SINGLE LARGE MISSILE ARMAMENT SYSTEM (Slammer)

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Shadrak
08/28/13 02:27 AM
174.241.192.2

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New weapons system I am thinking of introducing for my gameplay. Let me know what you think.

Single, Large Missile Armament Systems/Single Launch Missile Munition System (slammers). The slammers-type weapon systems are one-shot, light-weight systems similar to rocket launchers introduced by the various Periphery nations. In fact, slammers have been called a cross between a rocket launcher and a Thunderbolt missile system. Unlike the rocket launcher, however, the slammers is a single, high tech guided missile and it comes in three varieties, short, medium, and long range (not interchangable) and in an extended use and a disposable version. Each slammers, whether short, medium, or long range, weighs approximately .25 tons. Reloadable launchers are relatively lightweight and can be reloaded in about 2-5 minutes by an experienced tech crew provided they have the proper equipment. The disposable versions are even lighter, but the entire launch system is destroyed upon missile launch; after launch a new system can be bolted into place in 5-15 minutes by an experienced technical crew.


Game Use
The extended use and disposable systems operate in a slightly different manner; the disposable system is a point-and-shoot, fire-and-forget system that offers no particular targeting advantage. For the reusable system, the slammers targeting computer does not allow the missile to be launched unless the missile is certain to hit the intended target. Because of this, the missile will not launch unless the player successfully rolls the required roll to hit the target. A player can roll up to two times in one turn in attempting to launch the slammers, but the second attempt suffers a +2 modifier on the targeting roll. e.g.: Tom is piloting a vehicle with a reusable slammers and needs to roll a 9 or better to hit his target and rolls a 3. Tom decides to try to get his slammers to engage the enemy and quickly pulls the trigger. Tom now needs to roll an 11 or better. If he rolls an 11 he his shot will hit, if he rolls below 11 Tom will have to re-engage during the next round. This specialized targeting system (similar to Streak) is intended to effectively manage the single-shot weapon, but it results in bogging down the targeting computers of most normal combat vehicles. Vehicles using a reloadable slammers can mount up to 2 slammers weapon systems and all other weapon systems must be direct fire weapons. Integrating a slammers into the targeting system of a combat vehicle that has not been designed specifically to accept the system is a difficult process. The adapter package costs 25,000 C-Bills, but installing the programs on the targeting systems can take as much as 60 hours from an experienced technician. NOTE: Despite the fact that the slammers is capable of firing in an arc that mimics indirect fire, the slammers requires LOS between the launcher and the target. While the Reloadable system is guaranteed to hit the target (provided the slammers munition is not destroyed by an AMS), the firers of the disposable system must roll on the missile hit table for two missiles. If the result is 1 missile, the slammers misses the target. If the result is 2 missiles, the slammers hits the target. All damage from a slammers is recorded against the location that receives the hit.

SLMAS (slammers)- general data
Production Information
Type Missile
Tech Base Star League
Year of Availability 3065
Technical Specifications
Heat 13
Damage Varies
Minimum Range Varies
Range Varies
Critical Spots 1

Fight Ender (Short Range Slammers)
Damage 40
Minimum Range None
Short Range 1,2
Medium Range 3,4,5
Long Range 6,7,8
Extreme Range 9,10
Tons (Reloadable) 1.5
Tons (Disposable) 0.75
Critical Slots 1

Death Dealer (Medium Range Slammers)
Damage 24
Minimum Range 6
Short Range 1-6
Medium Range 7-12
Long Range 13-18
Extreme Range 19-24
Tons (Reloadable) 1.5
Tons (Disposable) 1
Critical Slots 1

Deadeye (Long Range Slammers)
Damage 16
Minimum Range 11
Short Range 1-11
Medium Range 12-20
Long Range 21-35
Extreme Range 36-40
Tons (Reloadable) 2
Tons (Disposable) 0.75
Critical Slots 1


INFANTRY SUPPORT SLAMMERS
This is a lighter version of the vehicle-borne Slammers missile designed to augment the infantry platoon. Slammers are generally too large and bulky to be carried by many specialized infantry teams (Jump Infantry, Airborne, etc.), but can easily be carried by Foot or Mechanized infantry. Infantry supported by Slammers cannot utilize any other organic support weapons (they may, however, use weapons mounted on vehicles or in defensive fighting positions). An infantry unit may carry 1 command unit or 1 Slammer per soldier in the element. The Slammers-I is considered a reloadable SLMAS for purposes of targeting, but the entire munition is consumed upon firing (the command unit is reusable). Because the munition must be attached to the Command Unit, and the Command Unit must obtain a lock on a target and the lock must be maintained throughout the missiles flight, the element employing the SLMAS-I must not move in the turn immediately prior to employment. The warhead and missile system can be stored and transported as a single unit, but the size of the munition is difficult for a single soldier to carry.
***STATS WILL NEED TO BE ADJUSTED AFTER I TRANSITION TO MECHWARRIOR IV AND REVIEW RULES
ITEM: SLMAS/SLMMS Slammers Infantry Munition
SKILL: SUP
EQUIPMENT RATING: D/D/E
AP & Damage 7 - 12D6 (E)
Type: 0
Range (in meters): 50/500/600/700
Shots: 1
Cos/Reload 25,000/10,000
Weight: 10 kg command unit, 15 kg warhead, 15 kg missile
Afil: NA
Notes: Blast
Battletech Stats: Each munition inflicts 3 damage and has a range of 1-2/3-12/13-20 with a minimum range of 1. Generally, 7 man infantry squads carry 2 command units and 4 munitions (4 warheads and 4 missiles) as a basic load if they are equipped with Slammers.
ghostrider
09/12/13 01:09 PM
66.74.188.151

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Damage is way to much for such a light system. Range is too far unless its set up for mech warrior, not batte tech. This system looks more like a portable nuke.

Another problem is does the heat affect vehicles/buildings using it? If so, then they wont be able to use them.

I would also say the weight is too light. Check the one shot units that are used. Also, if carried by infantry, foot infantry would not be able to carry them assembled. .25 of a ton is still 500 pounds. Dont know of many people that can carry 300 pounds for a long time in full combat gear.

The lock on, then can miss is kinda counter to each other.

