Karagin
03/02/14 05:03 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Code: BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Fireball ALM-39D
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3055
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 20 tons
Chassis: Corean Model 334AA Endo Steel
Power Plant: 220 DAV XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 118.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 183.6 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Durallex Nova Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 Medium Laser
1 Small Laser
1 Streak SRM 2
Manufacturer: Corean Enterprises
Location: New Avalon
Communications System: Lynx-Shur
Targeting & Tracking System: Corean B-Tech
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Fireball ALM-39D
Mass: 20 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 33 pts Endo Steel 14 1.00
(Endo Steel Loc: 1 LA, 1 RA, 4 LT, 4 RT, 2 CT, 1 LL, 1 RL)
Engine: 220 XL Fusion 12 5.00
Walking MP: 11
Running MP: 17
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 2 .00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 LL, 1 RL)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 .00
Armor Factor: 69 pts Ferro-Fibrous 14 4.00
(Armor Crit Loc: 1 HD, 4 LA, 3 RA, 3 LT, 3 RT)
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 6 8
Center Torso (Rear): 4
L/R Side Torso: 5 7/7
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 3/3
L/R Arm: 3 6/6
L/R Leg: 4 8/8
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Medium Laser RT 3 1 1.00
1 Small Laser RT 1 1 .50
1 Streak SRM 2 LT 2 50 2 2.50
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 6 71 20.00
Crits & Tons Left: 7 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 3,190,540 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 550 (old BV = 457)
Cost per BV2: 5,800.98
Weapon Value: 164 / 149 (Ratio = .30 / .27)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 8; MRDmg = 1; LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2: MP: 11, Armor/Structure: 2/1
Damage PB/M/L: 2/1/-, Overheat: 0
Class: ML; Point Value: 6
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/02/14 05:06 PM
67.239.109.174
|
Let's see... you have an XL engine and SHSs in use in tandem.
Seems like a large waste of resources.
|
Karagin
03/02/14 05:11 PM
70.118.139.48
|
I don't have anything, this is a STANDARD BOOK MECH, modified by me. The heat build up doesn't warrant DHS, so yes it has has SHS, not everything needs DHS so really NO its' not a large waste of resources, again it's not about min/maxing things here Retry. Not all of us play that way or want to be in games like that.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/02/14 05:17 PM
67.239.109.174
|
Then it's not a standard book mech if it's modified, now is it.
You say that until you meet a circumstance that doesn't take place inside a vacuum. Including but not limited to:
Really hot environments
Inferno SRM hits
Engine crits. While with DHS you could still fall back or keep fighting with the design if you are unlucky enough to get hit twice. But with these standard 10 SHS instead you will slowly roast your pilot until he either shuts down his mech or fries to death.
|
Karagin
03/02/14 05:25 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Rare events with the infernos, as for engine hits they are going to ruin the day for a mech with DHS so that is not a point to even worry about.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
03/02/14 05:26 PM
70.118.139.48
|
If you can build one better Retry then post your ideas.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/02/14 05:33 PM
67.239.109.174
|
Except instead of engine hits being a death sentence with SHS only it becomes a thorn in your side which you can simply trot back to base to repair it.
DHS. Problems solved.
|
Karagin
03/02/14 05:41 PM
70.118.139.48
|
The mech does not need DHS, there never was an issue with it's heat to start with.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/02/14 05:45 PM
67.239.109.174
|
DHS will allow this Fireball to operate comfortably in very hot environments and still function with 2 engine crits. With 2 engine crits you generate 10 heat just by standing still. Which will be a problem, or so the pilot frying would be led to believe.
On top of that 2 DHS in the left and right torsos would make a great crit sink that could prevent a crit to the engine in the first place.
|
Karagin
03/02/14 06:12 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Again IF you can do better, then post your version.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/02/14 06:18 PM
67.239.109.174
|
I'm not posting a version that the only change is DHS.
|
Karagin
03/02/14 06:21 PM
70.118.139.48
|
You seem to think all mechs should have every single thing on them at the highest tech level, why is this? Even if they don't need the items, you design style is not logical so could you please fill us in why you think it's okay to drive up the cost just because you want the highest tech available when the normal tech items do the job without going overboard.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
03/02/14 06:24 PM
70.118.139.48
|
All you offered for comments is it needs (even though it doesn't) DHS. I don't see the need for DHS both from a cost position or from a need for the mech's current heat output. Oversinking a mech for just in case events is both pointless and a waste of resources.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/02/14 06:37 PM
67.239.109.174
|
You don't seem to see my arguements for it at all either. A bit of a case of logical nearsightedness, it would appear.
Same with your claim of "just in case" events being a waste of resources. It's nearsighted.
|
Karagin
03/02/14 06:39 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Again I was not going for min/max building like you are suggesting. If you look at the changes I have made, I am not going crazy with the tech, simple easy upgrades not shovel everything you can into just because you can attitude.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 06:40 PM
24.30.128.72
|
If I recall, they supposedly set the internal runnings of a mech to match extreme temperatures for planets they will be on, ie fire less often on a hot world. I am not sure if that was fluff in one of the books or in a novel.
But it would make sense.
Granted it would bring down the costs of dhs if they were used on everything they could, but give the price of them as well as a lack of need in the normal range of combat, it is not necesary. If you want them, then order the mech with them.
|
Retry
03/02/14 06:41 PM
67.239.109.174
|
Assuming DHS wouldn't be a simple easy upgrade.
|
Karagin
03/02/14 06:49 PM
70.118.139.48
|
You make it sounds as if they are.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/02/14 06:52 PM
67.239.109.174
|
Seeing as this is no omnimech, the weapon swap couldn't be quite so easy to do either as well.
