The Clan Invasion Omnis Revisited

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CYBRN4CR
05/12/12 02:35 PM
67.204.151.83

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Hey guys, long time no see!

A lot has happened between my last post and now. I've been hanging around the CBT forums. I've had my hard drive wiped of all my previous designs. I've been playing with a new way to test designs, and I finally managed to play a few actual board games (first with someone else, and several by myself) with the new 25th anniversary edition board game set. Very enlightening. Really makes you consider mech weaknesses and strengths.

So with actual experience under my belt, and a better way to test designs, I would like to see what you guys think of my revisits of the Clan invasion Omnis. If any of them can be improved (variant or whole chassis) I humbly ask for input within the constraints below.

The first thing you might notice is that I finally got the hint with Clan ammo levels. They are now significantly reduced from my previous levels. I decided to normalize all missile ammo except ATMs to one per launcher or less. AC2/5s get one per weapon or less, and AC10/20s GRs and HAG20s get 2 per weapon - with LBXs getting equal cluster and slug ammo. HAG30s and 40s are the only weapons that have an allowance for more ammo (since they don't explode) with 3 tons for HAG30s and up to 5 for HAG40s.

The second thing I did was completely reorganize Clan weapon and equipment logistics. In the canon designs, there never was any real consensus between Narcs, Artemis, or neither. Well, taking a look at Clan philosophy and culture, Narcs would be considered dishonorable for obvious reasons. Even if they were used on a personal basis, they really would only be good with SRMs. So I reallocated them to the second-liners. As for Artemis, that fits in perfectly with Clan warfare, and for only one ton and one crit more, why would you even go without one? All LRM10s LRM15s and LRM20s were given to front-liners with Artemis attached. LRM5s are inefficient with Artemis, so they were given to the second-liners to answer their cries for LRMs. As for SRMs vs Streaks, Streaks always impressed Clan warriors with their ammo-saving ability, so this meant second-liners would get the more flexible, and Narc-capable, SRMs. I try to pretend One-Shots don't exist, and naturally second-liners get the even more dishonorable AIV and accompanying TAG.

This would be the missile scene until ATMs were developed. I tried to make the ATM variants be simple field exchanges for the new launchers in most variants, so that if warriors didn't like the new missiles, they could switch to the familiar LRM variants. Also, I decided that two ammo tons were enough for ATMs without asking for an ammo explosion. Front-liners would get ER and standard ammo, reflecting their need to reach out and touch enemy forces, and second-liners would get standard and HE ammo, giving them upgrade options for the SRMs.

Next in line are the ACs. While there is a lot of flexibility with LBXs, charictaristically I feel Clan warriors (especially Crusaders) would pick Ultra ACs for the extra damage in their trials, even with the 1/36 chance of jamming. So second-liners get the LBXs where they can apply their alternate uses to full effect. UAC2s are the only Ultras that might be among second-line forces for its low damage despite the range.

When HAGs enter the scene, they would replace most of the UAC10 variants and some of the UAC20 and Gauss rifle variants, allowing second-line forces to have variants with heavier UACs and spare gauss rifles for any explosions.

MGs are standard among front and second-liners. When the Smoke Jaguar MGs arrive, front-liners get the light MGs and second-liners get the heavy MGs. When the Arrays arrive, in typical Diamond Shark style, they become available to everyone and upgrade every variant with the appropriate MGs with Arrays.

All energy weapons are standard among front and second-liners except Heavy Lasers which don't become available to second-liners until Plasma Cannons hit the scene.

All remaining equipment is standard among front and second-liners.

The next thing I did with the Omnis was make arms and legs interchangeable to a degree, so that you can simply swap them between mechs that can mount them. An example of this is, say you have the hip and legs from a Mad Dog, a functional Timber Wolf torso and two Hellbringer arms from salvage. With this concept you can merge all three seamlessly to create a working Timber Wolf variant, provided you have the additional weapons to go inside the torso.

This concept is a bit like treating Omnis like frankenmechs, except most of the nuances of frankenmech building are side-stepped for simplicity, and instead revolve around locked crits and armor on the base chassis to determine the ease of swapping limbs. Using the example above, you can swap arms between a Hellbringer and a Timber Wolf because they both are arms with the same level of locked FF and ES. You can do the same with the Mad Dog and Timber Wolf legs, but not the Hellbringer's legs, for the same reason. I also tried to represent this further by having the same armor levels for the legs between similar-looking Omnis if possible.

And finally, I gave naming conventions to all Omnis, with uninterrupted variants from A to H. I tried to give roles to the variants, like A for assault, B for ballistics, brawler, or bombardment, C for city, and D for defense - though this isn't a hard and fast rule, as some variants I simply made to house a new weapon combo that worked. E variants would have the next major upgrade - which typically involve ATMs. F variants involve Plasma Cannons, G variants HAGs, and H variants as you know have Heavy Lasers. For the mechs that have missiles, I generally have the variants that come after 3055 have ATMs by default to show the Clans pushing ATMs as the new standard. Heavy Lasers didn't have as much support in follow-up variants because they demand a lot of heatsink attention and targeting assistance.
N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
CYBRN4CR
05/12/12 03:14 PM
67.204.151.83

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Timber Wolf

The original Timber Wolf base chassis has a 5/8/0 movement profile, 12 tons of FF, ES, and 15 base DHSs, leaving 25.5 tons available for weapons and equipment. My redesign reduces the armor by .5 tons due to what I said about leftover tonnage, and removes the heatsinks from the base to reduce pressure to use them and increase the available tonnage. From there I put most of the ES/FF in the arms to free the side torsos for as much equipment as possible. This move would establish the default heavy mech arm class for quite some time. For the Prime variant, I downgraded the LRMs because I wanted to save the LRM20 variants for the Mad Dog, and I wanted to exchange the ERLLs for more threatening LPLs to allow the Timber Wolf to better compete with the Mad Dog. I also made the close range weapons symmetrical to give the design visual balance.

Code:
Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) (Custom)

Mass: 75 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped Omnimech
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E
Production Year: 3069
Cost: 21,278,906 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,033

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 375 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
33.0 tons of pod space.
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 114 points 4.00
Internal Locations: 1 CT, 2 LA, 2 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 375 19.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Gyro: Standard 4.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 220 11.50
Armor Locations: 1 HD, 2 LA, 2 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 23 38
Center Torso (rear) 7
L/R Torso 16 24
L/R Torso (rear) 7
L/R Arm 12 24
L/R Leg 16 28



================================================================================
Loadout Name: Prime Cost: 24,010,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E BV2: 2,737

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 16(32) 6.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
CASE Locations: LT, RT 0.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser RA 10 2 6.00
ER Medium Laser RA 5 1 1.00
Large Pulse Laser LA 10 2 6.00
ER Medium Laser LA 5 1 1.00
LRM-15 RT 5 2 3.50
Artemis IV FCS RT - 1 1.00
2 ER Small Lasers RT 4 2 1.00
LRM-15 LT 5 2 3.50
Artemis IV FCS LT - 1 1.00
2 ER Small Lasers LT 4 2 1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8) RT - 1 1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 27
5 6 6 4 0 3 0 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SOA, IF 1



