ATN082268
11/14/13 06:23 AM
69.128.58.222
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AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: Phoenix II (Battlestation) Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750 Vessel Type: WarShip Rules: Level 2, Custom design Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 2,500,000 tons K-F Drive System: (Unknown) Length: 2,250 meters Sail Diameter: 1,850 meters Power Plant: Standard Safe Thrust: 3 Maximum Thrust: 5 Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament: 16 Heavy N-Gauss 48 AMS 80 NAC/30
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ==Overview:==
As soon as New Vandenberg and seventeen other Periphery worlds revolted in 2765 against stiff Star League taxes, unstable First Lord Richard Cameron embarked on construction of a Battlestation class warship named the Phoenix. Despite the assassination of Lord Cameron in 2766 by Stefan Amaris and the chaos that ensued, the Phoenix was completed in 2775. The design and construction utilized vast Star League resources along with the most sophisticated warship construction techniques and equipment at an undisclosed location.
The philosophy of the Battlestation class warship was to squash rebellions and strike fear in all those who would think about opposing the Star League. Apparently, at that point, trying to keep the Star League together outweighed any other consideration. The fearsome reputation of the Battlestation is well deserved since the design possesses the firepower of a small fleet.
The first and only Battlestation class warship was named after a legendary Terran bird Phoenix which is said to live 500 years, die in a fiery blaze, only to again rise from its ashes to live as an emblem of immortality. The Phoenix is a spherically designed warship that is vaguely similar to a super sized Union Dropship. The exterior of the station is heavily armored and the interior is heavily reinforced and sectionalized which makes boarding actions difficult especially with large equipment or weapons (including Clan Elementals).
The design’s large fighter capacity give it additional mission flexibility and firepower. One of the most unusual aspects of the Phoenix is its advanced jump drive which reportedly allows the Battlestation to stay in jump space for an extended period of time although the effects of doing so are unknown. Some have speculated that this ability to stay in jump space was used by members of the Star League army when they seized the Phoenix just shortly before General Kerensky could depart with it on his exodus in 2784. Although it may have failed to keep the Star League together, the Phoenix is an engineering marvel and represents the pinnacle of Star League aerospace technology.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Class/Model/Name: Phoenix II (Battlestation) Mass: 2,500,000 tons
Equipment: Mass Power Plant, Drive & Control: 450,000.00 Thrust: Safe Thrust: 3 Maximum Thrust: 5 Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 47) 1,131,250.00 Jump Sail (Detachable): (Integrity = 9) 155.00 Structural Integrity: 150 375,000.00 Total Heat Sinks: 5,849 Double 4,856.00 Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 17,340.00 Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 6,250.00 Fire Control Computers: .00 Food & Water: (400 days supply) 4,178.00 Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00 Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide (7,590 total armor pts) 7,500.00
Capital Scale Armor Pts Location: L / R Fore: 1,265 Fore-Left/Right: 1,265/1,265 Aft-Left/Right: 1,265/1,265 Aft: 1,265
Cargo: Bay 1: Fighters (108) with 8 doors 16,200.00 Small Craft (10) 2,000.00 Fighter/ Small Craft Supplies (1) 20,000.00
DropShip Capacity: 5 Docking Hardpoints 5,000.00 Grav Decks #1 - 6: (225-meter diameter) 600.00 Life Boats: 175 (7 tons each) 1,225.00 Escape Pods: 175 (7 tons each) 1,225.00
Crew and Passengers: 275 Officers (247 minimum) 2,750.00 1,125 Crew (270 minimum) 7,875.00 110 Gunners (104 minimum) 770.00 10 1st Class Passengers 100.00 300 Marines 1,500.00 1 Admiral's Quarters 50.00 1 Captain's Quarters 40.00 1 Bay Personnel Quarters 1,862.00 266 Bay Personnel .00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2 Heavy N-Gauss(200 rounds)Nose 60 60 60 60 36 14,100.00 2 Heavy N-Gauss(200 rounds)Nose 60 60 60 60 36 14,100.00 12 AMS(15000 rounds) Nose -- -- -- -- 12 1,256.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) FL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) FL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) FL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) FL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) FL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) FL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) FL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) FL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) FL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) FL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 Heavy N-Gauss(200 rounds)L/RBS 60 60 60 60 72 28,200.00 2 Heavy N-Gauss(200 rounds)L/RBS 60 60 60 60 72 28,200.00 12 AMS(15000 rounds) L/RBS -- -- -- -- 24 2,512.