Pimpslap
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/13/03
Posts: 365
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Combat Changes
#162523 - 11/21/11 01:09 AM (74.196.96.143)
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First off this is just my expressed view of what needs to happen in order to fix combat, and Neveron. Most of these ideas will be hated, so that means they are probably good ideas 
The basic game problem is that Neveron is not user friendly, is not playable in a meaningful way in a manageable time period. This has scared off all but the most die hard people. Neveron in its intensity has created a game environment that is toxic in the extreme. The fixes for this, in some cases will seem extreme, and in other cases be minor, but all the ideas should be viewed in context with all suggested changes.
1.Game Size- The game has grown to big. This is probably the leading factor in crashes and lag. Having unlimited zones, ect has created a HUGE mess. Shrinking the game to a manageable level going forward is a must.
All zone sizes are reduced to 60*60.
Max units in a zone is 72
Max pilot pool of 5,000 (Unassigned)
2. ABR- The main point of ABR was to help solve battles that couldn’t be solved by normal means. This has been twisted so far to a point where abr is the de-facto way to fight wars.
ABR is only available if you have 10 times the other side BV.
There is a minimum timer of 15 minutes before a zone can be put into ABR.
3. Towers- Put into the game to slow down attackers and give defenders solid defense. Towers need to be balanced with BV and with SP.
Tower are applied SP, same as vehicles.
Range- 2x and 3x range towers are removed.
Towers are given correct BV values based on weapon load-outs.
Towers are produce-able in factory and can be sold
4. Vehicles- Having next to no changes in vehicles in forever. For the most part vehicles should be used as more of a mobile road block, and slowing force till mechs arrive.
Vehicle Sp is slightly increased
Slight Maintance decrease
New Vehicles are added
5. Mechs- Once the sword in combat, now used more for ego bragging, then pew pew. Mech combat should be what the game is about.
Mech Sp is drastically lowered
New Mechs are added
Mechs have the ability to be moved off world. Must be out of combat for 24 hours.
General Changes--
SOI is auto-updated.
Surrendered empires zones not in SOI can be purchased at a normal cost.
Mech market NASI prices are fixed to reflect mineral prices.
Cities no longer lose buildings when they change hands in combat, just building damage is done.
Off-World zone is created. Empires can send a select number of mechs to this facility.
Blah looked better in openoffice. oh well its 2am ill finish post later, and maybe clean it up some.
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Harbingers of Chaos
COME WAR WITH US!!
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KJI_3x6
Lieutenant
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 648
Loc: Minnesota, North Korea
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: Pimpslap]
#162524 - 11/21/11 01:45 AM (71.193.82.235)
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we've been saying that this game is too many vehicles for what, 4 years? more? the fact that this is a battletech based game means while people might like veh's, the primary player pool out there wants mechs, and the fact that it takes months to be able to afford a fun mech is stupid.
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My d*** rumble in the jungle; your d*** got touched by your uncle.
My d*** double feature screen; your d*** went straight to dvd.
ME > you
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1812
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: KJI_3x6]
#162529 - 11/21/11 12:19 PM (173.168.109.130)
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well it will never happen so why post it?
max def units in a zone 72 pink panties pass.
abr is a joke and abuse able.
3 as always lets kill the only def unit we have in the game pink panties pass.
4 wow really then change the already sick critts before you jack up how much they will cost me pink panties pass.
5 this was supposed to have been done errr yrs ago pink panties pass.
with a player base shrinking by the week none of these changes would really bring back a real force of players. it would only bring back old players that come in here and **** and moan, about this needs to be changed and that. then they go back to thier owns forums i wont name which. and run thier mouths about how bad neveron is. funny indeed.
and it would appear none of you have ever played table top CBT because we dont all just run around in mechs its norm a 33% mech force. have no idea what people you guys play with.
the problem with neveron is the narrow minded options we have. vechs, towers, mechs thats it. vtols promised never happened nor ever will. replaced infrantry with what, still hasnt happend.
other issue is time line tech add more tech and yes id agree vechs would cost more they would act live more then 2 rounds?. mechs we would have 100s more var not the drop in the bucket we have now.
bottom line unless SM wins the lotto none of these pink panties pass ideas will ever happen. he lacks the 4-5 prof code writers that would be needed to do it right. take nev off line and start on a 100% new version of the game.
and the ever shrinking players base has asked for a new version. wws ran his mouth said it was in the works well that was pink panties pass years ago. wws did alot of damage to this game some people wont forgive or forget and dont care who owns the game now.
ill be honest there are alot of new free games out their that dont have bugs and a childish player base, that are more appealing then neveron right now. off the top of my head right now 4-5 CBT based online mmo games are in the works.
l8rs DABOSS 
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
Edited by ShadowMasterCM (11/23/11 11:44 PM)
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MatthewAce
Captain
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Neveron
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: cbtgod]
#162548 - 11/22/11 03:08 PM (220.255.2.33)
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USE PARAGRAPHS!!!