"This is HQ to any available units, we have mechs down at Nav Gamma. Bravo Cadet reports four ... on site. Bandits are hostile. I repeat, bandits are hostile." I just had to make this variant. I just had to, for the sake of MW2, and I think I did a pretty good job.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: A Cost: 24,485,781
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E BV2: 2,936

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 16(32) 6.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA
CASE Locations: LT, RT 0.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC RA 15 2 6.00
ER PPC LA 15 2 6.00
LRM-15 RT 5 2 3.50
Artemis IV FCS RT - 1 1.00
ER Medium Laser RT 5 1 1.00
2 Machine Guns RT 0 2 0.50
LRM-15 LT 5 2 3.50
Artemis IV FCS LT - 1 1.00
ER Medium Laser LT 5 1 1.00
2 Machine Guns LT 0 2 0.50
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8) RT - 1 1.00
@MG (1/2) (100) RT - 1 0.50
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8) LT - 1 1.00
@MG (1/2) (100) LT - 1 0.50
Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 29
5 6 5 4 0 3 1 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SOA, IF 1



The Brawler variant of the Timber Wolf. Not too much to say here, pretty standard.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: B Cost: 23,825,156
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E BV2: 2,417

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 14(28) 4.00
CASE Locations: LA, RA 0.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultra AC/10 RA 3 4 10.00
Ultra AC/10 LA 3 4 10.00
2 ER Medium Lasers RT 10 2 2.00
2 ER Medium Lasers LT 10 2 2.00
ER Medium Laser CT 5 1 1.00
@Ultra AC/10 (20) RA - 2 2.00
@Ultra AC/10 (20) LA - 2 2.00
Free Critical Slots: 8

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 24
5 6 6 3 0 3 0 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SOA



This City variant of the Timber Wolf is a hybrid of the Prime and D variants. As I am writing this, I am wondering whether to exchange the SPL for an Active Probe due to it's utility in city environments.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: C Cost: 23,767,188
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E BV2: 2,685

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 14(28) 4.00
CASE Locations: LT, RT 0.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser RA 10 2 6.00
ER Medium Laser RA 5 1 1.00
Large Pulse Laser LA 10 2 6.00
ER Medium Laser LA 5 1 1.00
2 Streak SRM-6s RT 8 4 6.00
2 Streak SRM-6s LT 8 4 6.00
Small Pulse Laser CT 2 1 1.00
@Streak SRM-6 (15) RT - 1 1.00
@Streak SRM-6 (15) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 6

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 27
5 6 6 2 0 3 1 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SOA



I kept the D variant mostly the same as the original, save for making all the Streaks face forward.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: D Cost: 23,973,906
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E BV2: 2,785

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 16(32) 6.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA
CASE Locations: LT, RT 0.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC RA 15 2 6.00
ER PPC LA 15 2 6.00
2 Streak SRM-6s RT 8 4 6.00
2 Streak SRM-6s LT 8 4 6.00
Small Pulse Laser CT 2 1 1.00
@Streak SRM-6 (15) RT - 1 1.00
@Streak SRM-6 (15) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 6

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 28
5 6 6 3 0 3 1 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SOA



The switch from LRM15s with Artemis and ammo to ATM6s with ammo forces two of the ERSLs to become a third ERML in the CT.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: E Cost: 23,479,531
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E BV2: 2,604

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 16(32) 6.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
CASE Locations: LT, RT 0.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser RA 10 2 6.00
ER Medium Laser RA 5 1 1.00
Large Pulse Laser LA 10 2 6.00
ER Medium Laser LA 5 1 1.00
ATM-6 RT 4 3 3.50
ER Small Laser RT 2 1 0.50
ATM-6 LT 4 3 3.50
ER Small Laser LT 2 1 0.50
ER Medium Laser CT 5 1 1.00
@ATM-6 (ER) (10) RT - 1 1.00
@ATM-6 (10) RT - 1 1.00
@ATM-6 (ER) (10) LT - 1 1.00
@ATM-6 (10) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 26
5 6 5 3 0 3 1 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SOA



Unofficially but aptly called the the "Plasma Cat" this variant is at home within a city or out in the open. It keeps the ATMs of the E variant and reworks the torso lasers to fit with the new arm scheme.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: F Cost: 24,064,688
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E BV2: 2,595

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 16(32) 6.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
CASE Locations: LT, RT 0.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plasma Cannon RA 7 1 3.00
Medium Pulse Laser RA 4 1 2.00
Plasma Cannon LA 7 1 3.00
Medium Pulse Laser LA 4 1 2.00
ATM-6 RT 4 3 3.50
Medium Pulse Laser RT 4 1 2.00
ATM-6 LT 4 3 3.50
Medium Pulse Laser LT 4 1 2.00
@Plasma Cannon (10) RA - 1 1.00
@Plasma Cannon (10) LA - 1 1.00
@ATM-6 (ER) (10) RT - 1 1.00
@ATM-6 (10) RT - 1 1.00
@ATM-6 (ER) (10) LT - 1 1.00
@ATM-6 (10) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 26
5 7 6 3 0 3 0 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, HT2, SRCH, ES, SOA



The G variant is interesting. At first I tried going the dual sandblasters route as an upgrade of the B variant, but somewhere down the road I thought of adding a holepuncher to make the sandblasting even more effective. I split the ATM6s into quad ATM3s to fill up crits.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: G Cost: 23,713,594
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E BV2: 2,548

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 13(26) 3.00
CASE Locations: LT, RT, LA 0.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC RA 15 2 6.00
HAG-20 LA 4 6 10.00
2 ATM-3s RT 4 4 3.00
2 ER Small Lasers RT 4 2 1.00
2 ATM-3s LT 4 4 3.00
2 ER Small Lasers LT 4 2 1.00
@ATM-3 (ER) (20) RT - 1 1.00
@ATM-3 (20) RT - 1 1.00
@HAG-20 (12) LT - 2 2.00
@ATM-3 (ER) (20) LT - 1 1.00
@ATM-3 (20) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 25
5 6 5 3 0 3 0 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SOA, FLK 1/1/1



The most heat heavy design so far, with some volly-firing ability. I've yet to make a more effective H variant.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: H Cost: 24,979,063
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E BV2: 2,504

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 14(28) 4.00
CASE Locations: LT, RT 0.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy Large Laser RA 18 3 4.00
Heavy Large Laser LA 18 3 4.00
ATM-12 RT 8 5 7.00
ER Medium Laser RT 5 1 1.00
ATM-12 LT 8 5 7.00
ER Medium Laser LT 5 1 1.00
ECM Suite CT 0 1 1.00
@ATM-12 (ER) (5) RT - 1 1.00
@ATM-12 (5) RT - 1 1.00
@ATM-12 (ER) (5) LT - 1 1.00
@ATM-12 (5) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 25
5 5 4 1 0 3 2 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: OMNI, ECM, CASE, SRCH, ES, SOA



I made the Bounty Hunter's Timber Wolf like the Marauder he left behind - with a tri-gun layout. Coupled with the TC makes all guns dangerous.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: (Bounty Hunter) Cost: 23,272,813
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E BV2: 3,016

