Did the wolverines infiltrate the clans. (extremely long)

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mejustafan
12/30/10 10:32 PM
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According to the Blake Documents at least part of the Wolverines made it back to the inner sphere and joined Com Star. If this is true then several bits of information can support Clan Wolverine infiltrating the Clans.

I would like to incorporate these bits of information into my posts.

1) The Wolverines met ROM
2) Mostly second line troops were unaccounted among the military.
3) They left as NK was starting the Clans and the old ways were just starting to die.
4) By joining Comstar / Rom and being from the SLDF, the Wolverines had access to many sources of knowledge and material.
5) The Dark Caste
6) The Gene Caste with the existence of Aramis and the commander of the Falcon Guard for the Jade Falcons.
7) Wolf's Dragoons were really the Wolves Dragoons.
8) The existence and skill of Seventh Commando.
9) The ineptitude of the Clan Watches.
10) The inability for Wolfnet to know about the Wobbies.
11) McGee's Cutthroats
12) The Ghost Bear's genotyping of dead WOB troops
13) The Tseng virus.

First off take as truth that Clan Wolverine met ROM and became a secret part of Comstar. The Wolverines are kept separate from mainstream Comstar and there contacts would have been with ROM and some of the powerful members of Comstar. The wolverines would have had highly skilled technicians, scientist and engineers. This would make them useful for repairing damaged and mothballed facilities. This would allow them to establish miltary production facilities and commercial industry. The establishment of their society would only need approximately fifty years to become very self sufficent and thriving.

My second point is that mostly second line troops survived. These were second line troop mostly due to NK philosophies on how combat should occur. This philosophy deemphasized special forces. Special forces would have been deemed dishonorable according to the Clan's code of warfare. At the time of the Wolverines Trial of Annihilation special forces could have still been a part of the Clan's military force. This could have been another reason why the Wolverines were more outspoken against NK. With the Wolverines meeting ROM/Comstar it would have been easy for the Wolverine's special forces to acquire jobs as both instructors and agents within ROM. They would have also access to SLDF special forces training and equipment and maybe the factories to construct advanced special forces equipment. Also being a small force compared to the Clans and the Inner Sphere; having the best special forces would have been an excellent way of leveling the battle field back into the Wolverines favor.

My third point is that while it would have made sense for the Wolverines to emphasize special forces. NK was developing a culture that looked down on special forces. By deemphasing special forces NK was increasing his ability to control clan culture and stop potential threats to his vision. According to source books,only after the Clans were defeated at Tukkayid did the Clan's start to field "The Watch". The Clans' Watches are supposed to be inferior to the intelligence services of the inner sphere. Not surprising the one exception to this generalization is the Seventh Commando fielded by the Wolve's Dragoons. How could the commando's have been so good and able to take on ROM and the Inner Sphere without prior training and experience. The solution is that NK kept his own special forces within his Clan while pressuring the other Clans to get rid of their special forces.

The Wolverines knew that the Clan's were a poteintal threat to their existence. Thus, it would make sense that the Wolverines would have tried to keep tabs on the Clans. They could have sent a fleet with BugEyes to remote Clan outposts. From there they could have learned IFF codes for various Jumpships and Dropships and their schedules. Using that information they could have sent spies to the outpost to gleam information on standard Clan life. This infiltration could have worked becuase: A) the clans were not expecting an outside force performing civilian espionage and B) as stated above the Clans were being trained to abhor/ use subterfuge. Only Clan Wolf would have had the means to catch this infiltration and that would have been the last Clan that the Wolverines would have wanted to infiltrate. The Wolverines would have waited to infiltrate the Wolves until they were assured of success. By systematically planting agents into Clan society (not the warrior class) the Wolverines could have had access to all of the Clans' civilian, technological and military secrets. This theory is supported by the Tseng virus.. Supposedly the base experiment was performed after the Wolverines left but the Wobbies have a variant of it to kill off the Tseng bloodline.

