Ground Hog HT

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Karagin
04/21/13 07:53 PM
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Code:
          BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED

Type/Model: Ground Hog HT
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060
Config: Hovercraft
Rules: Level 2, Standard design

Mass: 50 tons
Power Plant: 165 Nissan Light Fusion
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor Type: Johnston Duraweave 6000 Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 Ultra AC/5
2 Holly-4 Pack SRM 4s
2 ER Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: JonTech
Location: Alma Ata, Terra
Communications System: Johnston VRR
Targeting & Tracking System: Jalastar TargiTrack 717

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Ground Hog HT
Mass: 50 tons

Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 20 pts Standard 0 5.00
Engine: 165 Light Fusion 1 6.67
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 3.33
Cruise MP: 8
Flank MP: 12
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 2.50
Crew: 4 Members 0 .00
Lift Equipment: 0 5.00
Armor Factor: 152 pts Ferro-Fibrous 2 8.50

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 5 54
Left / Right Sides: 5 37/37
Rear: 5 24

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Ultra AC/5 Front 0 40 2 11.00
2 SRM 4s Front 0 50 3 6.00
2 ER Medium Lasers Front 10 2 2.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 10 10 50.00
Items & Tons Left: 5 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 5,094,000 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 1,114 (old BV = 801)
Cost per BV: 4,572.71
Weapon Value: 753 / 753 (Ratio = .68 / .68)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 22; MRDmg = 9; LRDmg = 3
BattleForce2: MP: 8H, Armor/Structure: 0 / 6
Damage PB/M/L: 3/3/1, Overheat: 0
Class: GM; Point Value: 11

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/22/13 02:31 PM
173.130.182.235

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The only real advantage vehicles have over battlemechs in batletech is their low cost. This hover craft does not take advantage of that one thing.

I would slow it down and ditch the light fusion power plant for a standard fusion power plant..
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Karagin
04/22/13 06:43 PM
72.178.85.122

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I don't think it needs to be slowed down at all. It is a hovercraft not a tracked tank. Speed is it's life.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
04/22/13 09:14 PM
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To do as you suggest means the vehicle loses weapons and or ability to function as intended, I am not seeing how dropping the see or the light fusion engine is going to be a helpful idea beyond cutting cost. I have a cost reduce version of this vehicle, all level one tech, VERY limited in ability and role. The light fusion allows the speed and thus allowing the vehicle to preform in the intended role of fast attack zoom off come back hit again, take some hits, run away when needed.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/23/13 12:16 AM
99.202.84.70

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An army works on a budget. Few Quartermasters are going to wast their limited budget on some floating can when they can buy a battlemech for the same drain on their yearly budget. You convince an armies Quartermaster to buy vehicles because they cost a great deal less than a battlemech and can take on far more costly battlemechs.

Just like everything else fighting wars comes down to economics.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Karagin
04/23/13 06:11 AM
72.178.85.122

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This is Battletech, if what you said held true we would never seen the Jihad or even the Star League.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/23/13 08:28 AM
108.103.126.48

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Everything is about economics. There is no political power with out economic power. That's true with "ANY" society that is more advanced than small stone age tribal villages.

At least the writers of Battletech got that right when they wrote the history of Battletech. Every time someone started a war they had the economic backing to support their war effort even if it was kinda sketchy. The Jihad failed because they took a long shot and bit off more than they could economically chew and the odds did not take their side. As for the Star League they had the solid backing of thousands of worlds to force the outer rim to submit and when that proved to be economically unfeasible they said s***w this and pulled back to where it was economically feasible to maintain their base of power.

If you cant keep the guns flowing you cant hold your power, the person that can keep the guns flowing will take you out.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Karagin
04/23/13 09:12 AM
72.178.85.122

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Have you looked at how the Generals and such view weapons procurement? They want the best, they end up with the second best because of cost, BUT at the same time the second best isn't cheap either. Again if you can build the vehicle with the same weapons and profile cheaper and still have all the chances of surviving then lets see it.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/23/13 09:18 AM
108.103.126.48

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You are fully aware that cant be done. I cant redesign a tank and not change anything.

