scheinlen
09/21/12 02:56 PM
71.229.66.245
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C3 systems in combat
OK, I am looking for some information to clear up a discussion in my gaming group; about the C3 systems and ECM usage in gaming. Below is what we agree on, but, we request more info.
Problem:
In a lance of 1 master and 3 slave units, in a large fight with another lance or more… does all the mechs get a bonus to hit the same mech or 2 if the lance is splitting their combined fire between 2 targets to hit? And what about ECM on but sides, how does this effect combat?
NOTE: The c3 systems are covered in great detail on pages 131-133 of Total Warfare.
A C3 Network is a network consisting of either a C3 Command Unit and up to three C3 Slave Units or six C3i units. Basically a special tight-beam communications network, they are used to share targeting data between 'Mechs and Combat Vehicles. The original C3 Networks were introduced in 3050 by the Draconis Combine.
The C3 Networks that exist today are geared towards the smallest level of tactical command: This means that each 'Mech in a Lance (or a ComGuard Level I for C3i) can share targeting data. There have been efforts to expand this targeting coordination to the Company level by using a 'Mech with a pair of C3 Command Units, like the Draconis Combine's Tai-sho.
A C3 Network of C3 Command units and C3 Slave units cannot share targeting data with units using a C3i system.
Alternate Meanings
The term C3 Network is also used to indicate the Command/Control/Communications function of a military unit.
Game rules;
Each C3 Slave unit must point to a single C3 Master unit.
The standard C3 Slave unit weighs 1 ton and takes up a single critical slot.
The C3 Boosted Slave takes up 2 critical slots and weighs 3 tons. It is immune to all ECM except the Angel ECM Suite. The C3 Boosted Slave requires a C3 Boosted Master computer, and is incompatible with existing C3 Master Systems.
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
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Cray
09/21/12 09:42 PM
97.101.96.171
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Quote:
In a lance of 1 master and 3 slave units, in a large fight with another lance or more… does all the mechs get a bonus to hit the same mech or 2 if the lance is splitting their combined fire between 2 targets to hit?
All C3 does is shorten the effective range to the target. There's no "bonus." For example, if 3 of your 'Mechs are at a distance of 17 hexes from one target and the fourth 'Mech is 3 hexes away, then all the 'Mechs in the C3 lance have target numbers as if they're 3 hexes away. No, weapon ranges do not get extended, but you do eliminate range penalties.
For the second target, you use the shortest distance from one of the C3 'Mechs to the second target.
Quote:
And what about ECM on but sides, how does this effect combat?
If ECM gets in the way of a C3 link, the link is broken.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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scheinlen
09/22/12 06:05 PM
71.229.66.245
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TY, so ECM has no other uses as far as game goes?, and BAP I under stand, what about Clan EWP (Electronic warfair package, it is a combo of all the above but the C3 system , right...
The clans never did get a C3 system correct?
Last Targeting computer, -1 on a to hit role?
This will be printed and given to the gaming group thanks CRAY, for the info, solves athe discussion.
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
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Raplet
09/22/12 10:52 PM
68.150.148.233
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As I understand (and I am most familiar with BT Compendium level rules)
- ECM disrupts C3, Active Probe (depending on systems), Artemis IV & NARC where any use has a LOS that passes within the area of effect (depending on system). Not sure if SWARMs are affected.
- Clans don't do C3 (would not be honorable to use somebody else's targeting data)
- I don't see why a targeting computer wouldn't work with a C3 system.
All that C3 does is reduce the range modifier to the closest linked system that possesses a valid LOS to the target. Nothing more, nothing less. And it doesn't affect the usefulness or lack of usefulness of any system. It will not increase the maximum range of a weapon (You can't fire a small laser at a target 15 hexes away, even if you have a firend who is standing right next to the target), and minimum ranges still apply (If you are 1 hex from the target, you still get a +6 modifer for your LRMs, even if you have a friend who is 7 hexes from the target).
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scheinlen
09/22/12 11:04 PM
71.229.66.245
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OK, so is there any advantage in game play with SWARMS?
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
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Cray
09/23/12 04:20 PM
173.171.195.58
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Quote:
TY, so ECM has no other uses as far as game goes?, and BAP I under stand, what about Clan EWP (Electronic warfair package, it is a combo of all the above but the C3 system , right...
ECM can jam Artemis, Narc, Beagle Probes, and C3 links. Angel ECM suites can also break Streak locks, as I recall.
The Clan electronic do-it-all gizmo (which is not tournament legal, but advanced/experimental) is a standard ECM and a standard active probe in one small package.
Quote:
The clans never did get a C3 system correct?
Correct. They find it dishonorable to use C3 spotters. A warrior should be able to aim at their targets without help.
Quote:
Last Targeting computer, -1 on a to hit role?
That's the basic function. It can also be used for some other effects, like called shots.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (09/23/12 04:27 PM)
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Raplet
09/23/12 07:00 PM
68.150.148.233
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Quote:
OK, so is there any advantage in game play with SWARMS?
SWARMs are basically LRMs which try to hit other targets when they miss their intended target.
Good if you are firing into a cluster of the enemy.
Bad if you fire into a furball, unless your friends can take the hits, and the enemies can't.
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scheinlen
09/23/12 07:15 PM
71.229.66.245
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OK, I uderstood that , but so how do swarms work out in game play if they miss there first target?
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
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Raplet
09/23/12 08:19 PM
68.150.148.233
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Hmmm... SWARMs aren't listed in Total Warfare. I'd have to dig out my compendium for the rules. And the wiki entry doesn't describe use.
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Hythos
10/03/12 03:54 PM
137.78.94.42
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Swarm-LRM's will seek additional, adjacent targets, if roll HITS the initial target, but not all on the "number of missles" chart.
I suppose I could have written that a bit more clear...
If an LRM attack hits its intended target, and not all of the salvo hit - the remaining LRM's have a chance to strike an adjacent, near-by target, within 3 (or 5) hexes of the original target, up to the maximum distance of the missle. Not compatible with other guidance or pay-load types; there's also a modifier of +2(?) to the initial to-hit roll, and continue to seek out additional targets until the max-range has been reached, or they are out of targets (within the limitation 3or5 hexes).
Disclaimer: Yes, I could have looked it up, but that's what I remember from ~15+ years ago.
Swarms use an object-detection that is NOT affected by ECM. Highly useful when firing at targets out of LOS. These need not actually fire AT a mech - but can be fired at an object or obstacle - and WILL seek out battlemechs/vehicles beyond the intended target (albeit a tree, rock-formation, what ever).
Interesting results when firing Swarm LRM's at Aerospace fighters while in formation.
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scheinlen
10/04/12 11:35 PM
69.208.142.216
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cool, so when firing at a formation of mechs with no line of sight I roll to hit with a modifier of ? plus my gunnery, and movment modifier... to hit plus the targets movement modifier... firing at middle of enemey formation.
CORRECT?
It is not my job to judge my Enemies, that is there God's job. It is only my duty to arrange the meeting!
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