Karagin
01/23/02 12:20 AM
63.173.170.65
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Below is my take on an idea that came up during a discussion of the aftermath of Operation Bulldog:
ype/Model: Indra Infantry Transport (IS version)
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3050
Config: Wheeled Vehicle
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 35 tons
Power Plant: 155 Nissan Fusion
Cruise Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Armor Type: Compound K4 Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 ER Large Laser
4 Series IX Machine Guns
Manufacturer: Various
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: Consolidated Type 2I
Targeting & Tracking System: Series VI KITT
==Overview:==
The Indra is heavily armed and armored for its size and role. Though the two vehicles serve vastly different roles, a strong rivalry exists between crews of the Indra and the Zorya, based on the fact that the infantry transport is superior to the Zorya light tank in almost every area, though the opposite might be expected.
After capturing several of these during Operation Bulldog, the Combine has been build their own version of this vehicle.
==Capabilities:==
The Indra is named for the Brahmanic archer-god who wields a bolt of lightning, so the choice of an extended-range PPC for the vehicle's main armament is particularly appropriate. The PPC masses only six tons, but its huge power requirements and the resulting waste heat require the manufacturer to install almost as much mass again in heat sinks. Even with the added heat sinks, repeated firing of the fixed-forward main gun can make the infantry compartment unbearably hot. One modification designed to compensate for this flaw involved installing a dedicated cooling circuit around the cargo bay, but this change ultimately made little difference.
While the above is true for the Clan version the Combine felt that the use of an ER PPC meant that they would have to give up something to keep that kind of firepower, so instead they went with an ER Large Laser, thus gaining enough tonnage to increase the armor and add in a larger bay for the infantry.
Anti-personnel defense comes from quadruple chain guns mounted in the micro-turret. These provide devastating anti-infantry fire through 360 degrees, allowing the swift elimination of unarmored infantry while "smart targeting" ensures minimal casualties among friendly troops. The turret weapons have also proven effective against armor and aircraft, fouling tracks, turret mechanisms and control surfaces to deadly effect and far in excess of their commonly accepted anti-armor abilities.
To give its passengers the best chance of arriving at their destination unhurt, the Indra carries five tons of ferro-fibrous armor, with both front and sides well-protected against a single hit by even the heaviest weapons. The turret and rear are less well-armored, but will hold against small arms and most anti-vehicle weapons. The weak link, as with all similar vehicles, is the drive train and the wheels, but the Indra's tires contain a light armor weave and make use of the same self-sealing gels (Harjel) used on WarShips and Elemental suits, allowing them to repair any breach and re-inflate as needed. This system is effective against up to 50mm caliber weapon attacks, as the entry and exit holes produced by larger rounds are too large for the Harjel to provide a sufficient seal.
==Variants:==
There is only one variant of the Kurita copy, and that goes with an PPC over the normal ER PPC.
==Deployment==
The most notorious Inner Sphere deployment of the Indra occurred on the world of Turtle Bay. When rioting broke out following the occupation, Clan Smoke Jaguar dispatched a number of vehicles to control the violence, using Indras to attempt to intimidate the population into submission. This ploy failed, and in the central marketplace of the city of Edo the crowd actually attempted to seize control of two vehicles, prompting the crew to open fire. In less than a minute the tanks killed nearly five hundred people, escalating the situation to the extent that the Jaguar commander declared the situation insoluble and razed the city from orbit.
The Indra ISV, as it is being called by the DCMS units using it, are mostly found on worlds along the Ghost Bear/Combine Border and the worlds along the Periphery of Combine space.