Now that I think about it, this seems closer to an Arrow IV mini system. Just needs some tweaking to be a little more in line with the rest of the weapons.
Shadrak
09/14/13 09:45 PM
174.241.64.127

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Please take the time to read before commenting....commenting without reading is worthless. The damage is based on what an srm or lrm or elrm would do at a 1/4 ton with a 20% loss of damage. Range is 15% lower than Srm/lrm/elrm. Damage and range is not overpowered. Launch system is light...because an actual launch system is light....as is the rocket system already battletech cannon (frankly, os launchers in battletech are retarded), this is essentially a single shot thunderbolt system eith a light launch system and w ton of heat

The infantry version, had you read it, is 45 kg or about 100lbs and can be broken down into 1x22lb and 2x33lb packages. Damage is three and max range is slightly less than lrm.

An lrm is 8.3333 kg in battletech...this is 30 kg (nearly 4 x the weight) with 3x the damage and a slightly reduced range.

If it were clear you made the effort to read the post I would take your criticism...since you did not, I will not
ghostrider
09/14/13 11:33 PM
66.74.188.151

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Short range damage at 40 points? 24 for medium? Long range is comparable to the 20 pack lrms, so that isnt as bad. Havent see the elrm so that is completely out of my information, so for that I do apologize. This is the first ive heard of it.
Last I seen was rocket launchers, but didnt look into the specs on them. About that time the game had gotten really out of balance.

Normal lrms range to 21 max. Somehow a range of 35 before getting into the extreme range sounded off. The medium range slammers seems comparable with normal lrm 20 pack, except the 24 damage.

Now an srm 2 at one ton can do 2 or 4 points depending on the number of missles that hit. By your figures, the ammo should do only 1 point of damage for a 1/4th ton. With a range slightly less then an lrm for infantry seems out of proportions.
And doing 6 points of damage for a single volley at this range seems disproportional as well. Your stats say 2 command units with 4 shots in the unit. 2 volleys of 2. For 7 men, that beats srm equipped unit of 7.
You need 14 out of 28 men in an srm unit to do this, at a max range of 6. I need to check to see if the infantry srm is heavier then what you are saying the slammer is, it it is, then they should work on jump infantry, since they can use srms.

I reread the stats on it, and no where in there said they launcher came apart. And in your info, it said that a single soldier has problems carrying the munition, which would make one think they wouldnt be carrying part of the launcher with them.

Something to remember. You said you were looking into using this in your campaign. Use it as you like. I thought you put it up to get people to look it over and give suggestions or see if it would work right. You are the game master.
Accords12
09/15/13 08:43 AM
90.218.232.99

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My issue with this is simple balance, with the slammer SRM I see the death knell of the AC/20, the Assault Mech and the SRM. I mean, whats stopping you from fitting a few of these on a 20-30 tonner and having it zip around utterly annihilating people. The System weighs a ton and a half... its utterly insane, for that you get half an unloaded srm 6. Imagine a Javelin fitted with 5 of these, popping out of nowhere and reducing your rear armor to its constituent atoms. Atlas' would die before they even realized what was happening. Hell, fit a hunchey or blitzkrieg with 11+ of these things instead of its AC/20/ultra, after all, that is more damage than the 20 can dish out if fired once a turn, and with greater endurance (both in munitions and the fact that combat wise the weapon cant be knocked out with a single crit).
For the mid to long, they kind of make LRM packs redundant, you can fit 8! for a lrm 20 with 2 tons of ammo, and don't have clusters to be bothered about, the things will just beat down targets at crazy ranges with crazy damage. I mean, the things even have streak tech built in... its absolutely mental. The only disadvantage to these things I can see is that they have the thunderbolt missile weakness to AMS (not much an issue when you can deliver 2-3 of these at the target) and its direct line of sight, heat isn't a massive issue due to the fact they are light, streak and low crit, allowing easy use of DHS to keep em cool.

My personal opinion. 0/10 far too much munch.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
09/15/13 09:21 AM
208.54.5.141

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People did read it and rejected it as being ultra munchkin.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Shadrak
09/15/13 03:17 PM
174.241.240.91

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***EDIT***

Will create full response now that I have computer to type. Summary: All critiques thus far ineffective and signify authors' inability to fully comprehend BT rules, current systems, or the SLMAS.

***RESPONSE PENDING***

Contributions and rational critiques welcomed; weak, unjustified, retarded, or responses from mouth breathers not welcome.


Edited by Shadrak (09/15/13 05:19 PM)
Shadrak
09/15/13 03:25 PM
174.241.240.91

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Post deleted by Shadrak
Karagin
09/15/13 05:28 PM
72.178.85.122

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No what is shows is that they have their opinions about your idea, and you seem to not want to hear that folks don't like your SLAMs things. Two different things really. Either you want opinions and comments and ideas on how to improve things or you don't. You chose to share them, if you don't like them being pulled apart then I suggest not sharing them. Otherwise you have to deal with the comments and thoughts and criticism as well as praise.

Take a good look through the boards here, you will find that folks will tear apart things and offer ideas on how to rebuild or redo just about everything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Accords12
09/15/13 08:12 PM
90.218.232.99

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I'd like to think my critique was pretty on the nose to how I felt. The weapon has all the upsides of the thunderbolt missile system but none of its downsides. Munitions by weight are plentiful, damage makes assault mechs cry, heat is a limited issue due to low mass, integrated streak tech (with the crazy double chance to hit ability) and the item being hugely crit light. The weapon system changes how the games are played on the tabletop. Larger Mechs and Armor protection in general become extinct as these things hit hard enough simply not to care. Light mechs fitted with xl engines, dhs and as many SLMAS blitz around the battlefield hoping to get the lucky shot to kill their opponent before they get shot back.

With vehicles its even more an issue. Demolisher, no AC/20s, screw that its sitting tight and pointing 28 tons on SLMAS down the street and it don't care about heat build up. Saladins rocking out doing the mechs job better than they can. Hell rock out a Yellow Jacket with 8 long ranged SLMAS and watch it dominate the battlefield. No wasted ammo, no heat issues, and to top it off a slight bit more punch per shot, not that its limited to one shot per turn. Hell, they make the aforementioned light mechs redundant.

The SLMAS gets my goat because it fundamentally changes how battletech would be played. There are always shifts in the balance of power between the triumvirate of energy, missile and ballistic weapons in game. But SLMAS makes any other weapon, if not the battlemech in general redundant, things get reduced to seas of vtols and conventional armor all small and fast, pasting each other with weapons that make any armor they may be coated in redundant, so it gets taken off to mount more SLMAS. (and maybe some MG's or SPL's scattered about to dissuade infantry mischief).

