Javelin IIC

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Rotwang
08/06/04 08:36 AM
213.118.81.209

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BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Javelin IIC
Tech: Clan / 3067
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Duralyte 246 Endo Steel
Power Plant: 180 GM Fusion
Walking Speed: 64,8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97,2 km/h
Jump Jets: 6 Rawlings 45 Standard Jump Jets
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor Type: StarGuard I Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
2 Adv. Tact. Msl. 6s
Manufacturer: Stormvanger Assemblies, Light Division
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: Garret T-10B
Targeting & Tracking System: Dynatec 128C

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
==Overview:==
The Javelin is still commonly found in the Inner Sphere but was rare among the
Clans. After nearly a decade and half of clashing with the Inner Sphere, many
Clans saw the need for new designs to supplement their forces. Clan Ghost
Bear was no exception, having taken the risk of settling in the Inner Sphere.

Lacking effective lighter designs the Ghost Bears made a lucky find, an old
production line for the Javelin in the Rasalhague republic. Rasalhague
attempts had been made to repair it, but the invasion put an end to this.
Recently refurbished the Ghost Bears are producing Javelins once more.

==Capabilities:==
The Javelin is comparable to the original design, making use of the same
components except for double strength heat sinks and the incorporation of a
pair of ATM 6 launchers, make the Javelin a very flexible light mech, capable
of taking on enemies at both close and long range by switching ammo types.
Surprisingly the Ghost Bears are also producing small numbers of the original
Javelin mounting a pair of SRM6 launchers. The reasons for this are unknown
at the moment.

==Battle History:==
Being a new design, the Javelin IIC has not yet seen combat.

==Deployment==
The Javelin IIC can be found in garrison units across the Ghost Bear dominion,
usually acting as a scout and fire support mech for light Stars.

None of the original Javelins have been deployed as of yet.

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Javelin IIC
Mass: 30 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 51 pts Endo Steel 7 1,50
(Endo Steel Loc: 2 LA, 2 RA, 2 LT, 1 RT)
Engine: 180 Fusion 6 7,00
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 6 ,00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 LT, 2 RT)
Gyro: 4 2,00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 ,00
Armor Factor: 64 pts Ferro-Fibrous 7 3,50
(Armor Crit Loc: 1 HD, 2 LA, 1 RA, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 CT)

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 6
Center Torso: 10 8
Center Torso (Rear): 2
L/R Side Torso: 7 8/8
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 2/2
L/R Arm: 5 6/6
L/R Leg: 7 8/8

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Adv. Tact. Msl. 6 RT 4 30 6 6,50
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 CT)
1 Adv. Tact. Msl. 6 LT 4 3 3,50
6 Standard Jump Jets: 6 3,00
(Jump Jet Loc: 1 LT, 1 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 8 66 30,00
Crits & Tons Left: 12 ,00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 3.098.940 C-Bills
Battle Value: 941
Cost per BV: 3.293,24
Weapon Value: 308 / 308 (Ratio = ,33 / ,33)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 7; MRDmg = 9; LRDmg = 1
BattleForce2: MP: 6J, Armor/Structure: 2/3
Damage PB/M/L: 4/2/1, Overheat: 0
Class: ML; Point Value: 9
Karagin
05/24/12 09:51 AM
72.178.85.122

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I can seem them doing this.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
scheinlen
05/24/12 11:00 AM
204.111.95.226

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Nice set-up but, lacking at least a Sm laser, leaves the Pilot to be afraid of a Infantry or Engineer Anti-mech team...
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
CYBRN4CR
05/24/12 02:52 PM
67.204.151.83

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That's the Javelin for you.

Since I try to make IIC mechs similar but of a different tonnage than the original (think Warhammer IIC or Marauder IIC) it might be interesting to see the IIC version being 25 or 35t while keeping the Clan goodies. But to keep with the fluff, I might try returning the internal structure and heatsinks to standard grade and exchanging the ATM6s and ammo for quad ATM3s with 1 ton or two tons of ammo to make it closer to a C variant in style but with Clan FF.
N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
scheinlen
05/28/12 06:48 PM
204.111.123.23

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Why run a ATM3 when you could carry a LRM 5 ?
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
Karagin
05/28/12 09:00 PM
72.178.85.122

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The Ammo choices aside, the Clans don't use anything really special for their LRMs other then Swarm or Streak...so the ATM allows for more options and if you are using the Improved version of the ATMs then you have a streak option as well...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
scheinlen
05/28/12 09:29 PM
204.111.104.60

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I stand corrected Lord General, (Bows at the waist, and dips the hat)
But this humbal officer says If my swarms and streaks dont get them then; Ill block them with my Fasco mine fields as I tacticaly back up and hit them some more.