What I can do is design a military force that costs less C-Bills and can defeat your tank more than 50% of the time.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!


Edited by His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey (04/23/13 09:32 AM)
Karagin
04/23/13 09:20 AM
72.178.85.122

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Then either build a better tank or take it as it is, just like the folks who buy weapons have to either find a different company that meets their needs if company A is not.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
04/23/13 09:25 AM
72.178.85.122

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Here is the level one version:

Code:
           BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED

Type/Model: Ground Hog HV
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060
Config: Hovercraft
Rules: Level 1, Standard design

Mass: 50 tons
Power Plant: 165 Nissan Fusion
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor Type: Johnston Duraweave 6000 Standard
Armament:
1 Scarborough Original 5 Autocannon/5
2 Holly-4 Pack SRM 4s
2 Browning Machine Gun Machine Guns
Manufacturer: JonTech
Location: Alma Ata, Terra
Communications System: Johnston VRR
Targeting & Tracking System: Jalastar TargiTrack 717

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Ground Hog HV
Mass: 50 tons

Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 20 pts Standard 0 5.00
Engine: 165 Fusion 0 6.67
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 3.33
Cruise MP: 8
Flank MP: 12
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 2.50
Crew: 4 Members 0 .00
Lift Equipment: 0 5.00
Armor Factor: 136 pts Standard 0 8.50

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 5 48
Left / Right Sides: 5 33/33
Rear: 5 22

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Autocannon/5 Front 0 60 2 11.00
2 SRM 4s Front 0 50 3 6.00
2 Machine Guns Front 0 200 3 2.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 0 8 50.00
Items & Tons Left: 7 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 2,267,000 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 780 (old BV = 493)
Cost per BV: 2,906.41
Weapon Value: 372 / 372 (Ratio = .48 / .48)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 13; MRDmg = 4; LRDmg = 1
BattleForce2: MP: 8H, Armor/Structure: 0 / 5
Damage PB/M/L: 2/2/1, Overheat: 0
Class: GM; Point Value: 8

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/23/13 09:35 AM
108.103.126.48

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Your redesign is not equal to the original so it does not comply with your requirments
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/23/13 09:45 AM
108.103.126.48

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I assumed your numbers where correct. They are not. A standard fusion engine weighs 6 tons and another 3 tons for Shielding. A light 165 fusion engine would weigh 3 tons with shielding of 1.5 tons.

Both designs are illegal for a hovercraft of a weight of 50 tons. You are required to have a engine weight of no less than 20% of the hovercraft.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Karagin
04/23/13 06:54 PM
72.178.85.122

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Funny thing HMVee says it is legal now unless the rules have changed you may want to check again
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
04/23/13 06:55 PM
72.178.85.122

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The redesign IS the original, the posted one for the topic was the upgrade.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
04/23/13 07:07 PM
72.178.85.122

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50*.2 = 10 now you have to split this for the engine and the shielding because it's a fusion engine so that would be

6.67 weight of the engine and 3.33 for the shielding which doing basic math of adding gives us the 10 tons, which meets the needed 20%.

Same goes for the Light Fusion engine and it's requirements. Now unless the rules have changed with the CORE rule books then I guess every single hovercraft out there is not legal based off your statement. But I am going with the math being correct on BOTH of these. And the second Hovertank I posted is the original version, the first one is the upgrade using new technology that is available to the Inner Sphere on the open markets.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
CrayModerator
04/23/13 07:12 PM
184.88.162.114

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Quote:

I don't think it needs to be slowed down at all. It is a hovercraft not a tracked tank. Speed is it's life.




Agreed. And 8/12 is kind of the default standard for 50-ton hovertanks.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
CrayModerator
04/23/13 07:29 PM
184.88.162.114

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Quote:

An army works on a budget.




