First Custom Mech, Mad Dog (Vulture) variant

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Philopoemen
01/27/11 09:19 PM
75.67.141.98

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This is my first custom mech design. I have been playing mostly my friend and have found out that I lack a brawler of sorts, a mech that can take some punishment and give it out. It is based off of the Mad dog chassis

Clan/ 3050 Rules Level 2

Mass: 60 tons
Internal Structure: standard
Engine: 300 XL Fusion (10 crits)
Total Heat Sinks: 12 double
Gyro: standard (4 crits)
Cockpit, life support, sensors : standard (5 crits)
Myomer: standard
Acutators L Sh+UA+LA, R Sh+UA+LA (14 crits)

Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous (201 points total armor) (7 crits)
Location: L/R

Head Internal 3 Armor 9
Center Torso F(R) Internal 20 Armor 30(10)
L/R Torso Internal F(R) Internal 14/14 Armor 21(7)/21(7)
L/R Arm Internal 10/10 Armor 20/20
L/R Leg Internal 14/14 Armor 28/28

Weapons and Equipment
2 ER Medium Lasers (Right Arm) (2 crits)
2 ER Medium Lasers (left Arm) (2 crits)
1 Guass Rifle (Right Torso, 16 ammo) (8 crits)
1 SRM 6 w/ Artemis IV (Left Torso, 15 ammo) (3 crits)
1 Targeting Computer (Left Torso) (4 crits)


BV2 2,423

Heavy Metal says there is nothing wrong with this custom configuration, but is there anything objectionable about it? Any issues that Heavy Metal may not spot? Critiques are welcome but if this is fine to field in game I would rather learn the hard way what works and what doesn't. Thank you in advance.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
01/27/11 10:31 PM
24.4.97.219

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I would say its a little light on long range weapons. Other than that Its a good solid design.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
CrayModerator
01/28/11 08:09 AM
147.160.136.10

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Quote:

Heavy Metal says there is nothing wrong with this custom configuration, but is there anything objectionable about it? Any issues that Heavy Metal may not spot? Critiques are welcome but if this is fine to field in game I would rather learn the hard way what works and what doesn't. Thank you in advance.




It's a workhorse. There's nothing particularly wrong with the weapons. They aren't a munchy combination of pulse lasers and targeting computers, they aren't min-maxed, and they do fit Clan omni configuration norms.

As noted, you are staking all your long-range firepower on one BFG but there aren't a lot of alternatives except heat pig energy weapons or similarly bulky autocannons. At least not at 60 tons.

Good start.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
01/28/11 10:50 AM
24.4.97.219

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Quote:

They aren't a munchy combination of pulse lasers and targeting computers




Pulse lasers can not use targeting computers. At least that is what I was told that the rules say and I 100% agree with.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Karagin
01/28/11 11:10 AM
178.76.138.173

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Hey HMRHD they use to be able to, and some our more munchkin players would abuse the hell out of that loop hole. You would see a lot of clan mechs with large pulse lasers and enough heat sinks to fire till the sun went nova and a TC, and boom all you would have are dead mechs on the other side. Then add in the normal munchkin crap of an elite pilot...yeah one rule change I am glad they made.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
01/28/11 12:37 PM
24.4.97.219

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When I had the game books they where so old that pulse lasers could use targeting computers. So I have never seen what could and what could not use targeting computers. I just assumed that any weapon or ammo that has a modified target role could not benefit from a targeting computer.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Karagin
01/28/11 01:33 PM
178.76.138.173

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I think that was the intent...but not what happen...nor was it ever corrected till the recent rule books series of what are we up to now 8 books or something like that?
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ix
01/28/11 02:05 PM
81.6.219.90

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Why isn't the balance issue with medium and large pulse lasers being addressed, maybe you have some insight Cray as I believe you've written commercial material for Battletech? Just tweak the ranges or bonuses. I would disagree with targeting computers being unfairly munchy, it's my experience that pure Pulse Lasers and heatsinks are the most efficiently thing you can do.
CrayModerator
01/28/11 02:55 PM
147.160.136.10

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Quote:

Pulse lasers can not use targeting computers. At least that is what I was told that the rules say and I 100% agree with.




That is not what the rules say. It is, however, a common misinterpretation of the rules, since the rules place restrictions on targeting computers and pulse/burst/cluster munitions.