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Type/Model: Indra Infantry Transport (IS version)
Mass: 35 tons
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 20 pts Standard 0 3.50
Engine: 155 Fusion 0 5.50
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 3.00
Cruise MP: 5
Flank MP: 8
Heat Sinks: 12 Single 0 2.00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 2.00
Crew: 3 Members 0 .00
Turret Equipment: 0 .50
Armor Factor: 125 pts Ferro-Fibrous 2 7.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 4 37
Left / Right Sides: 4 25/25
Rear: 4 17
Turret: 4 21
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 ER Large Laser Front 12 1 5.00
4 Machine Guns Turret 0 100 5 2.50
Infantry Bay Body 1 4.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 12 9 35.00
Items & Tons Left: 3 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 920,808 C-Bills
Battle Value: 374
Cost per BV: 2,462.05
Weapon Value: 269 / 269 (Ratio = .72 / .72)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 10; MRDmg = 6; LRDmg = 2
BattleForce2: MP: 5W, Armor/Structure: 0 / 5
Damage PB/M/L: 2/1/1, Overheat: 0
Class: GL; Point Value: 4
Specials: tran4
And here is the variant mentioned above:
Type/Model: Indra Infantry Transport (IS version) 2
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3050
Config: Wheeled Vehicle
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 35 tons
Power Plant: 155 Nissan Fusion
Cruise Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Armor Type: Century Ferro Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
4 Browning Machine Gun Machine Guns
1 Lords Light PPC
Manufacturer: Various
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: Colmax 90
Targeting & Tracking System: Matabushi Sentinel
Type/Model: Indra Infantry Transport (IS version) 2
Mass: 35 tons
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 20 pts Standard 0 3.50
Engine: 155 Fusion 0 5.50
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 3.00
Cruise MP: 5
Flank MP: 8
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 2.00
Crew: 3 Members 0 .00
Turret Equipment: 0 1.00
Armor Factor: 116 pts Ferro-Fibrous 2 6.50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 4 35
Left / Right Sides: 4 23/23
Rear: 4 16
Turret: 4 19
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
4 Machine Guns Turret 0 100 5 2.50
1 PPC Turret 10 1 7.00
Infantry Bay Body 1 4.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 10 9 35.00
Items & Tons Left: 3 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 907,296 C-Bills
Battle Value: 384
Cost per BV: 2,362.75
Weapon Value: 270 / 270 (Ratio = .70 / .70)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 10; MRDmg = 6; LRDmg = 2
BattleForce2: MP: 5W, Armor/Structure: 0 / 5
Damage PB/M/L: 2/1/1, Overheat: 0
Class: GL; Point Value: 4
Specials: tran4
Okay comments? Ideas on this one?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
07/05/05 02:10 AM
63.157.57.15
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Bumped for the new folks...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
12/08/06 01:29 AM
70.123.166.36
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Okay anything??
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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JackGarrity
12/08/06 03:00 AM
71.207.203.207
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Dude, its DCMS that gets sexy points in my book. I like eet. swear ive seen it someplace though, nice lil tank.
Greetings Mechwarrior.
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Karagin
12/08/06 12:38 PM
70.123.166.36
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I could have posted it on another board, thanks for the comments.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/20/10 01:44 AM
80.156.183.223
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So if anyone uses this, let us know how it does...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/06/10 03:17 AM
71.236.221.45
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Just curious: any reason the heat sinks have been left as standard versions, especially for a level 2 vehicle?
Otherwise looks alright. I'm not a vehicle fan, but I know they can be very useful for infantry support. 
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Karagin
02/06/10 04:26 AM
80.156.183.223
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Show me a need for them to be double and a way to do it for a vehicle I will change them, but given that the rules will allow the use of double heat sinks on vehicle, we are stuck with singles. I don't agree with it, but that is how it is until the powers that be change it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/06/10 05:33 AM
71.236.221.45
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I'll have to check the rulebooks, but yeah that is odd. :/
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Karagin
02/17/10 03:08 PM
80.149.45.102
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Well did you check?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Prince_of_Darkness
02/17/10 04:27 PM
205.202.120.216
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Quote:
Show me a need for them to be double and a way to do it for a vehicle I will change them, but given that the rules will allow the use of double heat sinks on vehicle, we are stuck with singles. I don't agree with it, but that is how it is until the powers that be change it.
Putting DHS on a vehicle would make them absurdly powerful.
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Zandel_Corrin
02/17/10 05:28 PM
123.2.140.247
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I disagree here i'm afraid. DHS isn't going to change as much as you might think... sure they would get a little extra weight for stuff but that's all.
So your vehicles would get more 'bite' there still easy enough to destroy even the ones that out armour mechs. Also mechs have DHS so it makes sense that vehicles would have something similar eventually.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Karagin
02/18/10 12:18 AM
80.149.45.102
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I agree that id does makes sense for them to have them, though every time it has been asked for TPTB tell us it would take the mechs out of the king of hill slot they have in this game. Just like the idea that the IC Engines vehicles use are twice the weight of the fusions even after centuries of improvements to engine technology. List of improvements that could be made to vehicles goes on, mechs have endo steel, why can't that same technology be applied to the vehicles internal structure?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Zandel_Corrin
02/18/10 01:27 AM
123.2.140.247
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The rules i'm thinking of might be a bit old but i'm sure i read somewhere that vehicles COULD use endo steel, ferro fibrous and DHS...
Maybe what i read was someone's house rules... i've seen so many over the years it's a bit hard to remember sometimes.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Karagin
02/18/10 01:35 AM
80.149.45.102
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House rules are possible the best bet...the only thing high tech vehicles can use is Ferro, XL and LE engines and now stealth armor, along with some of the other newer armor types.