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 19(38) 9.00
Heat Sink Locations: 4 LT, 3 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser RA 10 2 6.00
ER Medium Laser RA 5 1 1.00
Large Pulse Laser LA 10 2 6.00
ER Medium Laser LA 5 1 1.00
Targeting Computer RT - 4 4.00
ER PPC LT 15 2 6.00
Free Critical Slots: 1

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 30
5 5 5 4 0 3 0 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: OMNI, ENE, SRCH, ES, SOA



And finally Aidan's Timber Wolf sacrifices the torso lasers and two DHSs of the Prime variant in order to gain a decent jumping ability.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: (Pryde) Cost: 24,410,313
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E BV2: 2,803

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping MP: 4 (Standard)
Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT 4.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 14(28) 4.00
CASE Locations: LT, RT 0.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser RA 10 2 6.00
ER Medium Laser RA 5 1 1.00
Large Pulse Laser LA 10 2 6.00
ER Medium Laser LA 5 1 1.00
LRM-15 RT 5 2 3.50
Artemis IV FCS RT - 1 1.00
LRM-15 LT 5 2 3.50
Artemis IV FCS LT - 1 1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8) RT - 1 1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 5

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 28
5/3j 5 5 4 0 3 0 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: OMNI, CASE, SRCH, ES, SOA, IF 1

N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
CYBRN4CR
05/14/12 04:43 AM
67.204.151.83

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I'd love to chat with you guys about the variants I have here before I continue posting the other 15 omnis. If any variants are outright crap, I want to know now so I can adjust them. Just remember, none of my redesigns are meant to replace the canon designs. What's canon is canon, this is merely my "what if" challenge to take what already exists and redesign them using the constraints above. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
KitK
05/14/12 08:12 AM
70.64.129.30

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I like what you've done with the ATM ammo in that you have set it up for two types, not all three, so that you have to make a choice on which type to load. In my opinion, trying to use all three is a trap that the cannon and custom designs tend to fall into. You may want to think more about how the weapon will be deployed. Its a specialized weapon that needs a specialized role, or else LRMs are better damage producers. Don't over estimate the standard ammo's ability to do damage or the heavy ammo's apparent short range. (see my 2 cents in this thread)

Overall I though some of the ammo loads were a bit light, but that is the Clan way (short furious fights).

Since you're revising, if it were me, I'd use small pulse lasers over MGs for AI (twice the range and -2 to hit). You also might think about the Jade Falcon's AI Gauss rifle.
CYBRN4CR
05/14/12 06:18 PM
67.204.151.83

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Thanks for posting your thoughts! I found your research into the ATM system quite informative.

My thinking for giving Omnis ER and Standard ammo was for three reasons. The first was Standard ammo has the same range bracket as Clan ERMLs and would enhance the threat at those ranges (despite the minimum range). Secondly the ER ammo would give Omnis an extreme range boost to hit targets (and since I play with extreme range rules that gives ER ammo a crazy 36 hex maximum range, albeit at a +6 mod). And finally most of the HE ammo would be shipped to the second-line forces that would normally deploy standard clan SRMs (with or without Artemis) as a useful upgrade option with standard ammo included just to give second-line forces a taste of the "flexibility" of system.

However, your words on the combined power of ATM ammo made me think about whether to include HE ammo along with the system for the vulnerable minimum ranges on later designs as Clan forces discover the need to do so. Since ER ammo is needed for 3/4 of the hexes, Standard 1/6 and HE 1/12 for a fully covered ATM system, would a good ammo loadout be 2 tons ER ammo 1 ton Standard and 1 ton HE if I keep the two tons per launcher theme?

Oh, and the only reason the Alpha variant has MGs and not SPLs is because in the opening video of MW2, Alpha Assault used MGs against the second JF Summoner (ERPPCs against the first and missile racks were still present on the chassis, hence my modifications). I do try to use SPLs most of the time and AP Gausses are currently present on designs that are too light to carry heavier ballistics or are on some JF designs (I'll double check to make sure before I post them).
N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.


Edited by CYBRN4CR (05/14/12 09:19 PM)
KitK
05/15/12 08:36 AM
70.64.129.30

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Quote:

would a good ammo loadout be 2 tons ER ammo 1 ton Standard and 1 ton HE if I keep the two tons per launcher theme?





Personally, no, I don't think so. Reason # uno is explosion. Most would consider that to be a lot of ammo exposure. Though on and ATM 12 it might be feasible since you only get 5 shots per ton. It would be a real liability with an ATM 3 or 6. My second reason is my displeasure with the standard ammo. So reason 2-A, a standard LRM kicks regular ATM ammo's butt. 2-B, there are no instances where regular ammo gives better to hit numbers than ER (if you only take the best odds) and only 3 instances where even odds give you more hitting power. So, if within your role play logistics you want the 2nd line troops to have the least useful ammo, I would ship them the regular ammo and send the ER and HE to the front line.

With ER, you'll rarely be out of range, though you'll rarely inflict huge damage. But its huge range brackets also mean it should give reliable and consistent damage. HE ammo in an ATM 12 should clear a 9 hex buffer the same way an AC20 does - max 36 damage in seven 5-point clusters and one 1-point cluster.

Now, while that's all analytical and good, there is still a very good cultural reason to send the HE to the 2nd line troops - solahma. HE ATMs are great for strikers and short range shock troops, which is exactly where your solahma will be deployed. Replace the uAC20s on a Hunchback IIC with HE ATM12 and sound the solahma charge.

KK

P.S. *KitK takes a moment or silence in memory of Alpha Assault.* He was a brave MechWarrior. If only he had another ton of MG ammo or an extra heatsink...or had just moved!
CYBRN4CR
05/15/12 06:15 PM
67.204.151.83

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Okay! Thanks for the tips! I'll reduce the ammo for 3 and 6 launchers and change to ER/HE combos on all Omnis with ATMs. I might switch some missiles back to LRM/Artemis combos. While I'm making the changes, are there any variant specific issues other than what you already mentioned?

When I return, I'll post the modifications and the Mad Dog next.
N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
KitK
05/16/12 09:21 AM
70.64.129.30

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You don't have to take my ATM theories as authoritative, but I believe you'll get good results. ATMs were advertised as "flexible" but actually they are very specialized. So, they have to match the mech's role. General "upgrading" to ATMs is kind of a farce if one then tries to use them the same way as LRMs.

That's a lot of varients to compare + the originals to see what's changed. Below is a quick laundry list of comments, which may or may not be useful. I do think the pulse laser/LRM15 switches are pretty good moves.

KK

P - An interesting refinement of the original
A - I could have sworn it looked like Alpha Assault had 4 PPC
B – In spite of the explosion and jamming factors, it would be tempting to call for 1 more ton of ammo
C & D – not much difference
E – ATM upgrades discussed already
F – AI variation. This may be one of the more interesting ones. It would definitely not be my first choice for mech vs mech action, but it looks like it could handle all the other ground unit types fairly well.
G – If you switch this one to an ATM ER/HE combo you’re going to end up in a situation where after about 10-14 rounds you’ll have to close to short range or retreat. Maybe go 3ER 1HE. Or all ER and find a way to bump up the HAG ammo by a ton to extend the mech’s long-range role, since this one’s clearly not meant to get in a knife fight anyway.
H – I like the symmetry, but I’ve never been a fan of the redundant system mech.
Bounty – That oughta kill somthin’
Pryde – Same refinement as the P
CrayModerator
05/17/12 06:35 AM
147.160.136.10

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Quote:

You don't have to take my ATM theories as authoritative, but I believe you'll get good results. ATMs were advertised as "flexible" but actually they are very specialized.




