Shadrak
09/17/13 12:19 AM
98.227.214.21
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SLMAS Single Launch Missile Armament System (Revised)
Thank you to ghostrider, Karagin, and Accords12 for your detailed and thought out input. I think I have will have adjusted the system to counteract any weaknesses you have identified.
Comments and suggestions welcomed, but make sure you have carefully read the supporting text and the baseline stats. If you can’t be bothered to read the text, I can’t be bothered to take your input seriously.
Intent of the design: Create a light weight, single shot weapon that can be mounted on light mechs and weapons that will make them more relevant on the battlefield. In my opinion, the current status of Battletech is that new technologies enable front-line units with top tier equipment to so dominate garrison/secondary/pirate troops that these secondary troops are in many ways pointless on the battlefield. The current state of the Inner Sphere industrial complex has resulted in a glut of Mechs and Mech designs when Mechs were rare and valuable in 3025. In 3025 a Panther had value as a fighter on the battlefield, as did a Galleon tank because assault ‘Mechs were rare (‘Mechs in general were rare). Because of Mech design rules, virtually any weapon system of value must be mounted on a mech with either advanced weight saving technologies or Mechs that weigh more than 50 tons. Why is this? For example, why would you want to install a Thunderbolt 20 on a mech or weapon that wouldn’t be expected to expend more than 2 or 3 shots let alone 2 or 3 tons of ammo, why include a complex reload system on a Thunderbolt 20…why not just use it as a one-shot system like a rocket launcher? Do you need a large launch system for a missile? We know this is not a fact, and we can assume that the major weight requirements for a missile system is not the launcher itself, but the automatic reloading systems. On top of this, we have protomechs and battle armor that are utilizing weapon systems allow a single LRM (1 damage, 21 hex max range) be installed for 45 kg or a single SRM (2 damage, 9 hex max range) be installed for 45 kg…in an environment like this, what is the value of a 20 ton mech? What is the value of a 20 ton mech with 3025 technology? Wouldn’t innovators be motivated to adapt these systems to make their old equipment more relevant? Especially after 30 years of technological innovations in other fields?
The SLMAS system consists of three components: A control unit, the laucher/munition, and the exhaust system. The SLMAS comes in 3 flavors, short, medium, and long. The control unit comes in two types, a basic and an advanced computer add-on.
Control Units:
Basic control unit: The basic control unit can control up to 2 SLMAS, and they must both be the same type of SLMAS (2 shorts, 2 mediums, or 2 longs). The basic control unit is a .5 ton piece of equipment that takes up 1 critical slot in a ‘mech, 1 slot in a combat vehicle, or 1 slot in a support vehicle. The control unit enables the SLMAS to act like a Streak System…that is, the SLMAS will not fire unless a guaranteed lock & hit is achieved. The basic control unit does not fully integrate with any known targeting control system, so until the SLMAS are fired and the computer is de-activated, all non-SLMAS attacks suffer a +2 penalty to-hit. The SLMAS boot system requires the entire ‘Mech or vehicle control system to be booted at the same time; there is no ability to turn-off and turn-on a SLMAS during combat without taking the entire control system offline. For most ‘Mechs and vehicles, it takes a minimum of 5 minutes to reboot a command and control computer, so rebooting an entire system would leave a ‘Mech in a shutdown status for 20 turns before the SLMAS could come back on line. In the event that the control unit is disabled by a critical hit, the SLMAS may be manually fired with a +4 to-hit modifier to a maximum range of 2 hexes, and the ‘Mech or vehicle pilot uses his piloting skill rather than his gunner skill to launch the munition.
Advanced control unit: The advanced control unit can control up to 4 SLMAS, and all 4 SLMAS must be the same type (4 shorts, 4 medium, 4 long). The advanced control unit is a 2 ton piece of equipment that takes 1 critical slot in a ‘mech, 1 slot in a combat vehicle, and 1 slot in a support vehicle. It generates 2 points of heat every round. Because of the redundancies in the computer systems, normal weapons do not suffer a to-hit penalty like the basic control unit, but the heat is generated whether the SLMAS are fired or not. Like the basic control unit, the entire ‘mech or vehicle control system must be taken offline to deactivate the control unit.