At its most basic weapon, the SLMAS is a munchkins dream weapon. Light, unbelievably potent, no crit slot issues and in power to reach, stands head and shoulders over all else. And without massive limitations on the system itself, any campaign involving these would devolve into who could deploy the most of these in the biggest manner possible, to the exclusion of all else.

Its not as though I am against house ruling stuff in general, I mean hell, me and a few mates are going to play a btech RPG where we are simplifying the to hit rolls to 1d6, so thats not an issue. And the same would go with weapon systems, I am not against new weapons cropping up, tech advances in strange and wondrous ways after all, but there has to be internal consistency (in general damage to range, weight and heat with other weapons of the time). And pound for pound your weapons are not consistent with their contemporaries, they outshine them, and no calling foul that 'we just don't get it' will change that.
Karagin
09/15/13 08:35 PM
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Sounds like he wanted a one shot one kill weapon akin to real life, with limited chance coming into play.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Shadrak
09/15/13 09:25 PM
98.227.214.21

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I am sorry, my formatting will not post in this forum. My responses are between the asterisks. Karagin gets it and Accords12's most recent post is the type of critique I was hoping for...not the initial BS from guys who obviously don't read current rules and didn't spend the time reading my initial post



GHOSTRIDER: "Damage is way to much for such a light system. Range is too far unless its set up for mech warrior, not batte tech. This system looks more like a portable nuke.*************** Ranges are less than comparable SRM, LRM, and ELRM systems. Damages run at 80% of a ¼ of similar ordinace (that is 80% of SRM ¼ ton, LRM ¼ ton, ELRM ¼ ton). Minimum ranges are extended as well.****************

Another problem is does the heat affect vehicles/buildings using it? If so, then they wont be able to use them. *****************Why would a missile affect buildings, vehicles, or infantry? Do you have a copy of the rule set? The answer is in there.********************

I would also say the weight is too light. Check the one shot units that are used. Also, if carried by infantry, foot infantry would not be able to carry them assembled. .25 of a ton is still 500 pounds. Dont know of many people that can carry 300 pounds for a long time in full combat gear.

The lock on, then can miss is kinda counter to each other. ****************WOW! You really didn’t read…the lock doesn’t occur unless a hit occurs…maybe you are mixing up the reloadable and disposable…you did, after, seem to miss a lot of the information I wrote in the initial post…if you can’t read it all, maybe wait to comment.******************

Now that I think about it, this seems closer to an Arrow IV mini system. Just needs some tweaking to be a little more in line with the rest of the weapons. ******************The idea is not that this is artillery, it is a single use heavy weapon designed to kill the target…there is no reload system necessary, the ammo containment/transport system acting as the launch system**********************

GHOSTRIDER: "Short range damage at 40 points? 24 for medium? Long range is comparable to the 20 pack lrms, so that isnt as bad. Havent see the elrm so that is completely out of my information, so for that I do apologize. This is the first ive heard of it. ********************ELRM has been around as a Tech Level 3 item since 1996. How long have you been playing? Its stats are available if you look up and click on the wiki and search…not that hard to find.**********************
Last I seen was rocket launchers, but didnt look into the specs on them. About that time the game had gotten really out of balance. *****************Sooo…what you are saying is that you creep the forums, but don’t play and haven’t played since before 1996? Uhm…you know they moved the timeline up from 3025, 4th succession war, right? The Clans came in 3050 or so on the BT timeline and HUGE amounts of new tech was introduced around 3058-3065. I would recommend, if you are going to comment on BT related posts, learning about the state of affairs in BT…for example, you post on infantry in a little bit…infantry has been revamped in the 4th incarnation of BT and your post doesn’t seem in line with the rule changes or the discussions on infantry technologies.*************************

Normal lrms range to 21 max. Somehow a range of 35 before getting into the extreme range sounded off. The medium range slammers seems comparable with normal lrm 20 pack, except the 24 damage. ******************ELRMs range = Short Range 1-12, Medium Range 13-22, Long Range 23-38, Extended Range 39-44. Minimum Range 10. Again, an item introduced in 1996 for Level 3 play.******************

Now an srm 2 at one ton can do 2 or 4 points depending on the number of missles that hit. By your figures, the ammo should do only 1 point of damage for a 1/4th ton. With a range slightly less then an lrm for infantry seems out of proportions. ****************An SRM (one missile) does 2 points of damage. There are about 100 missiles in 1000kg, or 10kg per missile (in case you can’t do the math, an SRM-2 has 50 shots per ton, or 100 missiles per ton…SRM-6 is 15 shots per ton or 90 shots per ton) I don’t get what or where you get your numbers from. A single SRM missile should weigh about 10kg and a single LRM missile should weigh about 8.33 kg. Since you are referencing the Infantry SLMAS (i-SLMAS), it weighs 30kg for missile and 11kg for the control/launch unit. So the missile is MORE than 3x the size of an SRM missile and nearly FOUR times as large as an LRM.*******************

And doing 6 points of damage for a single volley at this range seems disproportional as well. Your stats say 2 command units with 4 shots in the unit. 2 volleys of 2. For 7 men, that beats srm equipped unit of 7.
You need 14 out of 28 men in an srm unit to do this, at a max range of 6. I need to check to see if the infantry srm is heavier then what you are saying the slammer is, it it is, then they should work on jump infantry, since they can use srms.********************* It is not 6 points of damage per volley…it is 3 points of damage PER missile…with a NORMAL squad carrying 1 missile and 1 CLU per 3 infantrymen. That gives an infantry squad of 7 the capability of firing two missiles IN THE ENTIRE BATTLE! NOT REPEATEDLY! (Seriously, I think some people may have a reading comprehension problem and definitely need to read the new BT books on the use of infantry and squad weapons vs individual weapons). How often can LRM infantry fire in a battle? Every round? If so, then assume that they are carrying 10 shots each…is a dude carrying 83kgs of LRMs REALLY reasonable? And need to check if the infantry SRM is heavier? OK!!! Since you are on the Sarna.net site and could look it up pretty quickly I would have thought you could have gotten that info before you posted, but let me help you: Infantry SRM: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Infantry_Weapons_and_Equipment_Lists#Missile_Based_Support_Weapons
An infantry SRM missile is 10kg, launcher is 20kg and cannon text for the RPG and Boardgame do not match…board game assumes that infantry can continuously shoot the SRM and the SRM does .63 damage per missile (with no accounting of hits or misses…this is just a statistical measure of the damage of a single missile launched by a single trooper)…so a trooper in a squad might fire 10 missiles in a battle tech battle from his 20kg launcher for a total of 120kgs of gear…along with the other 20-27 members of his platoon…I bet you think THAT makes sense. You really think jump infantry SHOULD be able to use SRMs? And the current cannon text implies they can’t despite what the board game rules allow.****************************