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) AL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) AL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) AL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) AL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) AL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) AL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) AL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) AL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) AL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 NAC/30(200 rounds) AL/R 60 60 60 -- 400 14,320.00 2 Heavy N-Gauss(200 rounds)Aft 60 60 60 60 36 14,100.00 2 Heavy N-Gauss(200 rounds)Aft 60 60 60 60 36 14,100.00 12 AMS(15000 rounds) Aft -- -- -- -- 12 1,256.00 1 Lot Spare Parts (1.50%) 37,500.00 1 Large Naval Comm-Scanner 500.00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TOTALS: Heat: 8,336 2,500,000.00 Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors: Total Cost: 15,356,822,000 C-Bills Battle Value: 504,633 Cost per BV: 30,431.66 Weapon Value: 347,105 (Ratio = .69) Damage Factors: SRV = 26,532; MRV = 26,400; LRV = 20,800; ERV = 8,056 Maintenance: Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 1,768,345 (415,000 Structure, 667,575 Life Support, 685,770 Weapons) Support Points (SP) = 1,777,555 (101% of MPV) BattleForce2: Not applicable
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Cray
11/14/13 06:10 PM
71.47.122.85
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There are three major problems with this design that would prevent me from using it:
1) Short ranged. It has no weapons that can match the reach of capital missiles, nor can it prevent "high speed closing engagements" as detailed in Strategic Operations. It's a sitting duck.
2) No tactical mobility. While it can putter around a star system at 0.1G, it cannot effectively avoid tactical threats like high speed closing engagements, space bombing (which is easy to avoid with even 2/3 thrust), and ramming. It also cannot counter tactical movements of enemies around it, which is a useful feature of DropShip and WarShip fighter carriers - they have much greater endurance than their fighters and can do things like skirting a battlefield to pick up their fighters on the other side, or follow combat aerospace patrols to provide continuous resupply.
3) Expensive. I can get a good WarShip for this price and with none of two above drawbacks. In eras where WarShips are not available, it is still worth a flotilla of DropShips.
There are a few minor issues, too.
1) Big NACs. By using the NAC/30 in pairs (a pre-StratOps standard weapon arrangement), you cannot fully exploit bracketing fire of StratOps. That works best with numerous weapons in a bay.
2) No capital missiles. These could partly plug the drawbacks of this design and offer a lot of unique engagement opportunities (bearings-only launch, off-arc launches, teleoperated missiles for very, very long shots, etc.) and weapon effects (automatic crit rolls, good anti-fighter performance).
This is the spacegoing equivalent of one of your 1/2, 200-ton tanks. Big, beautiful, and yet ultimately vulnerable to much lighter, cheaper opponents.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ATN082268
11/16/13 03:24 AM
69.128.58.222
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Quote: There are three major problems with this design that would prevent me from using it:
1) Short ranged. It has no weapons that can match the reach of capital missiles, nor can it prevent "high speed closing engagements" as detailed in Strategic Operations. It's a sitting duck.
2) No tactical mobility. While it can putter around a star system at 0.1G, it cannot effectively avoid tactical threats like high speed closing engagements, space bombing (which is easy to avoid with even 2/3 thrust), and ramming. It also cannot counter tactical movements of enemies around it, which is a useful feature of DropShip and WarShip fighter carriers - they have much greater endurance than their fighters and can do things like skirting a battlefield to pick up their fighters on the other side, or follow combat aerospace patrols to provide continuous resupply.
3) Expensive. I can get a good WarShip for this price and with none of two above drawbacks. In eras where WarShips are not available, it is still worth a flotilla of DropShips.
There are a few minor issues, too.
1) Big NACs. By using the NAC/30 in pairs (a pre-StratOps standard weapon arrangement), you cannot fully exploit bracketing fire of StratOps. That works best with numerous weapons in a bay.
