Gamow
03/02/10 04:46 PM
78.98.193.134
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Hello everyone, this is my first post here.
I wonder what do you think is the worst mech or the least popular to play with among the IS 3025.
My pick would definetly go either for SHD-2H Shadowhawk 55 tons - moderate speed 5/8/3-JJ, extremly weak weapon power (AC5, LRM5, SRM2, MLaser) armor moderate (9.5t) and basically useless for any sort of scenario - it was hillarious to read about the heroic deeds Grayson did with this mech in the grey death trilogy books,
or a second candidate: JM6-S Jaggermech - 65 tons, slow speed 4/6/0, weak weapon power (2x AC5, 2x AC2, 2xMLaser), extremly poor armor for its tonnage (6t) and again, totally useless for anything. While the range of all the four autocannons is quite flexible, the damage output is too low to compensate for the weak armor.
I don't think I ever won a game when I rolled one of these in the random mech lances composition rules we use specially for IS 3025.
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Zandel_Corrin
03/02/10 06:02 PM
123.2.140.247
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Never did like the JM6-S... the 3060 ish upgrade with PPCs was my fav.
I never liked the Clint 3025...
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Cray
03/02/10 06:32 PM
173.168.115.68
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While the Shadowhawk is, objectively, a stinker, it had some awesome artwork backing it on the cover of BT 2nd edition, Citytech, and Aerotech 1st edition. I mean, it was THE poster child for early BT (except that actual poster of Natasha Kerensky's bronze Warhammer.)
My short list would include the Charger, Quickdraw or, yes I'll say it: the much-beloved UrbanMech. The Quickdraw has a bad case of fugly with the performance of a 40-ton 'Mech, while the Charger was just a stinker.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Frabby
03/02/10 07:02 PM
79.224.190.150
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What about the Stinger?
It's not "bad but cool" like the Shadow Hawk or the UrbanMech.
It's not "big balls bad" like the Charger, Quickdraw, Rifleman or JagerMech.
Instead, it is ingloriously ignored to death.
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Karagin
03/03/10 12:27 AM
80.149.45.102
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For the least popular, basing things off of what we saw in universe, the Grasshopper, it is all but forgotten for the most part, has one appearance in the Heir to the Dragon novel and then that is it.
As for what the group I played with saw as least popular based on use, it would have to be the Witworth, followed by the Jagermech.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Gamow
03/03/10 04:19 AM
78.98.193.134
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I always thought WTH-1 Whitworth was actually pretty good, for a 40t mech, it has a solid weaponry 2x LRM 10 and 3x MLaser followed by 8 tons of armor and 4/6/4-JJ speed. Compare that for example with ASN-21 Assassin (40 tons), LRM5, SRM2, MLaser, poor armor 4.5t and 7/11/5-JJ, or already mentioned CLNT-2-3T Clint (the one with AC5 and 2xMLasers).
GHR-5H Grasshopper is my favourite mech from the fourth edition box. 70 tons, 4x MLaser, LLaser, LRM5, solid 13t armor, jump jets at this tonnage 4/6/4-JJ and perfect 22 heatsinks to allow shooting with every weapon each turn basically. Great mech to jump into the rear of heavier mechs and smack them with all the lasers without worrying about the heat.
Quote:
While the Shadowhawk is, objectively, a stinker, it had some awesome artwork backing it on the cover of BT 2nd edition, Citytech, and Aerotech 1st edition. I mean, it was THE poster child for early BT (except that actual poster of Natasha Kerensky's bronze Warhammer.)
My short list would include the Charger, Quickdraw or, yes I'll say it: the much-beloved UrbanMech. The Quickdraw has a bad case of fugly with the performance of a 40-ton 'Mech, while the Charger was just a stinker.
I agree Charger is really horrible. Wasn't there Victor on the Citytech box? Shadowhawk was piloted by Grayson and Warhammer by Natasha, two of the most iconic characters in the BT universe. But whereas Warhammer is actually a solid mech despite it tends to overheat a lot, Shadowhawk is easily one of the weakest Mechs I played with.
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Karagin
03/03/10 06:41 AM
80.149.45.102
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I like the Shadow Hawk, it has as done pretty decent for me in games, and I try not let it get into areas it can't get out of.
The Assassin is okay...if used as hit and run away far away mech.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Gamow
03/03/10 10:50 AM
78.98.193.134
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Quote:
What about the Stinger?
It's not "bad but cool" like the Shadow Hawk or the UrbanMech.
It's not "big balls bad" like the Charger, Quickdraw, Rifleman or JagerMech.
Instead, it is ingloriously ignored to death.
STG-3R or STG-3G Stinger is well 20t Mech, there's hardly any mech that could be described as good or bad in that category. It jumps, it has speed 6/9/6, it has pair of Mlasers (or a MLaser + 2 Machine Guns) 3t armor, and you can't really improve it unless you put the speed down to like 4/6/0, remove jump jets, and try to mount a PPC. STG-3R version is still good to use against an infantry with the 2 machine guns.
