possible old question

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ghostrider
09/04/13 12:56 PM
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What is the cannon rule for crits on vehicles?

I know there was a table to see if a crit happened on mechs, that required a roll of 7+. but does this table apply to vehicles?

I would think so, otherwise large vehicles would be pretty worthless to use.
Also, where can you find info on how sensors, and detection works in battle tech?
Maybe I didnt read the books all the way, but most of the older ones never had the information in there. Didnt see much about sensors except ecm jams them and probes are better.
CrayModerator
09/05/13 06:19 PM
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The current rules are in Total Warfare.

A lot of crits apply to vehicles simply as a result of rolling against the hit location chart. You roll a side location hit, some side location rolls result in automatic mobility damage.

Total Warfare pg192-194 addresses this. If you roll a hit location that includes (critical), you flip to the Ground Vehicle Critical Hit (p. 194) and roll on there. Alternately, if you damage internal structure on a vehicle, you roll on that table for a crit. In either case, there's no ifs, ands, or buts. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, you roll for a crit on crit table.

But.

The Ground Vehicle Critical Hit Table results in "no crits" on a roll of 2-5.

Unlike the 'Mech system, where you have to roll at least three times (once to hit; once to confirm a critical; and then once to figure out what crit), combat vehicles combine that into two rolls (once to hit, once to confirm a crit and simultaneously what crit resulted).

There's also the separate Motive System Damage "crits," which are handled similarly. If you roll on a hit location that calls for a roll on the Motive System Damage Table (p. 193), you roll there and hope you roll low.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
ghostrider
09/06/13 12:26 PM
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Cool on the crits. I kinda figured that was the way it happened. Bites, but oh well.

Now the question about sensors. I dont remember seeing anything in the normal books on how they worked. Also seen in the written areas on mech about things like the pheonix hawk having great comms system, but nothing about how good. Ecm is good for 6 hexes, but havent seen detection.
CrayModerator
09/06/13 08:58 PM
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Look up the Beagle Active Probe and Clan Active Probe. They should be in the same books as ECM.

If a 'Mech or vehicle doesn't have an Active Probe, it doesn't have any special sensor capabilities.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
ghostrider
09/07/13 10:28 PM
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Doesnt say how normal sensors work.
How far does the normal ones find things (no los)?

How does buildings affect them? Sensor baffles? Normal woods (more then los)?

Some of the scout tanks like the pegasus is supposed to have good sensors, but dont see anything about range, size of unit, movement and the like. Even the old Ostscout was supposed to have great sensors, but havent found anything that tells range and other factors.

A powered down mech is supposed to be harder to spot, but whats the normal number to find a powered mech?

This is the thing I wanted to know.
Karagin
09/08/13 12:54 AM
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Make it up.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
09/08/13 04:41 PM
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Didnt know if they had a cannon way of doing it. Im sure they have something they used for tournaments that have hidden movement. Would be good for the next set to contain something that might be an optional way.

Thanks for the responces though. Wanted to find out if I missed it in the books I have, or might have to get.
CrayModerator
09/08/13 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Doesnt say how normal sensors work.
How far does the normal ones find things (no los)? How does buildings affect them? Sensor baffles? Normal woods (more then los)?



See p. 259 Total Warfare: Hidden Units. For more complicated rules addressing visual and sensor spotting and detection ranges, see Tactical Operations p. 220, Double Blind rules.

Quote:
A powered down mech is supposed to be harder to spot, but whats the normal number to find a powered mech?



See the Visual Range Table (p. 221 TacOps) and Sensor Range Table (p. 222). There's a lot of options and modifiers depending on unit type and sensor type.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
ghostrider
09/09/13 02:20 PM
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have to break out the old books. Not sure I have either of the ones mentioned.

Thanks for the info.
CrayModerator
09/09/13 06:25 PM
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I know Double Blind rules have been published previously. I thought BMR, but not there.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Karagin
09/09/13 09:51 PM
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Tactical Handbook had them I believe
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
skiltao
09/10/13 12:57 PM
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Double Blind rules appeared in Maximum Tech, Tactical Handbook, and (predating both) in one or more of the official fan magazines.

The old TR:3026 had rules for remote sensors and sneak suits. Not sure what you'd use it for in a standard scale game of BattleTech, but it did cover sensitivity, range and accuracy for the most common types of sensors. I think equivalent rules appear in the 2nd edition RPG's MechWarrior Companion, third edition's Lostech supplement, and fourth edition's primary rulebook (A Time of War).

The various editions of BattleForce doubtless say something about detecting & identifying forces as well, though probably in less detail.

The Ostscout's sensors are used for mapping rather than identifying targets, which makes it a special case; the old "Tricks of the Trade" article (Dragon magazine, maybe reprinted elsewhere?) gives it penalties to noticing other 'Mechs.
CrayModerator
09/10/13 06:31 PM
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Quote:
The Ostscout's sensors are used for mapping rather than identifying targets, which makes it a special case; the old "Tricks of the Trade" article (Dragon magazine, maybe reprinted elsewhere?) gives it penalties to noticing other 'Mechs.



Strategic Operations "Quirks" rules also address fluff-based sensor advantages (among others). It was deliberately meant to be a modern, rules-based "quirk system."

The Dragon article gave guidance not particularly compatible with modern game play - as I recall, 90km (180 boards) detection range for a good sensor system, rather than 6 hexes for a Beagle Active Probe.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
ghostrider
09/10/13 07:28 PM
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Not everyone got the fan magazines, so was looking for other books. I remember the sneak suits, but thats more for mech warrior, not the main game, though it could be used in normal battle tech.

Havent seen 4th edition rules, so cannt comment on that.

The beagle probe info might have been just a mistake on range, since 6 hexes is supposed to be 180 meters. This might account for the inaccuracy. They might have based the normal sensors on a 90 meter range and put in the km instead of meters. Typos are known in alot of the dungeons and dragons materials.

Havent been able to get into the old books yet, since other things have come up.
Karagin
09/10/13 11:44 PM
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No Cray they gave realistic play for the sensors which doesn't fit with the LIMITED take and style of the BT weapons designed to keep things down to a scale of small map fights. The rules will work well for those who want use miniatures and allow for longer ranges of weapons, which can be found in many fan based magazines and fanzines like Future Wars and others like Far and Away.

Quriks don't say fun and cool things to me, they say annoying not so good things.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
09/10/13 11:45 PM
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Dragon was a magazine for the D&D but it covered other games from time to time, had some nice articles on the use of mechs and ideas on how to build better ones.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
skiltao
09/11/13 12:02 AM
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Ghostrider, I hope you find one of the books with Double Blind rules, they do sound like what you're looking for.

The thing about the Beagle is that it has two ranges: a normal one for detecting hidden units, and then a somewhat longer one under Double Blind rules for detecting non-hidden units. Those rules assume your sensors mostly blocked or jammed, though; I don't think they give anything a better range than simple visual sensors (which get 60 hexes, or about 2km).

Cray, are kilometer-scale maneuvers not "modern"? Because that's what scouts and sensors (and BattleForce) are for...


Edited by skiltao (09/11/13 12:04 AM)
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