Launcher/Missile:
The launcher is a lightweight (250kg) item that is basically a housing tube. The missile is a single, large (3 meter, 750kg) missile that consists of a dual-stage armor penetrating warhead and the missile; the missile is designed as an armor defeat system where one warhead breaches the target’s armor and the second warhead damages the target’s internal structure (similar to AP Autocannon ammo). The total system is 1 ton and takes up 1 critical space in a ‘mech’s arm or torso (may not be mounted in a leg or on a head), 1 slot in a combat vehicle, or 2 slots in a support vehicle. The difference between the 3 missiles is basically the balance between the size of the warhead and the size of the missile. A critical hit to the missile results in a 50 damage explosion as from an ammunition explosion.
Exhaust system: The exhaust system is interesting in that it has no weight, but takes up a great deal of space. Essentially, the interior of the mech or vehicle is modified to allow hot gases to be vented out and around critical components. The exhaust system for each SLMAS is 0.0 tons, but consumes 2 critical slots in a mech, or an additional slot in a combat vehicle. It counts as 4 slots in a support vehicle. Additionally, if a mech or vehicle is not purpose built to accept a SLMAS it automatically suffers a critical hit to the limb or torso section in which the SLMAS is mounted to represent the structural weakness of removing structural components to vent gases; the limb or torso’s maximum armor must be adjusted as well. Mechs and vehicles purpose built to mount a SLMAS do not suffer this penalty. If a SLMAS exhaust system suffers a critical hit there is no immediate damage to the ‘mech or vehicle. If, however, the SLMAS has not been fired the ‘mech or vehicle will suffer 10 points of internal damage to the limb or torso section in which the SLMAS is mounted and any ammo (including other SLMAS) will explode.
Combat stats:
Type: Missile
Tech Base: Star League
Year of Availability: 3065
Heat (all models): 15
Damage: Per model
Range: Per model
Critical Spots: Mechs: 1 for control unit, 1 for launcher/missile, 2 for exhaust system.
Combat Vehicles: 1 slot for control unit, 1 slot for launcher/missile, 1 slot for exhaust system
Support Vehicles: 1 slot for control unit, 2 slots for launcher/missile, 7 slots for exhaust system
Weight: Launcher/missile: 1 ton, Control unit: 1 or 2 tons, Exhaust system: none
Fight Ender (Short Range Slammers)
Damage 15 to external armor, 3 to internal structure
Chance to crit: roll on critical hit table with +1 modifier
Minimum Range None
Short Range 1-2
Medium Range 3-5
Long Range 6-8
Extreme Range 9-10
Death Dealer (Medium Range Slammers)
Damage 10 to external armor, 2 to internal structure
Chance to crit: roll on critical hit table with no modifier
Minimum Range 6
Short Range 1-6
Medium Range 7-12
Long Range 13-18
Extreme Range 19-24
Deadeye (Long Range Slammers)
Damage 5 to external armor, 1 to internal structure
Chance to crit: roll on critical hit table with -2 modifier
Minimum Range 11
Short Range 1-11
Medium Range 12-20
Long Range 21-35
Extreme Range 36-40
Infantry SLMAS--I am still trying to figure out how to use an infantry SLMAS with Total Warfare rules where ammo is a non-issue. For infantry, the launch system should be light but the munition should be heavy and the current rules don't seem to allow for this.
Right now I am thinking:
Weapon: iSLMAS
Tech Rating: Inner Sphere
Class/Type (Damage): Medium/Support (M)
Base Range: 4
Damage: .1 each
Critical chance: Roll 2D6+(1/active iSLMAS-6) on critical table. A full platoon of 28 with 8 iSLMAS would roll 2D6+2 (8-6). A squad with 2 iSLMAS would roll 2D6-4 (2-6).