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 06:56 PM
24.30.128.72
|
even with omnis, you can't swap dhs for shs or the other way around. But you control your playing models, so if you want dhs, use dhs.
|
Retry
03/02/14 07:46 PM
67.239.109.174
|
A waste of resources would be using this mech without the DHS as at least a crit sink. It'd be a pointless and nonsensical way to lose your mech all tricked out with all these advanced engines and endo-steel which needs to be made in an orbital factory. And the pilot is a bonus.
But apparently my Nephilidae, whose production uses equipment that almost no other mechs use and so would not detract production in other areas, is an even bigger waste.
|
Karagin
03/02/14 07:49 PM
70.118.139.48
|
You have a different design outlook then many of us, so to you it dose seem that way to, but to many of us it does not.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Retry
03/02/14 07:53 PM
67.239.109.174
|
Thus far "to many of us" has been you and only you.
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 07:58 PM
24.30.128.72
|
Any production detracts from other areas.
Though if you are so worried about losing units, a complete orbital defense with fighters and assault dropships with warship support would be a better way to go. If they can't reach the factories, they can't destroy them.
Now the mech produces 8 heat firing everything and running.
Why do you need double heat sinks?
The possible engine hits and hot planets are a possible. Without those problems, this is a cold mech.
If you are concerned about overheating then you will never use a normal marauder, since just using the ppcs overheats it. Same with the normal warhammer.
If you start running hot, you just stop firing everthing you got.
And the small laser wouldn't be firing every round. Same with the streaks.
as for crit sinks.. That is just getting rediculous. Just add in an mg in as many spots as you can without any ammo for it.
|
Cray
03/02/14 08:03 PM
71.47.122.85
|
Quote:
The heat build up doesn't warrant DHS, so yes it has has SHS, not everything needs DHS so really NO its' not a large waste of resources
I agree. Not everything subsystem merits the latest cutting edge. It's the story of my current job, which is designing gee-whiz exploding stealthy things to be hung under the wings of US airplanes. (This is so much better than watching steel panels corrode in salt fog chambers, like my last job.) There are times where you need the latest and greatest materials and systems, and you use them. You use them with reservation, and worry, and lengthy justifications for trying out new technology.
In any other time, you avoid the new stuff like the plague. The running joke is that no one realizes there's a materials department because all the mechanical and aerospace engineers only specify 6061-T6 aluminum on the blueprints, just like their grandparents did. (Getting a new material to be acceptable for aircraft construction a simple application usually requires several million dollars of testing.)
Single strength heat sinks are common, proven, well-known, available, and much more numerous than DHS (you don't see DHS on combat vehicles). When the situation doesn't call for a fancy system, you don't use it. This Fireball variant can only generate 6 heat from its weapons, leaving it 4 reserve heat capacity for movement, engine damage, and external heat. .
I'd argue differently on a heavy or assault 'Mech, but by the time this Fireball needs that heat capacity, it'll probably be dead since it's so fragile.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 08:07 PM
24.30.128.72
|
you don't see double sinks on vehicles because they are not allow. That was pointed out to me when I had forgot this point.
The wasting of resources, is why you don't use xl engines, but yet you will throw double heat sinks on everything you can. This is one of the reasons I asked about the tech in your crossroads units. You are trying to use the best of both.
Either you use innersphere tech or clan tech.
|
Retry
03/02/14 08:08 PM
67.239.109.174
|
A new mech going into production that uses a specific engine or chassis will detract much more so into the production of another mech that uses such equipment than a mech that uses completely different equipment.
I believe it is why the P-38 Lightning kept the Allisons, as it was difficult enough to keep the P-51 Merlins in stock.
And with those problems, which in this case you could adress very very very easily, it is a pilot sauna. The basic marauder is okayish, but it seems specialized for cold climates and would especially suck on hot planets.
Crit sinks is not a ridiculous concept. One lost DHS is a lot better than a lost engine due to battle damage.
(Though now that I think about it that could fit on the chassis)
|
KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 08:09 PM
50.72.218.68
|
I'm usually in favour of using DHS whenever possible, although I have made a few Light designs that ran short of crit space. The price difference is small, there's no trade-off as long as space is available, and there's tremendous value in the event of engine hits. That said, not using them when the 'Mech generates less than 10 heat under normal conditions makes in-universe sense, particularly if the unit is set as Star League-Era or in the early days of recovered Star League tech, where DHS are not an item had in abundance. By 3070 or so, there's really no reason other than crit space not to use them.
I would probably have put them on this design "just because", but they're certainly not essential.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
|
ghostrider
03/02/14 08:16 PM
24.30.128.72
|
so then all your mechs are omni mechs? the use of pods use the same weapons on everything.
Now kj. the year of this mech is 3055. If it was past 3070, I would agree with the thought, but still say if it doesn't need them, why use them?
Also, you must remember, the innersphere uses their parts on mechs built in there area. A medium laser might have a five bolt bracket in the fedsuns area, but only use 3 hole bracket in the combine. Yes the mech is fedcom, but even with that, they would use what is availible to the area.
|
Retry
03/02/14 08:18 PM
67.239.109.174
|
Quote:
The wasting of resources, is why you don't use xl engines, but yet you will throw double heat sinks on everything you can. This is one of the reasons I asked about the tech in your crossroads units. You are trying to use the best of both.
Either you use innersphere tech or clan tech.
The arguement would work if this faction was of classic canon battletech. But it's not.
|