I try to limit my different demands on the supply system because the merchant cast are to tight to provide all the ammo I would ask for.

And second, as the Clan way I have done so much with so little, for so long, My Khan now thinks I can do anything with nothing...

And lastly; That STONED Stone in the IS has bewitched the Khans into giving up 1/4 of their mechs For PEACE.
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
Karagin
05/28/12 11:08 PM
72.178.85.122

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Minefields are great...IF no one can see them, but when you fire your missiles everyone knows you just mined XYZ hexes and if they don't get the hint well they find out the hard way.

Not much call for Clans using a lot of the fancy munitions until way late in the fight against the Inner Sphere and even then not all Clans would use them since as you suggested their honor would prevent it.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
CYBRN4CR
05/29/12 01:09 AM
67.204.151.83

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Quote:

But to keep with the fluff, I might try returning the internal structure and heatsinks to standard grade and exchanging the ATM6s and ammo for quad ATM3s with 1 ton or two tons of ammo to make it closer to a C variant in style but with Clan FF.



Silly me. I forgot you can directly switch four ATM3s with two IS SRM6s. So, yes, you can easily make a C variant of the Javelin keeping everything about the original the same, but having quad ATM3s and two tons of HE ammo.

In fact, here it is. I made it entirely Clan-tech even though technically it is mixed to make it tournament legal.

Code:
Javelin C

Mass: 30 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-D
Production Year: 3067
Cost: 2,512,640 C-Bills
Battle Value: 837

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 180 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
4 ATM-3s
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 51 points 3.00
Engine: Fusion Engine 180 7.00
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 2 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL 3.00
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 HD, 1 LT, 1 RT
Gyro: Standard 2.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 64 4.00
CASE Locations: LT, RT 0.00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 6
Center Torso 10 8
Center Torso (rear) 2
L/R Torso 7 8
L/R Torso (rear) 2
L/R Arm 5 6
L/R Leg 7 8

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 ATM-3s RT 4 4 3.00
2 ATM-3s LT 4 4 3.00
@ATM-3 (HE) (20) RT - 1 1.00
@ATM-3 (HE) (20) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 28



Quote:

Why run a ATM3 when you could carry a LRM 5?



Because the inbuilt Artemis and HE ammo is enough to one-up the original? Plus the Javelin was never known to to be a long range fighter until the -11F. But, if you want LRMs, here's a variant with 6 LRM5s and 2 tons of ammo.

Code:
Javelin C2

Mass: 30 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-C
Production Year: 3067
Cost: 2,486,640 C-Bills
Battle Value: 982

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 180 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
6 LRM-5s
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 51 points 3.00
Engine: Fusion Engine 180 7.00
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 2 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL 3.00
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 HD, 1 LT, 1 RT
Gyro: Standard 2.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 64 4.00
CASE Locations: LT, RT 0.00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 6
Center Torso 10 8
Center Torso (rear) 2
L/R Torso 7 8
L/R Torso (rear) 2
L/R Arm 5 6
L/R Leg 7 8

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 LRM-5s RT 6 3 3.00
3 LRM-5s LT 6 3 3.00
@LRM-5 (24) RT - 1 1.00
@LRM-5 (24) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 30

N4, ten-four! Cyber Enforcer at your service.
CrayModerator
05/29/12 05:09 PM
173.168.112.109

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Quote:

The Ammo choices aside, the Clans don't use anything really special for their LRMs other then Swarm or Streak...so the ATM allows for more options and if you are using the Improved version of the ATMs then you have a streak option as well...




Well, actually, the ATM doesn't offer anything more than an LRM (ton for ton they deliver about the same damage on average). ATMs need 2 types of ammo (HE and ER) to match the performance of 1 type of LRM ammo (standard.) ATMs also lack indirect fire, which is a great advantage to LRMs.

