Who uses salavage?

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Karagin
11/26/05 11:46 PM
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Who here uses salavage in there game?

If you do, do you allow mix and match for repairs done or not?
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Greyslayer
12/02/05 05:38 PM
216.14.198.49

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Using salvage for say straight repairs = yes

Harder roll using say a salvaged medium laser for a like medium laser as per rules (+1 I believe).

Using non-conforming parts for what was originally designed = No

I'd prefer to sell clan parts for hard-earned c-bills and buy far more equipment I can actually use (you know technicians actually know how to repair etc) also how many mercenary contracts work it's bottoms on seats, more mechs you field the more money you get. Sure a improved dragoon's rating might give you more money but the possibility of limited replcement parts for non-confromed equipment you have salvaged isn't going to help you in the long-run.

Or at least that would be my opinion in different technology levels. If for example you wanted to swap a PPC for Large Laser and 2 Medium Lasers I generally assume the customisation is going to require extra parts than just the salvage you have picked up, energy couplings cables would be different for both especially since it would be inefficient for the old 3025 mechs to carry extra internal power cabling for equipment it doesn't use.
Karagin
12/03/05 09:28 AM
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So you don't allow hybrid style mechs like the Wolfman out of BTechnology magaizne?
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Greyslayer
12/06/05 08:01 AM
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Quote:

So you don't allow hybrid style mechs like the Wolfman out of BTechnology magaizne?




Apart from character I cannot see the advantage of wasting such a large amount of equipment trying to build something like that. In a campaign you either are playing a mercenary or house unit. For the merc it would be hard to justify the expenditure of c-bills to do such a crossover (I assume the mech is like Frankenstien from Battletechnology Issue about #60 I think), while as a house combatant the expenditure of resources and manpower has to be justified upwards. The issues tinkering with a chassis provides as well certainly doesn't make it a positive either.
WreckingCrew
03/01/06 09:18 AM
158.59.158.188

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I use it. Weapons can be exchanged to effect repairs. In absolute rare cases jury-rigging can be done according to standard rules.
Drasnighta
03/02/06 12:36 AM
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Yeah, but there's a lot of RP aspect with it - big special enforcement on the Unbalancing side of things if you want to change something like a Large Laser for a PPC (where those two extra tons come from and all that), but we also go out of the way to not complicate things with Additional Ammunition Feeds if it all possible... So Energy with Energy, Ballistic with Ballistic, that sort of thing... Try not to do the whole Ammunition for Energy unless there is a justifyable reason... Fusion Plants only put out soo much
power... And thats something my friends and I like to keep in mind...
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Greyslayer
03/07/06 06:22 AM
216.14.198.55

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Quote:

Yeah, but there's a lot of RP aspect with it - big special enforcement on the Unbalancing side of things if you want to change something like a Large Laser for a PPC (where those two extra tons come from and all that), but we also go out of the way to not complicate things with Additional Ammunition Feeds if it all possible... So Energy with Energy, Ballistic with Ballistic, that sort of thing... Try not to do the whole Ammunition for Energy unless there is a justifyable reason... Fusion Plants only put out soo much
power... And thats something my friends and I like to keep in mind...




While this is partly correct you have to remember that each ammo weapon would have a different feed mechanism to start with so you would have to remove the entire setup. The same for many energy weapons as standard mechs generally only use cabling essential for that weapon (ie cables for medium lasers will not be capable of being used in conjunction with a large laser).

Omni-mechs would probably use a all-purpose cabling for energy but would still need splitters within the 'pods' themselves. The feed mechanisms actually makes omni-mechs a bit confusing though.
NewPharoah
12/06/06 03:23 PM
207.160.205.13

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I do salvaging and mixing, and/or matching when such actions won't hinder my life and the lives of those I love closely.
Any rules I type should be considered unofficial unless stated otherwise by Precentor Martial Randall Bills and/or published Classic BattleTech products.


Edited by NewPharoah (12/07/06 12:25 PM)
Greyslayer
12/07/06 01:22 AM
216.14.198.52

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Quote:

I do salvaging and mixing, and/or matching when such actions won't hinder my life.




Ahhh, but an uncomplicated life is surely not role playing.
NewPharoah
12/08/06 02:13 PM
207.160.205.13

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Let me guess Greyslayer, you haven't seen my ammo types on the designs forum ?
Any rules I type should be considered unofficial unless stated otherwise by Precentor Martial Randall Bills and/or published Classic BattleTech products.
johnstark
09/28/07 07:44 AM
24.198.92.226

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Quote:

Who here uses salavage in there game?



I do. Salvage is a very intricate part of the Btech universe. The need to pick over the remains of the enemy's force in order to make ends meet is very much part of the atmosphere of btech.

Quote:

If you do, do you allow mix and match for repairs done or not?




