Protege
Corporal
Reged: 04/19/06
Posts: 71
Loc: Bakore Village
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What would it take to get me donating again?
#164200 - 02/19/12 07:21 PM (65.87.39.230)
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I was recently asked by someone who will remain unnamed what it would take for me to resume donating and start to support Neveron again.
I will admit, the first thought that caroomed across my brain was a string of obscenities not heard since the Elder Dark gods crawled from hell. But after a moment, I decided that instead I would think about it at length and get back to said person. So, (you know who you are!) here is my response, in order.
1: Cut the new training costs by a factor of five.
I actually like and approve of the new system. I hate the implementation and economy-raping costs that came with it. I personally lost close to 2 BILLION on units I had placed in training before it went active. They didn't get to keep the skills, and I lost the cash.
2: Reconfigure and then re-institute building degradation.
Another idea I agreed on the principal with. Another idea that was simply Shadowmaster's Band-Aid fix for Wayward Son's Band-Aid fix for Randy's Band-Aid fix because his latest Band-Aid fix of his previous Band-Aid fix of a Band-Aid fix that was supposed to fix his FIRST Band-Aid fix (no, I didn't just make that up: it can all be traced back to that many changes for a simple mistake) is just that: another Band-Aid fix. By changing the way, frequency, and CF of the degradation, it works out great:
Each empire gets a 1 in 100 chance of being hit every 12 hours.
If hit, 1 in 100 zones gets hit.
Each zone that gets hit gets a 1 in 100 chance to damage a building.
Each building hit gets 2 CF taken off.
This simulates storms, earthquakes, lightning strikes, car accidents, and other "non- wear and tear" damage (because wear and tear is SUPPOSED to be covered under Administration Costs).
3: I want the morale bonus and 100 ton drawing we were promised.
Nothing says "I want to work with you" like following through on your own word.
4: Announce a set date in the immediate future for the following 4 items.
Let us know WHEN you are about to do something in advance so we don't get caught with our mech pants down.
5: Give each empire a Nev-year worth of income at the NEW rate one real day AFTER training has been adjusted down.
This goes hand in hand with the next three points. It doesn't even begin to cover lost skills and money from the training debacle (I understand the code was broke, but that is not the players fault), but it's better than saying to your player base "You're screwed. I screwed you. Deal with it."
6: Turn off war for two weeks.
Needed for the next points to work.
7: As soon as war is turned off, disable all range multipliers for towers.
At the same time, set the maintenance rate on them back to normal rate. Allow all empires to decom their towers and put new ones in to cover the loss of the old one's effectiveness. Takes care of your multi-range tower issue and allows for people not to get screwed during the reset. An incentive may also be to constantly speed up the tower building speed program so that towers build faster.
8: Change all IDF weapons to A/C Mk IV weapons.
Allow each of them to fire 3 hexes further with no minimums, and weighs one quarter less.. The Sniper becomes LRM 10 with two A/C 2 Mk IV, the Riposte has an A/C5 Mk IV, etc. Simply convert the research, weapons, and name over in the database and DING! Change is done, no one loses anything, and IDF is gone.
9: About a week after war restarts: RUN THE INACTIVE/ABANDONED EMPIRE PROGRAM!
Free up some space, both on the servers and on the maps. Give us something to fight over besides "He said, she said". Make sure you announce it a week in advance. Another idea is to send out a mass e-mail to all registered e-mails informing them you will be running the program, and if you want to reclaim your abandoned empire, you have 1 week to do so (might encourage a few old players to at least come look and maybe start playing again).
10: Fix the proposed unit caps to something more realistic.
A level 0 should need no more than 36 units.
Level 1: 60 Units
Level 2: 100 Units
Level 3: 167 Units
Level 4: 279 Units
Level 5: 466 Units
Level 6: 778 Units
Level 7: 1300 Units
Level 8: 2170 Units
Level 9: 3624 Units
Level 10: 6052 Units
Level 11: 10107 Units
Level 12: 16878 Units
Level 13: 28186 Units
Simple math: The unit level is 1.67 times higher than the level below it. High level empires won't be able to afford that many units unless they are all junk tanks, but it keeps the units growth in line with the empire pop/land size growth.
Will these changes be universally loved and bring harmony back to the game forever? No. Are they a damn sight better than what we currently have? Probably. Make up your own mind, support your choices, voice your displeasure, whatever. It's civil, it's intelligent, well thought out, and any discourse should be the same. So there's my answer on what it will take to get me donating again.