Weight of Weapon/Ammo (Shots): 20kg/30kg
Special restrictions: Cannot be used by jump or airborne infantry.
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Accords12
09/17/13 12:19 PM
90.218.232.99
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This is definitely more like it, accurate and giving respectable damage but weighty, more crit thirsty and has definite downsides in heat and effects on other attached systems.
I do like the integration of the tandem missile system in there as well. It gives the weapon an interesting special rule that stings but does not utterly cripple.
New review 6/10 would try out (does not have playtesting marks until I've given em a whirl).
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Shadrak
09/17/13 05:11 PM
174.255.83.142
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My hope is that, despite a "modern" assault mech mounting almost 20 tons of armor, this will enable an opponent to hit an assault mech (and probably still lose), but the assault mech pilot no longer simply walks off the field and repairs 20K C-Bills worth of armor after a 30 turn slugfest while 6 x 2-5 million C-Bill machines lie destroyed on the battlefield.
One major draw back is that it is complicated to use and would slow gameplay, but I don't know how this trades off against not having to sandblast 20 tons of armor off of an opponent before you really affect their ability to fight.
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Accords12
09/17/13 06:49 PM
90.218.232.99
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I see where you are coming from, but my thoughts differ quite heavily for the most part. You seem to be looking from the perspective of getting the light mechs into the scrap with enemy line units. My general philosophy is somewhat different, the battlefield is dominated by mids plus because they are the line units, line units mount the big hitters because they are expected to be slugging it out on the front line. And to me, the lights job is not to even attempt to fight in such an environment, the light mech is by its very nature suited to the roles of harasser (e.g Valkyrie) the ambusher (e.g Javelin) or recce (e.g Raven) and the general best way for light elements to engage heavier mechs (something that is kind of worst case scenario in itself) is to TAG em up for friendly Arrow IV spankings. Personally I'd get them to run the hell away, but stuff happens.
As for your above mention of an assault busting six lights to pieces with minimal damage... what were the lights even doing going directly for an assault in the first place? Best thing they could do would be disengage but keep under observation, all the while keeping command informed of the location of an enemy assault asset (if things go well enough command could dispatch something to deal with it and the lights wander off to ruin someone else's day with their super radios and uber maps)
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Shadrak
09/17/13 08:03 PM
174.255.83.142
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I consider anything below about 45 tons as light when it comes to the 70-100 ton monsters that move 5-8-5 or 4-6(8)-4 and a min/maxxed-optimized for killing. What's the point of having a light mech if they can't get into range to do their job? A heavy mech mounting 2 guass rifles or 3 or 4 ER PPCs or 4 light guass rifles that can move 4-6-4 is easily going to kill off a Clint running around trying to snipe back. What do I do? Balance tonnage? Balance BV? Neither of those options fit in line with the campaign...and if you can easily walk over anything in your path, what is the fun in playing?
Battletech now is a lot like Knights of the Dinner table, where everyone has a +12 Sword of Destruction in their back pockets....
As far as that Raven with TAG is concerned....do you think it could effectively get within range to employ TAG? And do you think that a low level garrison is going to have TAG let alone Arrow systems? Why would you think that the command has something that can deal with an enemy assault asset?
What would be nice is if the game stated out some the unconventional weapon systems alluded to in the fiction like IEDs, Mechtraps, etc.
Why in the battletech universe is it allowable in fiction to take down a mech with a knee capping charge of 5kg of C8 explosives, but you can't do anything of the sort in the board game? Why in the battletech universe do you need a cannon system whose weight is dependent on the explosive charge of a round's warhead rather than the force of the propellant?
I thought about loading up light mechs and vehicles with 100's of rockets and having them go at it that way, but it doesn't get to the problem that players are driving big hammers and every enemy is a nail.