So, in summary, ATMs: need more ammo types to do less than a simple LRM.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
scheinlen
05/29/12 07:08 PM
204.111.95.206

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So swapping out my limited amount of ATMs for LRMs, help out not only my suppy problems but dont hender my Star Cluster like I thought...
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
CrayModerator
05/29/12 07:55 PM
173.168.112.109

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Quote:

So swapping out my limited amount of ATMs for LRMs, help out not only my suppy problems but dont hender my Star Cluster like I thought...




Correct. ATMs have a damage advantage at ranges 1 to 3, but beyond that LRMs and ATMs have roughly equal damage on a ton-for-ton basis. LRMs, however, achieve that damage with a single ammo type, while ATMs need 2. (The standard ATM ammo is useless; stick to ER and HE if you have to use ATMs.)

LRMs, though, can fire indirectly. ATMs can't. So while offering equal damage from 1 ammo type, LRMs also have extra flexibility.

Then, somewhat hypocritically, LRMs have flexibility with alternate ammo. ATMs have a choice of blow **** up (HE), blow **** up (standard), or blow **** up (ER). LRMs have the option of blow **** up (standard), blow **** up with better to-hit chances (swarm), lay down mines, lay down smoke, burn stuff (incendiary), etc. Like Karagin said, the Clans don't exploit the full potential of LRMs, but that potential is there - and isn't present in ATMs, which can only blow **** up (using 2 types of ammo to equal 1 type of LRM ammo).

ATMs have a false reputation for flexibility because they switch between 3 types of ammo but, really, take a step back and look at the results. Those 3 types of ammo only match 1 type of LRM ammo; they can't be fired indirectly; and there's no "utility" ammo options like Thunder, Swarm, Incendiary, or smoke.

Is your Swiss army knife really a flexible tool if it needs 3 tools to get the work of 1 universal tool?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
scheinlen
05/30/12 05:01 AM
204.111.95.147

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Ok, so now I understand LRMs are better, which LRM gives me better bang for the wieght. (,5,10,15,20,30 ?)
wieght of a Clan LRM 10 verse the misslies fired verses the missliles to hit normally

lClan LRM 15, is my choice, still leaves room for other weapons ,yet I still can hit hard.
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
CrayModerator
05/30/12 05:01 PM
173.168.112.109

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Quote:

Ok, so now I understand LRMs are better, which LRM gives me better bang for the wieght. (,5,10,15,20,30 ?)




No such thing as an LRM 30, but it'd be nice.

They're all roughly equal, though the Clan LRM-5 has an efficiency advantage.
**Clan LRM-5 has 5 tubes per ton.
**Clan LRM-10 has 4 tubes per ton.
**Clan LRM-15 has 4.28 tubes per ton.
**Clan LRM-20 has 4 tubes per ton.

Other considerations are heat (the Clan LRM-5 has the worst - slightly - heat-per-tube ratio) and crits (the Clan LRM-5 and LRM-20 are equal, while the LRM-10 is, IIRC, most efficient).

If you have the same total number of tubes, there isn't much difference in damage. At the same target number, 4 LRM 5s average out to hit about as hard as 1 LRM 20.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
scheinlen
05/30/12 05:31 PM
204.111.104.96

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thanks, know what was I thanking (MRM 30) i dont know I must be getting seenile...lol
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
Karagin
05/30/12 06:55 PM
64.134.124.227

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So having the different types HE, AP etc...doesn't give you anything? Find that one hard to believe. So why would I want cluster shot for the LBX weapons if the slug does the most damage vs the cluster effect? I think you are being a bit to simplistic here Cray.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
CrayModerator
05/31/12 08:43 AM
147.160.136.10

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Quote:

So why would I want cluster shot for the LBX weapons if the slug does the most damage vs the cluster effect?




I was only talking about the suckitude of ATMs, not about LBXs. LBX alternate ammo choices are great.. LRM alternate ammo types are great. AC alternate ammo types are great. SRM alternate ammo types are great.

All those other weapons get the point of alternate ammos: they bring something new to the weapon. Like LBXs: with slug ammo alone, you've got lighter, longer-ranged ACs. Nice. But with cluster ammo brings all-new capabilities that standard ACs can't match - great! LRM alternate ammos are great: they don't overlap and each one brings something new to the table. Mines, Swarm, semi-guided, incendiary, smoke, etc. Great stuff. Same goes for almost any other weapon with multiple ammo types.

But ATM alternate ammo types all do the same type of damage: cluster damage in 5-point groups. What's HE ammo do? Cluster damage in 5-point groups. Standard ATM ammo? Cluster damage in 5-point groups. ER ATM ammo? Cluster damage in 5-point groups.

