ATN082268
08/08/13 04:44 AM
69.128.58.222
|
Code:
BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Stealthy II
Tech: Mixed Tech / 3075
Config: Tracked Vehicle
Rules: Level 3, Custom design
Mass: 200 tons
Power Plant: 200 Nissan Fusion (IS)
Cruise Speed: 10.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 21.6 km/h
Armor Type: Stealth
Armament:
1 Arrow IV System (C)
6 LRM 20s (C)
4 Anti-Missile Systems (C)
1 Angel ECM Suite (C)
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Stealthy II
Mass: 200 tons
Construction Options: Fractional Accounting
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 100 pts Standard 0 40.00
Engine: 200 Fusion 0 8.50
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 4.25
Cruise MP: 1
Flank MP: 2
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 10.00
Crew: 14 Members 0 .00
Turret Equipment: 0 2.20
Sponson Turret Equipment: 0 2.20
Armor Factor: 893 pts Stealth (IS) 0 55.81
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 20 153
Front L / R Sides: 20 140/140
Rear L / R Sides: 20 115/115
Rear: 20 115
Turret: 20 115
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Arrow IV System (C) Turret 0 40 2 20.00
2 LRM 20s (C) Turret 0 40 3 16.67
2 LRM 20s (C) Lf_Spon 0 40 2 16.67
2 Anti-Missile Systems (CLf_Spon 0 30 3 2.25
2 LRM 20s (C) Rt_Spon 0 40 2 16.67
2 Anti-Missile Systems (CRt_Spon 0 30 2 2.25
1 Angel ECM Suite (C) Body 0 1 1.50
Cargo Bay Capacity Body 1 1.04
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 0 16 200.00
Items & Tons Left: 29 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 26,875,078 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,455
Cost per BV: 10,947.08
Weapon Value: 4,783 / 4,783 (Ratio = 1.95 / 1.95)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 81; MRDmg = 67; LRDmg = 43
BattleForce2: MP: 1, Armor/Structure: 0 / 33
Damage PB/M/L: 11/9/9, Overheat: 0
Class: GA; Point Value: 25
Specials: if, ecm
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Karagin
08/08/13 05:35 AM
72.178.85.122
|
And back to 200 ton pointless tanks we go...WHY does this one need BOTH Arrow IV and 6 LRMs? Too slow and the price alone one could buy a high tech uber mech for the same price. I see this thing dead in less time then it takes to say it will die.
So tell us ATN do you truly use these things in your games when you play BT?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Reiter
08/08/13 11:54 AM
142.11.67.185
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BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Untitled
Tech: Clan / 3060
Config: Tracked Vehicle
Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Mass: 200 tons
Power Plant: 200 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 10.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 21.6 km/h
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
16 LRM 20s
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Untitled
Mass: 200 tons
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 120 pts Standard 0 40.00
Engine: 200 I.C.E. 0 17.00
Cruise MP: 1
Flank MP: 2
Heat Sinks: 0 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 10.00
Crew: 14 Members 0 .00
Armor Factor: 634 pts Ferro-Fibrous 1 33.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 20 154
Front L / R Sides: 20 101/101
Rear L / R Sides: 20 101/101
Rear: 20 76
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
16 LRM 20s Front 0 120 17 100.00
1 C.A.S.E. Equipment Body 0 .00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 0 18 200.00
Items & Tons Left: 27 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 23,014,444 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 4,293 (old BV = 3,194)
Cost per BV: 5,360.92
Weapon Value: 9,850 / 9,850 (Ratio = 2.29 / 2.29)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 186; MRDmg = 147; LRDmg = 85
BattleForce2: MP: 1T, Armor/Structure: 0 / 25
Damage PB/M/L: 14/14/14, Overheat: 0
Class: GA; Point Value: 43
Specials: if
Checkmate in 2 rounds. Enough missiles to blot out the sun after about 3 salvos and eat through the armor quickly.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/08/13 12:34 PM
208.54.38.179
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One unarmored infinity man with a SRM inferno round.
I win!