RLF-3N Rifleman is very risky mech - he can deal out a lot of damage at any range (2x LLasers, 2xMlasers, 2xAC5) which usually leads to a tremendous overheat (with only 10 heat sinks). However, it's nowhere near as bad as JM6-S Jaggermech or CRG-1L Charger
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CYBRN4CR
03/03/10 03:45 PM
71.236.221.45
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*takes a look at the 3025: Revised listing of mechs (I assume that's acceptible in this discussion?)*
So far, my least favorite is the Champion, for its look mainly. Its early variants suck too, but I just can't take a mechwarrior seriously in a Champion. It looks like a 60t LAM experiment gone horribly, horribly wrong, which then tried to be taken seriously as a heavy mech.
However, there might be redemption for it if one upgraded its engine as far as it would go, maybe give it a MASC, and stick nothing but srms in the arms...then I'd allow it to look the way it does for the pure "WTF?" value. 
Edited by CYBRN4CR (03/03/10 03:59 PM)
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Karagin
03/03/10 04:15 PM
80.149.45.102
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I think it would be best to stick with original 3025 TRO for the mech choices, it has a better selection.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Zandel_Corrin
03/03/10 05:44 PM
123.2.140.247
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The funny thing about that is that the champion was a solid design... did quite well in the battles i saw...
Here's one our group found VERY unpopular even tho i liked it... The original Thunderbolt!
I liked it but our group hated this thing like the plague... they'd rather take two scorpions than one of these babies!
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Lafeel
03/06/10 11:33 AM
157.157.189.32
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Quote:
The funny thing about that is that the champion was a solid design... did quite well in the battles i saw...
Here's one our group found VERY unpopular even tho i liked it... The original Thunderbolt!
I liked it but our group hated this thing like the plague... they'd rather take two scorpions than one of these babies!
Why? It may be ugly, but it is a surprisingly effective mech. Even if it is more jack of all trades than anything else.
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Zandel_Corrin
03/08/10 05:37 PM
123.2.140.247
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For that very 'Jack-o-all-trades' reason... they figured that two lighter but more specialized mechs would do better than this any day....
At least until i started using it more often... in pairs.... near water.... then they just refused to use it out of spite!
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Gamow
03/09/10 09:36 AM
78.98.193.134
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Quote:
...
Here's one our group found VERY unpopular even tho i liked it... The original Thunderbolt!
I liked it but our group hated this thing like the plague... they'd rather take two scorpions than one of these babies!
This one?
TDR-5S Thunderbolt 65 tons, 13t Armor, 15 Heat Sinks, Speed 4/6/0 Weapons: Large Laser, LRM-15, 3x Medium Laser, SRM-2, 2x Machine Guns?
I find it to be a decent mech for that category.
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Zandel_Corrin
03/09/10 05:18 PM
123.2.140.247
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Yeah that one... it IS decent but as you can see it has a kind of random weapons mix.... many peeps don't like this design due to it's 'I can play any role ok but no role awesome' weapons arrangement.
Still i've had some good times with this design.... and in groups they work VERY well indeed.
Imagine a lance of these babies approaching... 60 LRMs to soften the enemy up for a round or two.... then add the LLs for more damage.... then up close drop the LRMs for a few ML or that SRM if you have armour breaches to exploit.... Kinda high on heat which is why your better defending a lake with them but still a lot of fun IMHO.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Lafeel
03/10/10 09:53 AM
157.157.189.32
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Indeed. There is no two ways about it, the Thud is the heavy trooper mech in BT.
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GiovanniBlasini
03/17/10 04:03 AM
64.183.4.46
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Id have to go with the only one which really is nearly useless: the Charger.
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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KamikazeJohnson
03/20/10 01:36 AM
206.45.42.166
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Ah, the beautiful, be-eautiful 3025 T-Bolt. Many were the n00bs-controlled Marauder and Warhammer that I smacked down with one of those in a single-map fight 
As for unpopular...I always found the Dervish uninspiring...seemed that the same role could be filled cheaper with a Whitworth or Trebuchet, or better with a Crusader or Catapult. Never really cared for the Crusader either, for that matter...just seemed kinda hokey, and those stupid SRMs in the legs just weirded me out...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Zandel_Corrin
03/21/10 06:54 PM
123.2.140.247
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I likes the Dervish tho the 55 ton weight was just strange... the crusader weirded me out as well.... but it was effective if you could get into that 'sweet spot'.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Jon
04/03/10 09:44 AM
24.21.3.118
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I always liked the Hatchetman, of course, I play D&D and I love dwarves with bug ass axes so maybe I'm biased. My least favortie mech from 3025 would have to be the Charger. 80 tons of mech with 5 small lasers, please, someone needs to be beaten for that mech design. Of course my friend cringed when i redesigned it using Clan Tech, LOL
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CreeDakota
01/12/11 05:31 PM
165.151.103.84
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i would have to agree with others that the Charger is the most poorly designed mechs in the 3025 TRO.