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Urbies are good.
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1812
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: MatthewAce]
#162552 - 11/22/11 07:41 PM (173.168.109.130)
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the rant looks better when i dont? l8rs DABOSS
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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MatthewAce
Captain
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Neveron
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: cbtgod]
#162554 - 11/23/11 06:30 AM (220.255.2.70)
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No it doesn't. It comes off as not giving a damn whether you got your point across.
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Urbies are good.
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: MatthewAce]
#162555 - 11/23/11 07:51 AM (147.160.136.10)
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Easy folks. I don't want someone getting so worked up over paragraphs that I issue warnings. There are better things in life to get banned over, like replying to someone expressing deep aesthetic appreciation of Justin Bieber.
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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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KJI_3x6
Lieutenant
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 648
Loc: Minnesota, North Korea
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: Cray]
#162558 - 11/23/11 12:33 PM (71.193.82.235)
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these two have it, don't you?
what do they have?
they have it.
they have...
bieber fever.
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My d*** rumble in the jungle; your d*** got touched by your uncle.
My d*** double feature screen; your d*** went straight to dvd.
ME > you
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Toten
Sergeant
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 147
Loc: Australia
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: MatthewAce]
#162559 - 11/23/11 02:18 PM (203.202.144.223)
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Not to mention legibility.
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To secure peace is to prepare for war.
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1312
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: Toten]
#162560 - 11/23/11 06:31 PM (76.28.186.150)
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One word. Justin Bieber. That should get millions of girls screaming. Justin Drew Bieber is the newest celebrity in town. He sings, dances, acts a little and has tons and tons of girls who adore him. This 16 year old has a crazy life. He performs, has autograph signings, travels the world, and does much more. You would think that Justin is just some typical 16 year old singer not much different from any other Disney star. But he’s way different. Through his hectic schedule he finds time to go on to Twitter and reply to his fans which mean the world to them, finds time to play basketball with his friends and just have fun and relax, also he finds time to hang out with his little brother and sister, Jaxon and Jazmine. How can he manage all of this you ask? Plus school work which takes up a good amount of time. Well, lets just say he’s no ordinary celeb. He loves god, his family, friends and most of all his fans which got him where he is now. He’s as normal as you and me minus the performing in front of thousands of people. He’s just like any other teenager out there. Teen’s like to have fun, joke around, and sometimes just sleep! I think the reason so many people like Justin is because of that, how they can relate to him. Justin Drew Bieber is as real as it gets.
<3
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: Katrar]
#162563 - 11/23/11 10:02 PM (97.101.96.171)
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****, at this point I'm going to have to issue myself a warning for threadjacking. 
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Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
Lieutenant
Reged: 03/26/10
Posts: 522
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: Katrar]
#162564 - 11/23/11 10:21 PM (70.173.25.223)
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ok lets see what i can screw up.
1. Game size. How about any zone that isnt in soi that is over say 1 real week be auto unclaimed. This would cut down on the size of all empires eliminating the walls put up by other empires as well as destroying any hd only zones deep inside another empire. Exclude things like mines. No more 500+ zones in a level 0. no more auto surrender empires making unattackable walls. Make every empire open and level the playing field so all can play instead of those that are walled to hell and cannt be touched without hding on 100+ zones.
2. Abr. It is still needed, and should auto run when combat hasnt occured in x time, say 30 minutes for small units, and like 45 for larger, ie batts, conflicts. Forced abr is where you start getting into the abused areas.
3. Towers. I like most of this one, but should keep the sp low. Greasing a single turret is alot less maintainence then trying to grease a track on a vehicle. At single range, they should crit like a mech, only after the armor is gone. Hit and runs will be the standard for tower killing if it isnt. Most damage can be fixed and even ammo reloaded into a tower if the ammo is availible in the zone in a few minutes.
4.Tanks. I dont agree with the sp increase with a few exceptions. I do think heavier tanks should be droppable. New vehicles or the ability to alter the weapons load on them should be allowed.
5. Mechs. Sp should be based more on the usefulness of the unit. The more useful, the higher the sp. Dp only mechs should have more sp required then their non dp only counterparts need. Idea based on higher weapons/sensor packages in the dp only units. I do like the ability to move some units into a standby area, this is highly abusable, since alot of older players/empires have mech only forces, so this would mean you may never find bv in an empire, or allow them to drop when ever they felt like it. Maybe make it a small percentage of your bv. This will make sure the level 2 with an assault mech in it, could have their mech found and engaged without an attacker having to take cities of 500+ pop.
