Maghetti123
Sergeant Major
Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 203
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Fancy new Speed bump and Forced ABR System
#162912 - 12/20/11 11:46 PM (184.1.118.183)
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This idea was developed between me and Dee. Forced ABR was a system brought into the game because hunting for stealth towers was boring. It made since to get rid of them at the time, but we have since discovered a few problems with the change. For one, smaller empires can't possibly have the forces to control space. If a lvl 3 has a good army they will have very little to prevent forced abr. The other problem, a problem we see in every major war, including the recent SGS vs JGL war, is that you get stuck running in circles, taking hundreds of undefended zones, which is responded to by the enemy taking hundreds of zones right back, and so on. This is either just as boring as speed bumps hunting or worse. But we got a solution that is the best of both worlds
We keep forced abr, but we put a delay on it, for say 10 minutes before it can be used. This means the attacker is not forced to kill the tiny invisible tower hidden in the zone, yet it still gives the defender a delay in that zone falling, allowing them to respond and control space.
Also, for undefended zones you, you apply the land transit time for the attacking units to cross that zone into the next zone before they are able to attack the next zone. So, if a hunter attacks a zone it would take approximately 50-60 nev minutes before that hunter could attack the next zone. This creates a small delay, but not a significant delay to give the defended a chance to react. The transit time would also be applied to forced abred zones. So, say, if you force abr after 10 minutes, you have to wait the extra 50 nev minutes before you can take the next zone.
This effectively allows defending empires to react to attacks, without all the hassle of hunting down lone stealth towers. Also, with the unit caps as they are, this heavily benefits smaller empires while barely effecting larger empires. A empire with 8k combat units cannot afford to have a bunch of stealth towers, where a tiny empire that currently has no way to control space suddenly does. The only thing I have not figured out, and I could use some input here is what to do with the zone in the period of transit time. Does the defending empire keep control and act as a unresolved battle or does the attacking empire get the zone? Perhaps the defending empire keeps control, but any units moved to the zone in the 50 nev minutes get pushed out to the nearest zone. Give me your thoughts.
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DeathStar
Corporal
Reged: 02/05/11
Posts: 59
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Re: Fancy new Speed bump and Forced ABR System
[Re: Maghetti123]
#162913 - 12/20/11 11:52 PM (74.196.239.46)
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the old "a battle is currently underway" message should apply if trying to attack from an adjacent zone or hotdrop.
Units shipped to the zone are moved to closest adjacent zone.
And I like the idea.
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buc
Captain
Reged: 08/12/05
Posts: 710
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Re: Fancy new Speed bump and Forced ABR System
[Re: DeathStar]
#162916 - 12/21/11 02:25 AM (222.153.236.231)
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Yeah, I was pushing for 30 RL min, but tbh, 1 nev hour (6 RL mins) would be a fine delay per zone. Could make it 1 nev hour per zone regardless of if there is BV or not? Or does that defeat the purpose. Yeah, just for ABR
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Maghetti123
Sergeant Major
Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 203
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Re: Fancy new Speed bump and Forced ABR System
[Re: buc]
#162918 - 12/21/11 02:38 AM (184.1.118.183)
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It is 1 nev hour per zone if it is undefended, buc. If it is defended, you have 10 minutes where you cannot force abr + the 1 nev hour.
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Protege
Corporal
Reged: 04/19/06
Posts: 71
Loc: Bakore Village
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Re: Fancy new Speed bump and Forced ABR System
[Re: Maghetti123]
#162920 - 12/21/11 04:43 AM (65.87.44.157)
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Hey Mags. in order to free up some server space and reduce lag, how about you DELETE your level 0 empire with 9,324 zones? This "lag suxors and the DB is full" whining from both players AND SM is getting tiresome.
--------------------
I've stopped being nice? When the hell did I ever START being nice?
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Maghetti123
Sergeant Major
Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 203
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Re: Fancy new Speed bump and Forced ABR System
[Re: Protege]
#162924 - 12/21/11 04:53 AM (184.1.118.183)
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>.> I have no such empire.