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
Karagin
08/08/13 04:03 PM
72.178.85.122
|
Code:
BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Lasher 3
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3050
Config: Tracked Vehicle
Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Mass: 200 tons
Power Plant: 400 LTV Fusion
Cruise Speed: 21.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 32.4 km/h
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
44 Rocket Launcher 15 (OS)s
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Lasher 3
Mass: 200 tons
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 140 pts Standard 0 40.00
Engine: 400 Fusion 0 52.50
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 26.50
Cruise MP: 2
Flank MP: 3
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 10.00
Crew: 14 Members 0 .00
Turret Equipment: 0 4.50
Armor Factor: 352 pts Standard 0 22.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 20 70
Front L / R Sides: 20 47/47
Rear L / R Sides: 20 47/47
Rear: 20 35
Turret: 20 59
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
22 Rocket Launcher 15 (OSTurret 0 22 22.00
22 Rocket Launcher 15 (OSTurret 0 22 22.00
1 C.A.S.E. Equipment Body 1 .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 0 45 200.00
Items & Tons Left: 0 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 26,568,056 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 1,935 (old BV = 1,151)
Cost per BV: 13,730.26
Weapon Value: 3,176 / 3,176 (Ratio = 1.64 / 1.64)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 479; MRDmg = 241; LRDmg = 26
BattleForce2: MP: 2T, Armor/Structure: 0 / 16
Damage PB/M/L: -/-/-, Overheat: 0
Class: GA; Point Value: 19
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/08/13 04:03 PM
72.178.85.122
|
Better still small party digs anti-tank DITCH, end of tank.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
08/08/13 06:23 PM
184.88.162.114
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Quote:
One unarmored infinity man with a SRM inferno round.
Infernos no longer have an instant kill roll against vehicles. Instead, they inflict damage (per the Total Warfare rules on heat-inflicting weapons applied to units that don't track heat), with a chance for a critical hit.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
08/08/13 06:27 PM
72.178.85.122
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And does it say in the rules that you have to use the new twist on infernos if you do not want to?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/09/13 08:04 PM
208.54.4.142
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I know the rules where changed oh so slightly where a single infantry solder with an inferno SRM have just a really great chance of destroying a tank instead of a guaranteed chance.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
Cray
08/10/13 02:09 AM
97.101.96.171
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Quote:
I know the rules where changed oh so slightly where a single infantry solder with an inferno SRM have just a really great chance of destroying a tank instead of a guaranteed chance.
I'm not sure how it's "oh so slightly" a change when an infantryman has a "very small chance of killing a tank with an inferno" versus "very large chance of killing a tank with an inferno."
The new infernos amount to a critical hit opportunity. With a single missile, you do next to no damage and have a chance - a dice roll - of critting a vehicle. That chance to crit a vehicle does not mean, "a big chance to kill it," anymore than rolling a "2" against a 'Mech means "the 'Mech is going to die." Most vehicle crit results are inconveniences, like stunned crews or loss of 1MP.
Karagin: the old inferno rules that rendered non-'Mechs into a joke are not even printed in the new rule books. If you like combined arms, the new inferno rules should be your buddies. If you're a 'Mech nut who just wants tanks to die without a fighting chance, then the new rules are a horror that will force you to kill tanks the hard way: with damage and accumulated critical hits, instead of one cheap 2d6 roll.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (08/10/13 02:12 AM)
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/10/13 07:34 AM
208.54.4.142
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If I am up on the current rules, when a vehicle is hit with an inferno for three rounds you roll if you destroy the tank. That is not exactly that hard as your making it out to be.
When you shoot a mech with an inferno you have 0% chance of destroying the mech out right despite that mechs have a lot more surface area for the inferno fuel to stick to to heat up, and having highly vulnerable joints where the fire can easily get past armor and to burn internal mechanisms like wiring and such.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
Cray
08/10/13 02:43 PM
97.101.96.171
|
Quote:
If I am up on the current rules, when a vehicle is hit with an inferno for three rounds you roll if you destroy the tank.
Nope, you don't get any insta-kill rolls against vehicles with Infernos. Read pg 142 Total Warfare for Inferno effects against vehicles.
To summarize pg142 (and what I've told you twice already): you get a chance for a crit (roll at -2 against combat vehicles, or no modifiers against support vehicles). There's no "roll to kill vehicle" with Infernos anymore. Infernos are treated like armor piercing autocannon ammo, not insta-death weapons.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
08/10/13 03:19 PM
72.178.85.122
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I liked them better as insta-kill since it meant that you had to use tactical thinking against the group using them and it kept things even since it allowed the PBIs the chance to take down a mech or vehicle aka payback for all of the weapons that can kill them so fast and easily.