I suppose I could put them in an environment where their 8 mechs continuously face off against an Assault Binary of crack Clan troops equipped with the best Clan technology, but that would get old...
Why can't the Battletech universe reflect human reality--that every time two forces have battled on an asymetrical battlefield the unconventional force has found a way to mitigate the strengths of the conventional force?
I like the option of IED's packed in cars in an urban environment. I like the idea of 'Mech traps and mines. I like the idea of tactical nukes and dirty bombs. I like the idea of improvised weapon systems that allow old mech's, vehicles, and infantry to beat a group of assault mechs that are going to just run headlong into any opponent, shrugging any attack off of their armor, and overwhelming them with firepower.
If small units weren't able to do disproportionate damage according to their size, the Gray Death Legion, Black Thorns, and a variety of other units and individuals immortalized in the fiction would not have been able to do what they did.
Finally, if the battlefield is dominated by mids, why do heavies and assaults make up more than 50% of the designs in the TROs? And even if they do produce a large volume of mediums, when are they going to trickle down to my garrison units?
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Shadrak
09/17/13 08:11 PM
174.255.83.142
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PS...how do you harass with SRMs when your opponent can outdistance you by 3x your range, can do 3-10 times your damage, and almost has your movement profile and no minimum range?
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Accords12
09/17/13 09:10 PM
90.218.232.99
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I don't think I specifically mentioned SRM's for harassment work, admitted the 3085 valk (abomination) does mount them in place of LRMs (which I will never accept) the valk is my harasser example because it screws with people, use thunder lrms to disrupt (leg damage is a pain in the tuchas) or fire from out of LOS with C3 or a spotter if you are cheap. The point of the Harasser is to be a thorn in the side, mining patrol and supply routes, or playing silly buggers out of sight.
I used the Javelin as the ambusher example because my general playground is 3rd-4th succession war stuff, and 'Sneaky Javelins' are mentioned directly in the TRO's. It pops up behind you slaps you with 2 srm 6s and runs the hell away, only to do it all again later. (the examples used were just that, examples of mechs fluffed for that sort of role).
The battlefield is dominated by mids because mids are simply the most common mechs built. They are relatively cheap to construct and have a good general balance of speed, firepower and endurance to be worth a look at. The number of designs doesn't denote commonality, just that there a lot of flavors of heavies and assaults. (Not every world is Hespirus II and chugging out super teched assaults at a silly rate). In a general mech engagement it breaks down to about 40% middies to a combined 30% heavies and assaults. The remaining 30% being lights but generally they do behind the scenes stuff if they can.
As for the Garrison trickle for middies, depends on the world garrisoned and the faction ruling it. A po-dunk world with no industrial value on the periphery or clan border, regardless of the owners, don't expect anything but maybe a few companies of beat up rust-bucket tanks and infantry backup. Decently populated and industrialized world up stakes and pop in garrisoned armor battalions (most likely green-reg but whatever) backed up by numerous conventional fighters, arty and maybe a company or so of mechs (mainly mids and lights (60/40ish split) but a heavy for the captain wouldn't be going too far) along with swarms on infantry holing up in defensive positions and prepping to srm the christ out of any mechs dumb enough to come near terrain. Anything even resembling a hub world would have its own house regiments stationed there (check era deployment tables for details) along with backup and all that other stuff. Hell regardless of anything else, in around a week, any unit stationed within 30ly can turn up and join in the party. The initial garrison don't have to be god monsters, they have to hold up till the cav pop in in a week or two.
And per your above example of the unbalancing of Assaults to other stuff well you kind of hit your issue yourself. The players in the campaign are playing derps with swarms o' munch monsters. Best thing you could do would be hard limit the roster for Assaults and Heavies to a lesser extent, and limit 'derp cutomizin' (tm) with a hard cap of cbills and tech per machine.
And/or you could also set campaign missions in which require recon and stuff, that big stompers would only be a detriment to, and if they ignore said engagements, well then they can walk straight into traps and the like (minefields, hidden heavy gauss or AC/20 toting ambush mechs (or tanks or even covered turreted guns), pre-sighted and spotted for arty tubes, those crazy 8 ton drone bombs that look like trucks from that xtro etc).