2) No capital missiles. These could partly plug the drawbacks of this design and offer a lot of unique engagement opportunities (bearings-only launch, off-arc launches, teleoperated missiles for very, very long shots, etc.) and weapon effects (automatic crit rolls, good anti-fighter performance).
This is the spacegoing equivalent of one of your 1/2, 200-ton tanks. Big, beautiful, and yet ultimately vulnerable to much lighter, cheaper opponents.
1. Capital Missiles certainly have a longer range than other capital weapons but the ammunition weighs a lot and could be put to better alternatives in my opinion. Capital Missiles work O.K. against fighters but personally I think fighters are a better solution against other fighters. Moreover, a small amount of weight dedicated to AMS (like in the Phoenix II) can effectively nullify a much larger weight dedicated to Capital Missiles.
I don't see how the weapons and/or their placement make the Phoenix II a "sitting duck" in "high speed closing engagements" compared to canon designs in general. I'll grant you that designs with four Capital Weapons in a bay potentially will be able to have more accurate shots with bracket fire than ones with only two Capital Weapons, like in the Phoenix, but the damage will be substancially less, only half as much (assuming equally damaging bays to start with) if both are using maximum accuracy for bracket fire.
2. The speed of the Phoenix II is 3/5, which is extremely common speed among canon Warships, so I don't see how its speed puts it at such a tactical disadvantage as you suggest. In addition, the Phoenix II can carry up to 5 Dropships, 108 Fighters and 10 Small Craft, so it can easily project a large amount of force, far beyond its Capital Weapon ranges if needed.
3. The Phoenix II costs around 15 Billion C-Bills which is pretty cheap as far as warships go which is especially true for a 2.5 million ton warship. The design costs about as much as canon designs like the 750,000 ton Aegis, 810,000 ton Black Lion or the 820,000 ton Agamemnon. It costs less than canon designs like the 1,930,000 ton McKenna, 1,560,000 ton Texas or even the 970,000 ton Feng Huang. It is debateable how much cost is a factor for a Clan or Major power in the Battletech universe and most people don't seem to use it as a way to balance forces for their games.
Ultimately though, it is up to you regarding what designs and rules to use
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Retry
11/16/13 10:26 AM
67.239.127.187
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Your design will probably get raped by aerospace swarms and 400 ton dropships.
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ATN082268
11/19/13 02:45 AM
69.128.58.222
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Quote: Your design will probably get raped by aerospace swarms and 400 ton dropships.
How many Aerospace Fighters and Dropships do you propose on using against the Phoenix II? The Phoenix II has 5 Dropships, 108 Aerospace Fighters and 10 Small Craft. On some theoretical level, you can overwhelm any Warship with Fighter Squadrons and/or Dropships but I shutter to think the number required to take out the Phoenix II and its Dropships, Aerospace Fighters and Small Craft. There are certainly other issues as well like there may be additional supporting Aerospace elements (such as Warships) with the Phoenix II, you may not have the assets and/or time to specifically tailor a force and/or situation to effectively fight it, etc...
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Retry
11/19/13 08:49 PM
67.239.127.187
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As many as you can carry. On that note you could bring in 200 ton small crafts as makeshift fighters. On a theoretical level any dropship could be overwhelmed by fighter/small craft/midget dropship swarms... but the Phoenix II, configured Dreadnought Style with only large batteries and completely void of anti-fighter weaponry would be especially vulnerable. It's not like they are exactly likely to take hits from those 500mm cannons or whatever a NAC/30 spits out these days.
Also, why Heavy Naval Gausses? Lamellor Ferro Carbide? I know you were able to make a very cheap dreadnought despite those advanced equipment but what about worlds that can't create such advanced stuff?
Experiment with something that exchanges the HNGs and FLC for HNPPCs and standard capital-scale armor, for an absolute economy variant.
In hindsight, presuming you have the escorts, the dreadnought-style ship doesn't have many weaknesses. Except capital missiles. Though Heavy Naval PPCs approach the range advantages those weapons have.
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Retry
11/19/13 11:39 PM
67.239.127.187
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Also, I disagree with Cray's statement about it being the equivalent of the 200 ton tanks, as this is nowhere near as slow or as expensive.... in comparison with other canon designs anyways. I don't want to know what kind of speed demons customs make. The design has a potential especially as a space station buster.
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