The difference between ATM ammo types is of total damage, which is offset by range differences. HE ATM missiles (3pts/missile) are nice at 1-3 hexes, but their target numbers get so bad so quickly that pop-gun ER ATM missiles (1pt/missile) soon outperforms HE ammo.

Quote:

So having the different types HE, AP etc...doesn't give you anything? Find that one hard to believe.




Speaking strictly of ATMs vs Clan LRMs, that's correct. You can run the math yourself and it'll stand out clear as bell when you look at average damage. I'll post some stats later, but I don't have my weapon comparison spreadsheet handy right now. From memory:

From 1-3 hexes, ATM HE ammo does give a 50% damage advantage over LRM standard ammo (for the same tonnage of weapon.) So, yes, there's a point blank advantage to ATMs over LRM standard ammo.

From 4 to 21 hexes, a combination of ATM HE and ATM ER ammo gives about the same damage as LRM standard ammo. (ATM standard ammo gives no advantages over ER and HE ATM ammo. If you mount an ATM and want to maximize its efficiency, just carry ER and HE ammo.) Note that: you need 2 ATM ammo types to equal one LRM ammo type.

From 22 to 24 hexes, ATM ER ammo can hit targets while LRMs can't, but the average damage is trivial.

On the other hand, LRMs can fire indirectly. ATMs can't. LRMs can lay down mines. ATMs can't. LRMs can fire Swarm ammo. ATMs can't. LRMs can lay down smoke. ATMs can't. LRMs can fire incindiary rounds. ATMs can't. LRM standard ammo does the work of 3 types of ATM ammo.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.


Edited by Cray (05/31/12 08:46 AM)
Karagin
05/31/12 09:04 AM
64.134.124.227

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Granted the LRMs have different ammos, but the Clans RARELY use the secondary ammos for the LRMs, the Home Clans don't and the Inner Sphere Clans some might use them but again a rare bird for it to happen. Not seeing them blanketing the battlefield with mines or swarm munitions as were an IS commander would be quick to use them all in one fight.

My take here is that the mixing of ammo like with the LBX gives you the flexibility to mix and match what you are firing. And with the Improved version from the Reaving book you have streak ability built in...that to me gives the ATM an advantage over the LRMs.

Now if they could find away to give all of the special warheads to Streak systems....that could be an interesting moment.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
scheinlen
05/31/12 01:28 PM
204.111.92.177

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The relucktance of the clans to use "IS" tactics. (IE swarm LRMs mines and mass fire) I run a Star Cluster painted in the Wolf Spiders / Black Guards (13th Wof Guards) trained to fight like the IS. Might not be respected by most clan warriors, but Natasha Kerensky trained them that way...
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
CrayModerator
05/31/12 04:03 PM
173.168.112.109

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Quote:

The relucktance of the clans to use "IS" tactics. (IE swarm LRMs mines and mass fire) I run a Star Cluster painted in the Wolf Spiders / Black Guards (13th Wof Guards) trained to fight like the IS. Might not be respected by most clan warriors, but Natasha Kerensky trained them that way...




The Clans stopped worrying about using Inner Sphere tactics in the late 3060s, except against other Clans.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
scheinlen
05/31/12 07:35 PM
204.111.93.151

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I have been out of touch with BT for a few years (Over working) I never got the chance to get many of the last few books. I have not seen if or when the Wolf Clan did or did not rejoin. I got the last series of books that state that the Wolfs went into the IS with Stiner help... but I have not found If the wolves are joined. I know that the 13th Wolf guards are listed in several Bids (in the books) but thats all... Can some body get my up to speed... Or what book should I buy to read it for myself.
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
CrayModerator
06/01/12 07:13 AM
147.160.136.10

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Quote:

I have been out of touch with BT for a few years (Over working) I never got the chance to get many of the last few books. I have not seen if or when the Wolf Clan did or did not rejoin. I got the last series of books that state that the Wolfs went into the IS with Stiner help... but I have not found If the wolves are joined. I know that the 13th Wolf guards are listed in several Bids (in the books) but thats all... Can some body get my up to speed... Or what book should I buy to read it for myself.




The split Wolf Clan did not rejoin, and remains separate into the 3100s.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
scheinlen
06/01/12 08:27 AM
204.111.95.250

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Thanks, that makes since to me...
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
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