Agreed, but not all budgets are created equal, and there are other factors beyond budgets - like production capacity - to consider.

Regarding budgets, a merc might look to a cheaper hover tank since they have small budgets in terms of thousands and millions of C-bills. A House, on the other hand, has hundreds of planets with average populations of hundreds of millions of people. Their budgets are far, far larger than can ever be dented by military procurement. Indeed, a typical well-off planet like New Avalon or Luthien could afford a militia the size of a front-line House military from their own tax base. The only thing holding them back are those other factors I mentioned.

Quote:

Few Quartermasters are going to wast their limited budget on some floating can when they can buy a battlemech for the same drain on their yearly budget.




Few quartermasters get everything they want, like an unlimited supply of BattleMechs. The Houses were each producing about 400 to 600 'Mechs per year in 3025 and around 2000 per year each in the 3050s, maintaining militaries that (numerically) were comparable to the major militaries of 20th Century Earth. 'Mechs did not grow on trees, they were built in a handful of limited factories.

Meanwhile, vehicle production came from separate factories, more common and more productive factories, that allowed frontline forces to carry three times as many tanks as 'Mechs, not to mention militias where tank-to-'Mech ratios were even larger. (But, still, the overall militaries were quite tiny compared to the population.)

So House military quartermasters are in a funny position: they're backed by taxbases that can throws trillions of C-bills annually at military needs, but industry simply can't deliver. When they buy all the 'Mechs on the market for a year (and lock in production contracts for decades), they still have buckets of cash leftover and are facing production shortages from tank factories, too.

So if you're going to buy a 'Mech or tank and have more money than there's production, go ahead and get the gold-plated models.

Obviously, mercs have a different economic outlook.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
CrayModerator
04/23/13 07:33 PM
184.88.162.114

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Quote:

I assumed your numbers where correct. They are not. A standard fusion engine weighs 6 tons and another 3 tons for Shielding. A light 165 fusion engine would weigh 3 tons with shielding of 1.5 tons.




Light fusion engines are 75% of the mass of a standard fusion engine, not 50% (that's an XL).

Quote:

Both designs are illegal for a hovercraft of a weight of 50 tons. You are required to have a engine weight of no less than 20% of the hovercraft.




And that's what HMVee delivered: a 10-ton engine. It is rules-legal for a hovercraft to pad out its engine weight to the 20% minimum. In that fashion, you could even make a 6/9 hovercraft with a 15-rated XXL engine and end up with a 10-ton engine. It is not efficient, but it is rules-legal.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.


Edited by Cray (04/23/13 07:34 PM)
Karagin
04/23/13 07:36 PM
72.178.85.122

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Quote:

6/9 hovercraft with a 15-rated XXL engine and end up with a 10-ton engine. It is not efficient, but it is rules-legal.




I think I will play with this idea...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
05/01/13 09:38 AM
108.103.175.234

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Quote:

Light fusion engines are 75% of the mass of a standard fusion engine, not 50% (that's an XL).




Yes I was thinking of XL. This is the first I have heard of a light fusion engine. I just assumed incorrectly that they where the same thing.

What are the other rules govern light fusion engines other than their 75% of a standard fusion engine?
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
05/01/13 10:17 AM
108.103.175.234

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Quote:

So if you're going to buy a 'Mech or tank and have more money than there's production, go ahead and get the gold-plated models.




Better yet encourage more factories to be built that can crank out large numbers of fodder vehicles so you can grow your economy. Since the Inner Sphere out right refuses to stop fighting you just cant saturate the market with military hardware.That is the bases of the economy my world that I created that Asainine Industries occupies.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
CrayModerator
05/01/13 06:56 PM
184.88.162.114

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Quote:

What are the other rules govern light fusion engines other than their 75% of a standard fusion engine?




Inner Sphere only, 2 crits in each side torso, 2x SFE price.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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