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I've stopped being nice? When the hell did I ever START being nice?
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buc
Captain
Reged: 08/12/05
Posts: 710
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: Protege]
#164202 - 02/19/12 08:03 PM (210.86.1.168)
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Quote:
Nothing says "I want to work with you" like following through on your own word.
And nothing says "I like to spit in your drink" like constantly not following through on your own word.
I've spent the last year (or more) along side Mags and mattbuck etc, constantly discussing things with SM. Numerous lists of changes we'd like to see etc etc just like this one. The end result is always that SM will do whatever he wants to do, and that endless discusson and lists and wants and desires do no good.
Quote:
Let us know WHEN you are about to do something in advance so we don't get caught with our mech pants down.
An example of him not following through with what he has said in the past.
Other than that, I like your list 
Edited by buc (02/19/12 08:04 PM)
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frui
Newbie
Reged: 06/11/03
Posts: 18
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: buc]
#164206 - 02/20/12 05:29 AM (81.149.234.65)
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I like your ideas and see alot of good that will come from it but have teh following comments:
1. Training is very good in principle and I agree, the numbers do need to be tweeked and also the skill up program needs to be ran less frequent - say once per nev year rather than every day. Heck you can drive.... do you forget every day how to do it..... probably not but in my opinion, if you were to retake your test you would fail and would need training on it again ( i know i would) and thats how this should be treated.
2. Degredation - I like your formula, its alot more realistic and works better.
3. This NEEDS to be actioned now to show people that SM is still listening and does care about the player base he has. To do this:
- Just run a script to add x100 morale on every empire on said login that donated (i know SM has the donation info and can do this)
- Put everyones login that donated in a hat (from he list above) and pull one out then give them the free mech of their choice (nemisis or stone rhino probably)
4, 6, 7 & 8 - Should be actioned NOW.... new players can NOT build x2 and x3 range towers and are therefore at a disadvantage straight away. With regards to IDF, this will once again win on the battlefield and needs to be removed. You also need to reset mech upgrades in conjunction with this.
5. Not so sure on this one. I can see your point but to give everyone x 1 year income could harm some empires who are in negative income due to mob, land admin, training etc....
9. Just run the program, I have set empires as abandoned months ago and they are still waiting to be deleted.
10. Unit Caps - the only downside is your unit caps - they are way out... a level 12 / 13 can run on approx 7500 units, I know because I am doing it so make it more along the lines of:
level 0: 10 units
Level 1: 20 Units
Level 2: 30 Units
Level 3: 40 Units
Level 4: 50 Units
Level 5: 100 Units
Level 6: 200 Units
Level 7: 350 Units
Level 8: 600 Units
Level 9: 1200 Units
Level 10: 2800 Units
Level 11: 4000 Units
Level 12: 7000 Units
Also remove the vehicle market from the unit caps - but set it so that you cannot remove vehicles from the market or buy them yourself, instead they have to be bought by a 3rd party thus making production viable again.
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Cheers
Frui
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dieaready
Corporal
Reged: 11/15/05
Posts: 74
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: frui]
#164207 - 02/20/12 05:58 AM (60.241.43.86)
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Whats with all the hate on IDF? I think it is fine as it is, now that 2x and 3x tower ranges is removed and skillups happening, most IDF won't be able to hit much in the not too distant future...
BTW Frui, your amount of units for the lower levels is ridiculously low. With those numbers low level empires cannot afford to have trainers. I'd think a good amount of units for a lvl 3 to 5 would be around 72 for a lvl 3 to 144 for a lvl 5.
For turning off war for 2 weeks, I'd think it would need to be longer than that. Maybe 1 month before the turn off, it is announced giving time for empires to research new towers. Then when war is turned off, people will have plenty of time to replace towers. Key thing is to give us a lot of time to prepare for new changes if not the rage generator will be set on max.
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In the land of the Insane, the Sane man is Crazy.
If Brute Force does not work, you are not using enough.
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frui
Newbie
Reged: 06/11/03
Posts: 18
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: dieaready]
#164208 - 02/20/12 06:04 AM (81.149.234.65)
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Dieaready, i see what your saying but why should a level 3 need 50 training units. At the end of the day, a unit is a unit and can be used in war if needed. If every level 3 was granted 50 unit for training then they would all use normal units.
