Retry
01/05/14 10:08 PM
67.239.109.174
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The Rooke is a small coastal patrol boat designed for moderate intensity conflicts, constructed by the non-canon alternate history faction Crossroads. If you fail to read the introduction paragraph to realize this I will reserve the right to point this out and then procede to laugh at the fact that you failed to read the introduction paragraph.
Like all Crossroadian naval designs, the Rooke utilizes HarJel to exponentially increase it's survivability. The weaponry is a simple but effective clan-spec ER PPC. Other than it's cost effectiveness, the Rooke has few distinguishing qualities. It's a proven favorite of garrison forces!
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Rooke Coastal Patrol Boat
Clan
50 tons
BV: 1022
Cost: 2,372,917 C-bills
Movement: 5/8 (Naval)
Engine: 220 Fusion
Internal: 30
Armor: 216
Internal Armor
Front 5 60
Right 5 44
Left 5 44
Rear 5 22
Turret 6 45
Weapons Loc Heat
ER PPC TU 15
Equipment Loc
Targeting Computer BD
HarJel FR
HarJel RS
HarJel LS
HarJel RR
Edited by Retry (01/06/14 01:33 PM)
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
01/06/14 07:44 AM
172.56.31.63
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Your design is illegal.
You have a ICE power plant with an energy weapon and no heat sinks. If you change the power plant to fusion that will make it a legal design once you add another five heat sinks to the ten that come with a fusion engine.
I'm assuming the internal structure on the left and turret is just a simple typo you meant that to be a five and not a six.
My preference in design would be to cut the weight by around half, drop the Extended Range PPC for either an Extended Range Large Laser or a Large Pulse Laser and totally ditch the HarJel. There is no reason to wast HarJel on a second line combat unit.
I have my own design that I would put up against this for the role it was meant for. My Albatross Laser Variant. Since I can field six for the cost of the C-Bill cost of your illegal design. I can field even more once the cost of your design is corrected for having a fusion engine. I have more ships to cover more sea coast.
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/159477/an/0/page/7#159477
My speed will help to compensate for the light armor.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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ghostrider
01/06/14 11:34 AM
66.74.187.127
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There is a second thing missed. No power amps for the energy weapon. A little reworking would make it good.
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Retry
01/06/14 01:31 PM
67.239.109.174
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Oops, meant to be Fusion.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
01/06/14 05:40 PM
172.56.31.219
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Your still missing five heat sinks.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Cray
01/06/14 06:19 PM
71.47.122.85
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The harjel doesn't help a surface vessel too much. They're only in danger of sinking when they lose all armor in a location, and that's when harjel fails. So that's some tonnage for more heat sinks.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Retry
01/06/14 07:21 PM
67.239.109.174
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Surface vessels do have breach rolls on non-turret locations. I've been breached too many times by "lucky" 12 rolls on that on inferiorly armored units like the Mauna Kea to not include the harjel. No, I will not reduce survivability by shaving those four tons off.
Heatsinks aren't shown but inferred to be included.
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Karagin
01/06/14 08:19 PM
24.243.178.124
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Is this a Hydrofoil or surface craft?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
01/06/14 08:36 PM
67.239.109.174
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Surface craft.
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Cray
01/07/14 06:24 PM
71.47.122.85
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Quote:
Surface vessels do have breach rolls on non-turret locations. I've been breached too many times by "lucky" 12 rolls on that on inferiorly armored units like the Mauna Kea to not include the harjel.
Oh, yep, p. 198 Total Warfare. They get their chances for breach rolls, too.
What's your point about "inferiorly armored units", though? The hull integrity roll happens whether the surface vessel has lots of armor or not.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Retry
01/07/14 07:08 PM
67.239.109.174
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The point was, even with units with less armor, death by hull breach was very common. It just seemed like the HarJel was a necessity to prevent it.
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Cray
01/07/14 10:22 PM
71.47.122.85
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Quote:
The point was, even with units with less armor, death by hull breach was very common. It just seemed like the HarJel was a necessity to prevent it.