If they want to try to be the unstoppable force, thundering in a single direction, don't try immovable object, try flowing around them and popping their ammo and parts stores.
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Shadrak
09/17/13 11:48 PM
174.241.96.112
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Well, there are a lot of strategies for dealing with assault mech users...you just have to play with the players you have, though...hardly anyone plays...
I miss 3025...and I really miss 3050 when only about 1/3 mechs was fully upgraded.
Since we are running campaign, there really isn't a way to limit them, but I have been working on something I think will work to keep them interested while successfully destroying their equipment and stores while preventing them from accessing any technology that will be unbalancing.
It is about 3065 and they are moving through a section of deep periphery outside of the Lyran Commonwealth tracking a group of scientists from NAIS and the Draconis Combine as well as a combined arms battalion of Federated Suns regulars escorting "super weapon" that promises to end the fighting between the two sides in the civil war. I am actually about to introduce a new "faction" on them that will really scramble them...two major factions, in fact, with a few minor factions. I am going to "misjump" their jumpship and the NAIS jumpship by having them arrive in system at the same time the NAIS jumpship has finished fusion quick charging its KF drive and is jumping to empty space (destroying both KF drives in the misjump as the NAIS drags the player's hired merchant class jumpship into the "deep" periphery about 150-200 light years beyond the former Magistry of Canopus and Marion Hegemony).
Faction 1: A former SLDF division that "died" in the periphery when it was chasing MAF forces during the lead up to the Amaris Civil War. The first group is largely the remains of a royal battlemech division and uses almost no mechs and instead uses PA(L) battle armor and light vehicles supported by artillery and close air support with access to most SLDF type equipment. The BV of the OpFor should be relatively low based on the force structure, and they should also have rapid deployment capability. The few mechs this group uses are like the Specter. Technology level is a hybrid Clan/Star League with these guys exceeding Clan capabilities in comms, electronics, infantry weapons, medical technology, and bio-engineering, but being roughly on par with the Star League for weapons manufacturing. This group has control of one inhabited planet with a population of about 400 million.
Faction 2: The other is the remains of a regular battlemech division and a mechanized infantry division with access to about a battalion worth of SLDF battlemechs a regiment of SLDF conventional vehicles, and the capabilities to produce 3025-level conventional vehicles with limited energy weapons and very limited capabilities to produce fusion engines; most home grown vehicles are heavy/super heavy with light VTOLs and hovercraft serving as skirmishers and infantry transports. Between the two groups there is a detente that has existed for nearly 200 years. This faction also has access to "advanced" ballistic and missile technology weapons, primarily technologies like rocket launchers, light ac's, specialized ammo, etc. This is the largest faction and it controls an area of space that includes 5 inhabited planets and the society has a population of over 6 billion.
Faction 3: Beyond these two groups are a variety of pirate and independent groups that have more contact with the periphery and inner sphere and have a mixed bag of equipment that is primarily 3025 equipment with some upgrades. Most of these individuals are descendants of renegade members of the SLDF and the MAF forces that were chased into the deep periphery as well as individuals enticed or captured from across the periphery and inner sphere to join the various pirate groups. Despite their rag-tag nature, these forces are highly skilled and their membership includes cutting edge scientists who are happy members of their pirate and independent bands due to the freedom they have in researching subjects that would often be off limits even in periphery states, the SLMAS are a development of that research that will enable even lower-tech groups to compete with military forces employing the best military technology available.
Over time, I should attrit their equipment and reduce their logistical stores to the point were they have to give up their ultra modern mechs.
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ghostrider
09/17/13 11:52 PM
66.74.188.151
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The newer set up is a lot better. Damage seems a little high, but not that bad.
Still a few questions:
Do all the criticals need to be in the same location?