Perhaps code in a training unit that cannot be used in war at all but costs to buy and the maint costs are more also mechs placed in the stable should be removed from unit cap figures as they are for arenas only
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Cheers
Frui
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Rodon
Sergeant
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 146
Loc: Augusta, Ga
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: frui]
#164209 - 02/20/12 06:15 AM (68.47.52.133)
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5K in dp as promised, a public appology, repair the damage he has intentionally done to large empires, his head on a platter? Never mind, none of it will ever happen.
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Protege
Corporal
Reged: 04/19/06
Posts: 71
Loc: Bakore Village
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: dieaready]
#164210 - 02/20/12 06:41 AM (65.87.39.230)
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IDF was a Band-Aid on a Band-Aid. People complained about the DP only mechs that could outrange the towers and vehicles, so Randy gave them tower range multipliers. Later, people complained about tower range multipliers killing their DP mech, so Randy coded IDF to hit them. Eliminate both at the same time, and as a bonus Shadowmaster gets HIS stated desire to return Nev to something closer to Classic BatteTech. The new A/C Mk IV ranges will do a little to offset the loss, and provide a new way to war.
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I've stopped being nice? When the hell did I ever START being nice?
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frui
Newbie
Reged: 06/11/03
Posts: 18
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: Protege]
#164211 - 02/20/12 07:17 AM (81.149.234.65)
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Rodon, please be constructive and if SM has made you a promise of 5k in DP, then please take that up with him elsewhere
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Cheers
Frui
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: frui]
#164213 - 02/20/12 07:41 AM (72.77.197.22)
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rodon lmao. i dont see a real issue with x1 range idf. be happy you dont have to deal with real idf like arrow 4 etc? this game is very basic tbh. no real units. no real tactics. CBT table top is beyond anything neveron will ever be, or try to even come close to being. this is what neveron lacks for player retention.
nothing added to the game in yrs but more handcuffs? ive had 2 players from my CBT game group give nev a shot both have quit. one due to the way he was talked to in neveron chat. the other one due to the game lacked any real units. no infrantry, no vtols. mechs are all pretty much in the stone age. no new tech added. just more errrrrrrrr handcuffs on our empires. with all types of other games in the works and mechwarrior online coming soon. i see nevs time running out. i wont prob donate anymore its really a waste. next week some thing else will get changed and bend me over again. im still waiting on billions owed for omt for the pop-job bug *ahem* aka lets test the building deg prog. we are still waiting on the bonus mech thing and moral. due to the lack of respect is why i wont donate. and ive talked to SM on the phone and i hate to say i think alot of it went in one ear and out the other. l8rs DABOSS
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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Rodon
Sergeant
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 146
Loc: Augusta, Ga
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: frui]
#164215 - 02/20/12 07:56 AM (68.47.52.133)
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Quote:
Rodon, please be constructive and if SM has made you a promise of 5k in DP, then please take that up with him elsewhere
I tried for a very long time. Always an excuse. All record of the facts have been deleted from my closed ticket log. Donation log vanished. Have dozens of tickets completely ignored. I simply answered the question.
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ShadowMasterCM
Captain
Reged: 12/07/05
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: Rodon]
#164241 - 02/20/12 09:00 PM (24.103.210.226)
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Quote:
I tried for a very long time. Always an excuse. All record of the facts have been deleted from my closed ticket log. Donation log vanished. Have dozens of tickets completely ignored. I simply answered the question.
No records of any facts have been deleted by Neveron.
No donation logs have vanished.
Your lack of understanding the most basic game operations, even after having them explained to you repeatedly is why I stopped answering your impossible to follow random thought tickets. I have tried to contact you outside of the Help Ticket system, in an attempt to resolve your many alleged issues. You refuse to make any efforts to do so.
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Is it true? Do you really suck that bad??
Neveron Promo Code: online gaming rocks
Facebook me!
My Space
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ShadowMasterCM
Captain
Reged: 12/07/05
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: ShadowMasterCM]
#164245 - 02/20/12 09:31 PM (24.103.210.226)
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these comments where originally posted by ghostrider:
Quote:
Problem with idf is the range. With towers going back to normal range, snps will rule the battlefield in all but large mech forces coming after them. They have a range of 36, can shoot over hills. The best range of a level 1 weapon is 24 i believe, the ac 2. A guass rifle is not level 1 tech, neither is the mk weapons. I do think idf can remain in the game, but need a lot of tweeking.
