ATN082268
11/21/13 03:09 AM
69.128.58.222
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AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Class/Model/Name: Phoenix IV (Battlestation)
Tech: Inner Sphere / 2750
Vessel Type: WarShip
Rules: Level 2, Custom design
Rules Set: AeroTech2
Mass: 2,500,000 tons
K-F Drive System: (Unknown)
Length: 2,250 meters
Sail Diameter: 1,850 meters
Power Plant: Standard
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:
112 Heavy NPPC
160 ER PPC
64 Large Pulse Laser
8 AR10 Launcher
48 AMS
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==Overview:==
As soon as New Vandenberg and seventeen other Periphery worlds revolted in
2765 against stiff Star League taxes, unstable First Lord Richard Cameron
embarked on construction of a Battlestation class warship named the Phoenix.
Despite the assassination of Lord Cameron in 2766 by Stefan Amaris and the
chaos that ensued, the Phoenix was completed in 2775. The design and
construction utilized vast Star League resources along with the most
sophisticated warship construction techniques and equipment at an undisclosed
location.
The philosophy of the Battlestation class warship was to squash rebellions
and strike fear in all those who would think about opposing the Star League.
Apparently, at that point, trying to keep the Star League together outweighed
any other consideration. The fearsome reputation of the Battlestation is well
deserved since the design possesses the firepower of a small fleet.
The first and only Battlestation class warship was named after a legendary
Terran bird Phoenix which is said to live 500 years, die in a fiery blaze,
only to again rise from its ashes to live as an emblem of immortality. The
Phoenix is a spherically designed warship that is vaguely similar to a super
sized Union Dropship. The exterior of the station is heavily armored and the
interior is heavily reinforced and sectionalized which makes boarding actions
difficult especially with large equipment or weapons (including Clan
Elementals).
The design’s large fighter capacity give it additional mission flexibility
and firepower. One of the most unusual aspects of the Phoenix is its advanced
jump drive which reportedly allows the Battlestation to stay in jump space for
an extended period of time although the effects of doing so are unknown. Some
have speculated that this ability to stay in jump space was used by members of
the Star League army when they seized the Phoenix just shortly before General
Kerensky could depart with it on his exodus in 2784. Although it may have
failed to keep the Star League together, the Phoenix is an engineering marvel
and represents the pinnacle of Star League aerospace technology.
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Class/Model/Name: Phoenix IV (Battlestation)
Mass: 2,500,000 tons
Equipment: Mass
Power Plant, Drive & Control: 450,000.00
Thrust: Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive: Compact (Integrity = 47) 1,131,250.00
Jump Sail (Detachable): (Integrity = 9) 155.00
Structural Integrity: 150 375,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 14,265 Double 13,272.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 15,147.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters: 6,250.00
Fire Control Computers: 43,772.00
Food & Water: (365 days supply) 4,216.00
Hyperpulse Generator: 50.00
Armor Type: Lamellor Ferro-carbide (7,590 total armor pts) 7,500.00
Capital Scale Armor Pts
Location: L / R
Fore: 1,265
Fore-Left/Right: 1,265/1,265
Aft-Left/Right: 1,265/1,265
Aft: 1,265
Cargo:
Bay 1: Fighters (216) with 8 doors 32,400.00
Small Craft (10) 2,000.00
Fighter/ Small Craft Supplies (1) 14,500.00
DropShip Capacity: 6 Docking Hardpoints 6,000.00
Grav Decks #1 - 6: (225-meter diameter) 600.00
Life Boats: 193 (7 tons each) 1,351.00
Escape Pods: 193 (7 tons each) 1,351.00
Crew and Passengers:
275 Officers (248 minimum) 2,750.00
1,070 Crew (270 minimum) 7,490.00
170 Gunners (166 minimum) 1,190.00
10 1st Class Passengers 100.00
300 Marines 1,500.00
