KamikazeJohnson
02/18/14 01:08 PM
50.72.218.68
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The long discussion about the Infantry Support 'Mech has brought up an interesting point for me...are Specialist 'Mechs really very valuable? I'm not talking about Long-Range Support (Archer) or Close-Range Brawler (Hunchback); I'm thinking more about the aforementioned Infantry Support 'Mech, or Urban Fighters, or perhaps Underwater or Night specialists.
Sure, they may significantly outclass anything else in their chosen environment, but if they suffer a comparative disadvantage in other situations, are they really worth having?
Suppose, for example, the FC produces a 'Mech designed specifically for Iffensive Urban operations. Do they field these units on other operations as well (since they have them) or hold them back and only use them for their soecialty (thereby maintaining a significant amount of unused resources)?
Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/18/14 09:15 PM
172.56.16.48
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For mechs I would say no they are not worth it because of the extreme cost of battlemechs.
Now on the other hand vehicles can be worth it if the vehicle is low enough in cost.
You just cant afford to have a major investment of a 5+ million C-Bills battlemech just sitting somewhere not being used.
Now as for a million C-Bill tank that might be worth letting it sit on the side lines hoping that it might be used in its limited useful job
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Karagin
02/18/14 10:53 PM
70.118.139.48
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There are plenty of purpose built mechs, like the Archer etc...they provide a role of fire support, BUT they can engage in direct combat if needed. And they will move and react to the tide of battle. Same with many of the other mechs like the Rifleman, a Triple A (AAA) mech who is there to provide protection against air attack or can double as a fire support mech if needed.
TRO3055 has many mechs built to deal with Battlearmor and given that this new (at the time) system was a shock and threat to the Inner Sphere, they reacted with a three fold attack on it, they built mechs to fight it, and they started making their own battle/power armor and they came up with vehicles to battle it as well.
Yet many of these can still fight other mechs and vehicles and aren't solely tied to one style or type of fighting, which the Infantry support mechs is solely tied to fighting at a pace that doesn't allow it to react to any change in the flow of battle, and the number one maxim is that NO plan survives contact with the other side.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/18/14 11:31 PM
172.56.16.48
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KamikazeJohnson stated that he was not counting long range support or close in scraper mechs. He was only asking about highly specialized mission mechs.
The only highly specialized mission mechs that I can really think of that would be worth the high C-Bills cost of a battlemech are behind the lines raiders where its mission is more to pull valuable troops off the front lines to have to deal with the raider than doing any real damage to the enemies combat support structure.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Karagin
02/18/14 11:36 PM
70.118.139.48
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I was pointing out Donkey that some roles are filled for a reason and others fall into the category of the line mechs, aka hence wise you don't see mechs purpose built to support infantry, and the ones built to fight battlearmor ended up getting refitted to other things aka fighting other mechs.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/18/14 11:47 PM
50.72.218.68
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Quote:
I was pointing out Donkey that some roles are filled for a reason and others fall into the category of the line mechs, aka hence wise you don't see mechs purpose built to support infantry, and the ones built to fight battlearmor ended up getting refitted to other things aka fighting other mechs.
Exactly...that's why I was excluding 'Mechs like the Archer, as Fire Support iscuseful in any battle, and Anti-BA is likely to be a competent all-purpose machine, but a City Fighter might be all but useless in an open-field contest (and Infantry Support is useless with no infantry).
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
02/18/14 11:57 PM
70.118.139.48
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So a Hunchback or Urbanmech is not going to be any good out side of the close in terrain setting?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
02/19/14 12:00 AM
24.30.128.72
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technically there are alot of 'specialty' mechs. The wolfhound was supposedly designed to counter the panther mech. The hitman mech as well as a few others are there.
One really important specialty mech made is the Raven. It was designed after ecm came out to carry that unit. This is one unit when it came out that would be worth having on the front lines, for the initial meeting. How do you set up your assault line if you don't know what is where. A few ravens would show holes in the enemy lines until you got within visual range.
The ostscout mech was built as well, and with the new upgrades is the only mech that is built without weapons.
Specialty mechs worth is based on what they are to do, and how they do it.
When you talk urban fighters, the urban mech comes to mind. You would think the mech useless in normal open field fights, but seems to be a good choice for city fighting, especially since it is effective and cheap.
And the best specialty mechs I have seen are the omnis. The ability to reconfigure a mech between battles is the best way to confuse an enemy. A few have built in components that would normally be on specialty mechs only like the hellcat/maddog having an advanced probe hard mount.
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Retry
02/19/14 12:33 AM
67.239.109.174
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Quite frankly mechs are so expensive they should either be a specialist mech or an omnimech. Else you take a vee.
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Karagin
02/19/14 06:48 AM
70.118.139.48
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Omnis allow for many things which makes them hard to stop when used right. They allow flexibility and mechs setup for roles of fire support and fire suppression, scouting and raiding all allow a similar flexibility at a cost of not being able to change the mechs into full fledged front line fighting mechs.
Vehicles and mechs work well together along with the infantry/BA and other support elements there, hence the idea of combined arms being important to winning battles.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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