The one problem I have with replacing towers is the skill down program. Have more then a few units in several empires that are new, that have NOT begun to skill down without having it set to bankruptcy mode, that had decent skills in the unit they vacated with. Even the brand new ones havent skilled down yet. I looks like it would take a few real months to get them even half way to where they are now.
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Is it true? Do you really suck that bad??
Neveron Promo Code: online gaming rocks
Facebook me!
My Space
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Phred
Sergeant
Reged: 01/20/12
Posts: 174
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: ShadowMasterCM]
#164299 - 02/21/12 10:44 AM (161.184.189.112)
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Yes, your training program is not working.
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Protege
Corporal
Reged: 04/19/06
Posts: 71
Loc: Bakore Village
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: Phred]
#164866 - 03/18/12 05:41 AM (65.87.50.229)
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By following my policy of keeping my word, I will be donating today. This is because the income vs training cost has been corrected. I will not be donating again until the IDF and tower multis are removed as per outlined above.
SM acted in faith on fixing the cash flow. I will act in faith by showing my support for that issue. He will get no further donation support from me until he addresses the next issue.
This is how to rebuild the player/admin relationship and to be sure that he understands that our donations will be based on game mechanics being fixed for the forseeable future. Once he gets the game to a point that YOU personally are satisfied with, begin donating again regularly. I won't be until everything stated above happens in some manner or another close to what I asked for AND does no further harm to Neveron.
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I've stopped being nice? When the hell did I ever START being nice?
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Rodon
Sergeant
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 146
Loc: Augusta, Ga
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: Protege]
#164871 - 03/18/12 01:43 PM (68.47.22.5)
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Fixed? I am still burning buildings every single RL day to keep out of the red in my level 12 emps. All of my best units skill up, and what skills down is not the skill of the soldier in his role, i.e. driver skills down in gunnery, or vehicle gunner skills down in Infantry. Infantry? My low level emps are set at max training, and day after day nothing skills down. Often despite this level of training the only thing in results are RED.
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Protege
Corporal
Reged: 04/19/06
Posts: 71
Loc: Bakore Village
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: Rodon]
#164872 - 03/18/12 04:24 PM (65.87.58.206)
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Then you must be doing something wrong, Rodon. I am only set to elite and I am constantly skilling down tanks, towers, and mechs in my empires. Sure, some skill up, but for the most part I am getting the skilldowns I expect.
I also never said training ITSELF was fixed: simply the cash issue. Each person will determine their level of support based on what they percieve as good faith and function on Neveron.
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I've stopped being nice? When the hell did I ever START being nice?
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Rodon
Sergeant
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 146
Loc: Augusta, Ga
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: Protege]
#164875 - 03/19/12 04:22 AM (68.47.22.5)
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I am doing something wrong? I had the best balanced empires in the game. Before the current admin took over the game both of them made between 15 and 30 mil a nevday and were #1 and 2 in BV. Both were in the top ten in most categories in the top 100 list.
I have never in my life, (real or game) been in debt. I play several other games, all challenging and nowhere else have I done this mysteriously "wrong" thing. The simple fact is that SM said he would tear down emps over level 10, and is doing just that.
Even at low training I am now loosing more than 30 mil a nevday in one and 2 mil a day in the other. When this began I had between a comapny and a Batt of neg gun assault mechs, now I have none.
While of course the current admin would deny it, I would not be a bit surprised if I have been singled out for destruction as I have repeatedly called him on lie after lie.
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Utopian
Sergeant
Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 147
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: Rodon]
#164878 - 03/19/12 08:07 AM (138.163.0.43)
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Getting back to the original premise of the thread....
1: SOI removed or garrision caps removed/revised
2: Donation system that accepts gift cards
3: Reduction of war costs and/or anything that makes the admin cost of war CHEAPER!
4: PIRATES!
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Neveron: A Story of Blood, Sweat and Beverages or: How I learned to stop worrying about Peel while enjoying my beer
http://mattbuck.irongalaxy.com/neveron/index.html
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Phred
Sergeant
Reged: 01/20/12
Posts: 174
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: Utopian]
#164933 - 03/22/12 04:21 PM (161.184.189.112)
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Never again. Not even a fully functional and fun game would make me send any more moeny to that "person". Was going to use a different word, fill in your own, use your imagination
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Phred
Sergeant
Reged: 01/20/12
Posts: 174
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Re: What would it take to get me donating again?
[Re: Phred]
#164934 - 03/22/12 04:22 PM (161.184.189.112)
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that smiley face looks particularly evil today...
Edited by Phred (03/22/12 04:22 PM)
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