Will ecm cause the unit firing to use the manual to hit number?
Dont let your players say that with the exhaust ports, the heat shouldnt matter. And dont allow it to be sold, since it is new weapons and have to be salvaged at this time.
The ammo limit could be run like clan armor. X shots and then its back to using rifles..
I believe knee capping is under the infantry section of the total warfare series of books but not sure if they dropped it in later revisions. Swarm attacks that hit are extremely dangerous. As I said, if you can get a hold of the macarons armored cavalry supplemental, they do have things like mech traps, and other things like that. Pits with breakaway lids, and infantry holes that allow them to do anything from just firing weapons into a mech that might have landed on its head, up to sliding a bomb into the hole on the mech.
My impression of weight of a missle includes propellent as part of the explosive force, but could be wrong on that.
I agree with your assessment about the extremely number of assault mech vs the rest.
Alot of this comes from the very problems you are having with players. Once they figure out min-max, you have to do more dramatic things to make it somewhat equal. Terrain tends to be an big equalizer. Yes you will need more units, but they can bring down even the big mechs.
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Accords12
09/18/13 08:08 AM
90.218.232.99
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Again, the way to set a limit on campaign is to straight up put a hard limit on what they can pick/customize, you are the GM, use that, very few regiments have any real number of assaults, and those that do are tied up in the blood soaked fighting of the civil war. They want assaults everywhere, get them to tell you how they got a successor lord locked in a horrific war to detach an assault regiment (an utterly vital asset) from the front lines to secure some labjocks in the periphery (protip there are no explanations that will cut it). Its much less painful to deploy a mid weight formation that may have a stalker or two (or whatever eqvt) as their only assault detachment.
That should be able to nip their assault derps in the bud somewhat, and another is a hard limit on customizin'. Again, relatively simple, get a fluff reason for custom work, (and no, mechanically bet-tor wont cut it). Add in negative quirks from Strat ops (non standard parts, difficult to maintain etc) put a hard limit on the custom stuff the techs are willing to work on. (They are trained in stock/state designs, too many custom dealios need too many more man hours to work out if they did their jobs right). On top of that limit em off by c-bills. Money is money, and a state wont cover 'I want moar.' without good reason. If the mech is a custom job the warrior had to foot the bill and not everyone has the money and connections to get the latest Gucci toys en masse. (If they do what are they doing piloting mechs)? Just set a reasonable amount of cash that can be set aside per mech for refit. On top of this make use of the refit classifications table (again, strat ops) to limit silliness mid campaign.
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Shadrak
09/18/13 10:04 AM
174.225.64.99
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Quote:
The newer set up is a lot better. Damage seems a little high, but not that bad.
Still a few questions:
Do all the criticals need to be in the same location?
Will ecm cause the unit firing to use the manual to hit number?
Yes
Quote:
Dont let your players say that with the exhaust ports, the heat shouldnt matter. And dont allow it to be sold, since it is new weapons and have to be salvaged at this time.
The individual weapon and computer could be sold, but the exhaust system would have to be custom built each time it was installed in a mech...and a mech would need to be rebuilt if it were uninstalled. I don't really think most players would want to use one of these because of the drawbacks...I am hoping they are more of an OpFor tool that allows a non-peer group to damage the PC group. For heat, you are talking about 250-500kg of propellant gasses being dispersed through the battlemech chassis...the exhaust system prevents the heat from becoming damage (if the exhaust system doesn't exist/has a critical hit, it will damage the mech/vehicle when the weapon is fired). These propellent gasses are moving an object with a total weight fo 750 kg, or almost 4 shots of AC-20 all at once. No, the exhaust system vents a lot of heat already, and it functions to stabilize the mech from launching a mass that could be almost 5% of its body weight.
Quote:
The ammo limit could be run like clan armor. X shots and then its back to using rifles..