Soi should autobuy non city zones in an area if they are not newly aquired in x time, like 1 real month.
Mech Market should not have their prices set by the ore prices. Player made mechs can charge whatever they want, if nasi doesnt drop the player variants. The Market should drop mechs that are purchased more often then those that havent sold a unit in years.
The loss of buildings is a pain, but should remain where they are at. If nothing else, the larger and more damaging the battle, the more buildings should be damaged/destroyed.
The off world option I like, but too abusable from mech only empires, ie elite lw.
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MatthewAce
Captain
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Neveron
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: ghostrider]
#162572 - 11/24/11 08:32 AM (220.255.2.27)
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I like what ghostrider had just come up with.
As for getting worked up over paragraphs... I meant it in a humorous way - but I do mean my point about paragraphs making it better for putting your point across. Chillax all. 
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Urbies are good.
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ghostrider
Lieutenant
Reged: 03/26/10
Posts: 522
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: MatthewAce]
#162577 - 11/24/11 12:30 PM (70.173.25.223)
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Most of the people complaining about tanks seem to have hd only empires. Once they have no walls in their empires and anyone can attack them by land, they will stop whining about tanks and maybe see a few of them change their opinions of the towers. There will be a few exceptions to this.
Some people have cities inside the cores of other peoples empires. Make these cities cost even more to operate and maybe even have them cost sp since they would need to have everything shipped in, even if it is in a freindly/allied empire. This would be true for the single zones out in the ocean as well.
If you limit the amount of defenders can have, you should reduce the amount an attacker can bring. Most say that the 216 defenders requires more attacking forces to compensate. Most of this seems to be from people that dont like getting the paint scratched on their mechs, and definately do not want even a single loss. As they tell others when they complain, its a war game. I would guess that means losses to both sides.
I believe that if it didnt take forever to recover from war, most would be more willing to lose a few things then they are now. Problem with this, is it is tooo easy to build large empires, or so the arguement goes. It is too easy to build large empires if you are part of the leading alliance. If you arent, then you are the target for everyone with that size empire in the game.
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1812
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: ghostrider]
#162582 - 11/24/11 07:54 PM (173.168.109.130)
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lol well most of the time im typing without even looking at the screen? just to for mattewace ill try to lmao para phrase while i type lol. no my main complaint is about not having balance. which we dont have in this game. nerf idf what are you giving me in return?
nerf total amount of units in zones what are you giving me in return? all i hear is easy ways to rape larger empires. dont blame the players for their empire setups blame that double digit randy and wws, for all the changes they made? l8rs DABOSS
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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ghostrider
Lieutenant
Reged: 03/26/10
Posts: 522
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: cbtgod]
#162583 - 11/24/11 08:52 PM (70.173.25.223)
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from alot of the people screaming they want mech on mech combat, very few of them actually defend zones, especially in the lower levels. most are hd tented, and refuse to hit people that they KNOW have the same set up. They know who has the mech bv they want, but will not risk their forces trying to get the battle they want. Most dont want the opponent to have anyone on at the time, because that means they will actually have to risk getting hurt.
Now that the market is working a little better, people might actually buy more mechs since they are a little more affordable. Thanks to all those who can build them for lowering the prices.
To get more battles going, I suggest limiting the max skill at 0 and making it a little easier to get there. More people will have a better chance fighting if they are more even, plus more willing to risk losing a pilot if it didnt take a minor miracle to get the pilot past 3 to begin with.
Idf and multi range towers would have to go at the same time. That would also include upgrades as well, since they are all interrelated.
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1312
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: ghostrider]
#162585 - 11/24/11 11:28 PM (76.28.186.150)
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Who exactly are you talking about, ghostrider? Given there are so few people playing this game any longer, and given there are so few of them actually participating in any of these conversations, in any way shape or form, the pool of people you are calling "mostly" hypocrites is pretty small. And includes among others, me.
Honestly, it would help if you would just come out and say who you think is being hypocritical in wanting some fundamental changes to combat. Most of the people I have seen speak out in favor not only don't fit the description you have given, but they don't even actively war at all - and haven't for years - primarily because of the craptastic tankfest that Neveron is today.
Once upon a time, on Neveron, things were different.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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MatthewAce
Captain
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Neveron
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: ghostrider]
#162586 - 11/25/11 03:29 AM (220.255.2.20)
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Quote:
To get more battles going, I suggest limiting the max skill at 0 and making it a little easier to get there. More people will have a better chance fighting if they are more even, plus more willing to risk losing a pilot if it didnt take a minor miracle to get the pilot past 3 to begin with.