I reread the stats on it, and no where in there said they launcher came apart. And in your info, it said that a single soldier has problems carrying the munition, which would make one think they wouldnt be carrying part of the launcher with them. ********************Look at the weight. It says it CAN be kept together, implying that it is NORMALLY transported disassembled. It also says “Because the munition must be attached to the Command Unit…” which clearly indicates there are AT LEAST TWO PIECES. Then, in the weight, it says that there is a Command unit, warhead, and missile. It has been there since the initial post…so you are clearly wrong when you say “no where in there said they launcher came apart…”*******************

Something to remember. You said you were looking into using this in your campaign. Use it as you like. I thought you put it up to get people to look it over and give suggestions or see if it would work right. You are the game master."********************Suggestions are GREAT, retarded critiques that show that you clearly 1-don’t know or understand current BT equipment or rules and 2-didn’t read my initial post are annoying. Also, if you have a critique, having a suggestion that makes better sense is advisable…which you can’t do because you like the forum but don’t like the game.*******************

ACCORDS12: "My issue with this is simple balance, with the slammer SRM I see the death knell of the AC/20, the Assault Mech and the SRM. I mean, whats stopping you from fitting a few of these on a 20-30 tonner and having it zip around utterly annihilating people. *****************I clearly state that only 2 reusables can be mounted on a single ‘mech or vehicle…so, no, you couldn’t do what you imply. The unreloadable system might be able to do that, but the unreloadable system has to 1) Make a successful to-hit roll and then 2) Has to survive an 8+ roll on the 2-shot missile table.***************** The System weighs a ton and a half... its utterly insane, for that you get half an unloaded srm 6. *******************Yeah, and an unloaded SRM 6 includes a LOT more equipment including an automated reloading system. What does a missile launch system really consist of….I will tell you from REAL LIFE, virtually nothing. Weight of a ROCKET LAUNCHER 20 is 1.5 tons WITH Ammo.****************

Imagine a Javelin fitted with 5 of these, popping out of nowhere and reducing your rear armor to its constituent atoms. Atlas' would die before they even realized what was happening.**************** I can’t imagine a Javelin popping out with 5 of these since they are limited to 2 reloadable (which can’t be reloaded DURING a battle unless you stop for 8 to 20 rounds to let a tech team reload it)***************** Hell, fit a hunchey or blitzkrieg with 11+ of these things instead of its AC/20/ultra, after all, that is more damage than the 20 can dish out if fired once a turn, and with greater endurance (both in munitions and the fact that combat wise the weapon cant be knocked out with a single crit). *********************How you fit a hunchback with 11 when more than 2 would overwhelm the targeting system? And would you want a 5-10 million C-Bill mech to mount these, fire them at the beginning of the round and then sit around for the rest of the battle WITH NO WEAPON!?! EFFING retarded! Assuming you used the non-reloadable, would you want to mount 11 of them with only a 15 in 36 chance (40%) of EVEN IF YOU SUCCESSFULLY PASSED YOUR TO-HIT ROLL!?! COME ON! Think before you type! You might kill your target in the first round (assuming you could get within 8 hexes of them to launch your weapon), but you would have NO WEAPONS after you launched it. So…11 non-reloadables fired….you hit ALL of your to-hit rolls (yeah, right—did you ambush them from hiding?) and then only 5 out of 11 hit? THAT IS RETARDED!!!!*******************
For the mid to long, they kind of make LRM packs redundant, you can fit 8! for a lrm 20 with 2 tons of ammo ******************You could fit 8…but only 2 could be fired because 6 would be sitting out there unable to fire***************, and don't have clusters to be bothered about, the things will just beat down targets at crazy ranges with crazy damage. I mean, the things even have streak tech built in... ******************its absolutely mental. It is mental that you spend so much time writing and so little time reading…that is what is mental.******************** The only disadvantage to these things I can see is that they have the thunderbolt missile weakness to AMS (not much an issue when you can deliver 2-3 of these at the target) and its direct line of sight, heat isn't a massive issue due to the fact they are light, streak and low crit, allowing easy use of DHS to keep em cool.

My personal opinion. 0/10 far too much munch." ******************Less munchy than ½ of the weapons introduced since 3050…which you would know if you spent time reading instead of just looking at damage and weight stats****************

HIS_MOST_ROYAL_HIGHNASS_DONKEY: "People did read it and rejected it as being ultra munchkin. **************The Rotary AC is far more munchkin, as is the Ultra AC-20"***************

KARAGIN: No what is shows is that they have their opinions about your idea, and you seem to not want to hear that folks don't like your SLAMs things. Two different things really. Either you want opinions and comments and ideas on how to improve things or you don't. You chose to share them, if you don't like them being pulled apart then I suggest not sharing them. Otherwise you have to deal with the comments and thoughts and criticism as well as praise.

Take a good look through the boards here, you will find that folks will tear apart things and offer ideas on how to rebuild or redo just about everything.

************I wouldn’t have an issue if they said it was a piece of **** if they had made the effort to actually read it…it is obvious they didn’t, most of their “critiques” are addressed in my original post***********

KARAGIN: Sounds like he wanted a one shot one kill weapon akin to real life, with limited chance coming into play.
***********Yes, I believe you might have been the only who read it or maybe you are the only one capable of understanding the post**********

Does anyone on the forums actually read (the OP’s post and the current BT releases like TechManual) before they post? And how many actually play? Or have the ability complete simple math problems?


I'd like to think my critique was pretty on the nose to how I felt. The weapon has all the upsides of the thunderbolt missile system but none of its downsides. Munitions by weight are plentiful, damage makes assault mechs cry, heat is a limited issue due to low mass, integrated streak tech (with the crazy double chance to hit ability) and the item being hugely crit light. The weapon system changes how the games are played on the tabletop. Larger Mechs and Armor protection in general become extinct as these things hit hard enough simply not to care. Light mechs fitted with xl engines, dhs and as many SLMAS blitz around the battlefield hoping to get the lucky shot to kill their opponent before they get shot back.