Maybe not authoritative, but I agree with your theories.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
CYBRN4CR
05/17/12 12:26 PM
67.204.151.83

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Okay. Here are the modified Timber Wolf variants.

I tweaked the Alpha Assault variant a bit to have two more MGs and one less crit of 1/2 ton ammo to potentially explode, though it has no other place to go except the CT making it critical (but easier with burst fire mode) to use the ammo until it's gone. And yeah, in the movie there are four distinct PPC balls fired, but design-wise it is impractical to have quad PPCs twin LRM 15s and MGs on a 5/8 75t chassis. The heat from the PPCs alone would force a shutdown unless the engine was a 4/6. Only then can one be made with 18 heatsinks 6MGs with a full ton of ammo and one ton of standard ammo for each missile launcher, which would be more accurate to the movie.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: A                                              Cost: 24,617,031
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,929

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             16(32)                    6.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA
    CASE Locations: CT, LT, RT                                             0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC                                       RA        15        2         6.00
ER PPC                                       LA        15        2         6.00
LRM-15                                       RT        5         2         3.50
    Artemis IV FCS                           RT        -         1         1.00
ER Medium Laser                              RT        5         1         1.00
3 Machine Guns                               RT        0         3         0.75
LRM-15                                       LT        5         2         3.50
    Artemis IV FCS                           LT        -         1         1.00
ER Medium Laser                              LT        5         1         1.00
3 Machine Guns                               LT        0         3         0.75
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8)                        RT        -         1         1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8)                        LT        -         1         1.00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              CT        -         1         0.50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0


I decided to leave the B variant as is. 20 rounds per UAC10 may not be enough to last very long, but it's enough for trials, which for the Clans is already enough.

I rethought the C variant to have a barrage of smaller Streaks to increase the chance of missiles firing and have more shots against swarms of smaller targets. This allows more tonnage to be freed for two additional heat sinks, two additional SPLs and an Active Probe like I've been mulling over. These changes should make this variant scary in a city environment.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: C                                              Cost: 23,404,063
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,511

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             16(32)                    6.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
    CASE Locations: RT                                                     0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser                            RA        10        2         6.00
ER Medium Laser                              RA        5         1         1.00
Large Pulse Laser                            LA        10        2         6.00
ER Medium Laser                              LA        5         1         1.00
Small Pulse Laser                            RT        2         1         1.00
4 Streak SRM-2s                              RT        8         4         4.00
Active Probe                                 LT        0         1         1.00
Small Pulse Laser                            LT        2         1         1.00
4 Streak SRM-2s                              LT        8         4         4.00
Small Pulse Laser                            CT        2         1         1.00
@Streak SRM-2 (50)                           RT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0


The same thinking for the city variant applies to the defense variant except for the quick arm and electronics changes. (This variant is open to change if desired).

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: D                                              Cost: 23,610,781
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,752

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             18(36)                    8.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA
    CASE Locations: RT                                                     0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC                                       RA        15        2         6.00
ER PPC                                       LA        15        2         6.00
4 Streak SRM-2s                              RT        8         4         4.00
Small Pulse Laser                            RT        2         1         1.00
4 Streak SRM-2s                              LT        8         4         4.00
Small Pulse Laser                            LT        2         1         1.00
ECM Suite                                    LT        0         1         1.00
Small Pulse Laser                            CT        2         1         1.00
@Streak SRM-2 (50)                           RT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0


The ammo changes for the E variant make the switch even less invasive, with only a single MPL needed to fill the leftover space in the CT.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: E                                              Cost: 23,485,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,579

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             16(32)                    6.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser                            RA        10        2         6.00
ER Medium Laser                              RA        5         1         1.00
Large Pulse Laser                            LA        10        2         6.00
ER Medium Laser                              LA        5         1         1.00
ATM-6                                        RT        4         3         3.50
2 ER Small Lasers                            RT        4         2         1.00
ATM-6                                        LT        4         3         3.50
2 ER Small Lasers                            LT        4         2         1.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           CT        4         1         2.00
@ATM-6 (HE) (10)                             RT        -         1         1.00
@ATM-6 (ER) (10)                             LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0


Since the JFs deploy Timber Wolfs every now and then, this variant returns the AP Gauss flavor of the original while keeping the Plasma focus. I also gave the ATMs HE ammo only to go along with the city focus as you will almost never have the LOS to use ER ammo in a city.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: F                                              Cost: 24,563,438
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,529

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             14(28)                    4.00
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plasma Cannon                                RA        7         1         3.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           RA        4         1         2.00
Plasma Cannon                                LA        7         1         3.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           LA        4         1         2.00
ATM-6                                        RT        4         3         3.50
Medium Pulse Laser                           RT        4         1         2.00
2 AP Gauss Rifles                            RT        2         2         1.00
ATM-6                                        LT        4         3         3.50
Medium Pulse Laser                           LT        4         1         2.00
2 AP Gauss Rifles                            LT        2         2         1.00
Active Probe                                 LT        0         1         1.00
@Plasma Cannon (10)                          RA        -         1         1.00
@Plasma Cannon (10)                          LA        -         1         1.00
@ATM-6 (HE) (10)                             RT        -         1         1.00
@AP Gauss Rifle (40)                         RT        -         1         1.00
@ATM-6 (HE) (10)                             LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 1


Making the ammo changes to the G variant allowed for one more heatsink and an ECM to fit on the chassis.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: G                                              Cost: 24,164,219
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,611

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             14(28)                    4.00
    CASE Locations: LT, RT, LA                                             0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC                                       RA        15        2         6.00
HAG-20                                       LA        4         6        10.00
2 ATM-3s                                     RT        4         4         3.00
2 ER Small Lasers                            RT        4         2         1.00
2 ATM-3s                                     LT        4         4         3.00
2 ER Small Lasers                            LT        4         2         1.00
ECM Suite                                    CT        0         1         1.00
@HAG-20 (6)                                  RT        -         1         1.00
@ATM-3 (ER) (20)                             RT        -         1         1.00
@HAG-20 (6)                                  LT        -         1         1.00
@ATM-3 (ER) (20)                             LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0


I decided to revamp the H variant's torso weapons to make them a bit more useful. This loadout allows for the pilot to fire both HLLs while walking and use the next turn to fire all the remaining weapons walking as well thanks to the addition of two additional heatsinks.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: H                                              Cost: 24,414,688
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,333

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             16(32)                    6.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy Large Laser                            RA        18        3         4.00
Heavy Large Laser                            LA        18        3         4.00
LRM-15                                       RT        5         2         3.50
    Artemis IV FCS                           RT        -         1         1.00
2 Medium Pulse Lasers                        RT        8         2         4.00
LRM-15                                       LT        5         2         3.50
    Artemis IV FCS                           LT        -         1         1.00
2 Medium Pulse Lasers                        LT        8         2         4.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8)                        RT        -         1         1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8)                        LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 1


