously trained in counter-clan tactics, and fought as part of the Clans until he escaped in 3067, honestly deserves to be a 0/2. He's been through a lot, so naturally he needs a gunnery/piloting value that reflects all that history.
That's where I stand, anyway.
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Karagin
02/10/10 11:40 PM
80.149.45.102
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I agree with you, it is a decent mech and has the weapons to dish out damage. The combo of Gauss and ER PPC is a well known and over done combo, BUT it works. Folks who know how to use their mechs can fight this mech without much issue, odds don't favor them winning but then again most won't fight unless they have to.
Really the weapons loadout is not anything revolutionary, but it is something to be not taken lightly.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Zandel_Corrin
02/11/10 01:27 AM
123.2.140.247
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Whoa hang on a sec! About that pilot... are you saying that he was taken bondsman at The Battle Of Coventry?
If so you should really read up on that fight... while yes there were a lot of mercs involved in both the coventry expedition force and the coventry relief force it should be noted that the Jade Falcons released ALL bondsmen at there withdrawal.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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CYBRN4CR
02/11/10 02:27 AM
71.236.221.45
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Hmm that does pose a problem.
Well, they don't have to be a part of Victor's endeavor. I'll have to see what other events work.
Edited by CYBRN4CR (02/11/10 05:15 AM)
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Karagin
02/11/10 03:29 AM
80.149.45.102
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Get a copy of the Jade Falcon Sourcebook it has what you are looking for.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/11/10 04:52 AM
71.236.221.45
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What about Operation Audacity? It's a little later, but I'm sure with a big operation like that, there would be space for a small unit like mine to engage the Falcons on a world, get overrun, and have everything still work. 
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Dester
02/11/10 06:47 PM
216.57.96.1
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Quote:
Quote:
Would be mostly helpless against a close in brawler mech, but if keep to fire support duities it should be ok.
How do you figure? It has enough movement ability with those jets to be deadly and ALL of those weaps can be fired at close range.
I don't know about you but a 2 insta kill weaps (Gauss and PPC if either hits head that 15 damage means it's over) and a very good chance for that LRM to hit for good scatter damage...
I know i wouldn't want to be near that... At least not with anything short of an Atlas!
It does have a decent load out for range, but for a total min max mech it can dish out a wopping 57 pts of damage a turn (if all the lrms hit) but more realisticly given an average spread of 12 missles from a 20 rack your gona get 49 pts of damage. A good close in brawler will easily have 1/2 again more then that damage per turn. The mechs weapons are mostly arm mounted, while this keeps in form of clan mechs it will also sufer from degraded perfomance more quickly then if the weapons were mostly torso mounted. Next it has a lot of slots that can go boom from crit hits or TAC which most close in brawlers excell at. Finally, a close in brawler in that era usually has TSM or some other devistating physical attack capabailities. Using normal pilots and not the fiat 0 gunner that mech just can't dish enough damage to put the brawler down before he lays the smack down, especially if there is good cover to get close enough to not be the focus of the long range fire power.
To the OP i believe a Night Gyr would be a much better solution to your delima, it is more of a min/ max mech, is a common heavy omni in the era and of the jade falcons. Just because a mech jock has been a round the block a time or 3 doesn't mean that he is a super pilot. Elite pilots are born, not made as a matter of grinding out battles. I could understand a 3/4 easy, 2/3 is easy to justfy too. Hey its your story but it just oozes munch. Trying to keep it grounded.
Dester
Edited by Dester (02/11/10 06:49 PM)
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Zandel_Corrin
02/12/10 01:25 AM
123.2.140.247
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I still think it could stay out of melee range easy enough and with the right moves should be able to get behind more often than not...
I get what your saying but can you offer an example of the brawler type mech your thinking of? (in the 60-80 ton range).
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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CYBRN4CR
02/12/10 07:11 AM
71.236.221.45
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Quote:
To the OP i believe a Night Gyr would be a much better solution to your delima, it is more of a min/ max mech, is a common heavy omni in the era and of the jade falcons. Just because a mech jock has been a round the block a time or 3 doesn't mean that he is a super pilot. Elite pilots are born, not made as a matter of grinding out battles. I could understand a 3/4 easy, 2/3 is easy to justfy too. Hey its your story but it just oozes munch. Trying to keep it grounded.