With vehicles its even more an issue. Demolisher, no AC/20s, screw that its sitting tight and pointing 28 tons on SLMAS down the street and it don't care about heat build up. Saladins rocking out doing the mechs job better than they can. Hell rock out a Yellow Jacket with 8 long ranged SLMAS and watch it dominate the battlefield. No wasted ammo, no heat issues, and to top it off a slight bit more punch per shot, not that its limited to one shot per turn. Hell, they make the aforementioned light mechs redundant.

The SLMAS gets my goat because it fundamentally changes how battletech would be played. There are always shifts in the balance of power between the triumvirate of energy, missile and ballistic weapons in game. But SLMAS makes any other weapon, if not the battlemech in general redundant, things get reduced to seas of vtols and conventional armor all small and fast, pasting each other with weapons that make any armor they may be coated in redundant, so it gets taken off to mount more SLMAS. (and maybe some MG's or SPL's scattered about to dissuade infantry mischief).

At its most basic weapon, the SLMAS is a munchkins dream weapon. Light, unbelievably potent, no crit slot issues and in power to reach, stands head and shoulders over all else. And without massive limitations on the system itself, any campaign involving these would devolve into who could deploy the most of these in the biggest manner possible, to the exclusion of all else.

Its not as though I am against house ruling stuff in general, I mean hell, me and a few mates are going to play a btech RPG where we are simplifying the to hit rolls to 1d6, so thats not an issue. And the same would go with weapon systems, I am not against new weapons cropping up, tech advances in strange and wondrous ways after all, but there has to be internal consistency (in general damage to range, weight and heat with other weapons of the time). And pound for pound your weapons are not consistent with their contemporaries, they outshine them, and no calling foul that 'we just don't get it' will change that.

**********You are correct, but you assume that this system can be used easily and repeatedly and this indicates you didn’t read the initial post…read my response to your initial response. 2 SLMAS per mech…a weapon that basically allows you to sucker punch another Mech, possibly put him out. This is not something you run around with with 10 of them launching one at everything on the battlefield. This second post is much more well thought out and more of the response I was hoping for when I first posted the system. *************
Shadrak
09/15/13 10:13 PM
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Oh...and yes, I have made it consistent with a thunderbolt system/rocket system....Weights are similar, damages and ranges are reduced. How long would it take for a non-retarded weapons R&D team not to think "Hmmm...thunderbolts are cool...rockets are light and easy, is there any potential for a one shot system that is like technologies like HELLFIRE and TOW Missiles that existed in the 20th Century?" And, now that the main guns of an M60 Tank, M1 Abrams Tank, other MBTs have been stated for Battletech in XTRO/Retrotech (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Weapons_and_Equipment_Lists) , I have a pretty good baseline for what a missile system that launches a 1/4 ton munition would do for damage. A Hellfire (which is arguably more capable than a 120mm smoothbore cannon round) weighs 110lbs.

The idea IS to change the way a boardgame runs...to make an assault mech think twice about attacking a Locust and to slightly adjust the "Sandblaster" attrition system of current battletech games.

I think, though, that one change to the system would be to limit the number of reloadable/Streak SLMAS on a single mech/vehicle to 1 and to have the weapon exhaust do 10 damage to the launching mech/vehicle....

Non-reloadable systems, as I env1945ision them, are bolted on with an ad hoc system of targeting. I think my current rules are bulky and unwieldy. Perhaps the reloadable and single use should be separated with slightly different rules for each. I would like to see the option of taking out the SLMAS with a single hit since they would be mounted to the exterior of the 'mech/vehicle with limited (no) armor. Maybe a successful hit on a location with a SLMAS mounted results in a 10 or 25% chance of disabling the SLMAS.

That might make gameplay even more interesting...a bumblebee affect where a light mech could seriously damage a heavier mech at great risk to the lighter mech. Or a long range SLMAS might give a lighter mech the ability to have the right amount of stand off to effectively maneuver to use the convention weapon sets.
Accords12
09/15/13 10:57 PM
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But again, the issue remains, that the SLMAS is still head and shoulders above contemporaries. 'Just two' per mech is still enough to make the light mech king, a fast mover that can concentrate a hilarious amount of damage in one location, and is fast enough to get behind you? Well dead is dead, and its still packing the punch to do that to some other poor sod. (Poor sod being fellow Assault Mech)
You mention the RL-20 as a contender for mass and such being 1.5 tons loaded. But there are several key differences between the mid ranged slammer (as closest stat for stat it bears the closest look).

First, no cluster. That thing hits, it slams all 24 damage in one location which will more or less breach the side torsos of any mech under 65 tons, go much less than that and you can get severe internal structure damage thrown on too (likely popping the ST of any mech that masses 40 tons or less) the RL 20 on the other hand, hits in 5 point clusters, which means even with the big (still smaller) damage potential it more likely hits in with 12ish points of damage scattered across 3 sections.

Second is heat efficiency. The inbuilt streak tech in slammers makes them head and shoulders better than their RL 20 counterpart, when you pop off an RL, not only does its unguided **** get a penalty to hit, but it still fires on the miss, perma wasted, still genning the 5 heat, but no 'splodin enemy payoff. The slammer on the otherhand, no hit, no launch, no heat, no problem. It still nastily spikes when it hits, but then you've hit, and the problem is less shaking, as the enemy took a helluva punch for relative little heat.

Third, is crit intake, and this links nicely in with heat efficiency, the SLMAS is only 1 crit to the RL 20's 3, not that in itself is notable, for the same mass, you get 2 free crits, 4 in a 2 for 2 exchange. That leaves more crit space for other things, like dhs, more weapons, or other weight saving measures. (Hell, I'd be tempted to fit it with SRMs or RL10's and try to critseek the nice big holes knocked in the target).

On top of all this is range, yes the mid ranged SLMAS has a minimum range while the RL 20 doesn't, but it has a longer base range, and thus better range brackets combined with accuracy and heat efficiency will end with you more willing to attempt to fire them, while with the RL 20s you conserve till you get the best shot possible (or firecracker off expecting to hit nothing but scare the bejeebus out of someone).

Now for reloads, I guess the expanded time is an issue to an extent, but unless you are in full invadificated scenario you will get the time to reload between engagements, if only during maintenance before battle.