And finally, while I liked the LPLs of my first submission, I decided to flip the ER/Pulse status of the lasers to give the mech some backup torso weapons in case the arms were shot off.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: (Pryde)                                        Cost: 24,563,438
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,843

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 4  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT                                         4.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             14(28)                    4.00
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Large Laser                               RA        12        1         4.00
ER Large Laser                               LA        12        1         4.00
LRM-15                                       RT        5         2         3.50
    Artemis IV FCS                           RT        -         1         1.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           RT        4         1         2.00
LRM-15                                       LT        5         2         3.50
    Artemis IV FCS                           LT        -         1         1.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           LT        4         1         2.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           CT        4         1         2.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8)                        RT        -         1         1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8)                        LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 6

N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
CYBRN4CR
05/17/12 12:37 PM
67.204.151.83

Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
And here is the Mad Dog. I know I posted a version before on this board with a 4/6 movement profile. This time, I kept the speed the same as the original and added ES while removing one heatsink from the base to max out the armor. This gives the Mad Dog maximum compatibility with the heavier Timber Wolf's limbs. Though actual Frankenmech rules would make exchanging limbs tricky, I tried to keep it simple by limiting exchangeability to placement of ES/FF in the limbs, how heavy and what weight class the limbs are, and how the limbs look as well. Despite these changes, I was able to keep the Prime variant virtually unchanged save for having Artemis for each launcher.

Code:
Vulture (Mad Dog) (Custom)

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped Omnimech
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-E-E
Production Year: 2963
Cost: 13,232,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 919

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    30.0 tons of pod space.
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Overview:
Redesigned by CYBRN4CR


================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    99 points                3.00
    Internal Locations: 1 CT, 2 LA, 2 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             300                       9.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 0 
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 201                 10.50
    Armor Locations: 1 HD, 2 LA, 2 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     20           34        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     14           22        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6        
                                             L/R Arm     10           20      
                                             L/R Leg     14           28        



================================================================================
Loadout Name: Prime                                          Cost: 15,772,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,414

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser                            RA        10        2         6.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           RA        4         1         2.00
Large Pulse Laser                            LA        10        2         6.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           LA        4         1         2.00
LRM-20                                       RT        6         4         5.00
    Artemis IV FCS                           RT        -         1         1.00
LRM-20                                       LT        6         4         5.00
    Artemis IV FCS                           LT        -         1         1.00
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (6)                        RT        -         1         1.00
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (6)                        LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 15


Since Lbxs and regular SRMs were given to the second liners, and I didn't want this variant to be similar to any Timber Wolf variants, I made  this variant a simple exchange of arms of the prime variant - much like my redesigned C and D Timber Wolf variants.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: A                                              Cost: 16,080,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,665

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             15(30)                    4.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LA, 2 RA
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC                                       RA        15        2         6.00
ER PPC                                       LA        15        2         6.00
LRM-20                                       RT        6         4         5.00
    Artemis IV FCS                           RT        -         1         1.00
LRM-20                                       LT        6         4         5.00
    Artemis IV FCS                           LT        -         1         1.00
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (6)                        RT        -         1         1.00
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (6)                        LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 9


I moved the old C variant into the B variant and used the two extra tons to add ERMLs. I might reconsider revamping this variant further as it is still the weakest variant of the Mad Dog.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: B                                              Cost: 14,952,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,311

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    CASE Locations: LA, RA                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gauss Rifle                                  RA        1         6        12.00
Gauss Rifle                                  LA        1         6        12.00
ER Medium Laser                              RT        5         1         1.00
ER Medium Laser                              LT        5         1         1.00
@Gauss Rifle (16)                            RT        -         2         2.00
@Gauss Rifle (16)                            LT        -         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 15


Since my redesign can no longer carry HAG30s in the arms (and that variant sucked anyway due to pathetic ammo levels and no backup weapons) I decided to make the city variant of the Mad Dog have twin UAC20s and a MPL as a ton-for-ton switch from the B variant. Still, I might change it if a better city variant is available. (oh and FYI since all second liners are given LBXs and not allowed to have UACs heavier than UAC2s, guess what happens to the Hunchback IIC? )

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: C                                              Cost: 15,472,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,143

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ultra AC/20                                  RT/RA     7         2/6      12.00
Ultra AC/20                                  LT/LA     7         2/6      12.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           CT        4         1         2.00
@Ultra AC/20 (10)                            RT        -         2         2.00
@Ultra AC/20 (10)                            LT        -         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 12


The D variant is a simple switch from LRMs to Streaks. As I'm writing this, I wonder if it would be better to have a mass array of Streak 2s like I did for the Timber Wolf?

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: D                                              Cost: 15,332,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,404

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser                            RA        10        2         6.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           RA        4         1         2.00
Large Pulse Laser                            LA        10        2         6.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           LA        4         1         2.00
2 Streak SRM-6s                              RT        8         4         6.00
2 Streak SRM-6s                              LT        8         4         6.00
@Streak SRM-6 (15)                           RT        -         1         1.00
@Streak SRM-6 (15)                           LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 17


The E variant is a ton-for-ton, crit-for-crit, heat-for-heat switch from LRM20s with Artemis to ATM9s with two tons of ammo. Thanks to the ATM suggestions, I made them ER/HE combos.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: E                                              Cost: 15,272,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,297

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser                            RA        10        2         6.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           RA        4         1         2.00
Large Pulse Laser                            LA        10        2         6.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           LA        4         1         2.00
ATM-9                                        RT        6         4         5.00
ATM-9                                        LT        6         4         5.00
@ATM-9 (ER) (7)                              RT        -         1         1.00
@ATM-9 (HE) (7)                              RT        -         1         1.00
@ATM-9 (ER) (7)                              LT        -         1         1.00
@ATM-9 (HE) (7)                              LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 15


Following the same path as the Timber Wolf, the F variant has HE ammo for the ATMs and twin Plasma/MPL arms. However, some would remark this variant as looking quite weird with Timber Wolf Lower Arm Actuator arms.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: F                                              Cost: 15,912,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,347

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             15(30)                    4.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plasma Cannon                                RA        7         1         3.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           RA        4         1         2.00
Plasma Cannon                                LA        7         1         3.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           LA        4         1         2.00
ATM-9                                        RT        6         4         5.00
ATM-9                                        LT        6         4         5.00
@Plasma Cannon (10)                          RA        -         1         1.00
@Plasma Cannon (10)                          LA        -         1         1.00
@ATM-9 (HE) (14)                             RT        -         2         2.00
@ATM-9 (HE) (14)                             LT        -         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 5


The G variant is exactly the same as the old F variant except with one more heatsink allowing for all weapons to be fired while running at only 4 overheat - giving this variant potential brawling ability.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: G                                              Cost: 15,696,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,423

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             13(26)                    2.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT
    CASE Locations: LA, RA                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HAG-20                                       RA        4         6        10.00
HAG-20                                       LA        4         6        10.00
2 ER Medium Lasers                           RT        10        2         2.00
2 ER Medium Lasers                           LT        10        2         2.00
@HAG-20 (12)                                 RT        -         2         2.00
@HAG-20 (12)                                 LT        -         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 9


And finally for the H variant, I followed a similar pattern as the Timber Wolf, but this time I kept the ATMs to change it up a little. Again it has Lower Arms like the Timber Wolf, making the switch look weird.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: H                                              Cost: 15,536,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,163

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             17(34)                    6.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
    CASE Locations: LT, RT                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy Large Laser                            RA        18        3         4.00
Heavy Large Laser                            LA        18        3         4.00
ATM-9                                        RT        6         4         5.00
ATM-9                                        LT        6         4         5.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           CT        4         1         2.00
@ATM-9 (ER) (7)                              RT        -         1         1.00
@ATM-9 (HE) (7)                              RT        -         1         1.00
@ATM-9 (ER) (7)                              LT        -         1         1.00
@ATM-9 (HE) (7)                              LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
KitK
05/18/12 07:31 AM
70.64.129.30

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Quote:

Maybe not authoritative, but I agree with your theories.