Endo and DHS have been off limits, wish it wasn't so, but that is how it is.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Prince_of_Darkness
03/17/10 02:56 PM
205.202.120.210
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I hate bringing this up again, but considering how I've seen threads 8+ years old being bumped up lately...
Quote:
I disagree here i'm afraid. DHS isn't going to change as much as you might think... sure they would get a little extra weight for stuff but that's all.
So your vehicles would get more 'bite' there still easy enough to destroy even the ones that out armour mechs. Also mechs have DHS so it makes sense that vehicles would have something similar eventually.
Did you hear that smacking sound in the distance? That's the sound of the palm of my hand striking my face with the speed of a jet fighter.
Vehicles cannot use DHS due to game balance. Just as Karagin stated, 'mechs are the kings here, and giving tanks the abilities of those beautiful double-chambered radiators would throw things off. Proof?
Let's take an Ontos, preferably the second, fusion-powered version. 14 tons of heat sinks help out the armament of three medium pulse and 4 medium lasers- a heavy, short range level of firepower that comes at the cost of available weight for other equipment- I can put a lot towards 14 tons, and in vehicles (especially the 3053 upgrade) could mean the addition of more SRM systems.
But let's try using DHS. We'll need 12, not 24, so we free up 12 tons for other equipment. We could add another two SRM 6's with artemis IV, and another two tons of ammo for a short range wallop of 22 (!) SRM's. That increases it's firepower by over 1.5 times alone!
But let's do something REALLY extreme. Let's remove all the equipment, increasing the number of medium lasers all the way up to 12. This requires a total heat dissipation rating of 36- requiring 8 more DHS (since we got 10 for free in the engine). Because heat sinks don't count as "items" in the total tanks space, we can mount as many as we wish. Doing this, we increase the laser firepower of the 3053 Ontos by 22 points, while it saves us 4 tons for other equipment; we can now bump up the LRM 15 to a full-on LRM 20 with artemis, increase the size of the SRM 4 to a 6, keep artemis on everything... the only thing we lose is a total amount of available ammo, but since we now have two SRM's of the same type (and 12 medium lasers...) we can let them get away with one ton of missiles while bumping the LRM up to 3.
Get it now? Adding DHS to tanks is almost criminal; since they don't count heat sinks as taking up space in the chassis, a tank would have free reign to mount as many laser weapons as tonnage would allow. Can you imagine what horrors that would make- I can easily see a Di Morgan having 4 ER PPC's that way.
Quote:
I agree that id does makes sense for them to have them, though every time it has been asked for TPTB tell us it would take the mechs out of the king of hill slot they have in this game. Just like the idea that the IC Engines vehicles use are twice the weight of the fusions even after centuries of improvements to engine technology. List of improvements that could be made to vehicles goes on, mechs have endo steel, why can't that same technology be applied to the vehicles internal structure?
Remember- Battletech is the "future of the 1980's", when we believed that only businesses would use computers and artillery couldn't reach several miles. A good case in point would be the battlemech's internal structure- for something (like endo steel) needing to be made with foamed titanium IN SPAAAACEEE, it certainly weighs a lot. Not to mention the basic targeting and tracking systems taking up several tons for what should be a computer with the power and processor needs of a school laptop.
Giving Endo steel to vehicles , however, is a cool idea. I could see that going somewhere, but hopefully it wouldn't phase out Ferro altogether.
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CYBRN4CR
03/20/10 02:11 PM
71.20.224.150
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Very insightful post Prince.
Since I was the one who started this whole DHS debate, I do have one question: why then do ASFs have them?
BTW, I don't think endo for vehicles would phase out ferro. It will be used just as much as mechs and ASFs. 
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Karagin
03/20/10 06:03 PM
80.149.45.102
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The game doesn't allow DHS on vehicles.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Prince_of_Darkness
03/22/10 12:07 PM
205.202.120.210
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Quote:
Since I was the one who started this whole DHS debate, I do have one question: why then do ASFs have them?
For one, game balance. Conventional fighters, small craft, and dropships have to sink all the heat they generate- it's probably some fluff reason (like the heats real bad or some shit) but the ASF's are different. Since they are hermetically sealed and are made to fight in space, take down warships and the like, they are allowed to overheat a bit- however, they go too high, not only do they begin to risk losing control of the fighter, but they also run the risk of exploding (!).
It's why most of them have the ability to overheat, but have enough heat sinks to dissipate it all.
Quote:
BTW, I don't think endo for vehicles would phase out ferro. It will be used just as much as mechs and ASFs.
It's a good question if it would. It might just rest along the lines of availability, but I would rather it take up more space than even Heavy Ferro.
Quote:
The game doesn't allow DHS on vehicles.
Uh, yeah. I was just giving the reason why they shouldn't to your statements.
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