On top of that my earlier point still stands, just slightly differently, gone is the SLMAS swarm heavy vehicles and vtols, and hello to the 10 ton engines with tiny crew spaces and launch rails. If you can only mount 2 go mad, unleash 10 ton hovercraft with crazy speeds and 2 launchers, nothing to stop you, do the same with vtols. If you can deliver a knock out punch for a mech for (equivalent to their cost) pennies, why on earth would you not capitalize? Its the Savannah Master swarm, but even more utterly devastating as a lance or two of them pop to the rear of your Assault mech lance and reduce their RT's to something resembling clam chowder. (And presumably die to supporting troops or more likely zip off to base to reload and later rejoin the fight).
Shadrak
09/15/13 11:44 PM
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Quote:
But again, the issue remains, that the SLMAS is still head and shoulders above contemporaries. 'Just two' per mech is still enough to make the light mech king, a fast mover that can concentrate a hilarious amount of damage in one location, and is fast enough to get behind you? Well dead is dead, and its still packing the punch to do that to some other poor sod. (Poor sod being fellow Assault Mech)
You mention the RL-20 as a contender for mass and such being 1.5 tons loaded. But there are several key differences between the mid ranged slammer (as closest stat for stat it bears the closest look).

First, no cluster. That thing hits, it slams all 24 damage in one location which will more or less breach the side torsos of any mech under 65 tons, go much less than that and you can get severe internal structure damage thrown on too (likely popping the ST of any mech that masses 40 tons or less) the RL 20 on the other hand, hits in 5 point clusters, which means even with the big (still smaller) damage potential it more likely hits in with 12ish points of damage scattered across 3 sections.

Second is heat efficiency. The inbuilt streak tech in slammers makes them head and shoulders better than their RL 20 counterpart, when you pop off an RL, not only does its unguided **** get a penalty to hit, but it still fires on the miss, perma wasted, still genning the 5 heat, but no 'splodin enemy payoff. The slammer on the otherhand, no hit, no launch, no heat, no problem. It still nastily spikes when it hits, but then you've hit, and the problem is less shaking, as the enemy took a helluva punch for relative little heat.

Third, is crit intake, and this links nicely in with heat efficiency, the SLMAS is only 1 crit to the RL 20's 3, not that in itself is notable, for the same mass, you get 2 free crits, 4 in a 2 for 2 exchange. That leaves more crit space for other things, like dhs, more weapons, or other weight saving measures. (Hell, I'd be tempted to fit it with SRMs or RL10's and try to critseek the nice big holes knocked in the target).

On top of all this is range, yes the mid ranged SLMAS has a minimum range while the RL 20 doesn't, but it has a longer base range, and thus better range brackets combined with accuracy and heat efficiency will end with you more willing to attempt to fire them, while with the RL 20s you conserve till you get the best shot possible (or firecracker off expecting to hit nothing but scare the bejeebus out of someone).

Now for reloads, I guess the expanded time is an issue to an extent, but unless you are in full invadificated scenario you will get the time to reload between engagements, if only during maintenance before battle.

On top of that my earlier point still stands, just slightly differently, gone is the SLMAS swarm heavy vehicles and vtols, and hello to the 10 ton engines with tiny crew spaces and launch rails. If you can only mount 2 go mad, unleash 10 ton hovercraft with crazy speeds and 2 launchers, nothing to stop you, do the same with vtols. If you can deliver a knock out punch for a mech for (equivalent to their cost) pennies, why on earth would you not capitalize? Its the Savannah Master swarm, but even more utterly devastating as a lance or two of them pop to the rear of your Assault mech lance and reduce their RT's to something resembling clam chowder. (And presumably die to supporting troops or more likely zip off to base to reload and later rejoin the fight).



The last part is the real issue...you could have a player create 100 jeeps with SLMAS, despite the fact that SLMAS would be 10x as expensive as the jeep...the reason I want to introduce this at all is to make players who like to wade into battle in their ultra-modern assault mechs and directly engage targets without using the terrain on the map board to get slammed by some of the mechs they think they can beat simply because they can outlast them in a war of attrition.

How to adjust the SLMAS to prevent my players from buying a bunch of jeeps and mounting SLMAS on them?

I am thinking this adjustment to space since this system would have no exhaust venting system--perhaps the exhaust system is nearly weightless, but needs a large venting system to prevent damage to vehicle? Also, should a .25 ton missile being launched from a vehicle or mech that it 35 tons or less result in either a piloting skill roll or a negative modifier to any other weapon systems fired in that round...perhaps no other weapons can be fired in the round?

SPACE REQUIREMENTS:
Mech: 4-6 critical spots (4 in arms, 6 in torso?)
Protomech: NA
Combat Vehicle: 1 slot
Support Vehicle: 7 slots
Fighter: Not mountable internally...mountable on drop pod (takes up 5 tons of external bomb space, can only use the dummy style)
Small Craft: 1 slot
Dropship: 1 slot

This should prevent any jeep from mounting the system.

Also, since the targeting system is so complex, perhaps restrict vehicles to mounting only 1 smart SLMAS or giving a negative targeting modifier for all weapons fired by a unit mounting a SLMAS. If the modifier was high enough (+3 or +4) lift the numerical restriction on smart SLMAS....+3 modifier and you can add as many smart SLMAS as you want? With a 4 crit arm and 6 crit torso that would be 8 SLMAS using all normal side torso and arm slots with no possibility for mech lightening technology...restricts heavy use to old-style mechs.


The other thing I don't want is players building a cheap, heavy LRM style weapon system and mounting 60 long range SLMAS to engage at two map sheets...I need to figure out a way to prevent this while allowing a single vehicle or mech to reach out and touch someone who thinks they can use rotary AC 2s, clan ER LL and Light Guass to beat every low-tech opponent I put against them in a campaign.
ghostrider
09/16/13 03:23 AM
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With this system, defensive units are not necessary, since you could mount tens, maybe hundreds of the systems on a single building. Every 2 systems can have its own targetting computer in a building.
Now lets get into some variants.
Use them as command detonated mines. How many munitions could you place in a field?
Have remote targetting and launching of the system, making an entire valley including the hillsides as a way to destroy not only mechs, but dropships in range.
There are other potential abuses of the system, but with these 2, why worry about other weapons. As part of a defensive building, you could reload them as you use them. Mount 2 systems on a Savanha Master, and hit-run-reload all day long. At this point, why even bother with mechs? Guess bombarding the planet from orbit would be the only way to defeat it.

I have the books from 3055. After that, alot of hobby shops in arizona didnt carry battle tech much.

Now before you start complaining about people commenting on your system, reread it yourself. You did not explain alot of things properly, such as 1 infantry can carry the command or slammer. There you said the 7 had 2 command units. At one per infantry, that means the other 5 can carry a slammer each. With 2 command units, which sounds like a launcher, you could fire 2 missles. With a possible 5 missles, or so the slammer sounds like, thats 2 per round for 2 rounds with a single one left over.