Thanks Cray.
CYBRN4CR
05/18/12 04:59 PM
67.204.151.83

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If there are any issues with the Timber Wolf tweaks or Mad Dog variants, or if they are okay, let me know so I can move on to the Summoner.
N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
CYBRN4CR
05/19/12 02:37 AM
67.204.151.83

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If these mechs are too similarly themed, I made a set of heavy/medium-light arms that can be used interchangeably. You will see I have already used a few in the designs I posted so far. By offering these arm loadouts, I hope to make the Omnimech idea more interesting and sensible for the Clans (especially for salvage and repair). There are certainly more options that I have not made yet that could be good, and any input from your experiences/designs would be appreciated.

2FF 2ES arm family (so far)

SH+UA
ERPPC 2DHS <famous on Hellbringer/Summoner>
LPL MPL <famous on Mad Dog>
UAC20 (2 crits in local torso) <famous on Summoner/Mad Dog?>
UAC10 2ammo <famous on Summoner/Timber Wolf/Hellbringer>
Gauss rifle <famous on old Mad Dog C variant>
HAG20 <not famous on any one mech but it tries to be present for every G variant>
2ERLLs 2DHSs <not used yet but might be an option>

SH+UA+LA
HLL 1DHS <famous on Timber Wolf>
LPL ERML 1DHS <famous on Timber Wolf>
Plasma Cannon 1ammo MPL 1DHS <famous on Timber Wolf>
ERLL 1DHS (might change to ERLL 2DHS no reason not to) <not famous yet but best fits Timber Wolf, Summoner or Hellbringer>
3MPLs 1DHS <not used on any heavy mechs yet but is used on lighter mechs>

SH+UA+LA+HA
blank <not popular on any mech but is present>
LRM15 w/Art 1ammo <popular on lighter mechs>
ATM6 w/HE ammo <popular on lighter mechs>
Plasma Cannon 1ammo 1DHS <only found on lighter mechs as the variant above is used on heavier mechs>
2HMLs <not used yet but is a potential option for lighter mech H variants>

Oh and I'm sorry if it seems like I'm throwing all this on you guys. It has been so long since I got to talk Battletech with anyone, I can't help but want to share all the ideas I have. I want to have a nice conversation with anyone who wants to participate, and maybe make some friends. But to do so, this can't all be about me and what I'm doing. So how about you guys? What's been on your Battletech minds lately?
N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.


Edited by CYBRN4CR (05/19/12 02:46 PM)
scheinlen
05/19/12 09:33 PM
204.111.95.182

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How about a Mad dog with Jump Jets?
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
scheinlen
05/19/12 09:49 PM
204.111.95.182

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A Mad Cat or a Mad Dog or any other heavy Missile Boat type mech such as these two loose there "Punch" I think with out the missile racks. I believe a commander in the field would have too be in trouble to configure a Mad Dod into a Gause or HAG carring mech configuration. There are other mechs better suited for use as a "Sniper" then those I believe. I Run a Star cluster of clan mechs and would rather use a faster mech for such tactics. But each has there own preferences.

I would like to see someones Ideas on a "Newer" Sagittaire, that is one mech with out a IS or a Clan change...
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
CYBRN4CR
05/20/12 05:00 AM
67.204.151.83

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Quote:

How about a Mad dog with Jump Jets?



That can be arranged.

Quote:

A Mad Cat or a Mad Dog or any other heavy Missile Boat type mech such as these two loose there "Punch" I think with out the missile racks. I believe a commander in the field would have too be in trouble to configure a Mad Dod into a Gause or HAG carring mech configuration. There are other mechs better suited for use as a "Sniper" then those I believe. I Run  a Star cluster of clan mechs and would rather use a faster mech for such tactics. But each has there own preferences.



I hear you and I agree for the gauss variant. It's quite lackluster compared to my new A variant which effectively replaces it. What if I go all out on missiles for that one - even in the arms? That would keep the odd nature of the variant and keep the missile theme of the mech. It wouldn't be good in any extended battle, but it would be great for trials. The HAG variant is actually okay as it still functions like a Mad Dog (long range damage in up to four five point clusters with backup laser weapons) save for having ballistic main weapons instead of missiles.

Quote:

I would like to see someones Ideas on a "Newer" Sagittaire, that is one mech with out a IS or a Clan change...



I took a peek at it and overall it's pretty hard to mess with for an IS city assault mech. Though my personal switch would be to rip out the IS LPLs and ram in Snubs. Leave everything else the same.
N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
scheinlen
05/20/12 08:16 AM
204.111.88.199

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I took a figure and cut off the Small laser, evening out the two shoulder wings. drop the rear laser and replaced the lasers with heavy lasers, a clan ER PPC, plus added clan a EW package. That is my "Clan" C version.
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
CYBRN4CR
05/21/12 10:17 AM
67.204.151.83

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That's cool. What made you want to make a "C" variant of the Sagittaire?

Anyway, here are the changes with the Mad Dog based off the discussion above. With any luck, I should be able to find a use for the newly created LRM rack arm.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: B                                              Cost: 16,456,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,514

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             13(26)                    2.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT
    CASE Locations: LT, RT, LA, RA                                         0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LRM-20                                       RA        6         4         5.00
    Artemis IV FCS                           RA        -         1         1.00
LRM-20                                       LA        6         4         5.00
    Artemis IV FCS                           LA        -         1         1.00
LRM-20                                       RT        6         4         5.00
    Artemis IV FCS                           RT        -         1         1.00
LRM-20                                       LT        6         4         5.00
    Artemis IV FCS                           LT        -         1         1.00
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (6)                        RA        -         1         1.00
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (6)                        LA        -         1         1.00
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (6)                        RT        -         1         1.00
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (6)                        LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 5


The C variant is now based off the Prime, but has to downgrade the LRMs to accommodate the Jump Jets so it can perch itself somewhere nice in a city and fire away.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: C Cost: 15,688,000
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E BV2: 2,529

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jumping MP: 3 (Standard)
Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT 3.00
CASE Locations: LT, RT 0.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser RA 10 2 6.00
Medium Pulse Laser RA 4 1 2.00
Large Pulse Laser LA 10 2 6.00
Medium Pulse Laser LA 4 1 2.00
LRM-15 RT 5 2 3.50
Artemis IV FCS RT - 1 1.00
LRM-15 LT 5 2 3.50
Artemis IV FCS LT - 1 1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8) RT - 1 1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 16

N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
scheinlen
05/21/12 12:35 PM
204.111.98.84

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Now that jump Mad Dog is like the one I run with my 13th Wolf Guard Unit (Wolf In Exile) field 2 trinaries of mechs and a trinary of Elementals (in Assorted Battle armer) I am about 80% made up of jump jet designs. I still need to get a few more of the Star cluster set up with jump jets yet. Such as the Warhawk, Gargoyle, Hellbringers plus the Viper and Cougar. and the Ryoken II is the Tassa Kay design.