Adding to this, I was thinking what if soldiers starts at skill 7 in all aspect instead of how we have it now (skill 8). BV will remain unaltered.
Other than that, the thing about loss is that they are not easy to replace, especially mechs - even the cheaper varieties.
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Urbies are good.
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1312
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: MatthewAce]
#162587 - 11/25/11 09:51 AM (76.28.186.150)
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Quote:
Quote:
To get more battles going, I suggest limiting the max skill at 0 and making it a little easier to get there. More people will have a better chance fighting if they are more even, plus more willing to risk losing a pilot if it didnt take a minor miracle to get the pilot past 3 to begin with.
Adding to this, I was thinking what if soldiers starts at skill 7 in all aspect instead of how we have it now (skill 8). BV will remain unaltered.
Other than that, the thing about loss is that they are not easy to replace, especially mechs - even the cheaper varieties.
There could be good argument for going even further. Make all new tank crews skill 6, or even 5. Basic combat training. There's that pool of "volunteers" that every empire accumulates. Perhaps that could be name changed to "conscripts" and it is assumed that they have gone through basic training and are ready to be put into the game. A skill 5 unit can at least shoot in ideal situations, and in large numbers can be useful.
But yeah, skill 8... I'm not sure it brings anything positive to the game or has any reason obvious benefit. Same with skill 7... its still an effectively useless unit. Skill 6 is getting there, but skill 5 is where crappy meets (very) marginally useful.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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ghostrider
Lieutenant
Reged: 03/26/10
Posts: 522
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: Katrar]
#162588 - 11/25/11 11:34 AM (70.173.25.223)
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Dont know if it was people pulling yanking my chains katrar, but in chat, and even the way some people have posted here, have given me this impression. It is more then possible that I have misinterperated it. Sorry to any if you feel I am directing this at you.
There is one good thing about a skill 8. In the lower empires, they are good in stealth towers to avoid any un needed bv in them. With the above suggestions you could say that certain people would fail the admissions exam if they could not get atleast a certain skill level. Call it basic training.
This might even help with people that actually defend their zones.
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MatthewAce
Captain
Reged: 06/25/04
Posts: 774
Loc: Neveron
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: Katrar]
#162592 - 11/26/11 04:40 AM (220.255.2.51)
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Quote:
There could be good argument for going even further. Make all new tank crews skill 6, or even 5. Basic combat training. There's that pool of "volunteers" that every empire accumulates. Perhaps that could be name changed to "conscripts" and it is assumed that they have gone through basic training and are ready to be put into the game. A skill 5 unit can at least shoot in ideal situations, and in large numbers can be useful.
But yeah, skill 8... I'm not sure it brings anything positive to the game or has any reason obvious benefit. Same with skill 7... its still an effectively useless unit. Skill 6 is getting there, but skill 5 is where crappy meets (very) marginally useful.
Quote:
There is one good thing about a skill 8. In the lower empires, they are good in stealth towers to avoid any un needed bv in them. With the above suggestions you could say that certain people would fail the admissions exam if they could not get atleast a certain skill level. Call it basic training.
This might even help with people that actually defend their zones.
Maybe it can even be a function based off empire size? I.E. Lower level empires gets greener soldiers.
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Urbies are good.
Edited by MatthewAce (11/26/11 04:42 AM)
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Pimpslap
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/13/03
Posts: 365
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: ghostrider]
#162612 - 11/29/11 02:03 PM (12.171.57.50)
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1. Your mixing up issues. Game size is more about how over sized empires have become. Every zone, every soldier every hex is stored.
2. The problem with ABR is that its used to completely bypass player on player combat. The point of vastly limited ABR was to get back to people fighting REAL people, not AI.
The goal is getting combat back to a manageable level that is FUN. Spending days to take a city is not fun for the attacker or the defender. Combat should be more back and forth with alot of piloted conflicts happening. Not just people tossing vehicles at cities to see if ABR can take it. Putting limits on garrison and making defense more vehicle based. Limiting loss of city infra when it changes hands. These are all ways to encourage ACTIVE combat, with people fighting each other, instead of AI.
People do not mind as much when they lose, when they have a chance to fight. But it sucks to lose when your losing to AI.
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Harbingers of Chaos
COME WAR WITH US!!
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Pimpslap
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/13/03
Posts: 365
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Re: Combat Changes
[Re: Pimpslap]
#163751 - 02/06/12 12:34 PM (12.171.57.50)
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Bump. If you want ways to limit amount, and FIX the game, try something like this.
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Harbingers of Chaos
COME WAR WITH US!!
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