I believe knee capping is under the infantry section of the total warfare series of books but not sure if they dropped it in later revisions. Swarm attacks that hit are extremely dangerous. As I said, if you can get a hold of the macarons armored cavalry supplemental, they do have things like mech traps, and other things like that. Pits with breakaway lids, and infantry holes that allow them to do anything from just firing weapons into a mech that might have landed on its head, up to sliding a bomb into the hole on the mech.
I can't find the knee capping stuff in the new stuff, it might be covered under advanced rules in strategic ops (have only skimmed that one--a lot of game unbalancing rules or game slowing rules), but I haven't seen it in the core rulebook. I'm not sure if I have Mcarrons, I will have to check...thanks for pointing that out! I remember running an infantry heavy force years ago, but I thought our anti-mech stuff was house rules. My impression of swarm attacks, though, is that they are performed by specially trained anti-mech infantry. I think the special training may be over emphasized, but in the new part of the campaign I am going to reduce exposure to 'Mechs entirely to reduce the ability to rely on battlefield salvage. I could make them anti-mech infantry and justify it that it is either not that hard to train anti-mech infantry (it really shouldn't be) or that they maintained their historical training programs despite the reduced threat. Unfortunately, the new rules seem to require an infantry platoon be run very simply with no ammo tracking...if I understand the rules correctly, this leads to damage values determined by the platoon's Blazers (high damage when 20 people are firing them) with range profiles that match their support weapons' range...so if you have a long range support laser that allows you to fire to 15 hexes and you have a bunch of blazers that fire to 3 hexes you use the 15 hex range and the blazer+long range laser damage rather than a mixed damage profile.
Quote:
My impression of weight of a missle includes propellent as part of the explosive force, but could be wrong on that.
Not sure what you mean, but the three different systems equate to roughly: 350kg of warhead and 400kg propellant for short range, 200 kg warhead and 550 kg propellant for medium range, and 100 kg warhead and 650 kg propellant for the long range.
Quote:
I agree with your assessment about the extremely number of assault mech vs the rest.
Alot of this comes from the very problems you are having with players. Once they figure out min-max, you have to do more dramatic things to make it somewhat equal. Terrain tends to be an big equalizer. Yes you will need more units, but they can bring down even the big mechs.
Unfortunately, player groups aren't the way they used to be 15 years ago. They want a faster game (I don't blame them for that), and they want to play to win. With changes to game tech and the transition of what was once Level 3 equipment to tournament legal, it is very easy to build an assault mech (let alone a team of assault mechs) that are virtually invulnerable to any normal mech force of less than 12 mechs (meaning I am running AT LEAST 12 mechs on the board vs their 4). I could just field 4 min/maxed assaults myself, but then it is more of a "we are battling the game master" rather than "we are running the campaign". In an environment where there were more players I would just reshuffle the player group or run a planetary campaign where 1 group faces another. I have also thought about using a BV system and splitting the 4 players into 2 teams that control larger forces (I would give them access to my minis), and a list of high value targets they have to defend or capture and let them face off against each other, but I am afraid that might turn some of them off and I will end up losing all my players.
I think I will run the campaign first to get them to think differently about support forces, and I will see if that changes their game play.
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ghostrider
09/18/13 12:22 PM
66.74.188.151
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With the propellent comment, i was talking about normal srm/lrms, not the slammers.
There is other ways to help relieve players of items, such as light mechs just bypassing them and hitting the stockpiles. Strafing runs can hurt. Maybe having to emergency drop out of the ship and scatter them some. Granted using them constantly gets old. Just having to come up with new things. Hell, maybe someone thats been hit by them hires a full regiment of better equipped units to hit them.
Even back then, people didnt want a long game. Interest drops after an hour, then really drops in the 2+ time. Most of the problems that I seen was people trying things and no one really knew the rules, so searching the books was almost constant.
Im gonna have to break out the books. I know a few had infantry anti mech tactics and how to use them.
Also limiting the time they have might force them into getting some faster units. Or send them in a raid against Defiance Industries without them knowing who their target is (evil smirk).