1 Admiral's Quarters 50.00
1 Captain's Quarters 40.00
1 Bay Personnel Quarters 3,374.00
482 Bay Personnel .00
Weapons and Equipment Loc SRV MRV LRV ERV Heat Mass
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4 Heavy NPPC Nose 60 60 60 60 900 12,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC Nose 60 60 60 60 900 12,000.00
10 ER PPC Nose 10(100)10(100)10(100) -- 150 70.00
10 ER PPC Nose 10(100)10(100)10(100) -- 150 70.00
10 ER PPC Nose 10(100)10(100)10(100) -- 150 70.00
8 Large Pulse Laser Nose 7(72) 7(72) -- -- 80 56.00
1 AR10 (10 KW, 10 WS, 10 B)Nose * * * * 20 1,450.00
12 AMS(12000 rounds) Nose -- -- -- -- 12 1,006.00
4 Heavy NPPC FL/R 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC FL/R 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC FL/R 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC FL/R 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC FL/R 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
10 ER PPC FL/R 10(100)10(100)10(100) -- 300 140.00
8 Large Pulse Laser FL/R 7(72) 7(72) -- -- 160 112.00
1 AR10 (10 KW, 10 WS, 10 B)FL/R * * * * 40 2,900.00
4 Heavy NPPC L/RBS 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC L/RBS 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
10 ER PPC L/RBS 10(100)10(100)10(100) -- 300 140.00
10 ER PPC L/RBS 10(100)10(100)10(100) -- 300 140.00
10 ER PPC L/RBS 10(100)10(100)10(100) -- 300 140.00
8 Large Pulse Laser L/RBS 7(72) 7(72) -- -- 160 112.00
1 AR10 (10 KW, 10 WS, 10 B)L/RBS * * * * 40 2,900.00
12 AMS(12000 rounds) L/RBS -- -- -- -- 24 2,012.00
4 Heavy NPPC AL/R 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC AL/R 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC AL/R 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC AL/R 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC AL/R 60 60 60 60 1800 24,000.00
10 ER PPC AL/R 10(100)10(100)10(100) -- 300 140.00
8 Large Pulse Laser AL/R 7(72) 7(72) -- -- 160 112.00
1 AR10 (10 KW, 10 WS, 10 B)AL/R * * * * 40 2,900.00
4 Heavy NPPC Aft 60 60 60 60 900 12,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC Aft 60 60 60 60 900 12,000.00
10 ER PPC Aft 10(100)10(100)10(100) -- 150 70.00
10 ER PPC Aft 10(100)10(100)10(100) -- 150 70.00
10 ER PPC Aft 10(100)10(100)10(100) -- 150 70.00
8 Large Pulse Laser Aft 7(72) 7(72) -- -- 80 56.00
1 AR10 (10 KW, 10 WS, 10 B)Aft * * * * 20 1,450.00
12 AMS(12000 rounds) Aft -- -- -- -- 12 1,006.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.00%) 25,000.00
1 Large Naval Comm-Scanner 500.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: Heat: 28,448 2,500,000.00
Tons Left: .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 13,840,746,800 C-Bills
Battle Value: 345,885
Cost per BV: 40,015.46
Weapon Value: 329,911 (Ratio = .95)
Damage Factors: SRV = 17,868; MRV = 17,377; LRV = 12,809; ERV = 4,954
Maintenance: Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 1,778,991
(431,300 Structure, 678,625 Life Support, 669,066 Weapons)
Support Points (SP) = 1,781,495 (100% of MPV)
BattleForce2: Not applicable
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Cray
11/21/13 06:12 PM
97.101.96.171
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[edit] Well, the battlestation has become a battleship. Sorry I missed that, ATN. It resolves some of the biggest problems with a battlestation.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (11/23/13 01:12 PM)
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Retry
11/21/13 11:29 PM
67.239.127.187
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Missiles aren't exactly what I'd call "firepower dense"
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ATN082268
11/22/13 05:43 AM
69.128.58.222
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Quote:
Alright, when I say, "needs capital missiles to have a chance of surviving," I mean, "Needs an ****-ton of capital missile launchers per arc," not 8 overall. The other capital weapons verge on pointless on a space station except for dealing with the odd boarding attempt.