This is also something of a canonical issue. There's numerous instances of famous personages in the universe riding around in custom hardware. The CO for Avanti's Angels rides around in a Ceasar with a clan PPC, IIRC, and other such nonsense. For my own part I allow like-for-like upgrades for same techbase equipment. (Replacing an IS.MediumLaser with an IS.ERMediumLaser - for example.) The job is more difficult and requires an engineering skill check at the same difficulty as the weapon repair would normally be in order to bring the mount up to date with the newer technology. Clan ERMLs require much more engineering.

Replacing a PPC and a couple heatsinks with an AC/5 and some ammo (to reduce heat problems or take advantage of level 3 ammo, etc.) is a more drastic engineering roll yet, you're changing the entire internal workup of the system at that point. Adding or removing armor and changing weapon loadouts or removing ammo bins for heatsinks, etc, all of this requires engineering time. Keep in mind, engineering is a lengthy process - most Elite technicians can do a little of it, but when my players have gotten real serious about it they either contract a NPC firm to do the engineering for them, or they hire a full time battlemech engineer who does the work while they're en route on jumpships and so forth. (A merc's life includes MONTHS spent in transit doing 'nothing.') Many of my PCs who are serious about customization will pick up Engineering and do the rolls themselves.

An exception to the above is upgrading oldtech mechs, in their entirety, to the 3050 refit version. As long as Endo-Steel is not involved in the process, I allow this to simply be a repair of every single component on the 'mech that is effected by the change. If the new unit uses endo-steel? You're stuck with the old version. The reason for this is that it makes sense that the engineering modifications could be done in the field, and that - to sell parts - Battlemech companies would publish these 'refit kits' so that units could make field modifications of existing products. This is partially supported by 3050 TR fluff text, and also supported by the RL practices involved in selling the Scion Xb.

of course, Omnimechs are BUILT for hot-swapping, so I allow them to be customized all the time, within the rules for omni. That said, omni's are rare. I've only twice had players manage to salvage clan omnis in repairable condition. They then had to go into clan space and ToP for some clan technicians. THAT was a fun scenario. Those six techs cost them two full lances (out of a reinforced company) - but with clan techs comes the ability to salvage and operate clan hardware.
Karagin
09/28/07 09:03 PM
24.26.220.4

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It's also in the Snord's Irregulars scenario book/unit book and was in BTechnology magazine.

I see merc units doing things like that since they have to keep their machines running at all cost. They won't be able to always get the proper part or even a close one, so they have to use the two smalls lasers they won in a fight to replace a medium laser. Thus they change their mech's configuration...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Christopher_Perkins
05/18/08 11:12 AM
24.125.201.167

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If someone is in a House Unit, there is probably little Reason to Mix 'n match (Other than Clans Tech on IS Chassis, or Poppng a C^3 or C^3i on a Clans Tech Chassis, etc)) because you have the resources to actually use Factory Spec Equipment for that design.

Exception is Customization that falls within the limited BattleTech Customization in print Today. Such as reskinning a Mech with FF Armour, or Swapping out an AC/2 w/ammo for a PPC or AC/5 w/ammo for a PPC and 2 HS.

So, Yeah, i would say that Mercenary units and Milittia Units (Mercenary units fall below the canon Radar, and are, contrarwise, the Focus of the Player Related Rules in the BattleTech Universe...) would do things like Swapping out Armour, Location and Crit tables for for a RT/LT location that was cored, or Popping on an entire arm assembly to replace one that was blown off or cored (as is possible under the original Customization, Repair and Salvage Rules Published in BattleTech RPG 1st Edition so yes, it is quite Canon, if abandoned)

Note, Only Rarely would a unit stockpile location parts, instead what would happen is a Unit woudl have Supplies of Bar Stock for IS (ES I) or EX (ES II) Chassis and Stocks of Various Armour... and this would suffice as long as the location wasn't Cored... And Then it is possible to Rebuild the Location.

IMO? Rebuilding a Location By Hand & Cutting / Welding Torches from Bar Stock is a Lot More Frankenstein than using Factory Spec Parts from another design, even if the other design is tons heavier or lighter... the only IS Pips that are really deal breakers are the Legs (Legs should be matched) and the CT (that is the mech right there, once these are gone in by Ammo Explosions or Artillery Strikes, all thats left is pieces or parts scattered accross the battlefield)
Christopher Robin Perkins

It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield


Edited by Christopher_Perkins (05/18/08 11:18 AM)
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
06/22/08 03:12 PM
99.204.122.60

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I would not have the mechs that I have it was not for redesigning mechs. But it takes months maybe years depending what resources and time you have available. Far more time than the time that it takes to jump from one side of the inter sphere to the other. You might have to strip the mech down and totally rebuild it from the ground up.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

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Christopher_Perkins
07/28/08 10:03 PM
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Total time to strip a mech down to its components was IIRC published in BattleTech RPG 1st Edition...

humm, be interesting if someone would build a sheet that digested a HMP text Output and turned the loadout's Crits, Armour Pips, and IS Pips, and to the total amount of time necessary to build it by "hand"*... Nothing in the Canon tells us how much a force multiplier a real factory setup will be...