This is one revised rule my group doesn't use.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/10/13 05:44 PM
208.54.38.134
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I don't own Total Warfare and as such I cant look anything up in that book.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
Cray
08/10/13 07:38 PM
97.101.96.171
|
Quote:
I don't own Total Warfare and as such I cant look anything up in that book.
Not a problem. I've described the Inferno rules from it for your perusal without the book.
Quote:
I liked them better as insta-kill since it meant that you had to use tactical thinking against the group using them and it kept things even since it allowed the PBIs the chance to take down a mech or vehicle aka payback for all of the weapons that can kill them so fast and easily.
What do you think Infernos do to 'Mechs, Karagin, other than inconvenience them?
Edited by Cray (08/10/13 07:43 PM)
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Karagin
08/10/13 08:24 PM
72.178.85.122
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I treat them like napalm which is how the write of them has always seemed to be a logical take on them to me. How do you treat the Cray as per the rules?
Jelled fuel that is burning is not an inconvenience Cray it is a death sentence to what ever it is on.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
08/10/13 09:39 PM
97.101.96.171
|
Quote:
I treat them like napalm which is how the write of them has always seemed to be a logical take on them to me. How do you treat the Cray as per the rules?
Per the rules. See pg141 Total Warfare. I used to use the older rules of BMR, pg141, which makes Infernos lethal to vehicles but not 'Mechs.
Quote:
Jelled fuel that is burning is not an inconvenience Cray it is a death sentence to what ever it is on.
So you use home rules for Infernos?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
08/10/13 11:39 PM
72.178.85.122
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No Cray I use the rules that have Infernos being dangerous to everything, no home rules. My last line Cray was a statement of fact, jelled fuel aka napalm is deadly to everything it touches. Unless you know something otherwise.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
08/11/13 12:18 PM
184.88.162.114
|
Quote:
No Cray I use the rules that have Infernos being dangerous to everything, no home rules.
And yet you won't name the book or page number, or quote how they endanger 'Mechs.
I'm reading the rules on pg141 of BMR and 141 Total Warfare, and even in the back of 2nd edition BT. All those rules make Infernos an inconvenience to 'Mechs by adding some extra heat. 'Mechs with a small number of single strength heat sinks pretty much have to throttle back on any shooting, but will get out of the experience unharmed.
If you're away from your books, Karagin, that's no problem. I've got most of the rule books handy. Name the one you use for your Infernos and I'll quote the rules here to show that Infernos don't greatly endanger a 'Mech.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
08/11/13 12:20 PM
72.178.85.122
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BMR is what we have been using. The idea that the fires don't go out is about the only thing we seem to differ on. Are you suggesting that the inferno just goes away for the mech and doesn't last a couple of turns?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
08/11/13 03:11 PM
184.88.162.114
|
Quote:
BMR is what we have been using. The idea that the fires don't go out is about the only thing we seem to differ on. Are you suggesting that the inferno just goes away for the mech and doesn't last a couple of turns?
Nope, I don't dispute the multi-turn burn of Infernos at all. Rather, I'm addressing your comment that infernos are "a death sentence to what ever it is on." Quoting BMR pg141-142:
"The heat level of a BattleMech hit by an inferno is increased by 6 points during the Heat Phase...Additional inferno missiles hitting the same BattleMech or target hex only prolong the effect of the first hit. Thus, if two infernos hit a BattleMech, the target would suffer a heat buildup of +6 for 6 turns rather than 3."
6 heat points a turn is not "a death sentence" for most BattleMechs. It is an inconvenience that makes them withhold one medium-heat weapon per turn, or maybe "really annoying" to old skool 'Mechs with 10 single heat sinks.
Total Warfare inferno rules are quite a bit tougher on 'Mechs than that, but even then they're not "a death sentence."
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/11/13 03:28 PM
208.54.32.237
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Quote:
Total Warfare inferno rules are quite a bit tougher on 'Mechs than that, but even then they're not "a death sentence."
What are the rules for infernos attacking mechs? I don't have TW and cant look them up my self.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
Karagin
08/11/13 05:23 PM
72.178.85.122
|
6 heat can be an issue for PRE-3050 machines. Anything after the 3050 TRO and you would need a high heat low heat sink machine to make it work, but there is a catch smart players would use AMS to take out the Infernos...unless you are going with the idea that the AMS only fires on the first salvo missiles that hit the unit equiped with said AMS, so do this others let the players pick which salvos they use the AMS against.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Cray
08/12/13 06:54 PM
184.88.162.114
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Quote:
Quote:
Total Warfare inferno rules are quite a bit tougher on 'Mechs than that, but even then they're not "a death sentence."