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TRK
Sergeant Major
Reged: 11/05/02
Posts: 254
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Re: Fancy new Speed bump and Forced ABR System
[Re: Maghetti123]
#162934 - 12/21/11 09:18 AM (208.118.89.26)
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Even if you scedule an empire for deletion, I dont think it actually happens.
I want to make sure I understand how this will work. Lets look at a lower level war. A lvl 3 has actually consolidated his infra and has actual defences. Around his "main area" he has stealth towers, lets say 5 zones deep. So, an attacking empire (whether the defender is online or not) is going to take a minimum of 16RL mins per zone. 5 zone deep works out to 80 minutes.
I would personally prefer to jab my eye out with a fork than spend an hour and a half to get to anything good.
As for the transit time, I think that is a good idea, but should be based on speed of the unit, not a fixed amount. Hexes are supposedly 30m accross? Not accounting for terrain (that may get messy), 100 hexes is 3000m. An hour to travel 3 kilcks seems a bit slow.
Sorry, but I think the wait time should be shortened. Perhaps have a level based variant on the 10min wait time?
It does sound like a great idea though and could make war possibly fun again for both parties. Delaying the attacker (but not so much they want to logoff and go play checkers) but still allow the defender half a chance. AND make speed bumps viable again.
As an after thought, give empires the option to turn off or on like CFs? I could see this possibly bogging down war if two active parties are involved.
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Maghetti123
Sergeant Major
Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 203
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Re: Fancy new Speed bump and Forced ABR System
[Re: TRK]
#162936 - 12/21/11 09:37 AM (184.1.118.183)
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Well, the time spent clearing these zones would be quicker if you actually killed the stealth towers. If you had a mech with good sensors(this is what otts and ravens used to be used for) you can quickly sweep over a stealth tower. This would still benefit people who are active in clearing zones over those who wait around. I am open to different time rates of course.
The travel time numbers I used was for a hunter to do it. The time would already be different for different speeds.
That sort of option would be difficult, as a defender for example could turn off the option when it benefited them. And actually, though there is a period of bogged downness in the beginning, in general it establishes actual battles. If a attacker is clearing land and establishing himself in an area, the defender can respond by meeting them in the open, leading to more battles rather than sieges.
Small empires cannot afford as many stealth towers as a bigger empire. Having a row of 5 would be possible but would limit the bv to much. Plus, there are tactics around this sort of thing, like high quality sensor mechs, or forces in general good for clearing stealth towers, cutting directly to a city and then expanding outward, or HDing next to a city and having the first location captured be the most critical, etc.
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TRK
Sergeant Major
Reged: 11/05/02
Posts: 254
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Re: Fancy new Speed bump and Forced ABR System
[Re: Maghetti123]
#162952 - 12/21/11 03:11 PM (173.181.67.112)
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Good points, thanks for bringing that to light.
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ghostrider
Lieutenant
Reged: 03/26/10
Posts: 522
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Re: Fancy new Speed bump and Forced ABR System
[Re: TRK]
#162960 - 12/21/11 10:38 PM (70.173.25.223)
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the timing is gonna be difficult to get set. Consider an snp moving thru heavy wooded area with terrain level differences of 3+. It may not actually be able to move thru the zone.
Maybe set the time it takes before abr starts by using the bv difference in the zones. Attacker has higher bv then the tower, it takes a shorter time. The tower has more bv, then it takes longer.
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Maghetti123
Sergeant Major
Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 203
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Re: Fancy new Speed bump and Forced ABR System
[Re: ghostrider]
#162961 - 12/21/11 11:19 PM (184.1.118.183)
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The movement system already exists ghostrider. When you send a unit into transit over land it ignores terrain, we can do the same thing here.
This is forced abr we are talking about. Right now it can be triggered instantly, we're talking about putting it on a timer. Regular 30 minute abr is fine how it is.
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TRK
Sergeant Major
Reged: 11/05/02
Posts: 254
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Re: Fancy new Speed bump and Forced ABR System
[Re: Maghetti123]
#163023 - 12/23/11 09:20 AM (173.181.67.112)
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Having out of battle movement based on terrain is just going to cause other issues, one of which we know about, large databases full of useless terrain generation.
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