As it is, this station suffers the same problems as the Phoenix II and III.
You do realize the Phoenix is a Warship with a 3/5 movement, right?
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Cray
11/23/13 01:10 PM
71.47.122.85
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Quote:
Missiles aren't exactly what I'd call "firepower dense"
They are firepower dense in weapon bays and have unique features. Starting with density:
An AR10 with the mandatory 10-shot minimum (Killer Whales, for a worst-tonnage scenario) is 750 tons and does 4 capital points of damage. That's 1 point per 187.5 tons.
A NAC/30 does 30pts on 3500 tons, or 1 point per per 116.7 tons; NAC/35s and /40s are a bit more weight efficient, but have a number of drawbacks that make them less effective. (Lower range prevents them from being used in orbital bombardment and you can only put one NAC/40 in a weapons bay.)
Any NPPC or NL does 1 point per 200 tons.
NGRs are a joke at 233.3 tons per point.
So, capital missiles aren't as weight efficient as naval autocannons, but they're better than most other capital-scale weapons.
As for damage density, the system of weapon bays used in BT aerospace combat masks the problem of large numbers of individual weapons. If you have 17 AR10s in a weapon bay (the max you can have, since you can't have more than 70pts of damage in a bay and 17 AR10s could fire 17 Killer Whales), they're fired on one attack roll and do damage in one roll, just like any other weapon bay. Frankly, it's for that reason I put my capital missile launchers in many small bays of 1 to 4 launchers each. I like having the opportunity to make many attack rolls so at least something hits.
Capital missiles have other advantages:
1) They always get a critical hit roll, even if they don't exceed the damage threshold. Capital missiles are the armor piercing munitions of naval weapons.
2) They have unique firing modes, like:
--Off-arc shots (Pre-programmed way points). You can launch capital missiles from one firing arc into a target in an adjacent firing arc. There's a penalty, but it lets you group firepower better.
--Bearings-only shots. Not only does this allow you to fire missiles blind and let the missile find a target in a designated target zone (e.g., on the far side of a screen launcher's cloud), but it gives almost unlimited range (at 50 hexes/turn). These shots are uniquely useful in High Speed Closing Engagements, too. You just need to gamble on the missile's poor gunnery when it gets into a target zone.
--Capital missiles have no penalties when engaging fighters, unlike the normal +5 of most capital weapons. Barracudas have a useful -2 to-hit bonus, too.
--Tele-operated missiles give flexibility to missile engagements, plus unlimited range (if you have a lot of patience.)
--Pre-programmed waypoint launches allow tele-operated missiles to pass through jamming zones and return to zones where they're in friendly control.
--If you're into that sort of thing, they can launch nuclear missiles.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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11/25/13 07:07 PM
67.239.127.187
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Those stats are only with a bare minimum of ammunition, and therefore endurance. If you want your ship to supply firepower for more than 15 turns the AR/10 + Killer Whale combo loses out very quickly to all of the other contenders... yes, even the NGR.
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ATN082268
11/26/13 03:59 AM
69.128.58.222
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Quote:
[edit] Well, the battlestation has become a battleship. Sorry I missed that, ATN. It resolves some of the biggest problems with a battlestation.
That's O.K  I agree that Capital Missiles provide some unique opportunities but, especially given their vulnerability to Anti-Missile Systems (AMS), I wouldn't normally consider putting a lot of them on a Warship.
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Cray
11/26/13 06:39 PM
71.47.122.85
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Quote:
Those stats are only with a bare minimum of ammunition, and therefore endurance. If you want your ship to supply firepower for more than 15 turns the AR/10 + Killer Whale combo loses out very quickly to all of the other contenders... yes, even the NGR.