As for the Sagitaire, it is the XO's mech for my IS Battlion. (Unit is painted in Kell Hound colors)
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
05/21/12 03:33 PM
173.131.8.119

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I would drop two of the LRM-20s for LRM-15s and add more ammo.

I would bring the ammo up to a total of four tons of LRM-20 ammo and three tons of LRM-15 ammo.

That would give you 12 shots with all of the LRMs

Six shots is not enough to bring down another mech even from 4 LRM-20s.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
scheinlen
05/21/12 08:19 PM
204.111.98.225

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NO, but would be a !@#$ of a FASCOM or Fast scaterable mine layer mech...
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
CYBRN4CR
05/21/12 10:59 PM
67.204.151.83

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Quote:

NO, but would be a !@#$ of a FASCOM or Fast scaterable mine layer mech...




True, but since the Prime through D variants of the 3050 Omnis focus primarily on Clan vs Clan warfare (trials objective raids etc...think MW2) mine-laying would be a rare and dishonorable job description for most Clan warriors.

That being said, I actually like Royal's thoughts on the variant. It would break the standard ammo rules I set for LRMs, but for a virtually all ammo mech intended for trials, it may be allowable if it means the difference between surviving and destruction. The best part about it is, I can use an arm that already exists on lighter mechs instead of having to create a whole new arm and have to find uses for it on mechs that come after it. Though it's kind of interesting to imagine a Mad Dog with hands. Makes it a little like the Archer but with reverse legs.

So here is the finalized B variant.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: B Cost: 16,207,200
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E BV2: 2,449

Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 12(24) 1.00
CASE Locations: LT, RT, LA, RA 0.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H

Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LRM-15 RA 5 2 3.50
Artemis IV FCS RA - 1 1.00
LRM-15 LA 5 2 3.50
Artemis IV FCS LA - 1 1.00
LRM-20 RT 6 4 5.00
Artemis IV FCS RT - 1 1.00
LRM-20 LT 6 4 5.00
Artemis IV FCS LT - 1 1.00
Small Pulse Laser CT 2 1 1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8) RA - 1 1.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8) LA - 1 1.00
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (12) RT - 2 2.00
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (12) LT - 2 2.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 3


Thanks for responding guys! Keep it up, we have 14 more mechs to go! Summoner coming real soon.
N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
CYBRN4CR
05/22/12 02:47 AM
67.204.151.83

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All right guys! Here is the Summoner!

The original Summoner base chassis has a 5/8/5 movement profile, 9.5 tons of FF, and 14 base DHSs, leaving 22.5 tons available for weapons and equipment. My redesign adds ES and removes the hardwired heatsinks to max out the armor and increase the available tonnage. I kept the Prime variant's original heat sinks the same, as well as the general weapon loadout with one ERSL filling in the leftover space. Let me know if a Flamer would be more the JF's style.

Code:
Thor (Summoner) (Custom)

Mass: 70 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped Omnimech
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-E-E
Production Year: 2872
Cost: 19,291,458 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,030

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 350 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    28.0 tons of pod space.
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Overview:
Redesigned by CYBRN4CR


================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                   107 points                3.50
    Internal Locations: 1 CT, 2 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             350                      15.00
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 5 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   5.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               4.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 217                 11.50
    Armor Locations: 1 HD, 2 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     22           38        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     15           24        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6        
                                             L/R Arm     11           22      
                                             L/R Leg     15           30        



================================================================================
Loadout Name: Prime                                          Cost: 21,480,740
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,655

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 5  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   0.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             14(28)                    4.00
    CASE Locations: LT, LA                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC                                       RA        15        2         6.00
Ultra AC/10                                  LA        3         4        10.00
ER Small Laser                               RT        2         1         0.50
LRM-15                                       LT        5         2         3.50
    Artemis IV FCS                           LT        -         1         1.00
@Ultra AC/10 (20)                            LA        -         2         2.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8)                        LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 7


The Assault variant is a simple exchange of the arm and missile launcher of the Prime variant with an additional ERSL added.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: A                                              Cost: 21,458,958
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,549

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 5  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   0.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             14(28)                    4.00
    CASE Locations: LT, LA                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Large Laser                               RA        12        1         4.00
Ultra AC/10                                  LA        3         4        10.00
2 ER Small Lasers                            RT        4         2         1.00
LRM-20                                       LT        6         4         5.00
    Artemis IV FCS                           LT        -         1         1.00
@Ultra AC/10 (20)                            LA        -         2         2.00
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (6)                        LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 4


Based off the old A variant, the Ballistic variant keeps the theme but with a Timber Wolf LPL/ERML arm, and a Streak 6 launcher instead - giving two tons of ammo to the gauss rifle. Since this variant is heat neutral while running, the leftover two tons went to quad A-pods on the legs like the upcoming Hellbringer Prime.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: B                                              Cost: 20,971,271
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,630

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 5  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   0.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
    CASE Locations: LT, LA                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser                            RA        10        2         6.00
ER Medium Laser                              RA        5         1         1.00
Gauss Rifle                                  LA        1         6        12.00
Streak SRM-6                                 LT        4         2         3.00
2 A-Pods                                     RL        0         2         1.00
2 A-Pods                                     LL        0         2         1.00
@Gauss Rifle (16)                            RT        -         2         2.00
@Streak SRM-6 (15)                           LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 7


The City variant is virtually the same as the old C variant save for the ERLL and ERSL have been compressed into an ERPPC.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: C                                              Cost: 21,361,208
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,623

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 5  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   0.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             14(28)                    4.00
    CASE Locations: LT                                                     0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC                                       RA        15        2         6.00
Ultra AC/20                                  LT/LA     7         2/6      12.00
Streak SRM-6                                 LT        4         2         3.00
@Ultra AC/20 (10)                            LT        -         2         2.00
@Streak SRM-6 (15)                           LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 5


This variant mirrors the Defense variant of the Timber Wolf with the mass Streak 2s for the Elemental or infantry raid, and dual LPL/ERML arms for reduced dependence on ammo. It may not have the SPLs or AP/ECM but it does have Jump Jets so watch out.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: D                                              Cost: 20,795,958
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-E-E                         BV2: 2,704

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 5  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   0.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             16(32)                    6.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
    CASE Locations: LT                                                     0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser                            RA        10        2         6.00
ER Medium Laser                              RA        5         1         1.00
Large Pulse Laser                            LA        10        2         6.00
ER Medium Laser                              LA        5         1         1.00
7 Streak SRM-2s                              LT        14        7         7.00
@Streak SRM-2 (50)                           LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0