Alot of the mechs in that TRO are poorly designed, but honestly that is a big part of the appeal of that book and that ERA of the game. From a gameplay perspective it made personal mech designs or variants much more exciting. From a stroyline perspective it was awesome to have so many 'flawed designs' coupled with decaying technology.
If the TRO's in general were full of only optimized mechs I think this game would not have near the appeal it does today.
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rider
02/09/11 05:01 PM
198.212.99.11
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Since this topic has been revived a little, I'll chime in on the threads given above. First off I agree with most the assessments on the 'Mechs listed. Chargers, Urbanmechs, Jagermechs all receive low points in my book. Admitedly the Shadow Hawk has a poor weapons combination, but for the same reasons as mentioned by others its origins as the cover model for the early FASA booklets and a starring role in the Gray Death series books (W.H. Keith is probably my favorite BTech author) gives it a pass for me.
As much as I hate to admit, my beloved BNC-3E should probably go on the list of crumby 'mechs. Looks and size, it has always been my favorite, but short of 3050 tech or converting it to the slow Steiner model, it lacks any punch (unless you're standing next to it and it literally punches you).
I'll have to politely disagree with those short changing the TDR Thunderbolt. During gameplay for me, both using it and fighting against it, the 'mech has proven to be one of those enduro machines that just soaks up punishment and can give out healthy damage in return.
Rank ordered the Charger and Jagermech - as is - would have to be at or near the top as the worst 'mechs.
I agree with the last assesment regarding 'flawed designs' being part of the early draw to the game, it only challenged us early players to improve and/or build our own.
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Christopher_Perkins
02/10/11 12:26 AM
24.125.16.116
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I loved the Shadow Hawk... especially in MPBT
Mobility, Long Ranged fire power...
I used Shadow Hawks to take down riflemen and marauders in the EGA Mechwarrior I game so much that i didnt realize that EGA MPBT was reworked to make it harder to Head Cap...
My first PVP kill was a Shadow Hawk vs a Rifleman....
Told him that a Rifleman was a head-shot magnet...
then Proved it...
Center Mass Cockpit...
Death Wish
id say that the Urban Mech heads my list of the designs that i disliked from 3025... cannot survive outside of a City... but then again, that was its targeted environment...
Runner up is the Charger... the 80 Ton Scout mech was an exppensive attempt to do what was better done by a 20 tonner... but then agian its stated purpose was to survive scouting places that would chew up and spit out 20 tonners....
Not all mechs are geared for combat... and Both the OstScout and the Charger falll in this category
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/10/11 02:24 AM
184.214.69.73
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There would be a good reason for most of the 3025 mechs to suck. All of the good ones where blown to pieces long before because they where better and used until they where all destroyed and the armies had to fall back on the more crappy designs because that was all that was left to be used.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Christopher_Perkins
02/10/11 07:51 PM
138.162.128.52
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The 3025 mechs were supposedly the ones that had been built in enough numbers to last from the Age of War to just before the 4th Succession War.
These were mechs that the majority of the innersphere had the technology level to produce, or maintain, depending on how you read the early books.
The idea that these are "the best of what's left" doesn't consider Why these mechs were produced in such numbers necessary to survive even the destruction of the factories producing them.
There are a lot of Specialists in 3025.
Scouts are NOT mechs for the line of Battle...
They are Mechs built for Double Blind Type Scenarios, they go into areas fast, and let the unit know what is there, these are mechs that has a limited utility in the Standard Game.
Most Scouts go into areas that the unit Cannot See... because of this, they have a distressing tendancy to die.
The Charger is meant to survive what would kill most scouts.
The Rifleman is another mech that is less than stellar in the line of Battle...
However, with the right rules, it serves as an Over Watch unit that is entirley capable of narrowing the lethality gap between BattleMechs and AeroSpace Fighters...
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/11/11 02:18 AM
184.197.185.103
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Quote:
The idea that these are "the best of what's left" doesn't consider Why these mechs were produced in such numbers necessary to survive even the destruction of the factories producing them.
What, you don't think people don't use political clout to get armies to buy equipment that is only good to the person that is trying to selling it the the army? You should go and look at the crap that the US military was forced to buy because some Senator forced it down their throat because some one wanted the military to buy it and convinced the Senator that it was a good idea.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Christopher_Perkins
02/11/11 10:15 AM
138.162.128.52
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Quote:
What, you don't think people don't use political clout to get armies to buy equipment that is only good to the person that is trying to selling it the the army? You should go and look at the crap that the US military was forced to buy because some Senator forced it down their throat because some one wanted the military to buy it and convinced the Senator that it was a good idea.
such specific instances are clearly fluffed on an individual basis
you are sniping at a swarm of flies...
try hunting with bird shot instead
Christopher Robin Perkins
It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
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TigerShark
12/01/13 06:24 PM
68.190.197.104
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I refuse to field the MAD-3R Marauder or RFL-3N Rifleman. They're designs with critical flaws which could easily be remedied. I'll work with a CRD-3R Crusader, but only as a last resort.
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