On the simple basis of damage per ton, yes, the AR-10 is not maximally efficient. If you want weapons that can rapidly crit a Leviathan II (or Phoenix IV) to death at 400 hexes, give capital missiles and Strategic Operations a second look.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (11/26/13 06:40 PM)
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11/26/13 11:07 PM
67.239.127.187
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If you want to crit a ship to death, why not just spam a smaller NACs or gauss rifles? Or Extended LRM swarms, if they can anyways.
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Cray
11/27/13 10:01 PM
97.101.96.171
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Quote:
If you want to crit a ship to death, why not just spam a smaller NACs or gauss rifles? Or Extended LRM swarms, if they can anyways.
Because those weapons have to exceed the damage threshold of the armor, while capital missiles don't, and because those weapons have a range of 50 hexes or less, while capital missiles don't.
So, look at the case of a Leviathan II or Phoenix IV. You've got over 1,000 capital points of armor per hit location.
Can a big battery of NACs get a crit chance? No, because they can only deliver 70 capital points of damage per weapons bay and the damage threshold is over 100.
Can a big battery of NGRs get a crit chance? No, because they can only deliver 70 capital points of damage per weapons bay and the damage threshold is over 100.
Can a big, big, big battery of ELRMs get a crit chance? Well, if you manage to get 700 standard points of ELRM damage into a weapons bay...no, because they can only deliver 70 capital points of damage per weapons bay and the damage threshold is over 100.
Can a single AR10 launcher firing a dinky Barracuda get a crit chance? Despite only doing 2 capital points of damage, yes. Capital missiles always get a critical hit chance every time they hit.
Let's talk ranges now.
The longest ranges of any NAC is 40 space hexes (long capital range). The heaviest NACs (35 and 40) have a shorter range.
The longest ranges of any NGR is 50 space hexes (extreme capital range).
The range of an ELRM is 25 hexes (extreme standard range).
The range of a bearings-launched capital missile is 50 hexes per turn, for an unlimited number of turns, out to the limits of sensor ranges (some tens of thousands of kilometers for useful sensors).
You can spam thousands of ELRMs or full weapons bay of NACs and not get critical hit chances (because they have to answer to damage thresholds), but capital missiles always get critical chances when they hit (since they don't care about damage thresholds) and they can be fired at far, far longer ranges than other weapons.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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11/27/13 11:17 PM
67.239.127.187
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Kk.
But then you'd still would rather have a specialized missile boat for that, wouldn't you?
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Cray
11/28/13 12:56 AM
97.101.96.171
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Quote:
Kk.
But then you'd still would rather have a specialized missile boat for that, wouldn't you?
Since a ship heavy with capital missiles is able to perform any mission (and more) available to other WarShips and DropShips, I don't see it as specialized. After all, capital missiles are capable of orbital bombardment, anti-shipping, and anti-fighter roles. That's the opposite of specialization: generalization.
If a ship predominately armed with capital missiles could only, say, kill redheaded left-handed stepchildren, then I'd agree it was specialized. But since capital missiles are able to blow up anything that another capital weapon array can blow up, such missile-heavy ships don't come across as very specialized, IMO.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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11/28/13 01:07 PM
67.239.127.187
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It's specialized because it has such a low endurance. It's impressive for a very short amount of time, and increasing the ammunition per launcher can only do so much because the launchers are lightweight and the missiles themselves incredibly bulky. You can use it in anti-fighter roles, but you will run out of ammunition very, very quickly compared to ELRMs used for the same purpose. You can use missiles for anti-shipping... but it depends how many you want to kill, because the firepower won't last long. Weapons like the gauss rifles and NAC/30s can also bombard a planet, but their ammunition weighs way way less. A theoretical dedicated orbital bombardment vessel could have gauss cannons with thousands of rounds of munition to provide support seemingly forever. Heck, a ship equipped with about 50 rounds of munitions would be sufficient for orbital bombardment, having about 5x the endurance of a capital missile platform used for it.
It's a jack of all trades for a very, very brief period of time, therefore it is only suitable for very quick operations or a hit and run attack before it has to reload. Therefore it is specialized for use in very brief and short operations.
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