The Enhanced variant replaces the LRM, ERSL, and one heatsink with an ATM9 with ER and HE ammo.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: E                                              Cost: 21,337,833
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,602

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 5  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   0.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             13(26)                    3.00
    CASE Locations: LT, LA                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC                                       RA        15        2         6.00
Ultra AC/10                                  LA        3         4        10.00
ATM-9                                        LT        6         4         5.00
@Ultra AC/10 (20)                            LA        -         2         2.00
@ATM-9 (ER) (7)                              LT        -         1         1.00
@ATM-9 (HE) (7)                              LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 8


Like all heavy mech Fire variants, this variant is no different with dual Plasma/MPL arms and an ATM with HE ammo. Out of necessity, the Falcons added the Active Probe.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: F                                              Cost: 22,134,708
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,690

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 5  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   0.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             16(32)                    6.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
    CASE Locations: LT                                                     0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Plasma Cannon                                RA        7         1         3.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           RA        4         1         2.00
Plasma Cannon                                LA        7         1         3.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           LA        4         1         2.00
Medium Pulse Laser                           RT        4         1         2.00
Active Probe                                 RT        0         1         1.00
ATM-9                                        LT        6         4         5.00
@Plasma Cannon (10)                          RA        -         1         1.00
@Plasma Cannon (10)                          LA        -         1         1.00
@ATM-9 (HE) (14)                             LT        -         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0



The HAG/AP-Gauss variant of the Summoner is a simple switch of the UAC ERSL and two heatsinks from the Prime variant. Like the Timber Wolf, this variant keeps the old LRM rack.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: G                                              Cost: 21,665,083
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,804

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 5  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   0.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             12(24)                    2.00
    CASE Locations: LT, LA                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC                                       RA        15        2         6.00
HAG-20                                       LA        4         6        10.00
LRM-15                                       LT        5         2         3.50
    Artemis IV FCS                           LT        -         1         1.00
3 AP Gauss Rifles                            LT        3         3         1.50
@HAG-20 (12)                                 RT        -         2         2.00
@LRM-15 (Artemis) (8)                        LT        -         1         1.00
@AP Gauss Rifle (40)                         LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 6


Expanding upon the Enhanced variant, the Heavy Laser variant switches the ERPPC and UAC arms for Gauss and HLL arms.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: H                                              Cost: 21,196,521
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,549

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 5  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   0.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             13(26)                    3.00
    CASE Locations: LT, LA                                                 0.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heavy Large Laser                            RA        18        3         4.00
Gauss Rifle                                  LA        1         6        12.00
ATM-9                                        LT        6         4         5.00
@Gauss Rifle (16)                            LT        -         2         2.00
@ATM-9 (ER) (7)                              LT        -         1         1.00
@ATM-9 (HE) (7)                              LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 4


And finally, since the old M variant was said to be Nikolai Malthus' personal variant, I decided to base the design off the 1st Somerset Striker's TV series interpretation. While there are some oddities (like firing three lasers and missiles out of the same ports in the legs) I gave his mech an all energy loadout similar in vein to the old D variant, complete with a targeting computer and quad SPLs in the legs. Ohhoho he would love it, and hate to have lost to Adam Steiner while on it.

Code:
================================================================================
Loadout Name: (Malthus)                                      Cost: 20,788,521
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E                         BV2: 2,942

Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jumping MP: 5  (Standard)
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   0.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             17(34)                    7.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 4 LT, 2 LA, 1 RA
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA+LA

Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Large Pulse Laser                            RA        10        2         6.00
ER Medium Laser                              RA        5         1         1.00
ER PPC                                       LA        15        2         6.00
Targeting Computer                           RT        -         4         4.00
2 Small Pulse Lasers                         RL        4         2         2.00
2 Small Pulse Lasers                         LL        4         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0



I know I'm a few variants short (HH and Q) but with the major weapon categories taken care of in the Prime-H variants, I don't see too much loss in not including either. Wouldn't you all agree?
N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
scheinlen
05/22/12 07:07 PM
204.111.103.100

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OK, so it might be "dishonorable" but your "Newest" design would be nice loaded out with Swarms, but I'd reduce the LRM 20s down to 15s and atleast add a pair of SPLs for anti-infantry defence and run it like a catapult or longbow.
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
scheinlen
05/22/12 07:35 PM
204.111.103.100

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Scenario

I run a Wolf-n- Exile unit. I have the unit made-up of jump mechs and have aquired a 55 ton Rabid Coyote. Unwanted because it is a Support mech, and need it to "Fit-in" to the unit.

What would be the Best design someone can make?
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
CYBRN4CR
05/22/12 08:56 PM
67.204.151.83

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Don't get me wrong scheinlen. I do agree with using missile mechs as rapid mine layers or swarm/I-swarm mechs. Just remember, at the time of the Clan invasion those were generally regarded as barbarian tactics by the Clan majority except some warriors/officers in Clan Wolf. So the thinking is rather limited to direct LOS engagements. Since taking permanent residence in the IS, only WiE, the Nova Cats, Ghost Bears and maybe Hell's Horses (due to their natural combined arms strategy) are allowed to deploy IS tactics. Since you run a WiE unit, please, feel free to use any variants above and tweak the ammo to reflect your needs.

As for the Rabid Coyote, I might consider ripping out the ATM and ammo and putting in iJJs (since they are proudly made by the WiE) and putting in a ERPPC essentially making it a heavy Pack Hunter. I don't know how well it will work (since I won't have access to my design software until later), but that's all I can think of at the moment.

Hope that helps!
N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
scheinlen
05/22/12 09:04 PM
204.111.94.129

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Nice ideas, My WiE are painted in the 13th Wolf Guards (black with very little red edging) So I got a lot of Leway in tatcics, HAHAHA. I also run a Battalion of Kell Hounds.

The Heavy Pack Hunter idea is nice that will go go with the two Stalking spiders I use in my Head Hunter star.
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
CYBRN4CR
05/22/12 09:46 PM
67.204.151.83

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I bet I know which unit you'd pick in MW4:Mercs to play as...lol

I'm happy for you and your unit. May all your battles be in your favor.

Before I move on to the Hellbringer, do you have any comments/issues about the Summoner variants other than it makes the mech and corresponding JFs harder to kill?

EDIT: Yes, I confirmed that it is possible. The armor/internals and even the quad MPLs can be left untouched but all extra heatsinks along with the ATM/ammo must be removed in order to give you an ERPPC and 8 improved JJs. You can change the lasers to ER versions if you want to give you 4 additional heatsinks - but it depends on what you want. Either way, it should be a relatively easy maintenance-level custom job.
N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.


Edited by CYBRN4CR (05/23/12 12:26 AM)
scheinlen
05/23/12 02:06 PM
204.111.89.20

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For the Summoner, I like your Ideas...
As for the Rabid Coyote, it sounds sweet. As you put it.

4 ER medium lasers, and a ER PPC with a 80 meter jump. Slap in a Targeting computer for a better hit and run that with 2 pack Hunters and 2 Stalking Spider, head Hunters... In a Star.
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
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