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Shadrak
09/18/13 12:54 PM
174.225.64.99
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Quote:
With the propellent comment, i was talking about normal srm/lrms, not the slammers.
There is other ways to help relieve players of items, such as light mechs just bypassing them and hitting the stockpiles. Strafing runs can hurt. Maybe having to emergency drop out of the ship and scatter them some. Granted using them constantly gets old. Just having to come up with new things. Hell, maybe someone thats been hit by them hires a full regiment of better equipped units to hit them.
Even back then, people didnt want a long game. Interest drops after an hour, then really drops in the 2+ time. Most of the problems that I seen was people trying things and no one really knew the rules, so searching the books was almost constant.
Im gonna have to break out the books. I know a few had infantry anti mech tactics and how to use them.
Also limiting the time they have might force them into getting some faster units. Or send them in a raid against Defiance Industries without them knowing who their target is (evil smirk).
A few of those sound good! Thanks!
As far as them leaving supplies undefended, they would insist on playing out the entire combat--they are pretty methodical to the point where they have modified their transport dropship to include a platoon of security and increased numbers of weapons in the dropship. In fact, they will ask a lot of questions about their mission and if they expect their dropship/support base to be static for any length of time they have the defense forces dig in. As it stands, they have a couple of light weight support vehicles that assist in fortification and runway building. They also specified their dropship crew had the ability to conduct a rapid launch and that, unless otherwise specified, the engines are kept on at the landing zone. It is to the point of them always escorting their dropship to the landing zone with their two aerofighters even if it is a short hop from one target to another target. The campaign is integrated with the RPG, so they get into the detail of having MWR services and how they do laundry on the dropship.
Additionally, for the current campaign, they do a lot of research on what the current operating environment consists of so they would recognize that Hesperus was the home of Defiance and probably avoid attacking it. What they pretty much do is hit near-periphery planets, meet the requirements of their contract, steal anything of value that makes sense economically, and go on to the next contract....I don't have an issue with that, I only have an issue with their approach to the combat itself. I have actually had players that have sat 3 assault mechs on a level 2 hill for 15+ turns with overwatch for more than 2 mapsheets while 4 other assault mechs operated in hunter killer teams hunting down every enemy troop on the mapsheet. Since they had C3 and their fire support was running Light Gauss and their Hunter/Killers were running LBx 20s and pulse lasers with jump jets and masc it was a matter of the hunter/killers running up to the targets, shooting if they felt like it, and the fire support blasting the targets to pieces...the first time this happened was interesting, but it is the go-to tactic now--except now it is 85/90 tonners with compact engines, hardened armor, compact gyros, compact engines, and endo steel with almost no weapons and a tag and C3i unit.
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ghostrider
09/18/13 10:44 PM
66.74.188.151
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Could be a new base, or on another planet, like Coventry has one. Ambushes on a large scale work.
Also a wing of aerofighters doing a bombing run on the grounded dropships then strafing them would work some. If they wanna fight it out, thats fine to. The unit they are involved with now would love to keep pot shotting backs as slow mechs lumber a dozen or so kilometers to try and defend the base. Simply use a hover unit to get in, damage and destroy, and get out. Forget anything but ammo store and such. Maybe even have a few get into the dropships before they get the doors closed.
SImple ecm works for jamming c3s. Put it underground so they cannt take it out, or as was suggested before, pre-plotted artillery on the most like spots.
And honestly, it sounds like they have a well run unit.
Another suggestion is have them hit a planet that is being set up as a staging base against their neighbors. Trained and well equipped units, maybe even a few rct. Raid Davion and get the Cruicious lancers. Draconis combines Sword of light.
FInd the infantry stuff. They could very well creap up on the over watch and kneecap them, swarm, or just maybe punch thru the back armor and give them a nasty suprise. Hell, even a commando raid that is undetected until the first shots are fired are realistic. Even with the backwater worlds, they have natives that can get into areas thought to be impervious.
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