Now, you complain about me being behind the times and stupid, but even I can see this system is not anywhere close to playable in a normal game. Now if you think this system will be fun for the game, then you have played it and arent that good, or you dont like actually having to use tactics to play a good game.

Make an assault mech cry with a locust? Since you think Karagins assessment of your system is on the spot, you put this in to cause an uproar, since this is so out of balance to the game. I really thought rockets and rotary cannons and now the heap ac rounds, gyroscopic ac rounds and such are just too much garbage for the game. Cannon rules like natural apptitude that allows 3d6 for gunnery is bs. Using supplements, the Kell Hounds have the stealth skill that unbalances the game as well.The newer stuff is part of why I stopped dealing with battletech, since it started becoming nothing more then higher damage, stand and deliver play instead of having to survive by using your brain.

Now you dont like the long range weapon use and want to allow light units to engage in combat. How about using real terrain in battles, such as limited open areas so they cannt sit at 20 hexes and fire away? Try city battles, with very few long roads? Are your players part of a house or merc unit? Supplies arent always availible. Maybe even have the enemy use the same weapons against them with more availible to the enemy. Play an actual campaign with limited supplies. Oh my. You depleted the lrms in the first battle and cannt get anymore for a few weeks. Gee, the enemy is closing in on you for a raid now.
ghostrider
09/16/13 03:36 AM
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Also, you may want to watch how you word things, since using terms like retarded, and saying things like your stupid, will get you a time out on the forums.

I still havent seen where you got your damage/range from if this is a serious post.

If it is a one shot to kill all, troll post, then you should avoid posting things like this in the future.

One more thing. 20 hexes is 600 meters. Your example of being shy of lrm range for the infantry, but having a range of 700 meters is off.

If you want mega damage game, try robotech or something else. A single volley of missles can destroy the enemy. A particle beam cannon does 50+1to25 points of damage. Most units have 200 damage capacity to the main body, where most damage hits.
Shadrak
09/16/13 12:11 PM
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Quote:
With this system, defensive units are not necessary, since you could mount tens, maybe hundreds of the systems on a single building. Every 2 systems can have its own targetting computer in a building.
Now lets get into some variants.
Use them as command detonated mines. How many munitions could you place in a field?
Have remote targetting and launching of the system, making an entire valley including the hillsides as a way to destroy not only mechs, but dropships in range.
There are other potential abuses of the system, but with these 2, why worry about other weapons. As part of a defensive building, you could reload them as you use them. Mount 2 systems on a Savanha Master, and hit-run-reload all day long. At this point, why even bother with mechs? Guess bombarding the planet from orbit would be the only way to defeat it.

I have the books from 3055. After that, alot of hobby shops in arizona didnt carry battle tech much.

Now before you start complaining about people commenting on your system, reread it yourself. You did not explain alot of things properly, such as 1 infantry can carry the command or slammer. There you said the 7 had 2 command units. At one per infantry, that means the other 5 can carry a slammer each. With 2 command units, which sounds like a launcher, you could fire 2 missles. With a possible 5 missles, or so the slammer sounds like, thats 2 per round for 2 rounds with a single one left over. 1 per infantry is possible, but that would be more of a static position since 1 person would be carrying a 40kg missile...realistically, it would be 1 shot per 3 infantrymen...I don't know if you are tracking support weapon rules, but this is a modification that makes an infantry squad more like a battle armor squad for weapon/ammo tracking--see page 152 of TechManual, infantry unit construction: support weapons in an infantry squad. Since I don't want the squad running around for 30 turns firing a total of 30 SLMAS, I want it set up more like a Battle Armor weapon system rather than an infantry support weapon. A squad can carry 2 support heavy lasers for 3 damage each round for 15 hexes. With the SLMAS, the squad can do a total max damage of 12 pts (probably 6 damage) out to 20 hexes, but they can't do it for 30 rounds, that 12 or 6 pts is expended all at once. Then they go to their primary, anti-personnel weapons. The SLMAS stats for TechManual would be along these lines:
Type: SLMAS
TechBase: IS
Class/Type (Damage Type): Medium/Support (Ballistic)
Base Range: 6
Damage (each): 3
Weight of Weapon/Ammo (Shots): 10.0 kg/30.0 kg (1)
Crew: 3
This switches a platoon to having an option of doing 40 or so pts of damage in 1 shot if I were conducting it like normal infantry, then doing 2 or 3 points out to 6 hexes for the rest of the fight.
Right now, standard rules allow infantry to repeatedly use their support weapons without tracking ammo


Now, you complain about me being behind the times and stupid, but even I can see this system is not anywhere close to playable in a normal game. Now if you think this system will be fun for the game, then you have played it and arent that good, or you dont like actually having to use tactics to play a good game.

Make an assault mech cry with a locust? Since you think Karagins assessment of your system is on the spot, you put this in to cause an uproar, since this is so out of balance to the game. I really thought rockets and rotary cannons and now the heap ac rounds, gyroscopic ac rounds and such are just too much garbage for the game. Cannon rules like natural apptitude that allows 3d6 for gunnery is bs. Using supplements, the Kell Hounds have the stealth skill that unbalances the game as well.The newer stuff is part of why I stopped dealing with battletech, since it started becoming nothing more then higher damage, stand and deliver play instead of having to survive by using your brain. Getting a player group together now is much more difficult than it was in 1995 and most players who are willing to play want to play with the new systems...I understand because the old system is a lot slower, but the new system has allowed players to build Assault mechs that have high mobility, max armor, and top-notch weaponry...and these aren't just home-grown house mechs, these are coming straight out of the the TROs. So, I agree with you in your assessment of the new stuff, but I need something that can level the playing field while enabling me to use the combined arms forces that should represent militia/garrison/pirate troops without allowing 4 players running less than a company of mechs to run over what amounts to 1/2 of a regimental combat team. I have tried to use the logistics rules (and introduced some of my own) as well as things from Strategic Ops, but the system still allows 80-100 ton 3065 mechs to kill 1 or 2 companies of normally weighted 3050 mechs by simply coming straight at them. If you are playing campaign style that leaves a couple of unsatisfactory options: Giving ALL forces 3065 mechs, creating regimental-sized militia forces to defend a small, strategically insignificant objective, or giving militia troops 2/3 or better gunnery and piloting skills.