What are the rules for infernos attacking mechs? I don't have TW and cant look them up my self.
BMR's rules are "6 heat for 3 turns, and each extra Inferno attack only adds to the length of the burn time." So, you never get over 6 heat per turn from Infernos in the BMR.
Total Warfare's "outside heat sources rules" (which also address plasma cannons, inferno bombs, etc.) on pg159 say that the maximum external heat per turn is 15 points for 'Mechs. Infernos (per pg141 TW) inflict 2 heat per missile, but they can add up heat points (rather than time). A Javelin that unloads 6 Inferno SRMs into another 'Mech would inflict 8 heat points if it hit with 4 missiles or 12 heat points if it hit with 6 missiles. If it fired the second SRM 6, it could jack up the heat delivered in one turn to 15 heat.
I exaggerated a bit when I said, "quite a bit tougher." I was mis-remembering any excess heat (over 15) inflicting armor damage, but that doesn't seem to be the case. So, it's just 15 heat maximum vs 6.
Tactical Operations pg211 also forces automatic morale checks on units hit with Infernos, if you use the morale rules.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ATN082268
04/18/18 12:18 PM
69.128.58.222
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One of my favorites... It does my heart good to see people still viewing awesome designs like this 
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AmaroqStarwind
04/18/18 12:27 PM
174.235.17.105
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Dude, insane thread necro.
Also, even one LRM-20 is too many; you should switch out each LRM-20 for 4 LRM-5s.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable. |
ATN082268
04/18/18 12:35 PM
69.128.58.222
|
Quote:
Dude, insane thread necro.
Also, even one LRM-20 is too many; you should switch out each LRM-20 for 4 LRM-5s.
It's an oldie but goodie. It's funny, most of the time when I look at the section, "Who's Online," on this forum, I see someone viewing one of my designs from years back. Brings back great memories, plus the possibility of someone using one of my designs I don't recall why I used a single launcher over multiple ones in this case. Is there an advantage to one larger launcher?
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AmaroqStarwind
04/18/18 12:54 PM
174.235.17.105
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Less heat, and fewer Artemis modules. That's it. If you're primarily doing Indirect Fire and have plenty of Heat Sinks (or are in a vehicle that doesn't track heat), stick with multiple LRM-5s, you will get a lot more flexibility (multiple targets, not wasting a mega salvo on a tiny jeep, etc), accuracy (multiple chances to hit) and endurance (crit sponges) that way, and you will even save some weight.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable. |
Retry
04/18/18 03:09 PM
64.189.130.11
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Quote:
Less heat, and fewer Artemis modules. That's it. If you're primarily doing Indirect Fire and have plenty of Heat Sinks (or are in a vehicle that doesn't track heat), stick with multiple LRM-5s, you will get a lot more flexibility (multiple targets, not wasting a mega salvo on a tiny jeep, etc), accuracy (multiple chances to hit) and endurance (crit sponges) that way, and you will even save some weight.
LRM5 spam is rather cheesy, anyways If you do nothing but spam LRM-5s on a super heavy you'll eventually run out of slots, which would be impressive since there's 45 of them on a 200-ton vehicle.
If I wanted to be a real pedantic pain in the ****, I'd say that once weighted an unaugmented LRM-20 will hit with an average of 12.6944444 missiles per successful barrage, which is 63.472222% of its 20-missile barrage. The LRM-5, once weighted via the cluster hits table, will hit with 3.16666666 missiles per barrage, which is only 63.333333% of its barrage. Since the two weapon systems have the same to-hit modifiers at all ranges but the LRM-20 has a microscopically higher % of barrage hit on a successful hit, that would make the LRM-20 more accurate.
For comparison, the SRM-2 is very accurate and hits with 1.4166666 missiles on the average successful hit, which is 70.83333% of its total barrage. The SRM-6 hits with a dead even 4 missiles, so hits with 66.66666% of its total barrage. The poor SRM-4 is the least accurate of the series, hitting with 65.97222222% of its barrage on average.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/19/18 01:07 AM
174.235.17.105
|
But four attack rolls with LRM 5s and only half of those attack rolls even landing a hit and making it to the Cluster Hits phase... is still a lot more missiles hitting the target than a single attack roll with an LRM 20 that misses entirely.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable. |