Quote:

pg113, Total Warfare: P: Pulse weapon. Apply a –2 to-hit modifier to all weapon attacks. This weapon type can use a targeting computer when making attacks, except for aimed shots (see Targeting Computer, p. 143).

pg114, Total Warfare: Rapid-fi re weapons can use a targeting computer when making attacks, but cannot use the targeting computer to make an aimed shot if fi ring more than one shot in a turn (see Targeting Computer, p. 143).

pg143, Total Warfare:

Targeting Computer

To make an attack using the targeting computer, follow all
standard rules for weapons of that type, but modify the to-hit
number for any attacks using the unit’s weapon by –1 (see DE/
DB: Direct-Fire Energy or Ballistic Weapon, p. 113, to fi nd which
weapons can be used with a targeting computer).

The controlling player may use the targeting computer to
attempt to attack a specifi c hit location on an active unit. To do
so, an attacking unit ignores the standard –1 to-hit modifi er
for the targeting computer and uses the Aimed Shots rule (see
p. 110), but applies an additional +3 to-hit modifi er. The target
need not be immobile when using a targeting computer to
make such an aimed shot; if the target is not immobile, then
the –4 to-hit modifi er for an attack against an immobile target
does not apply. An attacker cannot target a ’Mech’s head
when making an aimed shot with a targeting computer.

If using a targeting computer to make an aimed shot against
an immobile target, apply an additional –1 modifi er (representing
the targeting computer) to the –4 immobile target modifi er.
All other rules for an aimed shot remain the same.

Hyper-Assault gauss rifl es: Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifl es may
not use a targeting computer to make an aimed shot.

LB-X Autocannons: When fi ring cluster munitions, LB-X
autocannons lose the benefi ts of the fi ring unit’s targeting
computer.

Pulse and Rapid-Fire weapons: Pulse and rapid-fire
weapons may not use a targeting computer to make an
aimed shot, unless a rapid-fi re weapon is fi ring a single shot,
in which case it can make an aimed shot as described above).




To summarize those rules:

Pulse lasers can get a -3 to-hit bonus (-2 base and -1 for the TC), but they can't make aimed shots with the targeting computer.

A RAC/5 or UAC/10 could get a -1 to-hit bonus when firing more than 1 shot per turn, but they could not make aimed shots when firing multiple shots. However, if switching to single shot, then they could make aimed shots.

HAGs are like pulse lasers: they can only get the -1 bonus and never can make aimed shots with TCs.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
01/28/11 03:35 PM
24.4.97.219

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If I ever run a campaign again I will have to make it a "house rule" that TCs can't benefit weapons and ammo that have modified attack roles. I do think that it is munchy to allow it.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Karagin
01/28/11 04:33 PM
178.76.138.173

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Originally you could get the -2 of the pulse bonus, then add in the -1 bonus of the targeting computer means that even a green pilot would need a 2 as their base number to hit and if the munchkin is using their normal BS elite wonder pilot then it comes down to a -1 for the base to hit number, so that is VERY munchy. Add in the heat sinks to allow firing everything every turn and well it should be clear that it can be no fun for the folks who are fighting it.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
CrayModerator
01/28/11 08:47 PM
97.100.133.59

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Quote:

If I ever run a campaign again I will have to make it a "house rule" that TCs can't benefit weapons and ammo that have modified attack roles. I do think that it is munchy to allow it.




Hell, the pulse laser is overpowered at -2. The targeting computer doesn't bother me so much with the -1. In combination...yeah, they're munchkin fodder.

But since pulse lasers aren't going to change, the only possible victim is targeting computers and to home rule that they completely don't work with pulse lasers.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
01/30/11 03:58 PM
173.128.81.12

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Quote:

Hell, the pulse laser is overpowered at -2.




I agree, it should have been only -1. I doubt that it will ever be changed.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Drasnighta
01/30/11 09:28 PM
70.73.77.99

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Can't fault Maximum armour, and basically, it suits as another Mad Dog variation - only this time, somewhat "in between" some of the other variants.


TC'd Gauss Rifle does make a nice BFG though, if you have to pick one...

Quad ERs as backup, not bad at all - attempt to Cripple at extreme range, open up holes with the Mediums, then Exploit with the SRMs...

I think personally, I'd have gone for a Double 4-Rack, rather than an Artemis'd 6-Rack - but thats personal choice.
CEO Heretic BattleMechs.
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