One of the covers for the Wolverines could have been the Dark Caste. How could the Dark Caste form without some form of support. How were members of the Dark Casete going to be able to get Mechs and spare pars without money. It is doubtful that they would have taken on the Clan's military directly. The Clan's had too powerful of a miltitary and also would have gained unwanted scrutiny. By using proxy agents (Dark Caste warriors) the Wolverines could have used them to cover their movements within the Clans. After awhile, Wolverine agents could have fostered the involvement of the Burrock Clan as a way for that Clan to promote itself against better equiped Clans.

Now as stated previously, the Wolverines did not have many front line mechwarriors or aerospace pilots. They would need them if they were ever to take on the Clans or the Inner Sphere. Note, supposely their worlds were being garrisoned by members of McGee's Cutthroats. If the Wolverines had infiltrated the Clans then they would have known about the Clans' warrior breeding program. What better way to acquire good mechwarriors and aerospace pilots than to steal them. This could have been done via the Gene Caste experiments. There are examples of individual from these experiments in the novels. The Wolverines could have pushed for these experiments and stolen genetic material from them and sent them back to thier homeworlds. Remember that identical twins occur due to cell division that results in two embryos from one embryo. The Clan scientists could have had one embryo and the other was sent back to the Wolverine's homebase. These experiments were also suppose to create the best warriors becuase they were using DNA mixtures from among all of the Clans. What if the Bears started to realize that the Wobbie warriors had DNA from among the Clans? This would make more sense than looking for Wolverine DNA because so few of the front line Wolverne warriors escaped the Annihilation Trial. Like said before this is backed up by the need for McGee's Cutthroats to garrison Wolverine worlds.

Now with this theory it is plausible that the Wolverines were able to infiltrate the Wolve's Dragoons from the beginning and would have been able to track their movements. The Dragoons did not know of the existence of the Wolverines. The Dragoons would have been given a false sense of security due to their ability to successfully outmanuever mainstream Comstar Rom. They would not be expecting another attack from an unknown source. It is easier to defend against a known enemy than an unknown enemy.

One other instance that I would like to point out. In the novel Wolves on the Boder, the HPG has been patched multiple times by inferior technicians or equipment. Why with all of Comstar's money would this occur. Also, Comstar should have had the expertise to manufacture top of the line replacement equipment. Why was sloppy patches occuring on Comstar equipment. Could it have been that the best and brightest along with alot of them money been used to create the Wobbie army years ago?

Comments?
Karagin
12/31/10 01:29 PM
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Uhmm wasn't the Wolverines bit in that book an optional idea/event path?

As for your last bit, ComStar was not going to show off their tech skills away from Terra, that would open them up to more fighting with the Houses. After all if they could build things like new HPGs, then they could be build hidden armies and massive warships and clone armies (sorry wrong sci-fi story), and not needing the mothballed and stored equipment that they had from the old SLDF units.

And sure why not, proto-WoB was working from day one of ComStar to bring about their Jihad.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
CrayModerator
12/31/10 05:59 PM
97.100.133.59

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Quote:

According to the Blake Documents at least part of the Wolverines made it back to the inner sphere and joined Com Star.




The Blake Document's take on things, that the Wolverines formed some sort of hard core group in Comstar that later influenced WoB, strikes me as an unnecessarily elaborate conspiracy theory like a number of other chapters in the Blake Documents.

However, the in-universe publication of that Comstar-Wolverine conspiracy theory and some strategic releases of Wolverine-type DNA traces seem like exactly the thing to, say, enrage the Ghost Bears into attacking WoB at the height of the Jihad.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
mejustafan
12/31/10 08:23 PM
70.246.144.130

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Karagin my first paragraph begins with "First off take as truth that Clan Wolverine met ROM and became a secret part of Comstar". I know that it is not official canon. I am just putting out a theory based on some tidbits of information and trying to use those tidbits to support my theory. Likewise, my reason for the last paragrah is that the Wolf tech complains about all the patchwork that had been done to the HPG. First, no one but Comstar should have seen the inner workings of the HPG system. Second, Comstar should have had adequate techs and equipment to maintain the HPG system. Comstar did not need to build new HPGs but merely maintain them. It does not make sense that they would leave their network in such shoddy disrepair.