Dester
I do see your point. I have a 4/6/4 70t Clan heavy omnimech with close to max ff armor and endo steel that Clan Jade Falcon uses. The Night Gyr is a 4/6/4 75t Clan heavy omnimech with close to max ff armor and endo steel that Clan Jade Falcon uses. Now working with the limits of the omni chassis, I was able to produce a loadout exactly like what I have for this imaginary Summoner chassis, save for an additional medium pulse laser and an extra heatsink. Simple, and is within canon without just simply taking the Night Gyr Prime, and leaving it at that.
While your solution is good, and under normal circumstances I would have accepted it, I think the issue I presented is being side-stepped. If Clanners want mechs with max armor, ferro, and endo, they can't have any of the original 3050 designs (except for the Timber Wolf, Stormcrow, possibly the Nova - and for the assaults with simply max armor, the Dire Wolf and the Warhawk). Then there is the fact that a lot of the designs need rethinking (e.g. if you take a Nova Prime, simply removing four ER med lasers and exchanging them for four double heatsinks would produce a deadlier, more heat-efficient prime variant).
Now that is simply with staying within the restrictions of the omni chassis. If the Clans were able to configure their engines, armor and internals (probably not components - those can stay locked) as much as the Inner Sphere can, that would open up a whole new way to enjoy the Clans. This is where I break from the canon. Clans can certainly have their variants, but now all Clan mechs can make sense as much as Inner Sphere redesign/refits do. We all love to tinker with designs and make them better, why not the Clans? If I love my widdle Summoner so vewwy vewwy much, why can't I change the engine a little, and upgrade the armor and internals so I can have a better design than ANY of its variants?
Then there is canon this, and canon that about how omni chassis were designed to allow battle flexibility for the Clanners on the field. Really? I think the scientist, tech, and merchant castes were conspiring against the warrior caste when they made a good portion of the mechs have built-in flaws such as weak armor, or poor usage of ferro/endo/XL components. The variants only add other issues, like inefficient use of space (save for a few here and there). If so, good for them. Maybe that's the REAL reason why the Inner Sphere won. It's due to exploiting critical flaws in their mech designs!
I think any smart Clanner, if they took the time to look at the mechs they piloted, would say stravag! at these deficiencies, and bludgeon the lower castes over their heads for poorly designing their equipment. But no, Clan warriors are too focused on their own egos, and wanting to make a good impression on their Codexes to really care, or if they care, they gripe about not being properly equipped. But in the end, nothing can be done to the old designs, and thus must have whole new mechs in order to fix their old grievous errors.
This makes no sense according to what I think the Clans should be like. Frankly, some bending of the rules is welcome in my book. Jeez, Lafeel can simply write the Word of Blake out of his universe so the DCMS can have upgraded designs with MMLs. I'm bending the rules just like Lafeel, just making the Clan omnis customizable to a greater degree.
Now with what you said about elite pilots, be careful with what you're saying. As is, you are essentially saying characters like Natasha Kerensky, or Kai-Allard-Liao were born elite, while the grunts who slug it out battle after battle can never achieve elite status. This is illogical: any soldier has the ability to get really good at what they do over time. A soldier doesn't know how to shoot a weapon properly with any accuracy until they are trained, and while they can learn some things in training, they can only learn others in battle. As such, with every battle, with every year a soldier lives to fight another day, they learn from their experiences and become better soldiers. Even the great characters in Battletech had to have their roots as a Private or Sibbie when they started out.
Same with Alex. He didn't just become a 0/2. He was a 3/4 around 3039 or so (honoring his time in the AFFS), then from 3050-3058 he trained in anti-Clan tactics, and fought against the Clans justifying two -1/-1 drops, making him a 1/3. Then after being captured, prejudice and greater technology would force him to gain an added -1/-1 boost so that he could prove his value as a warrior to the Falcons. I think all this is justified with the 30+ years he was a mech pilot for both camps.
If not, I don't think I can ever convince you that I am not just another munchkin player, and that I actually do have good things to present to the world of Battletech. In which case, we are stalemated.
@Zandel_Corrin
After taking a look at various maps of the Inner Sphere, and reading various histories of planets, I decided Alex became a Jade Falcon Bondsman on La Grave in 3058. Since then, he has always remained there until the Jade Falcons started pushing back the 3067 incursions into their OZ. At which point he could be on Pandora, Rasalgethi, or attacking Crimond or Tomans. Any of the Jade Falcon planets, or the Lyran planets near La Grave are up for grabs. I haven't solidified that part yet.
But La Grave is my final answer on that issue.
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