Hull breach rolls for surface vessels are rolled after a hit is achieved. For attacks from above-water threats, a hull breach occurs, on average, once in every 36 hits (a 12 on 2d6). For attacks from underwater threats, a hull breach occurs, on average, once in 6 hits (a 10 or higher on 2d6).
The question is: how thick does your armor have to be to survive 6, let alone 36, hits in one location, for HarJel to matter?
It's like worrying about decapitation hits on 'Mechs. Some players rush to use center torso cockpits, thinking the extra armor of the center torso will save their pilots. In fact, center torso hits are 7 times as common from the front as head hits, and all damage transfer paths lead to the center torso - but bypass the head.
Breaches happen. They're dramatic, and thus memorable, for suddenly killing a vehicle, just like decapitating a 'Mech. But unless a vehicle can survive 6 or more regular hits in a location (i.e., has over ~30 points of armor), spending tonnage on HarJel is spending tonnage on a low-probability means of losing a vehicle. In many cases, it's more likely all the armor will be blown off or other critical hits will mission-kill an aquatic vehicle before you need to worry about breaches.
Thus, I'm not going to agree that an aquatic vehicle is a suicide machine for lacking rare Clantech HarJel. There are many battles when total armor, firepower, and rate of fire make a larger difference than an obscure, non-tournament grade system for a small faction.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Retry
01/07/14 11:25 PM
67.239.109.174
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Seeing as they happen all the time to me, individual occurences are certainly not memorable. With the LRM 5 boats, attacks are going to deal about 3 damage on average not considering advanced armor types.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
01/08/14 08:49 AM
172.56.38.133
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Out side the Clans using FF armor other armor types are rarely ever seen. The logistical nightmare of trying to keep multiple armor types available is to much for most armies to want to deal with.
The best chance someone would be willing to deal with that is planetary defense units that will be stationed at one place for decades and what ever they are guarding has the budget to be paying for specialized armor types.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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ghostrider
01/08/14 01:28 PM
66.74.101.135
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I dont know why you are argueing with him about what resources are availible to his units in his campaign.
I will agree using harjel on everything he builds is a little overzealous, I do agree that having a unit die from a breach or bs crit hit is very annoying.
Thing is, if you dont like the use of it, but like the unit, pull the harjel out. Otherwise the contest of my units can beat your units doesnt belong here.
If there is an error, such as needing heat sinks, then fine. Tell him he made an error. One simple responce of canon rules works. Pounding the point makes this more of a hostile eviroment.
And be honest. How many people use the 2 on the to hit location to find out if a mech has a crit hit on it or not? Most people I know, avoid that possibility all together.
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Retry
01/08/14 07:25 PM
67.239.109.174
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Considering the alternate faction utilizing the Rooke uses HFF as it's primary armor for vehicles.(By now they just call it "Vehicle Armor"... Standard Armor has been completely phased out of the standard non-militia forces by now.) Therefore there is no problem with adding yet another HFF type vehicle to the ranks, and the re-introduction of standard armor might actually harm logistics in the long run, in addition to decreasing survival rate of the veteran crewmen on board.
HarJel makes displacement hulls not quite screwed when LRT 5 sub boats come in. The wonders of breach prevention...
I don't plan on making naval vehicles much smaller than 50 tons except on militia craft or hydrofoils.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
01/08/14 09:23 PM
172.56.14.19
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The thing is it is on EVERYTHING he builds that is water craft..
HarJar is extremely rare and the Clans are not going to wast any of it on a little value second line sea craft..
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
01/08/14 10:54 PM
67.239.109.174
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OH HELL YES!
"The Rooke is a small coastal patrol boat designed for moderate intensity conflicts, constructed by the non-canon alternate history faction Crossroads. If you fail to read the introduction paragraph to realize this I will reserve the right to point this out and then procede to laugh at the fact that you failed to read the introduction paragraph."
HA! HA! HA!!!
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