Cray, I am attempting to take information that are in the rumor books and novelsl to conjecture a theory behind why they would make sense. In other words, I am trying to create a unified theory for the rumors.

Does my theory make sense? Is it contradictory to any known CBT work? To me it helps explain how WOB was able to take on the clans and the inner sphere for awhile. It all gives a reason for the gene caste, dark caste and the clans' lack of intelligence / special forces expertise to occur.
CrayModerator
12/31/10 09:18 PM
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Quote:

Cray, I am attempting to take information that are in the rumor books and novelsl to conjecture a theory behind why they would make sense. In other words, I am trying to create a unified theory for the rumors.




It's one solution, yes.

Quote:

It all gives a reason for the gene caste, dark caste and the clans' lack of intelligence / special forces expertise to occur.




If you need a single master, X-Files conspiracy theory to unite those for a home game, sure, your theory will work. However, canon reality is much more banal:

The genecaste remain tabloid rumors in BT; their heavily exaggerated powers mean they're unlikely to ever be made canonical.

The darkcaste is primarily just the criminals of the Clans, not an elaborate organization. Calling it a "caste" is a tongue-in-cheek thing, like saying the homeless and petty criminals of the US constitute an organized crime syndicate.

The Clans have extensive in-character reasons for their lack of intelligence services. Primarily, if they want to know what another Clan is up to, they simply ask. Zellbrigen says that when another military forces asks for details, you tell them or you're honorless scum.

Quote:

To me it helps explain how WOB was able to take on the clans and the inner sphere for awhile.




The Blake Documents, pg11-14, spell out the canonical reasons for WoB's ability to "take on" the Inner Sphere and Clans for a while. Critically, WoB did not attack everyone at once, but while WoB was starting to attack here and there virtually all factions were involved in several larger conflicts than WoB's initial activities.

For example, when WoB first hit New Avalon (and was sent packing in hours), the Federated Suns was engaged on a dozen worlds against the Taurian Concordat; the Capellan March started going its own away against the Confederation; the Draconis March started a war with the Combine; and the whole nation was suffering from a 5-year civil war that had only been over for months. An attack by WoB that was quickly defeated didn't merit a strong response when there were other, more pressing military threats.

Likewise, the Lyran Alliance was attacked by WoB at Tharkad, but the Alliance was soon involved in a major war with the Free Worlds League, had trouble from the Clans, and had trouble with Skye Secessionists (leading to the aforementioned FWL conflict.) WoB was not a serious problem to the Alliance for a couple of years.

The Draconis Combine had Clan problems on two fronts and a civil war that paralyzed Luthien, a dead/incapacitated Coordinator, and one of its own bioweapons running wild. This was long before WoB attacked the Combine, a stalwart of the new Star League.

etc.

And once the Inner Sphere turned on WoB, WoB collapsed quite quickly.

You don't need an elaborate conspiracy theory to explain what WoB accomplished. It had mundane military production capacity (quite a bit smaller than a House) that wasn't being bled out by continued, large-scale conflicts; it had 15 years of peace and quiet to build up its strength to something smaller than the invading Clans despite greater wealth and resources; and WoB didn't launch an all-out, attack-everyone conflict that would've focused everyone on it.

Such a conspiracy theory can be great fun, though.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Karagin
01/02/11 09:47 AM
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Yawn...and add in that they the writers need a boogieman and could not come up with something original...yeah that explains away the WoB and how they go from nothing to major players in less time then it took any of the other IS powers do to anything...but hey if that is what TPTB need to sell books and keep the game going...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
01/02/11 09:51 AM
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It does, that way none of the IS power groups would be interesting in trying to take the HPGs since they would see that even ComStar, through dis-information, has trouble keeping them up and running etc...so yes it does makes sense to hide the fact that they might have abilities that would make them targets of interest of the House Lords.

BUT, each of us plays the game differently and draws different ideas and such from the presented game facts, something that seems to be lost on many of TPTB. So is life...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ChenKedeAdatt
10/05/11 06:41 PM
95.29.35.17

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Post deleted by mattbuck
Venom
10/06/11 02:19 AM
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Be careful chip. Cray might call up Herb to lob a few nukes at you...and fun would be had by all.
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