Now you dont like the long range weapon use and want to allow light units to engage in combat. How about using real terrain in battles, such as limited open areas so they cannt sit at 20 hexes and fire away? Try city battles, with very few long roads? Are your players part of a house or merc unit? Supplies arent always availible. Maybe even have the enemy use the same weapons against them with more availible to the enemy. Play an actual campaign with limited supplies. Oh my. You depleted the lrms in the first battle and cannt get anymore for a few weeks. Gee, the enemy is closing in on you for a raid now.

That is a pretty good idea, but there are some limitations. First, I don't want to run all city battles--that's what I have been doing a lot of so far, and I have reused so many map sheets they now treat some like places they can find strong spots and camp out like a Black Ops video-game sniper. Since they are running assault mechs with jump jets and more recently introduced weapons have extended range profiles, they are just as good in city as out of city. Player current set up is 4 players with 8 'mechs, a highered technical staff of 1 tech and 1 astech/mech, and 1 platoon of infantry/security in a Union dropship--a Black Thorns-type crew and the ability to purchase and carry almost 700 tons of supply. I require them to carry all classes of supply, but 784 tons allows the roughly 60 personnel in the task force to outlast most campaigns...carrying 300 tons of parts (identified by type like gyro systems, jump jets, etc)...and most of the supplies are, by game rules, interchangable for at least 6 of the mechs.

I have even tried a small campaign where they had to insert a small team with no outside logistical support and gave them a small budget to purchase supplies. Using the supplies and availability codes available in the RPG, players were able to find work-arounds to meet almost all supply needs and had switched out ballistic weapon systems for energy weapons (all meeting the current requirements for rules).

So, yes, the game rules and technology are different then what you are used to playing or what the game was initially--when a battlemech was essentially a piece of lostech, not when there were 150 factories pumping out 150,000 mechs a year. Back when Mechs were the kings, but conventional infantry and vehicles mattered


Now, the total damage, I will allow, might change the dynamic of a battle too extremely. If the danger of this system were not the damage but the chance to crit without an armor breach

I will post a modified SLMAS using current rules. My intent is to make conventional/old style weapons viable by inserting a single weapon system that will make a player think twice about charging against a mech that they think they can easily overwhelm
CrayModerator
09/16/13 05:20 PM
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Ghostrider wrote:
Quote:
Cannon rules like natural apptitude that allows 3d6 for gunnery is bs.



There was never a straight 3d6 for gunnery. Mechwarrior 2nd Edition used a "best 2 out of 3".

Quote:
The newer stuff is part of why I stopped dealing with battletech, since it started becoming nothing more then higher damage, stand and deliver play



The damage creep mostly halted around 1990 with the introduction of the basic Clan gear. Most new weapons only equal, in their own ways, existing weapons and balance out with various foibles like high heat or to-hit penalties.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
CrayModerator
09/16/13 05:29 PM
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Just a reminder to any participants feeling a bit warm under the collar:
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/154790/an/0/page/0#154790

Watch any pejorative word choices. Talk to the ideas, don't flame the person. And better yet, don't flame the idea, either. You might not directly insult someone, but rules 6, 7, 8, and 10 can still get you a warning or ban.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Karagin
09/16/13 07:15 PM
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Really? Binary Laser and some of the other stuff that has come along kind reaches into the land of munchy and lingers as do some of the prototype/Dark Age Common weapons and tech. Stealth Armor and such on a 3 story tall robot lumbering around the battlefield is a bit much to believe.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
09/17/13 12:47 AM
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I didnt take offense with what was said. Just reminding people to keep it from getting personal.

The 3d6 is the best 2 of 3, but its still toooo unbalancing and really messes with the game. Same when people start trying to get skills in the negative, though this is not cannon.

Now another thing you can do with your uber party is have them run into another merc unit or 2 that has the same level tech, or use other units like strafes and such. Having them sit in hidey holes, and you dont have any suprises in them is a shock. Should be mines in the area, possibly use the mac supplemental and use some of the buildings they have there such as the backstab bunker. It fires things like ac 20s at back sides of mechs that go by, and uses baffles so they are hard to detect. Maybe even use ecm to block all scans. Infantry hidden in bunkers plus pre plotted artillery is a good way to encourage movement or do some good damage.
Also send them on a raid with no ammo resupplies availible, and the enemy doesnt stock ammo they dont use. Another scenario is have the raided hire someone to hit back. Another possible thing is hit the dropship as its coming in for a landing. Standard game master problems. Players find ways around alot of issues.

Another nasty suprise is using ultra 20s or even several srm carriers in hiding at the hidey holes. Open areas are great for Saladars to run.

As I said. If you are serious about the system, it needs some tweaking to keep it in line with normal games. Now if you want to use it as it is in your game, thats your choice with being game master. Most of the stuff here seems to try to stay in line with the cannon rules.

The missle according to the first post looks to be 30 kg assembled. A little lighter to carry.
Now for more questions.
Would running ecm counter the strike? (this might make it completely useless if your group is as advanced as it sounds.)
Is it compatable with c3 systems?

Are the mechs they use modified mechs? Or did you have them custom built?
And wouldnt you have bunkers set up so they could have ammo readily availible for use, such as using the bunkers for lauching them?
Shadrak
09/17/13 01:49 AM
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The problem is that I would have to run uber mercs everytime or use uber weapons all the time...

The missile is not compatible with C3...new posting posted. Should work to fix most weaknesses, while making lighter vehicles and mechs more dangerous.
CrayModerator
09/17/13 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Really? Binary Laser and some of the other stuff that has come along kind reaches into the land of munchy



There were a few new weapons I could've called munchy, but you had to pick on the binary laser, which rides to the game on the same short bus as the bombast laser.

A binary laser does all of 2 more points of damage than a standard, old-fashioned PPC but generates 6 more points of heat, has 3 hexes less range, weighs 2 more tons, and uses 1 more crit. I can't call that munchy. In fact, I'd always take a regular PPC over a binary laser because, chances are, I could fit two regular PPCs on a 'Mech for the problems induced by a binary laser.

I agree with the TacOps write-up: it's a dead-end. Every time the binary laser was invented during the Succession Wars (and there were several times when it was developed, since it was basically two lasers), it flopped because of overwhelming heat problems (while the regular PPC and regular large laser remained quite useful). Then in an era of DHS, it's obsolete in comparison to weapons that do about the same damage but have better range, sometimes far better range, like the regular PPC, ER PPC, ER LL, and Heavy PPC (not to mention the Clan lasers.)
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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