* (using the Repair Platform, (Armour) Cutting / Joining Kit, Gyro Kit, Fusion Engine Repair Kit, Sensor Repair Kit, Electronics Repair Kit, etc. (IOW, the BattleTech Rules assume that you have *all* this Equipment... The Mechwarrior / BattleTech RPG Rules allow for the possibility that you DON'T)
Christopher Robin Perkins

It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
Newtype
11/09/08 10:51 AM
75.52.182.110

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Quote:

Who here uses salavage in there game?



I use salvage in my games. I enjoy being able to make use of what I collect.

Quote:

If you do, do you allow mix and match for repairs done or not?



I do allow mix and match as well as mix and nonmatch for redesigning.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
12/24/08 08:06 AM
24.5.142.150

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Quote:

Quote:

Who here uses salavage in there game?



I use salvage in my games. I enjoy being able to make use of what I collect.

Quote:

If you do, do you allow mix and match for repairs done or not?



I do allow mix and match as well as mix and nonmatch for redesigning.




I am sure that you get a exactly what you want, since your the DM and all of the players rolled up together.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Kovax
12/31/08 09:38 AM
75.146.193.46

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Previous campaigns I've been involved in have used "limited" salavage. Basic armor and internal structure was fair game, and "matching" components such as actuators were swappable between different 'Mechs of the same tonnage (not between different tonnages within the same weight class). A "similar" part (one brand of ML with another) incurred a penalty, a dis-similar part such as a laser for a heatsink was considered "jury-rigged" and required passing an even more diffiucult check (along with possible failures each time you took it into combat), and any more drastic mods required months of engineering to even consider, along with possible complications due to oversights or unforseen conflicts.

Mixing IS and Clan? Probably beyond the capabilities of most IS technicians, and a major effort even for a highly skilled engineer. The only practical way would be to get ahold of a really good Clan technician.
Karagin
08/13/09 01:31 PM
72.178.75.99

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Very interesting setting and very much how things use to be in the BT universe.

And yes I know the thread is over a year old.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
01/10/11 11:26 AM
173.150.181.251

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Quote:

Very interesting setting and very much how things use to be in the BT universe.

And yes I know the thread is over a year old.




No, over five years old.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Karagin
01/10/11 05:34 PM
178.76.138.173

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Check the date of the posting I made to the comment, it was in 2009 to a comment made in 2008. So it was correct. Now if you go off the of the original thread date 2005 then it is more like the five you are saying, so which date are you using?
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
01/10/11 09:11 PM
68.24.95.232

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From the first posting since you said thread not a posting.

It has been 5 years since the tread was started.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!


Edited by His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey (01/10/11 09:13 PM)
Hythos
02/07/12 12:26 PM
137.78.94.87

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I have used salvage of many kinds in MANY campaigns. It's always allowed via rigging-rules, with a chance of failure, etc. As for RP / Mechwarrior (vs simple Battletech L3 rulings), logic dictates the success and over-all outcome. Better techs, improved working conditions and equipment = faster repairs, greater success, higher efficiency. Everything from use of any mech with work-able hands to a lifting platform (or a mech holding a work-platform) can considerably improve the success.
Consider rigging an autocarriage (a dodge, for example) with salvage from another (Ford). It's VERY possible. It won't look pretty, and may have some difficulties with drive-train linkage, ect. Multiply that by 10, and you'd probably come close to the complications of 'mech refits.

Even the US military had something called a Versamill - which allowed machinists and mechanics to repair equipment in the field - even as far as rebuilding engines.


However, complications come with actuators, with legs (hips especially) being the most difficult. Like-manufactured components use similar enough hardware, but nearly every joint is unique to their chassis - not to mention the Mech's main computer's programming for movement and targetting. Still very possible, but the tech would need to recalibrate everything once it's back together again... same with weapons-systems.
Ahh! I could imagine it now, would it would be like to salvage a leg off a Griffon and mount it to a Phoenix Hawk! At best, -3MP and +2 vs piloting skill roles - BUT! You'd have a walking mech, vs "popping smoke" and calling in for an evac
scheinlen
05/26/12 10:45 PM
204.111.94.138

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When a unit' back is to the sea and the enemy at their front wants their heads... jerry rigging a mech from scrap sounds better then nothing. More then one war has been fought in the past using enemy weapons. And In the military Field "remodeling" has been going on for ever. In Korea, along the boarder the daily mail and supplies where transported along the DMZ on a modified HEMMT truck with added armor/ sand bags and some heavy MGs added.
The Korean troops added Gatling guns to jeeps and suchall the time. (They loved the Gatlings)

So yes I use salvage and I believe any army would because most units after a while are made up of battle salvaged mechs. And "custom" mechs would seem to be the norm, because most warriors prefer one weapon or style then others. IE... two different warriors, one skilled at long range shooting vs the other specializes in Close quarters combat. But the two warriors have the same mech design...so Salvage and cutoming are both used to benifit the warriors and the unit.
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